Which rimfire to practice fundamentals

[Unity]

Hey All,

I've always been a bit hesitant/intimidated to post on this forum, hopefully you can all bear with me through my first post

I know this sort of question has been asked a million times but...

Some time ago I had purchased my first rifle(Remington 700p[.308]). I took it out to the range a few times, had a blast just getting it zeroed, then haven't really been out since. Ammo just cost too much for me to regularly take it out!

I'm now thinking of picking up a rimfire to simply practice shooting fundamentals. Seeing how I'm practically brand new to shooting, I figure spending my time with a nice rimfire will save me some money while still helping me improve.

However, I do have a few questions..

1) Is .22lr a sufficient caliber to practice with?

By that I mean, does .22lr shoot accurately/consistently enough to gauge if I am applying proper shooting techniques? Will shooting with a .22lr allow me to 'mimic' what I should be doing with my Remington? Or, is the .17hmr something I should look into? I'm not really looking to go varmint hunting or plinking..just practicing fundamentals.

2) I'm stuck between a Marlin XT-22/17, Savage MkII/93R17, and the CZ 452/455.. anybody have any input/other suggestions?


I've seen lots of "which rimfire" and ".22 vs .17" topics, but most of them get into which is best for hunting or whats cheap for plinking...

Thank you in advanced for anybody that takes the time to read through my post!

-Matt

 

[paraman1]

Re: Which rimfire to practice fundamentals

Hell Yes a .22 is more than adequate . Spend a few bucks more on decent ammo (its still cheaper than your rimfire by a longshot) and shoot from 50-200 yards . The fundamentals will still yield better results than piss poor form and trigger control .


I have no experience with any of your firearm choices but I believe the Savage has an adjustable trigger and if so it would be my choice over all the others .

 

[Linkless]

Re: Which rimfire to practice fundamentals

I am very happy with my Savage Mark II TR (check the thread on here for fixing the trigger pull weight). I took it out to 500 meters and was able to hit a 30" circle about 25% of the time. I'd say it's certainly good enough for training and a lot of fun. I just picked up a CZ452 Super Lux and will take it out tomorrow. I like the idea of shooting open sights since I really haven't done it much in the past.

 

[Dylan in AZ]

Re: Which rimfire to practice fundamentals

Matt,

Very nice first post, and a very warm welcome to the forums. It's late where I’m at so I'm going to be lazy and just quote your questions as I go through. I've been known to get carried away when I type though, so sit back and get comfortable

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1) Is .22lr a sufficient caliber to practice with?

By that I mean, does .22lr shoot accurately/consistently enough to gauge if I am applying proper shooting techniques? Will shooting with a .22lr allow me to 'mimic' what I should be doing with my Remington? Or, is the .17hmr something I should look into? I'm not really looking to go varmint hunting or plinking..just practicing fundamentals.</div></div>
22lr is probably the best practice round in existence. Most any rimfire rifle has the capability to be very accurate with the right ammo. Due to the slower projectile, it takes a slight bit longer to exit the muzzle of the rifle. Because of this, fundamentals need to be properly applied to get the most out of your shooting. Rimfire will teach you so much as a beginner, if you're willing to learn and cope with the occasional frustration. Due to the cost and limited amount of available ammo for the .17's, I would suggest sticking with the good old 22lr. If you should want to hunt small game, you can easily do it still. But, the major advantage to the 22lr, is that you have a plethora of ammo available, and a good percentage of it is match ammo.

I whole heartedly believe that rimfire is the best training <span style="text-decoration: underline">aid</span> out there. Notice I underlined <span style="font-style: italic">aid</span> though; this is because rimfire IS NOT a replacement for centerfire practice, it's just an alternative to the expense of centerfire all the time. You should shoot as much as possible, but make sure you're still shooting that 308 on regular occasion so that you know you can still drive it right. As you stated you're a new shooter, I feel you've made a very good decision to look into rimfire for a more "bang for your buck" option. You've come to the correct place my friend

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2) I'm stuck between a Marlin XT-22/17, Savage MkII/93R17, and the CZ 452/455.. anybody have any input/other suggestions?


I've seen lots of "which rimfire" and ".22 vs .17" topics, but most of them get into which is best for hunting or what’s cheap for plinking...</div></div>
I have not had the chance to play around with any of the Marlin rimfires, but, from what I have read on them, they are a good comparison to the Savage line. Although, if I had the option of one or the other, based entirely on what I have read from fellow 'Hide members reviews, I would still choose the Savage over the Marlin. There's probably nothing wrong with the Marlins, but I know my own Savage really well, and I am more than happy with what I got for the price I paid.

So, that leaves the CZ's vs. the Savages, one of my favorite debates. If you're restricted by a budget, I say Savage takes the cake. For some models at least. They are both incredibly accurate rifles on average. I read of <span style="font-style: italic">few</span> lemons ever popping up. Either way you go, you probably won't be dissatisfied. Now, I do want to say that for the price I paid for my Savage, I could have had a CZ 452 Varmint. And if I could do it all over again, I think I would get the CZ. Again, I can't complain about my MkII (besides that freaking weak ass excuse for bottom metal, which can be replaced for 25-32 bucks depending on the mfg you buy from) at all. I can say that it took about 500 rounds before I noticed the action really breaking in, but then I had the opportunity to feel a "new" CZ action that made mine feel like crap. It was very smooth, and just felt nicer by miles. Some people don't feel the same, this is my <span style="text-decoration: underline">opinion</span>, YMMV. But for the most part, it seems that people who have handled both rifles are in agreeance that the CZ's are of better quality. Again, some will disagree with this. If you can, get your hands on all three and make your decision off of that.

As far as the triggers go, I love the accu-trigger in my Savage. I'm a very non-picky shooter though. With a cheap upgrade kit for the CZ offered by Brooks or YoDave, you can have a pretty nice trigger on the cheap side. As always, a little elbow grease goes a long way. You can usually make these rifles shine with just a few hours work. The CZ's have been called the poor man's Anschutz many times, I feel this statement is very accurate. Although, I would rather have an Annie, budget permitting

The last thing I want to mention, is that different ammo will shoot differently in your gun. You would be absolutely amazed at the difference a change in ammo will make through your gun when you get it. I don't know if I'm being redundant by saying this, for I don't know if you already know what i'm talking about. But ammo testing is by far my favorite part of owning and shooting a rimfire rifle. There are just so many options out there to try out, and finding the right ones for different applications is so much fun. And it's very relieving to get to the point where you can comfortably say you know your rifle well.

If you ever have any questions don't be hesitant to ask them. It's my belief that one of the two things that are dumber than a stupid question is the moron who didn't ask it. The other one is a shooter unwilling to help out a fellow shooter.

Best Regards,
-Dylan

 

[Radar 1]

Re: Which rimfire to practice fundamentals

I have the Marlin XT-22, bought the first one I saw. Wonderful rifle for under $200. Shoots nice little clovers @ 50 yards off bags. Rear iron sight is flimsy, but I assume a scope is in order for your shooting. You'll need Weaver #12 bases and the rings of your choice-I prefer Burris Zee or Weaver Grand Slam steel rings.
I'd stay with .22 just for the cost of ammo over the .17. If you were going to hunt with it I'd go .22WMR because of greater variety and cost of ammo.
Best of luck with your choice!

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: Which rimfire to practice fundamentals

Matt,

I purchased a CZ455 American in 22WMR and CZ452 American in 22LR for training and love both. The 22LR is more accurate than the WMR but, both are very accurate for "out of the box" rifles. I threaded the WMR 1/2x28 after cutting it to 16" and run a Gemtech on it, will do the same to the 452 at some point but I probably wont cut it to 16". I was so impressed with these rifles I ordered a third CZ but in the 452 Varmint. 10 shot MOA groups at 100 has been fairly easy with the 452 and 200 yards with the WMR is a piece of cake. The 22LR shoots the Wolf Match the best and the WMR likes the CCI Maxi-Mags. Get a good Bipod, rear bag and scope and your set. Good luck.

 

[Bradu]

Re: Which rimfire to practice fundamentals

I bought a savage 17hmr for this purpose, I shot yesterday for the first time in almost ten years and figured out that I can't shoot like I use to.

 

[ThrottleJ]

Re: Which rimfire to practice fundamentals

I bought a mil dot scope with .1 mil adjustments for my .17 and am using it for long range practice. Works great and is a ton of fun!

 

[CaptainH]

Re: Which rimfire to practice fundamentals

I purchased a CZ 455 for just the purpose of practicing various shooting positions in prep for my first elk hunt this fall. The rifle is plenty accurate enough at 100 yards to hit a 6" plate if I do my job. It also comes equipped with studs for sling mounting. A small vortex scope and I am in business. The length and balance are a resonable approximation of my TC venture. Different ammo does make a difference. I have a 4 MOA difference between wolf and CCI Blazer at 100. I did a trigger job following one of the threads on the forum and it made a world of difference. I usually shoot a box of 22 followed by 5 300 Win Mag. Happy hunting.

 

[Kapnkrunch]

Re: Which rimfire to practice fundamentals

I'd stick with the CZ or Savage over the Marlins, Marlin has some bad QC issues right now and I have a hard time trusting them.

From Savage I would take a look at the MKII FV-SR,TR or TRR-SR, The FV-SR is a decent gun it just needs a stock upgrade out of the box Savage should be ashamed of the stock it ships with.

From CZ it's hard to go wrong with any of them they are great rifles out of the box, My only issue with them in the LOP is a little on the short side for my 6'3 frame.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: Which rimfire to practice fundamentals

CZ and here is why:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2390014#Post2390014
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2596157#Post2596157

Pay particular attention to the equipment lists in each match report.

 

[JR_V]

Re: Which rimfire to practice fundamentals

Id go CZ any day over the Savage. Much smoother action and a bit more refined rifle overall. I cant stand running the bolt of a Savage, especially after shooting my Sako Quads.

 

[Radar360]

Re: Which rimfire to practice fundamentals

22LR is a great way to learn fundamentals and it's just a whole lot of fun to shoot. Ammo is abundant and reasonable.

I learned from a little known rifle chambered in 22LR. Ever heard of a Sears Revelation? Somewhere I heard that they are/were actually made by Mossberg. I really don't know.

Anyway. Yes, go for it! Whichever cal. you choose is really fine. As far as which rifle, I'm not personnally familiar with the models you've indicated and I haven't shot 22's in a while, but I'm sure the advise provided above is good - folks in the hide are happy to help.

 

[RicosRevenge]

Re: Which rimfire to practice fundamentals

I think you are well on your way and you seem to have already done quite a bit of homework. Not much to add based on responses from other "regulars" here... so decide, buy and go shoot!

Welcome to the Hide.

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

Re: Which rimfire to practice fundamentals

if you have the extra cash, go with the CZ. in all fairness, although the marlins are reported to have some QC issues, there hasn't been a decent range report that i've found yet or those QC issues are so bad that it's actually ruining accuraccy. since the new XT's are basically a 925, and the 925 and older 25 model (not much differences throughout the three series other than new plastic stock and adjustable trigger) i've put a model 25 against my sproter barreled mkii f, the marlin whooped it at 50 and 100 yards with different ammos, and came pretty darn close to the heavy barreled mkii bv. I'm only assuming the XT heavy barreled ones are going to surpass the heavy barreled mkiis also.

but there's nothing wrong with the savage mkiis either.

whatever you choose in rifle manufacturer, i'd stay with the .22lr

1. the .17 is so flat you are basically defeating the purpose of the trainer. not much adjusting as compared to the arch of the .22lr, so you'll have less computations and educated guestimates to make.

2. good match ammo is actually cheaper than .17 or .22 mag ammo, and the right rifle / ammo combo is quite an accurate, consistant paper puncher. mostly feeding the rifle the good stuff or something that it likes takes care of the "was that me or a flyer" question - most of the time.

3. you can have more QUALITY trigger time using #1 and #2 at shorter distances, and quitier too for short runs out to the woods behind the development for some trigger time - so yes it is accurate enough to use for good practice techniques....otherwise we probably wouldn't be having this rimfire section.

4. better offering of .22lr ammo as your demands on the rifle fluctuate.