Who of you bullshitters claims 1/4 MOA all day? Show us all you proof?

[Marinevet1]

My last target..............10......1" target dots..........
I have good days, and some not good days...........10 dots, 5 rounds per dot............over all a pretty good day, but take a look at the top dot on the target that was my cold bore shot of the day........the center one.........

 

[DRandi]

It was used when I bought it and since then I added about 6,5k rounds to it.

I can drag out the log books and get the neck and throat measurements for the last time I checked if you really wanna know.

 

[DRandi]

I got not problem with 10 shot or more groups. Going through some family drama and the pics shooting in the rain with the 6.5 man bun was my first outing it 2 plus years.

 

[DRandi]

Here’s some ugliness working on shaking off the cobwebs. I’ll show my shitty groups from not making a stable firing position.

300 yards with 6.5 Creedmoor 140 Hornady ELDM.

There’s my very first group after 2.5 years of almost never even touching one of my rifles.

Edit: fixing my drunk posting.

 

[SilentStalkr]

I got not problem with 10 shot or more groups. Going through some family drama and the pics shooting in the rain with the 6.5 man bun was my first outing it 2 plus years.

All good man! I haven’t been able to go in probably 5 years outside of a handful of times.

 

[tinker]

I plan on shooting some 10 round groups on video, but I'll have to have a full day so I can edit out all the shitty results and cherry pick...

that guy on youtube called "bloke on the range" has a series of videos of people doing it. I will shamefully admit I even did it cold bore with two rifles. He said they had to be 11lbs or lighter. That was tough for me as most of my junk weighs a lot more than that. No cherry picked loads. Both cold bore.

 

[roostercogburn98]

No one here wants to do a 10 shot string. Goodness gracious.

How about a 15 round string? Not .25, but sub moa on all three from a home built AR off the hood of my gator. Did I mention it was factory IMI 77g?

 

[diggler1833]

that guy on youtube called "bloke on the range" has a series of videos of people doing it. I will shamefully admit I even did it cold bore with two rifles. He said they had to be 11lbs or lighter. That was tough for me as most of my junk weighs a lot more than that. No cherry picked loads. Both cold bore.

I did something similar, but referenced that Backfire challenge in my video.

Ended up shooting two consecutive groups of 10 shots at 300 yards. Both were right at 2"...so I was a 2/3 MOA guy that day with that load. My rifle is much heavier than 11lbs too.

Not excellent, but I don't claim to be a 1/4 minute shooter either...

 

[Emerson0311]

T3X with a clamp on brake in an ACC, Berger 153.5 factory ammo test. Shot 1 round on the gong first to make sure it would be on paper.

 

[Ronws]

How about a 15 round string? Not .25, but sub moa on all three from a home built AR off the hood of my gator. Did I mention it was factory IMI 77g?View attachment 8544570View attachment 8544571

I like what you did there. 3 different targets to show all the actual impacts. Then, it can be averaged from greatest dispersion. Which may have less weight than average dispersion.

That is, when you hear hoofbeats, you expect horses, not zebras.

 

[Ronws]

The smartass in me wanted to compile 10 of my one shot groups.

 

[Ex E6]

I don't see a distinction between "hunting" & "target" loads.
Shoot 10 shot groups with what you intend to shoot with & that's the result.

IF Hunting bullets were as accurate as Target bullets , WHY would shooters being paying nearly 2-3 times more and WHY aren't BRS using Hunting bullets in matches ???. I Don't use Hunting bullets to shoot matches with and vice a versa .

A reasonable assessment of one's weapon accuracy is shooting #3, 5 shot groups allowing 5-8 minutes cool down for the barrel between groups . If one has a spray and pray weapon ,makes little to no difference how many rounds one shoots .

 

[roostercogburn98]

I like what you did there. 3 different targets to show all the actual impacts. Then, it can be averaged from greatest dispersion. Which may have less weight than average dispersion.

That is, when you hear hoofbeats, you expect horses, not zebras.

Not an overlay but some numbers to correlate I reckon. If I did the maff right

Group 1- 1.01” or .97moa
Group 2- .99” or .95moa
Group 3- .85” or .81 moa

Three group average is .95” or .91moa

 

[Ronws]

Not an overlay but some numbers to correlate I reckon. If I did the maff right

Group 1- 1.01” or .97moa
Group 2- .99” or .95moa
Group 3- .85” or .81 moa

Three group average is .95” or .91moa

That's exactly what I was thinking.

And also the point, for example, of Jayden Quinlan from Hornady when he talked about group size depending on the job.

So, for a hunting rifle, instead of a long string 40 or 60 shots, shoot a 3 shot group and cool. Repeat that several times. And then either overlay or just do the math you did. This doesn't mean the rifle will act exactly this way the next time it is shot in a hunting scenario. But there is a good chance it will behave this way.

 

[Barelstroker]

That's exactly what I was thinking.

And also the point, for example, of Jayden Quinlan from Hornady when he talked about group size depending on the job.

So, for a hunting rifle, instead of a long string 40 or 60 shots, shoot a 3 shot group and cool. Repeat that several times. And then either overlay or just do the math you did. This doesn't mean the rifle will act exactly this way the next time it is shot in a hunting scenario. But there is a good chance it will behave this way.

I agree with shooting as the rifle will normally be used. It would tend to be more realistic in terms of how the rifle will react in the field.
If the rifle was for use in a dog town, I think it perfectly reasonable to shoot little 1/2" orange stickers at one shot per sticker. Since all that really matters is matching POI to POA & the approximate mean radius, shooting one shot per dot lets you see quick & easy where you're at. For a hunting rifle, you always want a good idea of cold bore shots & if you take the time & effort to shoot 15 or 20 to make any adjustments necessary, you'll have a rifle who's potential is fully accessible.

 

[Ronws]

I agree with shooting as the rifle will normally be used. It would tend to be more realistic in terms of how the rifle will react in the field.
If the rifle was for use in a dog town, I think it perfectly reasonable to shoot little 1/2" orange stickers at one shot per sticker. Since all that really matters is matching POI to POA & the approximate mean radius, shooting one shot per dot lets you see quick & easy where you're at. For a hunting rifle, you always want a good idea of cold bore shots & if you take the time & effort to shoot 15 or 20 to make any adjustments necessary, you'll have a rifle who's potential is fully accessible.

And also, with considerations to impact velocity and bullet performance, a good idea of the effective range of that gun.

For example, I have a .308 That shoots 3 shots of Federal Fusion 165 gr less than 1 MOA. But because of how the bullet performs and it starts out slow - ish at 2700 fps, I consider it good for 300 yards and closer. Technically, MPBR for that is a little over 200 yards. But as long as I am not shooting past 300 yards, I know I am good. So, it is good for whitetail in the thick woods where it is hard to even get a 100 yard shot.

 

[Pharmseller]

And also, with considerations to impact velocity and bullet performance, a good idea of the effective range of that gun.

For example, I have a .308 That shoots 3 shots of Federal Fusion 165 gr less than 1 MOA. But because of how the bullet performs and it starts out slow - ish at 2700 fps, I consider it good for 300 yards and closer. Technically, MPBR for that is a little over 200 yards. But as long as I am not shooting past 300 yards, I know I am good. So, it is good for whitetail in the thick woods where it is hard to even get a 100 yard shot.

At what point does velocity drop below 1800 fps?




P

 

[Ronws]

At what point does velocity drop below 1800 fps?




P

Good call. On that one, on my Strelok Pro for that gun, it is over 1800 at 500 yards and below it at 600 yards. I believe I was using 2k as a minimum. But I am aware of other bullets, such as the Hornady Precision Hunter 175 gr 7 PRC having 1800 fps on the back of the box. And with that one, I had emailed Hornady tech support. That bullet actually expands at 1600 fps and faster. But I believe they print 1800 fps to ensure a shooter is getting good performance at impact velocity.

Even though I have shot a .70 inch pattern in 3 shots, that is at a range. An indoor range. So, in the field, I still call it a 1 MOA rifle, not a sub MOA rifle. Because I am part of the system.

 

[Pharmseller]

So the bullet should perform at 500 but you’re limiting it to 300?




P

 

[Oldloser]

My

That's exactly what I was thinking.

And also the point, for example, of Jayden Quinlan from Hornady when he talked about group size depending on the job.

So, for a hunting rifle, instead of a long string 40 or 60 shots, shoot a 3 shot group and cool. Repeat that several times. And then either overlay or just do the math you did. This doesn't mean the rifle will act exactly this way the next time it is shot in a hunting scenario. But there is a good chance it will behave this way.

A good protocol is to shoot a 5 round group at zero, go work props, then shoot the same at the end.

Nowadays, I do a three round group, and if they are all same hole, go do my thing, then come back and put one to end the day in the aforementioned hole.

 

[Oldloser]

IF Hunting bullets were as accurate as Target bullets , WHY would shooters being paying nearly 2-3 times more and WHY aren't BRS using Hunting bullets in matches ???. I Don't use Hunting bullets to shoot matches with and vice a versa .

A reasonable assessment of one's weapon accuracy is shooting #3, 5 shot groups allowing 5-8 minutes cool down for the barrel between groups . If one has a spray and pray weapon ,makes little to no difference how many rounds one shoots .

The Berger Extreme Hunter bullets are the best out there. Better than the target bullets. Extremely consistent.

Maybe you meant commercially available cartridges?

 

[thejeep]

So the bullet should perform at 500 but you’re limiting it to 300?




P

When I do my part

 

[sloporsche]

When I do my part

yep...i have a 300 win mag that will shoot well past 500 meters but in my old hands it would require the target to wait patiently until i finally walked a round into it

 

[Ronws]

So the bullet should perform at 500 but you’re limiting it to 300?




P

Yes, mainly because of me. The shooting position I have is in the woods with a tripod. Also, my sight line in most places I can hunt maxes out about around 300.

 

[Ex E6]

The Berger Extreme Hunter bullets are the best out there. Better than the target bullets. Extremely consistent.

Maybe you meant commercially available cartridges?

Generally speaking Target bullets are designed for extreme accuracy and hunting bullets are designed to expand upon impact ; Unless they're solids and many of those are lathe turned ,especially in larger caliber . Just by visual comparison aerodynamics are obvious .

A typical hunting bullet ;

As opposed to a typical Match target bullet . There are always exceptions to the rules .

 

[Rthur]

Paging @coldboremiracle , previous post may need some help...


R

 

[coldboremiracle]

Generally speaking Target bullets are designed for extreme accuracy and hunting bullets are designed to expand upon impact ; Unless they're solids and many of those are lathe turned ,especially in larger caliber . Just by visual comparison aerodynamics are obvious .

A typical hunting bullet ;

View attachment 8545779

As opposed to a typical Match target bullet . There are always exceptions to the rules .

View attachment 8545781

Paging @coldboremiracle , previous post may need some help...


R

Are you talking about the quoted post?

 

[coldboremiracle]

Generally speaking Target bullets are designed for extreme accuracy and hunting bullets are designed to expand upon impact ; Unless they're solids and many of those are lathe turned ,especially in larger caliber . Just by visual comparison aerodynamics are obvious .

Generally speaking, perhaps from 50 years ago. There is nothing stopping "traditional hunting bullets" from shooting extremely accurate, just like there is nothing stopping "Target" bullets from performing perfectly on a game animal.

We have a whole thread on this forum thats over a decade old now packed full of game animals killed by match and target bullets. The debate on whether target bullets work on game has concluded. Put a good bullet in the right spot works every time.
I put together a collection of arguments on the subject if you're interested in reading more, I'll apologize up front as it is somewhat long-winded but you can read it here: Read Me

Just for fun, this is from last month. My son shot a young buck with another target bullet, one of my fave's actually, the 175 Sierra Match King:

 

[sloporsche]

to use target [ FMJ etc] on game vs dedicated designed hunting ammo is slob hunting imho and needlessly cruel

 

[DIBBS]

I've shot quite a few coyotes with 52, 75, and 105 grain amaxes - originally developed as target bullets, now the ELD M line. They have worked extremely well from close to far.

I have also shot them with 107 mk in a fast twist and had good expansion at distance.

Berger's original VLD's were called target bullets, and I've shot coyotes with those as well. (Thin jackets) They perform WELL!

Hunters found out that the original Berger Target VLD's worked like a grenade when placed in the vitals. Not developed for this but they work.

Slob hunting.... I think not. FMJ's however are not considered target bullets

JMHO.

 

[Ronws]

Even a perfectly functioning bullet can yield some surprises.

My boss was hunting Aoudad with his .300 WM. Hit him has he came past a bush at about 250 yards (south Texas.) The ram turned and started charging his direction and he racked another round. About that time, the ram dropped, having run 30 yards or so on his last pulse and breath.

Shot placement matters more than caliber or grain weight. Proviso, of course. There is no arguing physics of impact velocity. But bullet performance at impact velocity is what matters to me.

Here is the beast.

 

[Death From A Distance]

Not my target, but impressive! Shot by an original Civil War sniper rifle, called the Little George Lainhart.

 

[Oldloser]

to use target [ FMJ etc] on game vs dedicated designed hunting ammo is slob hunting imho and needlessly cruel

Maybe you can do both?

 

[Ex E6]

Are you talking about the quoted post?

Generalization it would appear .

 

[Ex E6]

Generally speaking, perhaps from 50 years ago. There is nothing stopping "traditional hunting bullets" from shooting extremely accurate, just like there is nothing stopping "Target" bullets from performing perfectly on a game animal.

We have a whole thread on this forum thats over a decade old now packed full of game animals killed by match and target bullets. The debate on whether target bullets work on game has concluded. Put a good bullet in the right spot works every time.
I put together a collection of arguments on the subject if you're interested in reading more, I'll apologize up front as it is somewhat long-winded but you can read it here: Read Me

Just for fun, this is from last month. My son shot a young buck with another target bullet, one of my fave's actually, the 175 Sierra Match King:

My understanding is FMJ come under heading of target type bullets , while Cup & Core Monolithic and Bonded bullets serve better for hunting purposes .

If all bullets performed identically ,what's the purpose of variation of design and materials . As I've shot a number of larger game over near 6 decades now and have had zero problems as a result of shot placement as well as proper bullet selection .

A .22RF will kill a Deer but it's hardly the caliber or bullet preferred .

 

[coldboremiracle]

If all bullets performed identically ,what's the purpose of variation of design and materials

Nobody is saying all bullets performed identically. FMJ's being target bullets is new to me, but obviously nobody is recommending those. I'm guessing based on your comment you didn't look at either of the links.

 

[Ronws]

Nobody is saying all bullets performed identically. FMJ's being target bullets is new to me, but obviously nobody is recommending those. I'm guessing based on your comment you didn't look at either of the links.

I read the linked article. And then, again, just now in case I missed where you mentioned using FMJ for hunting. And you did not. So, I am missing something. I saw a few other people mention FMJ but not you.

And I was under the impression that even a monolithic is a different ball of wax than is FMJ ammo. So, I am not sure why others are suggesting or inferring that you were advocating FMJ for hunting. The ranges I go to, especially the outdoor ranges, do not allow FMJ on the 100 yard range. They want you to use bullets that open well on impact. The idea is to avoid problems from ricochet, etcetera.

Even a monolithic is designed to petal out, AFAIK.

 

[Ex E6]

ALL bullets are designed and built with a particular purpose ,what shooters do with them varies . Bullets of today are indeed far more accurate than bullets of the 1920's-70's . What's perhaps blurred the line , is the Velocity at which we shooters are pushing them at now.
I can remember having certain thin skinned or gilding metal ,simply disintegrate out of some .20 Cal. I've fired .

Which ever bullet works best for the task at hand , is or should be the bullet of choice .