Rifle Scopes Which Scope?

[deersniper]

Op. Buy this and a SWFA 3-15 and spend the rest on ammo and barrels

Oh and buy the online training here. And dry fire a lot.

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/cabelas-sale.6947758/

 

[deersniper]

 

[deersniper]

 

[Fig]

That’s a low budget setup that would run imo.

 

[Jim C]

Saw the APO snipershide edition up close in Frank's class, if this was a year ago I would have gone that way instead of the RPR.

It has been great, but the APO SHE takes care of all the upgrades you would need, and still very reasonable. The viper pst 5x25 is more than enough scope for what you outlined out past 1k. 18x is perfect for targets and having fov, but 25x on paper for groups is very nice. Available now for less than $800 new though hide suppliers.

Thanks a lot for the input. Appreciate it! -jim

 

[Jim C]

There are a ton of good options now for quality rifles and optics. Many available here on the PX for reduced price just make sure to buy quality gear from reputable smiths/manufacturers.

Your thread is specifically about scopes so I'll address that first. I would spend more on a good scope then on the rifle. Guys shoot to 1000 yards with 10x optics so you can make just about anything work, but make life easy on yourself and success is that much faster. Standard 5-25 scopes are very popular and easy to find. You could get it done with a 3-15 as well. Personally not a big fan of Vortex but they do very well. As mentioned you can do Burris, Bushnell, Sig, Athlon, and don't forget the Nightforce SHV. Don't get overly obsessed with the glass as that will bust your budget in a real hurry. Find a good useable reticle and a scope with a good reputation for reliable turret adjustment. I would forego the Leopold stuff in your price range, there is no reason to go back to the 1980s when we have better options for less money with current tech.

The Bergara and RPR are great options and very popular as well. I would consider them heavily due to the aftermarket support and the price of replacement barrels is ridiculously low. Obviously guys are very successful with anything from Tikkas to Savage and upgraded Rem 700s . You need to go get your hands on a few and see what you like and what fits you well. Some guys love stocks and others love chassis systems. Something in a Rem 700 footprint is going to give you the most options in the future.

This isn't a one and done, once you start shooting you're going to be back here figuring out the details so get it put together, get some rounds downrange and report back!

Thanks for the advice. Just to address the budget comments above, if I go with the Bergara, I can walk out of my local store with it for $1000. I was figuring up to $1500 for the scope, leaving up to $500 for rings and mount. I'd like to stay under my $3k max, but I also don't want to settle for the sake of a couple hundred bucks - meaning I can break my $3k ceiling if I have to, but not by a lot. Thx. -jim

 

[Spblademaker]

Badger mount and seekins rail will still keep you under $500, easily. Put that towards a quality bipod and you’re golden.

 

[Long Range 338]

Thanks for the advice. Just to address the budget comments above, if I go with the Bergara, I can walk out of my local store with it for $1000. I was figuring up to $1500 for the scope, leaving up to $500 for rings and mount. I'd like to stay under my $3k max, but I also don't want to settle for the sake of a couple hundred bucks - meaning I can break my $3k ceiling if I have to, but not by a lot. Thx. -jim

Rings aren't that big of a deal, Seekins and ARC are under $200 bucks. Get the rifle you want and just make sure it fits you. You can get a good piece of glass for $1,500 and even better here used.

 

[deersniper]

You can find rings/mounts cheap. Stick with name brand like badger Nightforce seekins and you will be fine.
If you get a chassis rifle and can use a one piece mount you can find badger unimounts for $1-120

You don't need a spuhr.

 

[Jim C]

Tikka is the step up from entry level. I know one builder who buys Tikka, throws the stock and barrel away, and puts a chassis on it plus his hand lapped barrel. Fully upgrade able except you can’t put a heavy contour barrel on it.

I just don’t see how the OP can stay on budget buying a Bergara or a Tikka. I’d avoid a used rifle in the price range in creedmoor, because you never know for sure how many rounds have gone down the barrel, and creedmoor barrels are only good for about 2k rounds, and usually less. I’d also avoid buying a used scope in that price range. Tracking issues, though rare, are more common in the lower end scopes, and the bad ones tend to get sold on to the unsuspecting. A new RPR and a new Vortex get it done on budget with good scope rings and bipod. I just don’t know how else to get there on the OPs budget.

I can get the Bergara locally for less than $1000. That leaves up to $2k for the scope and mounts. You feel that's not enough? Thx. -jim

 

[Jim C]

I found a Tikka in a Mcmillian with cdi for very close $ so went Tikka vs Bergara.
I am running a bushnell LRHS 3-12 on it.
A hair over 2k all in with sling and bipod, LRHS are cheaper now so easy to save more $.

Lots of great options beyond if you are willing to buy used.
There was just a Vortex PST II 5-25 for $825 on the PX.

I would choose several of the optics in that price range before a Leupold.
Thats from a guy who had some mk4 scopes early on when I started, lost $ in resale, and then bought what i wanted within my own budget (3 kids.....)

Thanks for the input. Appreciate it. -jim

 

[Jim C]

You can find rings/mounts cheap. Stick with name brand like badger Nightforce seekins and you will be fine.
If you get a chassis rifle and can use a one piece mount you can find badger unimounts for $1-120

You don't need a spuhr.

Thanks. Appreciate your advice. -jim

 

[Jim C]

Rings aren't that big of a deal, Seekins and ARC are under $200 bucks. Get the rifle you want and just make sure it fits you. You can get a good piece of glass for $1,500 and even better here used.

Thanks. -jim

 

[pineoak]

+1 on that APO for that price. Very nice.

 

[pewpewfever]

I can get the Bergara locally for less than $1000. That leaves up to $2k for the scope and mounts. You feel that's not enough? Thx. -jim

What kind of Bergara are you getting for less than $1000? I thought the competition models start around $1700.

 

[Jim C]

I have a threaded 20" 700 LTR in magpul stock. Very accurate low round count $750. .308 so will get you to 1000. You don't want a 6.5 to learn on unless you like spending money on barre replacement

Thanks. But from what I've been reading I thought the 6.5 CM was a better option - flatter with less kick? Thx. -jim

Op. Buy this and a SWFA 3-15 and spend the rest on ammo and barrels

Oh and buy the online training here. And dry fire a lot.

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/cabelas-sale.6947758/

Thanks so much. -jim

 

[Jim C]

Badger mount and seekins rail will still keep you under $500, easily. Put that towards a quality bipod and you’re golden.

Thanks! -jim

 

[Jim C]

What kind of Bergara are you getting for less than $1000? I thought the competition models start around $1700.

Looking at the Bergara B-14 HMR.. I can get it for $950 local. -jim

 

[powdahound76]

You are welcome Jim. I am far from expert, though over the years I have thrown a fair bit of money at shooting rifles and scopes. Have shot enough rifles and rounds to know at least 3 things.
One, training and practice count for a lot. two, Glass is important. three, Don't buy cheap crap and expect it to work.

6.5 vs .308 on kick is a wash to me. Perhaps with breaks and stuff it's different? Im a little guy (5'7" and 160 as I am getting fat) but never noticed the difference even at 150 which is my regular weight. Both in light hunters at 7.5 lbs or 15 lb rigs.

Either one will get you shooting and addicted as this stuff is a lot of fun. Also contemplate some sort of more accurate .22 for practice. I run a Savage MK II as life with kid, school, and housing in Denver is friggin pricey. I shoot my 22 way more. probably 20/1 ratio of rounds down range

 

[pewpewfever]

Looking at the Bergara B-14 HMR.. I can get it for $950 local. -jim

I guess I didn’t consider that one really a match rifle because if the thread in here about it being a real compromise between match and hunting. One guy said “if your primary use is shooting LR matches, go with the BMP. It sports a 24" barrel, and a barrel nut so you can change it if youd like without any trouble or having to change stocks/chassis.” I also think the weight is too low, at least for me. For matches, I like a 20 lb rifle, not a rifle that weighs in at under 10 pounds.

 

[Georgedubya]

There’s a lot of good info advice so far.

My $.02

The vortex PST Gen 2 would be my choice with your budget. They are FFP scopes and have built in zero stops. I would recommend the MiL version. Mil is more common in the precision rifle world.

The Bergera is a solid choice as well. The only other rifle I would consider in your budget would be a Tikka.

Don’t skimp on mounts for your chosen optic. A scope base with 20moa of forward cant built in is a good choice. As well as high quality rings.

After that spend as much time shooting and working on fundamentals as you possibly can!

I’d add a suggestion of the Tikka T3x Tac A1. And agree re Vortex in this price range. Another decent option is the Bushnell HDMR 2.

 

[Jim C]

I guess I didn’t consider that one really a match rifle because if the thread in here about it being a real compromise between match and hunting. One guy said “if your primary use is shooting LR matches, go with the BMP. It sports a 24" barrel, and a barrel nut so you can change it if youd like without any trouble or having to change stocks/chassis.” I also think the weight is too low, at least for me. For matches, I like a 20 lb rifle, not a rifle that weighs in at under 10 pounds.

Yeah, I'm looking at the HMR cause all the reviews I've read indicate it's really accurate, and I liked the feel. I haven't ruled out the BMP instead, but if I go with the BMP I have a lot less to invest in a scope. I wish money wasn't a constraint, but unfortunately it's a reality of my life. Appreciate your input. -jim

 

[Jim C]

I’d add a suggestion of the Tikka T3x Tac A1. And agree re Vortex in this price range. Another decent option is the Bushnell HDMR 2.

Thanks! -jim

 

[stello1001]

Go Howa 1500 HCR or go Tikka T3 Tac A1. I shoot a howa 1500 HCR in 6.5 creed and it is dead nuts accurate even with cheap ammo. Definitely a better option than a Remington 700 as those 700s are quite the risk when talking about accuracy and quality. With a howa or Tikka you can rest assured you will get a definite shooter. Either one of those options will still leave enough for glass and rings.

Glass wise, you can pick up a tango6 3-18 For about 880 bucks right now on optics planet and also get a free 250dlr gift certificate. Then you use that certificate to purchase rings. By the way, I also own a tango6 but the 4-24 model and really like it. The glass is pretty clear and has great features.

Good luck!

 

[Jim C]

Go Howa 1500 HCR or go Tikka T3 Tac A1. I shoot a howa 1500 HCR in 6.5 creed and it is dead nuts accurate even with cheap ammo. Definitely a better option than a Remington 700 as those 700s are quite the risk when talking about accuracy and quality. With a howa or Tikka you can rest assured you will get a definite shooter. Either one of those options will still leave enough for glass and rings.

Glass wise, you can pick up a tango6 3-18 For about 880 bucks right now on optics planet and also get a free 250dlr gift certificate. Then you use that certificate to purchase rings. By the way, I also own a tango6 but the 4-24 model and really like it. The glass is pretty clear and has great features.

Good luck!

Thanks a lot! -jim

 

[pewpewfever]

One last thing, you could luck out seeking advice and buying used from locals. If you haven’t joined the Facebook group for the south texas precision rifle club, and sought advice there, I’d say that’s a viable next step. You can’t sell firearms openly on Facebook, but if you invite messages then that can work. Here’s the link. I know it says “knitting club,” but that’s south texas for you. Great people.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/SoTexPrecisionRifle/

 

[stello1001]

Holy fuck, a fellow RGVer on the hide. Do you know of anywhere in the valley to shoot at longer ranges? I'm originally from Roma by the way...

 

[Jim C]

One last thing, you could luck out seeking advice and buying used from locals. If you haven’t joined the Facebook group for the south texas precision rifle club, and sought advice there, I’d say that’s a viable next step. You can’t sell firearms openly on Facebook, but if you invite messages then that can work. Here’s the link. I know it says “knitting club,” but that’s south texas for you. Great people.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/SoTexPrecisionRifle/

I'll do that. Thanks. -jim

 

[Jim C]

Holy fuck, a fellow RGVer on the hide. Do you know of anywhere in the valley to shoot at longer ranges? I'm originally from Roma by the way...

Hey Neighbor! I'm not too familiar with the local ranges. So far, I shoot almost exclusively at my community range - it has quite a few handgun options, and for rifles it accommodates shotguns and target shooting at 25yd, 50yd, 100yd and 300yd. I shoot mostly handgun, but do also shoot my Ruger 10/22 at 100 yards. I guess I thought Coyote Arms could accommodate longer distances, and there's a range in Mercedes that has rifle competitions - the name escapes me offhand, but some of my friends participate. Haven't looked too seriously yet, figuring initially I'd be shooting up to 300yd at my home range. But I'd start there.

 

[stello1001]

Hey Neighbor! I'm not too familiar with the local ranges. So far, I shoot almost exclusively at my community range - it has quite a few handgun options, and for rifles it accommodates shotguns and target shooting at 25yd, 50yd, 100yd and 300yd. I shoot mostly handgun, but do also shoot my Ruger 10/22 at 100 yards. I guess I thought Coyote Arms could accommodate longer distances, and there's a range in Mercedes that has rifle competitions - the name escapes me offhand, but some of my friends participate. Haven't looked too seriously yet, figuring initially I'd be shooting up to 300yd at my home range. But I'd start there.

That's not bad at all. Never knew the valley had anything to offer over 100 yards. I guess I also never really looked much into it. I was just in McAllen yesterday now on my way to corpus. Anyhow, let us know what you decide on...

 

[Jim C]

I was asked to report on what I decided. After much research and agonizing, I decided ...... to stretch my budget. lol That being the case, for a rifle I've decided to get the Bergara HMR Pro. For a scope I've decided om the Vortex Razor Gen II 4.5-27x 56 FFP.

I know I need to get rings as well. If there are any other essentials I'll need to get started, I'd appreciate any suggestions you have.

Thanks for all the input,
-jim

 

[GIXXER2000]

I just got one mounted and zeroed for a friend and am impressed on both price and quality of the glass and how it handled. heavy mirage.I would say spend the money and get a good 1 piece mount and scope lens caps.

 

[JBattles]

Jim - Nice choice - I also went with the Bergara HMR Pro. You will not be disappointed - the trigger upgrade is awesome, bolt gas shield, ceracote, and the darker color are worth the upgrade to me.

Check out the Area 419 Performance Pack - these guys make a great product.

Performance Package for Bergara Rifles

NEW from Area 419 – Performance Packages for your Precision Rifles. The Bergara package includes: 1 – 6.5mm or 30 Caliber Hellfire Self-Timing Muzzle Brake 1 – 20MOA Short Action ARC Cut Improved Scope Base 1 – Improved Bipod Rail This is the easiest way to outfit your new Bergara and have it...

www.area419.com

Seekins rings are awesome - 1" high should work.

Vortex low pro bubble level is a nice addition too.

check out the Vortex defender flip caps for your scope - they are well made and easy to use.

I went with a Trijicon Accupower 4.5-30x56 rather than the Vortex Razor, but almost went that route too.

 

[Schw15]

Bergara is a great factory rifle that shoot lights out. I have one and it keeps up with my customs. Glass with your total budget I really liked the midas tac for what it is and for 1000 yards

 

[Jim C]

Jim - Nice choice - I also went with the Bergara HMR Pro. You will not be disappointed - the trigger upgrade is awesome, bolt gas shield, ceracote, and the darker color are worth the upgrade to me.

Check out the Area 419 Performance Pack - these guys make a great product.

Performance Package for Bergara Rifles

NEW from Area 419 – Performance Packages for your Precision Rifles. The Bergara package includes: 1 – 6.5mm or 30 Caliber Hellfire Self-Timing Muzzle Brake 1 – 20MOA Short Action ARC Cut Improved Scope Base 1 – Improved Bipod Rail This is the easiest way to outfit your new Bergara and have it...

www.area419.com

Seekins rings are awesome - 1" high should work.

Vortex low pro bubble level is a nice addition too.

check out the Vortex defender flip caps for your scope - they are well made and easy to use.

I went with a Trijicon Accupower 4.5-30x56 rather than the Vortex Razor, but almost went that route too.

Thx for the recommendations. I'll check 'em out!

I hadn't looked at the Trijicon. Can I ask why you picked that over the Vortex?

Thx,
-jim

 

[sava]

The Vortex Viper Gen II 5-25x50 mil/mil is something dad and I have been using on our Bergara HMR 300 win mag and Bergara HMR Pro 6.5CM with great results. They track well, reticle is easy to use, and the pricepoint is very affordable. They can be had for $800 new or around $700 used. We've been happy with them and it's a good value in my experience.

 

[sava]

To offer some input on the difference between the HMR and HMR Pro, my Pro shoots 1/2 MOA 5 shot groups and dads HMR shoots 1 - 1.2 MOA 5 shot groups.

The Pro action is definitely noticeably smoother and trigger is more defined and crisp when compared to the standard HMR. Is it worth a $500 difference? To me it is.

 

[SonicBurlap]

I got the B14 HMR in 6.5 Creedmoor, installed a Premier HMR fluted bolt because of the lighter firing pin and spring, TriggerTech Special trigger, Talley 20 MOA Pic rail and mounted a Vortex Razor HD 5-20x50 FFP with Vortex 35mm .95" Medium Precision Matched Rings on it. Depending on what type of day it is, whether it's factory ammo, or loads off my buddy's bench I get results ranging from as low as .3 to .7 MOA at 100 yds. However, in light of full disclosure I also got that bolt running extremely smooth after spending some extra time on it and breaking it in for a good while.

 

[Schw15]

To offer some input on the difference between the HMR and HMR Pro, my Pro shoots 1/2 MOA 5 shot groups and dads HMR shoots 1 - 1.2 MOA 5 shot groups.

The Pro action is definitely noticeably smoother and trigger is more defined and crisp when compared to the standard HMR. Is it worth a $500 difference? To me it is.

My hmr shoots way better than 1 to 1.5 more like 1/2 moa

 

[Anthonyc]

I use a pst gen 2 on one of my rifles and love it. Razor would be better if you can get a good deal

 

[Jim C]

I got the B14 HMR in 6.5 Creedmoor, installed a Premier HMR fluted bolt because of the lighter firing pin and spring, TriggerTech Special trigger, Talley 20 MOA Pic rail and mounted a Vortex Razor HD 5-20x50 FFP with Vortex 35mm .95" Medium Precision Matched Rings on it. Depending on what type of day it is, whether it's factory ammo, or loads off my buddy's bench I get results ranging from as low as .3 to .7 MOA at 100 yds. However, in light of full disclosure I also got that bolt running extremely smooth after spending some extra time on it and breaking it in for a good while.

Nice looking rifle. What's that rear rest? How does it attach to the stock?

 

[SonicBurlap]

Nice looking rifle. What's that rear rest? How does it attach to the stock?

Thanks! It's a B&T Industries BT12-QK Accu-Shot monopod, mounted via quick detachable BT43 leveraged rail on a BT34 Picatinny rail. I had to remove the sling stud, fill it in, center the rail and drill two new holes for the mounting screws which I also used red loctite on for stability. If I decide to forego the bipod and monopod and use bags I have silicone ladder rail covers cut to size so I don't tear up the bags. I use the monopod instead of a rear bag, it's attached to my rifle without dangling like a bag, I won't forget it at home because it's attached, and by pushing the quick release button I can regulate it up and down with my left hand while my right hand exercises trigger control. Once you attach the monopod to the leveraged rail you can attach, or detach it just like the Atlas bipod with the simple push of a button and flipping the lever. Beats having to dig out a screw driver.

 

[Jim C]

Thanks! It's a B&T Industries BT12-QK Accu-Shot monopod, mounted via quick detachable BT43 leveraged rail on a BT34 Picatinny rail. I had to remove the sling stud, fill it in, center the rail and drill two new holes for the mounting screws which I also used red loctite on for stability. If I decide to forego the bipod and monopod and use bags I have silicone ladder rail covers cut to size so I don't tear up the bags. I use the monopod instead of a rear bag, it's attached to my rifle without dangling like a bag, I won't forget it at home because it's attached, and by pushing the quick release button I can regulate it up and down with my left hand while my right hand exercises trigger control. Once you attach the monopod to the leveraged rail you can attach, or detach it just like the Atlas bipod with the simple push of a button and flipping the lever. Beats having to dig out a screw driver.

Interesting. Nice job! Thx for the explanation!

 

[SonicBurlap]

Interesting. Nice job! Thx for the explanation!

I posted a video by John McQuay illustrating how the monopod is used in an earlier thread:

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/bergara-hmr-good-bad-or-ugly.6927786/#post-7548075

 

[Dthomas3523]

Hey man. Are you on the valley precision and sotex FB pages?

If not, PM me. Good resource for local matches and such.

 

[Cerwinski]

Good choice on the HMR Pro. I bought the regular HMR at my local shop for 950 as well and couldn't be happier for the money spent. I would have gone with the Pro but they didn't stock them at the time. i went in a week later and they couldn't wait to show me the new Pros the had just got in lol. For a super cheap budget build I put an Athlon Midas Tac on it with a Seekins 29 MOA rail and Vortex PMR rings. It gets 1/2 MOA groups with handloads.

 

[Schw15]

Good choice on the HMR Pro. I bought the regular HMR at my local shop for 950 as well and couldn't be happier for the money spent. I would have gone with the Pro but they didn't stock them at the time. i went in a week later and they couldn't wait to show me the new Pros the had just got in lol. For a super cheap budget build I put an Athlon Midas Tac on it with a Seekins 29 MOA rail and Vortex PMR rings. It gets 1/2 MOA groups with handloads.

Great rifle for the money. Handloads they flat out shoot