Why can NO ONE call 6BR the same thing???

[tinker]

I am getting more than a little frustrated.

I have a Nosler book.....it has 6BR Remington & 6mm Remington listed as two different things. So clearly they are diff. But it's loadings only go to 80gr bullets.

I bought the new Hodgden "Reloading Manual" which is really just a half assed magazine (but to be honest for 12 bucks I thought it was too good to be true to get an actual book for that price) and hodgdon's "reloading manual doesn't even list 6BR at all, not remington or norma.

So I went to Hodgdon's site......for an hour it's has been loading the page (refreshed a bunch or times).

But I ordered RCBS Dies and found out afterwards they were remington not norma. So I ordered Redding....they show up and say remington on the box (which I learned in another thread anyway. But it turns out they are the same.

Why can't people just pick ONE freaking name and be done?

I have read what other people use for loads but I would rather look in a book and start there.....I guess these teenie boppers are just heck bent on killing paper books. Next I bet they will want us to pay to stream reloading data.

So does anyone know of an actual reference material to see load data for 6BR?

I have some Berger 105s to try out and no where to find data.

 

[smoooth1]

6mm BR

Running 26” Stuteville 1-7.5 twist barrel. Planning on Varget with CCI 450s. Looking for some starting loads for 107 SMKs and 105 Nosler RDFs. Any helps appreciated. I’ve tried searching but not seeing a lot on 6br loads so I figured I start a thread. Thanks for any help.

www.snipershide.com

 

[tinker]

6mm BR

Running 26” Stuteville 1-7.5 twist barrel. Planning on Varget with CCI 450s. Looking for some starting loads for 107 SMKs and 105 Nosler RDFs. Any helps appreciated. I’ve tried searching but not seeing a lot on 6br loads so I figured I start a thread. Thanks for any help.

www.snipershide.com

I am well aware of the sticky. That is NOT a book.

 

[ma smith]

For whatever reason, BR rem is in alot of manuals for reloading. The 6BR rem was older design with shorter chamber-throat for older bullets. Modern shooters are using 6BR [Norma] as revised in the 1990s, with spec chamber for ammo with long bullets.The eg Lapua 105 and 109 are longer bullets with high BCs. The rest of the story is on 6MM Br link.

see, eg

old

6mm Bench Rest Remington Load Data

Explore the world of Nosler, renowned for crafting the finest bullets, ammunition, rifles, and brass. Discover our extensive lineup, including Partition, AccuBond, E-Tip, Ballistic Tip, Custom Competition, and more. Experience superior quality and performance with Nosler products.

www.nosler.com

ETA - new

You are being redirected...

 

[tinker]

For whatever reason, BR rem is in alot of manuals for reloading. The 6BR rem was older design with shorter chamber for older bullets. Modern shooters are using 6BR as revised in the 1990s, with spec chamber for ammo with long bullets.The eg Lapua 105 and 109 are longer bullets with high BCs. The rest of the story is on 6MM Br link.

Exactly my point. It isn't some wildcat round that only three 90 yr old fudds load for.

also something I find odd....all the data in the books I have, none show load data for 105gr bullets in any 6mm cal. (except for 6x47 lapua in the hodgdons magazine). That seems to be one of the more popular weight bullets yet no data in any of the books.


If Hodgdon's dang site wouldn't do this it wouldn't be a big deal but things like this are why books are still needed.

 

[jetjock07]

It will all be ok. Take a deep breath and have yourself a drink…

 

[cas6969]

I have a Nosler book.....it has 6BR Remington & 6mm Remington listed as two different things. So clearly they are diff.

Now I'm confused or missing something. Or not.

https://www.6mmbr.com/cartridgeguides.html

 

[tinker]

View attachment 8379195

Now I'm confused or missing something.

My point was 6br and 6 remington are not the same. Since 6br rem and 6br norma are actually the same now they should drop the remington from it to stop some of the confusion.

 

[ma smith]

Modern 6BR is "Norma" revision, see note below.

https://bobp.cip-bobp.org/uploads/tdcc/tab-i/tabical-en-page12.pdf

6mm BR Remington

In 1978 Remington started manufacturing their Remington 40-X rifle in the 6mm BR and named their version of the cartridge the 6mm Bench Rest Remington.[11] By 1988 Remington was also manufacturing ammunition.[12] Remington continues to offer the 6mm BR Remington in the 40-X series rifles.[13] The Remington version of this cartridge is now considered to be obsolete.[12]

6mm Norma BR

In 1996 Norma of Sweden introduced the 6mm Norma BR which was dimensionally similar to the 6mm BR Remington.[14] However the chamber of the Norma version provided a longer throat making allowances for the seating of very low drag (VLD) bullets.[12] It was designed from the beginning to optimize accuracy, barrel life, and case capacity in a 6 mm cartridge for 300–600 metres (328–656 yd) target shooting. As such it couples a sensible case volume (2.45 ml) to bore area (29.52 mm2/0.2952 cm2) ratio with ample space for loading relatively long slender projectiles that can provide good aerodynamic efficiency and external ballistic performance for the projectile diameter.[14] This is the most common variation of the cartridge used today.[15]

The 6mm Norma BR has become a popular chambering in match rifles used in 300 metres (328 yd) ISSF and CISM and other 300 metres rifle disciplines.[16][17]

 

[tinker]

It will all be ok. Take a deep breath and have yourself a drink…

After this week I need one. Kids are in bed. Wife is out of town for a week to go to a funeral. time to relax....but I have to take the kids with me to work all freaking day tomorrow. They are 8 & 12....they are going to be really bored.

 

[jetjock07]

After this week I need one. Kids are in bed. Wife is out of town for a week to go to a funeral. time to relax....but I have to take the kids with me to work all freaking day tomorrow. They are 8 & 12....they are going to be really bored.

That blows. I feel ya though. 10 & 13 for me

 

[jetjock07]

After this week I need one. Kids are in bed. Wife is out of town for a week to go to a funeral. time to relax....but I have to take the kids with me to work all freaking day tomorrow. They are 8 & 12....they are going to be really bored.

im waiting for June when I have an entire week to myself. Lol

 

[tinker]

That blows. I feel ya though. 10 & 13 for me

10:30 in the morning until about 9pm.....it's going to suck for them. Plus my son has to miss kickboxing and daughter has to miss swim class. They are already not happy. They had to be there after school all day tonight.

Just sucks. My dies came in today (one set anyway) and bullets (105 berger VLD) and I wanted to start playing.....but I don't like doing it without a book to start with. Just feels weird using "other people's" data. I want to work up some ladder testing. With the cost of components (and trouble getting primers) It would be nice to have a starting point.

 

[jetjock07]

10:30 in the morning until about 9pm.....it's going to suck for them. Plus my son has to miss kickboxing and daughter has to miss swim class. They are already not happy. They had to be there after school all day tonight.

Just sucks. My dies came in today (one set anyway) and bullets (105 berger VLD) and I wanted to start playing.....but I don't like doing it without a book to start with. Just feels weird using "other people's" data. I want to work up some ladder testing. With the cost of components (and trouble getting primers) It would be nice to have a starting point.

Not sure what powder your using but around 30.0 of Varget for 105’s to 107’s is the easy ticket. May need to play with seating depth but should work well for you

 

[tinker]

im waiting for June when I have an entire week to myself. Lol

I get one week a year. Thanksgiving week is the only time I have off from work and we are all going on vacation together. We took our FIRST vacation ever last year on thanskgiving. Wife and I hadn't been on a vacation in 20 yrs of marriage.

Last saturday I went in late for the first time ever to shoot a match with my son. It was worth it but tons of work and putting out fires from people screwing up afterwards. I want to do it again next month. But so far can't get any help. the one friend I had help last sat has a birthday party for grandma so his wife said no.

 

[tinker]

Not sure what powder your using but around 30.0 of Varget for 105’s to 107’s is the easy ticket. May need to play with seating depth but should work well for you

I have read that. but would prefer to have a min charge and do a ladder for accuracy. I feel like I will miss nodes and waste time chasing with out a ladder test. I could do it in ten-twenty rounds.

 

[Thump_rrr]

I am getting more than a little frustrated.

I have a Nosler book.....it has 6BR Remington & 6mm Remington listed as two different things. So clearly they are diff. But it's loadings only go to 80gr bullets.

I bought the new Hodgden "Reloading Manual" which is really just a half assed magazine (but to be honest for 12 bucks I thought it was too good to be true to get an actual book for that price) and hodgdon's "reloading manual doesn't even list 6BR at all, not remington or norma.

So I went to Hodgdon's site......for an hour it's has been loading the page (refreshed a bunch or times).

But I ordered RCBS Dies and found out afterwards they were remington not norma. So I ordered Redding....they show up and say remington on the box (which I learned in another thread anyway. But it turns out they are the same.

Why can't people just pick ONE freaking name and be done?

I have read what other people use for loads but I would rather look in a book and start there.....I guess these teenie boppers are just heck bent on killing paper books. Next I bet they will want us to pay to stream reloading data.

So does anyone know of an actual reference material to see load data for 6BR?

I have some Berger 105s to try out and no where to find data.

There is a website of the same name with tons of info.
There is also tons of stickys at the top of this forum for every caliber under the sun including 6BR.
Most people on this site have 1-7" to 1-8" twist barrels which have enough twist and a long enough throat to run the 105's.
I on the other hand have a 1-10" twist which can't stabilize a 105.

 

[tinker]

There is a website of the same name with tons of info.
There is also tons of stickys at the top of this forum for every caliber under the sun including 6BR.
Most people on this site have 1-7" to 1-8" twist barrels which have enough twist and a long enough throat to run the 105's.
I on the other hand have a 1-10" twist which can't stabilize a 105.

why didn't I think of that

 

[TheOfficeT-Rex]

The names are confusing at first, until you look at the history of the cartridge and then it makes sense to change the name as critical aspects change. It's akin to 223 and 556.

The hodgdon and Vihtavouri sites have 6BR norma data, and if it has to be a book, the berger book has BR norma data.

 

[tinker]

The names are confusing at first, until you look at the history of the cartridge and then it makes sense to change the name as critical aspects change. It's akin to 223 and 556.

The hodgdon and Vihtavouri sites have 6BR norma data, and if it has to be a book, the berger book has BR norma data.

Yeah I was expecting too much. Trying to do a match next month on the 20th (if I can go).

But I not going to be able to have this gun ready if I have to order another dang book. Wait a week or more for it to get here then still do ladder testing and on and on.

Might just stick to my 6.5 CM that I can't hit crap with

 

[tinker]

The names are confusing at first, until you look at the history of the cartridge and then it makes sense to change the name as critical aspects change. It's akin to 223 and 556.

The hodgdon and Vihtavouri sites have 6BR norma data, and if it has to be a book, the berger book has BR norma data.

hodgdons site is not working for some reason but I honestly did forget about that VV. I have yet to try there powder but just bought 2 8 pounders of varget to try this 6br stuff out.

But thank you I will check the VV site.

 

[tinker]

Ok....I'm having one more drink and going to bed. The VV site only lists their powder (which I totally get). Maybe tomorrow Hodgdons site will work.

 

[Tokay444]

My point was 6br and 6 remington are not the same. Since 6br rem and 6br norma are actually the same now they should drop the remington from it to stop some of the confusion.

They’re not the same.

 

[Tokay444]

I have read that. but would prefer to have a min charge and do a ladder for accuracy. I feel like I will miss nodes and waste time chasing with out a ladder test. I could do it in ten-twenty rounds.

If you want to do it the hard way, pick a different cartridge. This is literally the easy button with an easy button recipe. It’s practically carved in stone. Lol@nodes

 

[Tokay444]

Yeah I was expecting too much. Trying to do a match next month on the 20th (if I can go).

But I not going to be able to have this gun ready if I have to order another dang book. Wait a week or more for it to get here then still do ladder testing and on and on.

Might just stick to my 6.5 CM that I can't hit crap with

Well, you don’t have to. You want to. All the info is hear, but you WANT a book.

 

[ma smith]

Yeah I was expecting too much. Trying to do a match next month on the 20th (if I can go).

But I not going to be able to have this gun ready if I have to order another dang book. Wait a week or more for it to get here then still do ladder testing and on and on.

Might just stick to my 6.5 CM that I can't hit crap with

OP, you're not missing out much...eg here's Berger book pages

The online reference, below, is arguably better overall with more info.
>https://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/6mmbr/

 

[jetjock07]

I have read that. but would prefer to have a min charge and do a ladder for accuracy. I feel like I will miss nodes and waste time chasing with out a ladder test. I could do it in ten-twenty rounds.

I understand having a book. Start 1.2 grains below 30.0 and go .2 to .4 above that for ladder test. Example 28.8 to 30.4. I guarantee you’ll have a node with Varget in that range. .020-.040 off lands and you’ll be golden.

 

[Huskydriver]

You spelled 6 dasher wrong

 

[45-90]

Cause there were and are different variations on the 6 br., long chamber throat short chamber. One was light bullets for short range benchrest, the other for 105 grs and LR shooting.

 

[Haney]

I u sweat and having a book. Start 1.2 grains below 30.0 and go .2 to .4 above that for ladder test. Example 28.8 to 30.4. I guarantee you’ll have a node with Varget in that range. .020-.040 off lands and you’ll be golden.

+1 on this , sound advice .

 

[tinker]

They’re not the same.

actually they are. You got to get with the times. They USED to be different.

 

[Tokay444]

actually they are. You got to get with the times. They USED to be different.

They’re not the same.

 

[tinker]

If you want to do it the hard way, pick a different cartridge. This is literally the easy button with an easy button recipe. It’s practically carved in stone. Lol@nodes

You can call it the hard way. But you NEVER use someone else's load. You always start at the min and work up.

 

[Tokay444]

You can call it the hard way. But you NEVER use someone else's load. You always start at the min and work up.

The load in the book was someone else’s.

 

[tinker]

Well, you don’t have to. You want to. All the info is hear, but you WANT a book.

I have yet to find even a single instance of load data online anywhere for 6BR w/ varget with berger 105s.

Yes there are other people's recipe. But as I have stated that is not load data. you can take chances. I won't.

 

[Tokay444]

I have yet to find even a single instance of load data online anywhere for 6BR w/ varget with berger 105s.

Yes there are other people's recipe. But as I have stated that is not load data. you can take chances. I won't.

It’s 100% vetted at this point. I took no chances. It just works.

 

[tinker]

OP, you're not missing out much...eg here's Berger book pages

The online reference, below, is arguably better overall with more info.
>https://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/6mmbr/

View attachment 8379214

That really sucks the berger book only shows load data for 60gr.

And I have seen that page on accurate shooter, but it only lists the load that person found they like.
I was trying to find min and max.

One big thing that no one has touched on is brass. I bought a bunch of alpha and after researching it a little bit, I found out that it doesn't show signs of pressure like traditional brass and for some reason you have to start with a lighter load with Alpha brass. So using Alpha I cold easily have an over pressure situation and there will be no pressure signs until it's too late.

 

[Tokay444]

That really sucks the berger book only shows load data for 60gr.

And I have seen that page on accurate shooter, but it only lists the load that person found they like.
I was trying to find min and max.

One big thing that no one has touched on is brass. I bought a bunch of alpha and after researching it a little bit, I found out that it doesn't show signs of pressure like traditional brass and for some reason you have to start with a lighter load with Alpha brass. So using Alpha I cold easily have an over pressure situation and there will be no pressure signs until it's too late.

Not with 30 grains of Varget.

 

[Haney]

Berger lists 14 powders used with their 105s . Varget starts at 26.5 . Brass type not listed .

 

[ma smith]

WARNING: ALWAYS start 10% below these loads and work up. NEVER assume pressures will be safe if you change ANY component.

Pretty sure Berger's book has varget+105 hybrid, but is (c) 2012...
arguably invalid for Alpha brass...(since it predates the headstamp)

 

[tinker]

Berger lists 14 powders used with their 105s . Varget starts at 26.5 . Brass type not listed .

Can I ask where you got that info? I checked bergers site last night and it showed a few diff cal but it was just a sample that looked like an example of what is in the book.

But I do appreciate it. At least I can have a starting point. That was all I was really looking for was a starting point.
Half the fun is working the load up. People who just use other people's finished recipe must be the same ones that just watch the last five mins of a movie to see how it ends and call watching the whole thing the hard way LOL

Hodgdon's data section of their site still appears to be down.

 

[Tokay444]

People who pick 6BR because they want to “work up a load” must the the same people who compete in the special Olympics, and still don’t win.

 

[TheOfficeT-Rex]

actually they are. You got to get with the times. They USED to be different.

No. They are different throats and build pressure differently. They are named differently so that you don’t go sticking a load for a Norma chamber into a rem chamber and building excess pressure.

The dies are the same.

You’re making a mountain out of a molehill. If it bothers you this much, stay away from any of the wildcat variants.

 

[Haney]

Can I ask where you got that info? I checked bergers site last night and it showed a few diff cal but it was just a sample that looked like an example of what is in the book.

The Berger book, 1st edition . They list 29.4 as max . 30 grains plus/minus is very popular in real life .

 

[tinker]

Pretty sure Berger's book has varget+105 hybrid, but is (c) 2012...
arguably invalid for Alpha brass...(since it predates the headstamp)

Just ordered the Berger book.

At least having min starting point will be better.

This video just really reminded me to start with min.

 

[ma smith]

30 grains plus/minus is very popular in real life .

yep

 

[tinker]

yep


View attachment 8379405

It will be interesting to see if the OCD brass has any difference or none at all.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

That really sucks the berger book only shows load data for 60gr.

And I have seen that page on accurate shooter, but it only lists the load that person found they like.
I was trying to find min and max.

One big thing that no one has touched on is brass. I bought a bunch of alpha and after researching it a little bit, I found out that it doesn't show signs of pressure like traditional brass and for some reason you have to start with a lighter load with Alpha brass. So using Alpha I cold easily have an over pressure situation and there will be no pressure signs until it's too late.

I'm using Alpha brass/CCI450 with Berger 105 Hybrid Targets and 29.8 Varget (2785fps) or Barnes 105 Matchburners and 31.0 CFE223 (similar velocity). Both bullets do best at .060" off the lands. My chamber is cut to the tighter end of SAAMI spec, and knowing now that my loads work best with a longer jump (in this barrel), I would have asked for .020-.030 more freebore. I got a few thousand Matchburners and two jugs of CFE223 cheap so I use these for practice loads. They do fine out to 1000. The Berger/Varget combo is slightly more accurate, but also much more expensive... Varget is $75-100 more for an 8-pound jug than CFE223 and Berger HT bullets have been harder to find as well as expensive so I save these for matches.

I've gone to Vihtavuori powder in my .223, but the N135 I have on hand is a little too fast for 105s in 6BR. I like the VV powders; relatively easy to find and much cheaper than Varget.

CFE223 is quite temperature sensitive and dirty, but it's everywhere, cheap, and the large amount of black nastiness cleans easily... but I won't buy any more of it if VV powders are available.
-------
I agree that primers don't crater/flatten much in my Alpha brass, but I start getting stiff bolt lift at 30.2 Varget (and the powder is compressed). Again, my rifle has a tight chamber and bullets are seated deeper than I'd like. Lesson learned for next barrel- but this one, with 1600 rounds on it, has far less fire cracking than my 6.5CM barrels showed at the same round count. So I expect this barrel to easily go 3000 rounds or more (all barrels are Bartlein).
-------
Wrt wanting a published manual: I get that. I've been reloading metallic cartridges for nearly 50 years, and I've seen people do some pretty stupid things (and mostly learned without serious injury). But also consider that many manuals are quite conservative, especially for older calibers. Hodgdon's max load for H4350 in 6.5CM is much less than the "standard" of 41ish grains with 140gr bullets (yeah, the site is still down). When I started loading 6BR with 105s at 10% under the "max" loads for my powders, I was getting some carbon blowby down below the case shoulder - clearly under pressure. With my loads settled now, and seeing the condition of the first 8 inches of barrel in front of the chamber at 1600 rounds, I can assure you that starting at 28ish grains of Varget is an entirely safe load assuming your rifle is in good condition.

Good luck.

 

[Buzzinga]

You won't find any load data in a book with Alpha brass. Pretty sure Lapua brass is all the books have data for. Which means you don't have any load data that is trustworthy--based on your criteria.

Which means you will have to either trust a book with Lapua brass data or trust the people online that have a track record of helping people on this site, have been shooting this caliber for years, some of us have had a half-dozen or more barrels spun up in 6BR over the years, have already performed many ladder tests and pressure tests with multiple powders, and are willing to share that info with you.

EDIT TO ADD: I've never had a batch of Lapua brass that didn't make it to 20 firings using 30 grains of Varget with 105/108/109.

 

[Baron23]