I have a 6.5 SST(Sherman Short Tactical) on a short action and I use ARC mags with a 2.980 COAL. I load it at 2.910. I've been really happy with it. It's a long range hunting rifle and I've been shooting 147gr ELDMs at 3000fps for the last 5 years antelope hunting. Besides the proprietary brass made by ADG it's a perfect round for me. Super easy to load for and really easy to tune. 54gr H1000. I've been thinking about building a lightweight hunting rifle in 7 SST. Something like an Anti or Nanook with a 1:8 twist, 20-22" barrel. Looking for a sweet spot between 7SAW and 7SAUM to shoot copper bullets in a lightweight handy rifle.
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Which short action magnum?
- Thread starter Usaf197
- Start date
I thought about adding that caveat to my original post. Outside of specific reasons for F-Class, I don't see the point. I can't see it catching on for hunting or practical shooting..
And just an interesting note, but Alex Wheeler has said he designed the cartridge with ADG brass in mind.
it was designed around adg because Lapua hadn’t made prc brass at the time.
I built a hunting rifle in 7-6.5prc on a model 70 with bdl bottom metal. Can easily do 3” oal
I built a hunting rifle in 7-6.5prc on a model 70 with bdl bottom metal. Can easily do 3” oal
Is it enough of an improvement to choose the WSM over the SAUM or PRC when you factory in brass availability and quality?
How does the 300WSM stack up? I'm guessing at a 3" COAL you'll be getting heavier bullets for more energy but worse ballistics that a 180gr ELD/Hybrid?
As a data point. Factory 200gr federal ammo is 2800fps. Handload berger 210gr are the same 2800fps. 178gr ELDX are 3043fps.
Enough to go wsm over saum is all personal. We’re really just splitting hairs at this point when comparing the 2 in the same caliber.
Really there are 2 main reasons to pick a 30 over a 7 in these short mags. Heavier bullet for more energy on target, and longer barrel life.
I, my wife, and kids have been shooting/hunting with the 7-WSM for several years now. Killed a pile of Alaska game with this cartridge! (all on a R-700 short action clone receivers-custom short throat reamer) I feel this is the perfect combination off bullet weight, impact velocity and shoot ability in a lighter weight hunting rifle. I currently have enough 7 WSM to get me through the 3 current 7 WSM barrels on our rifles now but due to the nonexistent 7 WSM brass let alone any kind of premium brass available has me looking into options for the future… Here is a rough comparison chart for different variants of 7 short mag (missing 7 Sherman Short Magnum and 7 FCP) but will give you the idea. All percentage loss measurements where based off the 7-WSM due to it being the largest.
The 7 WSM and the 300/7 WSM where ran through a small base Full length die so probably reduced case compacity slightly, the 6.5/7 PRC and 7 SAUM were neck sized only.
True case capacity to me is with the desired bullet seated at desired length!
The 7 WSM and the 300/7 WSM where ran through a small base Full length die so probably reduced case compacity slightly, the 6.5/7 PRC and 7 SAUM were neck sized only.
True case capacity to me is with the desired bullet seated at desired length!
I'm saving this!
Ivbeen planning to to a 7 something for a while now and never could find out realistic comparisons as discussion usually just turn into "short action is dumb" and not provide SA info.
Just wait for the CDG and get a 7mm PRC barrel, it’s the new 7mm easy button. I sweated over 7mm’s for quite some time and finally had landed on the 7ss right about the Rich changed the reamer dimensions. After that I said piss on it and went PRC and have never looked back.
If you truely are stuck on a mag feeding in a short action with high bc bullets the Sherman shorts are the best answer. Just make sure your smith is using the B reamer and you get the dies to match.
If you truely are stuck on a mag feeding in a short action with high bc bullets the Sherman shorts are the best answer. Just make sure your smith is using the B reamer and you get the dies to match.
As far as I know yes it did. It was basically an adjustment to the current dimensions of ADG brass.
Sherman sold to DI precision. If you have or have had any problems with a Sherman get a hold of them.
OP, don't waste your time with the Sherman Short Mags, complete cluster fuck scenario of the chamber designer vs the brass manufacturer and the customer paying for it all.
My crew fell into the hype trap of the Sherman Short Mags of pushing heavy-for caliber bullets at belted-mag speeds and had five rifles built. Not one of those oversized chambered rifles would produce marketed speeds without expanding the undersized ADG brass case heads and primer pockets, forcing you to reduce your loads, contradictory to your purpose for the Sherman chamberings. My 7mm-08 AI's and 7 SAW's will do the exact same thing with the same bullets as these Shermans we built, but with Lapua Palma brass that will last countless firings.
My crew fell into the hype trap of the Sherman Short Mags of pushing heavy-for caliber bullets at belted-mag speeds and had five rifles built. Not one of those oversized chambered rifles would produce marketed speeds without expanding the undersized ADG brass case heads and primer pockets, forcing you to reduce your loads, contradictory to your purpose for the Sherman chamberings. My 7mm-08 AI's and 7 SAW's will do the exact same thing with the same bullets as these Shermans we built, but with Lapua Palma brass that will last countless firings.
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If the B chamber fixes all their stupid shit and will do EXACTLY as advertised and survive, great, go for it, but we won't chamber another one while the WSMs are available.
The Sherman's are a interesting topic that I can't quite wrap my head around. The way to make a bullet go faster down the barrel is to increase or sustain the pressure pushing it longer. You can do that with shorter fatter cases to optimize powder burn with faster powders or slower powders and longer cases and barrels.
So with case design and capacity being close the only way I can see the Sherman making improvements is by adding more pressure. Or more realisticly hiding pressure signs better.
Add to it that people were having issues and it's enough to steer me away. Not saying it's not a good design, just I don't understand what it offers.
So with case design and capacity being close the only way I can see the Sherman making improvements is by adding more pressure. Or more realisticly hiding pressure signs better.
Add to it that people were having issues and it's enough to steer me away. Not saying it's not a good design, just I don't understand what it offers.
This must have been Pre-B reamer. The newest iteration of chambering and brass works as advertised. A good buddy is pushing his 7SS with 184 Hybrids 3000+ with RL26.
That's correct sir.
That's great, they're able to get there with one powder choice that's the most overpriced and impossible to find.
VV is available and not hard to find. While, you're not gonna find those speeds with VV powder, it's an alternative.
Absolutely. Just like everyone being scared of bullet jump. Some of the most accurate ammo/rifle combos I have jump bullets over .100"
Ern
Correct again, just wish using they didn't come at the expense of reduced barrel life. But 100% agree, VV is a great option looking for both speed and accuracy
My vote is 300wsm all the way. I use sorted winchester brass.
Ern
Ern
Guys have found a perfect combo in the 7fcp with n555. I wouldn’t hesitate to try any V powders.
That being said, with the 7wsm around, I don’t see the draw to the Sherman 7
That being said, with the 7wsm around, I don’t see the draw to the Sherman 7
More speed = less barrel life. Not and way to make any serious change to that formula
I love that you said the word serious, 100%, cuz every unicorn chambering seems to try and argue with that math.
Haha.......anyone remember the 243/dtac days with h1000 and 29" barrels?
I tried something similar with 260ai, imr7828ssc, and long barrels. Great results but recoil was so much worse than the little weenie 6mm nowadays.
I tried something similar with 260ai, imr7828ssc, and long barrels. Great results but recoil was so much worse than the little weenie 6mm nowadays.
Yup. I'm running N565 or RL26 and I've had great success running 184s at 2700-2800. Which is all the speed I need for my application.
I went 7SAUM and use ADG brass, couldn't be happier. Mild recoil, excellent ballistics with 180-190 Bergers
^^This^^
i also looked into longer throats and found optimized loads needed more powder to offset the greater case capacity so I’m back to standard COAL.
I’m running Hammer bullets.
ADG 300 Winchester Short Magnum Brass
ADG 300 Winchest Short Magnum Brass 50 Ct Box Caliber: .30 Finish: Standard Case Weight: 233.9 grains (average) Case Volume: 79.8 grains of H20 (average) Neck Wall Thickness:: .0157 inch (average) About ADG: Headquartered in Elizabethtown, KY and owned and operated by eight...
www.creedmoorsports.com
For short action, mag feeding, I say 25 or 6.5 PRC or 25/6.5/7 SAUM. I think the sherman SS case design is actually ideal but wouldn't plan on pushing them any faster, if even as fast, as a SAUM if I did go that direction.
I have a 300 WSM hunting rifle. Used it more than any other hunting rifle for a number of years but the more I shoot the less i want to deal with 8# 30 cal magnums. That amount of snort just isn't necessary. That and the fact that you're not going to outperform the high BC 7s with a sub 3" COAL 300 WSM when it comes to drop and drift anyway. I'd have no qualms about using a 257, 264, or 284 bullet for elk.
I have a 300 WSM hunting rifle. Used it more than any other hunting rifle for a number of years but the more I shoot the less i want to deal with 8# 30 cal magnums. That amount of snort just isn't necessary. That and the fact that you're not going to outperform the high BC 7s with a sub 3" COAL 300 WSM when it comes to drop and drift anyway. I'd have no qualms about using a 257, 264, or 284 bullet for elk.
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Are you referring to VV and barrel life? If so is it just based on the temp ratings? N555 for example doesn't appear to burn that hot
Quality brass that doesn't require any work is definitely worth a lot IMO.
Brass prep sucks.
In comparison to RL and Hodgdon powders, VV is certainly more cooler burning. Makes it ideal for a substitute for 'more popular' US products that you find more common on the shelf.
I have a 6.5SS also and have killed lots of stuff with it shooting 122gr solids at 3400fps. I'd still build a 300wsm first for hunting.
That’s over generalizing though. N530, 540, 550, 560, and 570 are some of the hottest burning powders out there.
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