Who invented the straight behind the rifle prone position?

JäGER821

JäGER821

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Minuteman
Jul 14, 2013
16
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Germany
#1
Did anybody know who first worked on the straight behind the rifle Position and first teached it?
It seems to be difficult to manage it with advice of somebody who know how it Works, how difficult it Must be to work on this as the very first...
For the most People i know rifle hop is normal and they never started to think about it...
See it as a Problem, develop a Solution and a Position to solve this must be a difficult thing at the very first Time...

Thank you for any answers

Regards Daniel
 
#4
I just asked because a Lot People here favor the angeled Position without bag and bipod and theire reference is always Army and Marine shooting Manuals.
I dont know These Manuals and in military i was told to do it with a small angle.
We had Spotters and the bipod hop was no Problem.
Now i joined here and work on the straight position.
So i was thinking about who started with this.
 
#5
The angled position was a carry over from sling shooting. We aren't shooting with slings in the prone any more. We have bipods.

Rifles Only was the first teacher of the method I know of.

It creates a smaller down range profile, controls recoil better, it allows the shooter to see the results of their shot without the need of a spotter.

Being at an angle is works with a sling, not a bipod or rest.
 
#7
Jacob Bynum was the first that I know of. Everyone else that I know of, who teaches it now, like Todd Hodnett for example, learned it from Jacob at Rifles Only.
 
#8
I learned the straight behind the rifle from the FBI Sniper School in 1984. That was taught at Fort Ord in Montery California by both the FBI and West Coast Army AMU. They did not teach it as a new technique but as what they liked best for bipod shooting. With sling shooting I was taught the slight angle.

Really there is nothing new when it comes to shooting techniques. Physics works and always has.
 
#9
They taught it when I was in basic & AIT in 1966. Then "in country indoctrination" when I first got to Vietnam, the instructors came by and kicked your legs, getting them together, to allow less exposure.

May not be the most stable position, but I like the idea of presenting a smaller target.

I have Jacob's "Rifle's Only" CD on the subject. It works, I just happen to be one who uses a sling & the "cocked leg" position. Just the kind of shooting I do, but no one is shooting at me now.
 
#10
Kraig, what amasses me is some of the weird positions I see in F Class. I see guys look like corkscrews but still shoot small. It really opened my eyes to let them use what ever works and is repeatable. With that said I think the straight behind the rifle is the most repeatable way for bipod shooting but I roll up a bit in sling shooting.
 
#11
Who invented the straight behind the rifle prone position?

Don't get me wrong:

I'm not saying that Jacob was the first guy ever to lie straight behind a rifle.

I saw people tell other people, in a military context, not to lie sideways behind a rifle in combat and while taking effective fire. It was explained in contrast to the sport-shooting NRA position. That's been a part of basic training for as long as I can remember.

But that's not the same thing as teaching a straight position for precision shooting off a bi pod.
 
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#12
Straight back has always been the correct way to shoot behind a machine gun to load the bipod properly unless shooting from behind cover. Even prone sling shooting you want to be cocked as little as possible for fast accurate followups on the rapid fire stage.
 
#13
One might as well ask who invented the wheel. Most LMG users have been taught this way since WWII. It's neither new or special. The angled off position exists because of sling positions, that's all.
 
#14
The LMG shooters dont go straight behind the Gun to See the Impact in theire Scopes...
The Position is a Little Bit different... If u dig the bipod feets in the ground and Push your Full bodyweight in the Gun maybe the trigger Control is also a Little Bit different...
The snipers in WWII maybe also was not able to See a Impact with a 3x scope.
I also asked this in the stupid marksmanship questions thread so...
Maybee i just was interested who first Developed it to See the Impact of his own Shot in a High power scope that no Spotter is needed for corrections...
A Lot of military Units use Spotter/ Shooter Teams... And i was teached to shoot Prone with a light angle on BOLT GUNS...
But i get my answers thank you all :D
 
#15
I think the only difference is, Rifles Only built their program around being straight. They didn't vary when it comes to body position.

You had others that might have moved back and forth between styles, and used being straight for different reasons, but RO was pretty consistent in their program and explain "why" beyond just creating a smaller profile.

I agree, it's been done here and there for a long time, especially with other systems like the MG, but the program for doing it was really tightened up and qualified at RO, at least that is my opinion as not many were doing as routine as they are.

I would not waste my time quoting manuals, they are full of errors and well out of date. As well the concept of the Sniper / Spotter Team has certainly evolved since the 60's, 70s, and beyond. The latest military manual on the subject is what, Mid 90s... ? Sure there are few newer ones like the SOTIC, but overall, what is taught is really old doctrine with a few refinements. Ask yourself, what is more desirable a Shooter on a bolt rifle with a Spotter on Glass to correct, or Two Shooters on Rifles who can engage and correct themselves ? A lot of Institutional Incest in military training... still.
 
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#16
Ze Germans?

Olympic shooters have a lot of science in their coaching. The German literature (some go into incredible detail) I've read on the subject says very clearly that straight behind the rifle is best for recoil, but very difficult/ uncomfortable for a target shooter. With a bipod it's another story, there isn't the limitations of sling and left arm support. I'm always straight behind, situation permitting. I started in the 90's and have never been taught anything but.
 
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#17
A lot of good info here. My take on this is NPA should come first and then get as straight behind the rifle as practical. This is for Bipod prone or standard prone. With standard prone the body will be angled slightly more to get your support arm under the rifle. Bipod prone because the rifle is supported by the bipod it is easier to get behind the rifle however for me it works best if I reduce my LOP by 1/2" or so to get truly square. Some times you Want to have your body at a angle to take advantage of cover. Getting in the perfect position outside of the square range can be difficult, in fact being able to even use the prone position outside of the square range can be rare.
 
#20
I believe he is responding to the post above his about getting a position and how not all shots are from the prone or allow the shooter to get perfectly straight.

Basically he is talking about field conditions and variations found in one position due to terrain.

Not who is responsible for what ...
 
#21
Thanks for clearing that up Lowlight.
English is not my native language and I sometimes miss the reference that makes it unambiguous.

I was indeed just trying to add some nuance to post #17.
 
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