Why a bolt gun?

[bm11]

I would really like to get BM11's thoughts on this issue.

I think a lot of the guys in this thread are over thinking things. I am certainly no military contract expert, but I imaging MOST of the reason the military is still using bolt guns in .308 and not completely converted over to semi auto has a LOT more to do with MONEY and a lot less to do with the differences in the platform.

It is certainly true that a bolt gun is much easier to be much more accurate than a semi auto. That said, the m110 meets the .mil requirements for accuracy, and in real world engagements at real world distances, the difference between a .5 moa bolt gun and a 1 moa gas gun is all on paper, very little difference in hit percentage.

A lot of the bolt guns are being switched out to 300WM and even .338LM, which gives a distinct ballistics advantage, and those calibers really (at least for now) are MUCH more at home on a bolt gun than a gas gun, as far as I know the military hasn't even looked at a semi auto .338 or .300.

But going back to my original point, I think very little has to do with the end users preference and has very much to do with the fact that switching out a bunch of rifles that work (bolt guns) for a bunch of rifles that fill certain roles better (gas guns) is a matter of not being as big of a financial priority as certain other aspects.

And to be clear, I am a bolt gun guy that enjoys shooting gassers. My bolt gun DESTROYS my SR-25 in terms of consistent accuracy. But if I was in a situation where I needed to hit you from 600 yards away, either would get it done fine, and in that situation I'd probably be using the gun that was issued to me and not the one I chose, because I probably wouldn't have been asked the question.

 

[Graham]

I think a lot of the guys in this thread are over thinking things. I am certainly no military contract expert, but I imaging MOST of the reason the military is still using bolt guns in .308 and not completely converted over to semi auto has a LOT more to do with MONEY and a lot less to do with the differences in the platform.

Not to mention the fact that for all practical purposes the military has only just begun to re-embrace the .308, after Afghanistan. When it did, it went to a semi-auto platform, and for 'sniping' purposes its .308s became .300Win Mags.

 

[tylerw02]

Amazing what lessons they learn in a decade of war.

 

[Graham]

Amazing what lessons they learn in a decade of war.

It's just a shame when it's an old lesson over again: Like the benefit of placing armor on vehicles.

 

[tylerw02]

It's just a shame when it's an old lesson over again: Like the benefit of placing armor on vehicles.

When I was a kid, my grandma told me those that don't seek those with experience and listen will have to feel.

 

[Delta4-3]

It's just a shame when it's an old lesson over again: Like the benefit of placing armor on vehicles.

Dude, that's what I'm barkin. I thought we learned in '45 that when someone ruffles you're skirt you drop an A-bomb on em, negating the need for semis, bolt guns, or armored vehicles. Oh well.

 

[Graham]

Dude, that's what I'm barkin. I thought we learned in '45 that when someone ruffles you're skirt you drop an A-bomb on em, negating the need for semis, bolt guns, or armored vehicles. Oh well.

The problem with making warfare a business is that it encourages those in charge to forget that wars are fought to be won.

 

[Delta4-3]

That's the truth, I'd much rather have destroyed the place and not have those nine black KIA bracelets, but politicians and contractors have to eat (and be billionaires) too.

 

[Graham]

With apologies to Chairman Mao: It sounds like you don't care about the color of the rifle, bolt or semi, as long as it catches mice.

 

[Delta4-3]

Hitting proverbial nail on head

 

[KUSA]

I am sure a benchrest comp will be won by a gas gun in the future. It is going to be a while.....

I have a 6MM AR that shoots bugholes at 100 and stays under 1/2 inch past 600 yds and it is a gas gun,

I think we have found it..

 

[allidoiswin]

1/4" groups???? Who's gas guns are consistently turning in 1/4" groups?

Larue OBR 7.62

 

[elfster1234]

Ok......... This thread is going full retard... Seriously.


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y3FzVQi-R8

Larue OBR 7.62

 

[Pinecone]

Interesting, from M24 wiki article:

Accuracy: According to MIL-R-71126(AR), the M24 shall achieve the accuracy results stated below when using M118 Special Ball and fired from a Government approved machine rest. The average mean radius, calculated using 5 targets of 10 shots each, shall be less than or equal to the following values:[1]
200 yards (182.9 m): 2.6 inches (1.242 MOA)
200 metres (218.7 yd): 2.8 inches (1.223 MOA)
300 yards (274.3 m): 3.8 inches (1.146 MOA)

If these accuracy standards are not met the barrel is considered worn out.

The actual rifle requirements for accuracy were .35 MOA from a machine rest and according to Major John Mende (ret.) this accuracy had to be maintained to 10,000 rounds. He stated, "Interesting side note was there was a 10,000 round requirement for the barrel to maintain the original accuracy. In fact after some 10,000 round tests we discovered the accuracy improved. A few barrels were tested past 20,000 and accuracy never went below the original accuracy requirement."

Maximum effective range is given as 800 meters (875 yd), but record shots have been made with the M24 at over 1,000 meters (1,094 yd). Meanwhile, the standard optical sight has a maximum elevation adjustment of 1,000 meters (1,094 yd).

 

[shane45]

Purely an amature perspective but if I had to crawl through the crud in a freezing rain LZ to take a single shot on a HV target, Id expect to be issued a bolt gun. If I had to control an area of city in an astan I would hope I was issued a semi.

 

[Delta4-3]

But if I was in a situation where I needed to hit you from 600 yards away, either would get it done fine, and in that situation I'd probably be using the gun that was issued to me and not the one I chose, because I probably wouldn't have been asked the question.

Dude, you've got to move to a better unit! Everybody got a choice in my unit, unless you're the new guy that got the m110 that nobody else wanted!

 

[Delta4-3]

I'm sorry, my posts are getting absurd. I'm going on my 3rd week of bedrest, and this is the only forum I'm a member of, so you'll just have to suck it up and take the brunt of it.

 

[bm11]

Dude, you've got to move to a better unit! Everybody got a choice in my unit, unless you're the new guy that got the m110 that nobody else wanted!

Just want to clarify that my perspective is NOT that of an enlisted man. I was discussing a hypothetical and in no way was implying that I actually am a military sniper.

 

[Delta4-3]

I was just flickin you're nuggets.