Why do democrats dislike the middle class?

[broncoaz]

My anger with democrats over 2A issue is their use of it as a scare tactic the same way the right has been using immigration as a scare tactic and then doing little to actually educate the electorate.

most democrat politicians can care less about gun control. hell look at where gun manufacturing takes place in this country and how many of them are in democratic strong holds like the North east and Illinois

I’ve complained for years that basic gun safety being taught in schools could save the lives of children who find a gun and do dumb shit. Unfortunately the left won’t stand for normalization of guns that they’ve been working to vilify for decades, it would undermine their scare tactics. As for dem politicians not caring, they spend an awful lot of time beating the Bloomberg gun control drum for people who don’t care. Manufacturing is moving out of democrat states, or those states are forcing gun manufacturers out of business because they consider it dirty money.

As a democrat I do have an issue this year. I can not stand trump. Havng drown up in NY ive watched this man in the news and on page 6 (do most americans know what page 6 refers too, not an insult its just a very regional thing) I think what he displays as confidence and a no bullshit approach is absolute bullshit and not what I would hope anyperson aspiring to the highest office on the planet would hope to act like. I feel it devalues and lowers the bar of what we should demand of our leaders as a whole. Unfortunately the pull of candidates on the left are weak and unappealing. I think Biden should have listened to Obama when he said " you don't need to do this joe" (translation don't do this Joe) I agree with Bernie on wages. Most republicans agree the stagnate wages have posed an issue. Henry Ford was piece of shit bigot and anti-Semite and generally not a good man but even he realized early that if he paid his people well there would not be turn over (benefit to the company) they would be more skilled 9benefit to the consumer) they would spend their money on his product (benefit to them and the company) and if he gave them time off they would spend and drive (benefit to them and the company)

Not liking Trump as a person is fine, not voting for his policies out of spite for the man is something else. The lefty media has done an excellent job of vilifying George W Bush (as an idiot) and now Trump. As I mentioned before, look past orange man bad and research the policies and vote accordingly. Had the media treated Obama with the same hatred as Trump they would be labeled terrible racists, but going after the white guy is fine. The democrats decided to impeach trump before Inauguration Day, and then did so with crappy facts, trying to justify their hatred for a person rather than policies.

Minimum wage has been steadily rising where I live, it’s up to $13 per hour now. Restaurants and small businesses are suffering and not hiring people where possible. Many are resorting to a 10-12% surcharge for labor to pay their employees (in addition to sales tax and expected 20% gratuity). We are seeing more automation with touch screen ordering systems, which reduces the number of jobs available. Minimum wage is a starting point, it’s not meant to be a living wage, raising it to be a living wage ($22 per hour according to Bloomberg) will not work. Walmart knows how much money their employees make, so as wages rise so will inflation, meaning that middle class purchasing power is decreased, which in turn will slow the economy and cost more jobs. I’d prefer to educate people in trades rather than free useless college so we can have a strong middle class workforce that can meet the needs of the country.

so back to 2A
how do I as a "lefty" reconcile this. My gun control (common sense if you will) extends to this. I am ok with a background check, as long as it is quick and accurate. I believe a person should be bared the opportunity to purchase a firearm 1. while they are currently under indictment of a violent crime, and 2. while they are on parole of a violent crime. If found not guilty, an once full rights are returned I think they should be allowed to purchase. The question of mental sanity is a little bit more difficult. If a person has been declared mentally unfit and is under the care of another individual then they too should not be allowed to purchase a firearm in the same way that their current legal state renders them unfit to make any decisions for themselves.
red flag laws are an issue, the ability to just call someone in an report them with out due process would be an issue as well and I can not support that. does that leave someone eventually suseptable to attack yes. but having freedom is a risk and its worth protecting freedom even if that means at time we have to take risks.

Unfortunately all gun control is death of a thousand cuts. Let’s assume that we passed universal background checks on all purchases to ensure mentally ill and criminals don’t buy guns. Unfortunately that “reasonable” legislation is just a stepping stone to the next thing. That background check system will be used to create a registry, which will be used for confiscation at some future date as the political winds change. Democrats like Bloomberg are seeking to ostracize gun owners as crazy nut bags who need to be watched and legislated against. Look at all of the places where they have tried to publish the CCW rolls for the “ safety of the community”, while violating privacy rights of law abiding gun owners.

If the Democrats think that reg flag laws are such a great idea, we should counter that they should be applied to other constitutional amendments. Maybe we use red flag laws based on social media posts against immigrant, or against people’s freedom of religion (specifically islam) or speech. They would lose their fucking minds, but for some reason 2A doesn’t count.

It’s up to each of us to determine who we will vote for, but not voting for a good set of policies that support most of your views because you dislike the candidate really is counterproductive. Not voting for the good policies is self defeating, so sitting home is as bad as voting for anti gun democrats.

 

[OldSalty]

@NY700, I wasnt necessarily asking who you would vote for. I was asking what policies/ideas are worth sacrificing/compromising for 2A. You typed alot or words but didnt really answer the question.

Secondly, if the ME has taught you anything its that modern armies have somewhat limited success in prolonged wars of attrition against non-uniformed combatants. An armed citizenry can still absolutely defend themselves against the modern military. Unless you are like Eric Swalwell and will just nuke the citizenry or go scortched earth.

There really isnt much to debate about 2A. You can hem-haw on the exact words used in the COTUS if you choose but there are AMPLE resources written by the founders that explain. Ill take their word for it over some youtuber Joe.

Democrats absolutely want to disarm the citizenry...are you not hearing their own words?

We already have NCIS background checks as part of common sense gun laws. If you are a felon then you cant legally own/purchase a firearm. You have bought firearms, correct? Then you know all this already and what the requirements are to legally purchase. And you do realize criminals do not follow law, right?

 

[OldSalty]

Social justice warrior - A term conservatives use to make fun of those who are willing to fight for someone else's rights.

Billie Joe, please expand on this statement.

Having traveled all over this great country over the past 30 years I can assure you that there are bigots along the entire political spectrum.

What you really want is equality of outcome not equality of opportunity. That is the core of the issue.

Its weird because growing up (in my generation) we were taught about not judging by the color of skin, but content of character. But that today is blasphemy to the SJW, where identity is ONLY defined by your inherent traits for which none of us have control of.

 

[quietmike]

For the claims of increased taxation helping with education (or anything else)...

Funding for education has increased exponentially, yet where are the results?

Increasing Education Spending Does Not Equal Higher Test Scores - American Legislative Exchange Council

Over the last four decades, education spending has steadily increased in the United States, yet schools are not delivering the return on investment students and families deserve. The total cost to educate a student from kindergarten through high school graduation has nearly tripled from $56,903...

www.alec.org

 

[quietmike]

@NY700

I don't know if you're old enough to remember, but when government was in charge of telecommunications, we had black rotary dial phones that were heavy enough to be a weapon. When ma bell was deregulated, phone technology increased exponentially, to the modern wonders many of us are typing on today.

One of the claims of the left is that government should be in charge of (insert activity of choice) because government has no profit motive like a private business.
While true, because of this, government also has no incentive to put out a quality product at a low price.

 

[wade2big]

republicans as a party can not stop immigration because the businesses that support the party need the immigrants.
as I mentioned earlier I live in Dallas. the growth here over the last 20 years is incredible. And it is all on the backs of immigrants.

Businesses do not need immigration. They need people period. It can and should be born and raised US citizens and not illegals who come here and pop out a child every year for 10 years who raise them using US tax dollars.

The democrat party is telling white people to not have kids because of the environmental impacts. The ones who don’t pay any mind to that and want to have large families can’t afford to do so. They are priced out by design. The vermin in this country, legal or illegal, don’t care as they don’t even have to pay to raise their litters.

The government should focus on bringing costs down for the working class. A mother should be able to stay home and raise the children while the father makes enough money for them all. Unfortunately this is exactly what the people in charge don’t want to happen.

 

[camotoe]

You do realize the middle class no longer exists in America right.

 

[quietmike]

You do realize the middle class no longer exists in America right.

Fooled me. I'm not poor, and certainly not rich.....

 

[OldSalty]

You do realize the middle class no longer exists in America right.

Go on....

 

[broncoaz]

You do realize the middle class no longer exists in America right.

I think the definition of the middle class has changed and nobody told the rest of us. Middle class used to mean a decent home, two decent cars, a couple of kids, and a comfortable life with a small pension in retirement. You couldn’t do everything you wanted, but you could certainly do some of the things you wanted like an annual family vacation. I honestly don’t know how my parents did it with two boys on what they made. They retired with two pensions (private, so about 35% of their former salaries) SS and Medicare benefits and two houses, not something my generation can look forward to pension wise.

My wife and I both work professional level jobs, have no kids, and have little debt (15 year mortgage and a single car payment). We make more than what the numbers show as the top of middle class range for our area, but we consider ourselves middle class. We live in an expensive town, median house price is $440K. We generally have enough money to do what we need to do plus some extra for fun, but we aren’t rolling in it. We aren’t in a position to take lavish vacations regularly, nor can we afford to have two $1000 car payments while still investing 15% of our income into retirement. If we were forced to tighten the belt we could live (get by) on one income, but the retirement funding would get cut back to make the numbers work.

Corporations ditched the pension systems and now we’re on our own. This means you need to make 20% more to fund 15% into a Roth 401K. Add onto that their shifting the healthcare costs onto the employees and I need to earn another 8% to pay for that. We make enough to make it all work, but that’s 28% of our gross going to things that were previously covered. I can’t blame corporations for catering to the shareholders and max profits, but the democrats do have a point about CEO salaries compared to the worker salaries. I don’t think their idea of taxing the rich to death or forcing businesses to do certain things is the right path, but there is an inequality compared to 30+ years ago. I like the idea of a flat tax equally applied to all citizens, it seems the most fair since everyone would have some skin in the game.

Too many people in the “middle class” aren’t saving anything for retirement (or anything at all, living paycheck to paycheck) they will be completely dependent on SS and other entitlement programs. They have to have the latest IPhone annually, and a bunch of shit they don’t really need but they think will make them happy. Dave Ramsey’s program (minus the religion) should be required for all high school students, but that would hurt the funding for too many liberal colleges.

The most disgusting proposals I’ve seen involve redistribution of wealth by federalizing private citizen’s 401K’s for the sake of saving SS for those who never saved a dime. I think that would be the final straw for the bigaloo, so they would have to disarm the populace first.

This article is from 2008, but still worth a read.

Dems Target Private Retirement Accounts

RALEIGH — Democrats in the U.S. House have been conducting hearings on proposals to confiscate workers’ personal retirement accounts — including 401(k)s and IRAs — and convert them to accounts managed by the Social Security Administration.

www.carolinajournal.com

 

[wade2big]

snip...
I can’t blame corporations for catering to the shareholders and max profits, but the democrats do have a point about CEO salaries compared to the worker salaries.
Snip...

Walmart ceo makes 22.8 million a year. Walmart employs 2.2 million people worldwide. That means if the ceo of Walmart decided he would give his whole salary to the employees as a bonus for the year, employees would receive a bonus check of a whopping $10.37 each. That could almost buy them lunch. Almost. Please do not let the Democrats fool you again. They count on people not actually applying reason and logic.

Besides that, I agree with much of what you said as you made some good points.

 

[lonegunman762x51]

republicans as a party can not stop immigration because the businesses that support the party need the immigrants.
as I mentioned earlier I live in Dallas. the growth here over the last 20 years is incredible. And it is all on the backs of immigrants.

This is a fine example of the diminished thought capacity of the typical leftist. I have never figured out why the typical commie like our friend NY700 has the complete inability to distinguish between the terms "Legal" and "Illegal". What is it about the underdeveloped brain of the leftist that stops the commie from ever developing an understanding of the words "right" and "wrong".


For instance: Failing to legally immigrate to a country by applying for a visa and crossing the border at a designated port of entry is a crime in EVERY country on EARTH. Every country on EARTH, includes the United States of America. Republicans believe we developed the nations immigration laws over the last 245 years or so to control access to our nation and keep undesirables out. Undesirables being people with diseases, mental defects, criminal records, terrorists, insurgents, anarchists, covert military operatives from enemy states, drug traffickers, human traffickers, dangerous religious zealots, the generally illiterate and worthless. I think as a nation we have the right to select who can join our exclusive club.

Signed into law by a Democrat, Lyndon Johnson; Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965, which prohibits non-nationals from entering or attempting to enter the United States at any time or place which has not been designated by an immigration officer, and also prohibits non-nationals from eluding inspection by immigration officers.

Given the above paragraph, it would be correct to believe Republicans do not want the wrong people entering America. A key indicator of the "wrong people" would be the refusal to purchase a $175 dollar visa and the willingness to pay a human trafficker $5,000 or more to sneak you into America. Unfortunately NY700 in typical leftist fashion equates illegal immigration with legal immigration because of his complete inability to equate crime with criminals. This also explains why he wants to ban guns from law abiding people.

I can assure you the that the growth of Dallas is more a relation to the 1,000 Americans who move to the state of Texas every damned day than it is an incredible growth spurt based on illegal immigration. I can also say, it is another shining example of leftists distorted world view.

Here is the best part. There are currently 70 nations with Communist/Socialist governments NY700 can easily immigrate to if he so chooses. They have all of his ideals, free medical, free housing, free shit everywhere, everyone is equal. Why is he here? Moving to Russia is a snap, simply learn the language and live there for five years. Visas are gladly extended if you work for a Russian company.

 

[MadDuner]

I am glad the leftist plan to attack our retirement accounts fell through back in 2008. They can’t pull that kind of bs off until they disarm the public.

 

[broncoaz]

I am glad the leftist plan to attack our retirement accounts fell through back in 2008. They can’t pull that kind of bs off until they disarm the public.

If they were thinking about it then you can be sure they are still thinking about it now. Some articles I’ve been reading suggest SS will be insolvent by 2035, about 8 years before I plan on collecting at age 67. If nothing has been done by 2035 to increase the longevity of the system I’m sure we’ll see plenty of attempts to raid private retirement accounts.

 

[quietmike]

@NY700

Can you name anything the democrat party, or any faction of leftism, offers that isn't based on avoiding personal responsibility and/or getting free stuff?

 

[broncoaz]

Walmart ceo makes 22.8 million a year. Walmart employs 2.2 million people worldwide. That means if the ceo of Walmart decided he would give his whole salary to the employees as a bonus for the year, employees would receive a bonus check of a whopping $10.37 each. That could almost buy them lunch. Almost. Please do not let the Democrats fool you again. They count on people not actually applying reason and logic.

Besides that, I agree with much of what you said as you made some good points.

I don’t think it’s a fallacy to point out how fast the salaries of CEO’s have increased while the worker’s income hasn’t. I haven’t researched the issue to look for a cause. I agree with you that the average worker won’t benefit from the $10.37, nor do I think giving it to them is any kind of solution.

Unfortunately the economy is no longer supplying middle class manufacturing jobs of decades ago. Offshoring labor in search of greater profits makes sense, but it changed the ability of regular people finding a good job without a college education. We need to reevaluate what a middle class should actually be going forward and how we can grow our economy to get people there with hard work rather than a handout. I support equal opportunities for all, but not a rigged system trying to correct social injustices from decades ago.

 

[MadDuner]

If they were thinking about it then you can be sure they are still thinking about it now. Some articles I’ve been reading suggest SS will be insolvent by 2035, about 8 years before I plan on collecting at age 67. If nothing has been done by 2035 to increase the longevity of the system I’m sure we’ll see plenty of attempts to raid private retirement accounts.

I can’t see our present form of government lasting 15 more years.
Once the takers out strip the makers ability to pay, it’ll all come to a head then.
I most likely will be dead by then.
The “youngsters” will have to harden up at that point, because life will become way more difficult than they ever imagined.

 

[quietmike]

I don’t think it’s a fallacy to point out how fast the salaries of CEO’s have increased while the worker’s income hasn’t. I haven’t researched the issue to look for a cause. I agree with you that the average worker won’t benefit from the $10.37, nor do I think giving it to them is any kind of solution.

Unfortunately the economy is no longer supplying middle class manufacturing jobs of decades ago, so we need to reevaluate what a middle class should actually be going forward and how we can grow our economy to get people there with hard work rather than a handout. I support equal opportunities for all, but not a rigged system trying to correct social injustices from decades ago.

Pull up an inflation calculator and see what the value of a 1960 dollar is today. $8.72 or almost 800% inflation. What causes the inflation. Printing phoney money to cover deficit spending, quantitative easing, and other nonsense.

 

[MadDuner]

I don’t think it’s a fallacy to point out how fast the salaries of CEO’s have increased while the worker’s income hasn’t. I haven’t researched the issue to look for a cause. I agree with you that the average worker won’t benefit from the $10.37, nor do I think giving it to them is any kind of solution.

Unfortunately the economy is no longer supplying middle class manufacturing jobs of decades ago, so we need to reevaluate what a middle class should actually be going forward and how we can grow our economy to get people there with hard work rather than a handout. I support equal opportunities for all, but not a rigged system trying to correct social injustices from decades ago.

My little pissant of a company managed to increase staffing and production of manufactured goods by 500% as a direct result of tariffs. Manufacturing jobs can and will return if we can stay the course. If China is going to basically be forced to shutter their manufacturing because of their self-inflicted bio weapon - companies here in the USA should be working feverishly to fill the void that’s coming. It can come back, but not if Government gets back in the way as an obstacle like they have been in the past. 4 more years of Trump could really be surprising to the idiots that very publicly stated that “those jobs are never coming back”. Just like our oil production that now has us self-sustained. It can happen. It just takes a true leader to help it along.

 

[camotoe]

Pull up an inflation calculator and see what the value of a 1960 dollar is today. $8.72 or almost 800% inflation. What causes the inflation. Printing phoney money to cover deficit spending, quantitative easing, and other nonsense.

When they crash the greenback and they will. You can knock 6 7 8 zeros off your savings. Ss. 401k.

So how middle class are you.

They rob you through inflation, while giving you bread and circus.

On a phone no typing long winded shit

 

[camotoe]

3 classes.

The lazy class

The blue collar working class. Color me here.

The uber rich.

 

[brianf]

Walmart ceo makes 22.8 million a year. Walmart employs 2.2 million people worldwide. That means if the ceo of Walmart decided he would give his whole salary to the employees as a bonus for the year, employees would receive a bonus check of a whopping $10.37 each. That could almost buy them lunch. Almost. Please do not let the Democrats fool you again. They count on people not actually applying reason and logic.

Besides that, I agree with much of what you said as you made some good points.

the funny part is that does anyone really know what a COO does, especially in a company the size of Walmart or Toyota etc.

if they dont believe that that person is worth 22 million compared to the stock boy making 12$ a hour they are confused.

When they say that the company lost money that year and the COO got a bonus...get out the noose...how about if he made the right decision during a world wide recession that his company only dropped 5% not the 25%....he should get fired?

back to the middle class...middle class has to be re-redefined like suggested.

middle class meant you had a "station" car to go top work but worked on it and changed your oil and possibly a nice "family" car, you mowed your own grass and your yearly vacation was taking the station wagon to florida.

middle class was not 2 cars on lease with 2 new iphones for your kids.

 

[quietmike]

When they crash the greenback and they will. You can knock 6 7 8 zeros off your savings. Ss. 401k.

So how middle class are you.

They rob you through inflation, while giving you bread and circus.

On a phone no typing long winded shit

Katrina and other smaller catastrophes should have taught us tangible goods are an excellent investment. You can't eat gold or silver, but galena is a valuable precious metal.

 

[lonegunman762x51]

On July 4, 1826, the 50th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, Owen issued his own variation, what he called the "Declaration of Mental Independence." From that day forward, Owen proclaimed, men would be free from what he called a "trinity of the most monstrous evils that could be combined to inflict mental and physical evil upon the whole race ... I refer to private property, absurd and irrational systems of religion and marriage founded upon individual property."

The quest to do away with private property would animate the philosophy of socialism for the next 150 years.

Intellectuals were drawn to Owen and the promise of New Harmony, but managing the community's resources without individual ownership proved highly inefficient. One New Harmony member wrote that "even salads were deposited in the store to be handed out, making 10,000 unnecessary steps [and] causing them to come to the tables in a wilted, deadened state."

"In the end, I think one of the problems in New Harmony was that it was a big group of idealists in one place -- in a very isolated place," says Connie Weinzapfel, longtime director of the Historic New Harmony site. "They spent a lot of time thinking about the idea of a perfect community. Ultimately you had a lot of thinkers and not enough doers."

After two years, several re-organizations, and seven different constitutions, Owen's great experiment collapsed.

"Owen had a very hard time acknowledging that there was a failure at New Harmony," says Joshua Muravchik, author of the 2003 book "Heaven on Earth: The Rise and Fall of Socialism." "And through a period of many months when everyone around him, including his sons, was saying, 'Things are falling apart,' Owen was saying, 'Things are going great here.'

"But eventually, he couldn't keep up that pretense any longer because everyone was leaving," Muravchik adds. "And so Owen found a kind of alibi, I think, in blaming the people who came to New Harmony as being poor human material for his experiment."

Owen's son, Robert Dale Owen, stayed at New Harmony after its collapse and went on to serve two terms in Congress. He had a different assessment of his father's experiment, writing: "All cooperative schemes which provide equal remuneration to the skilled and industrious and the ignorant and idle must work their own downfall. For by this unjust plan they must of necessity eliminate the valuable members and retain only the improvident, unskilled and vicious."

New Harmony: America's failed 19th-century socialist experiment

The history of socialism in America did not begin with Bernie Sanders or Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.

www.foxnews.com

This is a perfect example of why socialism sucks.

 

[NY700]

@NY700

Can you name anything the democrat party, or any faction of leftism, offers that isn't based on avoiding personal responsibility and/or getting free stuff?

Quiet mike I don’t think it’s about avoiding

and this obviously goes to the heart of the divide. Let’s take what’s going on with the coronavirus but for this instance we will just talk flu.

like 6-8% of American adults get the flu. It places a huge burden of the countries infrastructure. People get sick they don’t work it costs companies billions a year in productivity. Consumers don’t get things lines are longer (it’s almost as destructive to productivity as March madness)

If everyone had access to healthcare. And please understand it’s not like flipping a switch it would take a generation or two to change the mindset of how one uses the healthcare system. But people would get flu shots, the hope is they would generally be healthier which makes them less likely to get it. It means when they do they will go to a PCP instead of an ER and run up a huge bill that won’t get paid but passed on to you and me.

there was a time where fire departments were a contracted service. If you want protection you paid for it. Now we see the asset it is to share the expense and have universal protection when needed. Same for the police. Neither program is perfect but both are beneficial vs strictly being a paid arm of the Uber elite

my employer pays our healthcare. $0 cost to the employee. There is a cost to cover spouse and family. I asked him why he was willing to pay it entirely. His response. It wasn’t that expensive, it means workers will be out less and he felt it was his duty as an employer. He employs about 100 people in my office

 

[NY700]

Businesses do not need immigration. They need people period. It can and should be born and raised US citizens and not illegals who come here and pop out a child every year for 10 years who raise them using US tax dollars.

The democrat party is telling white people to not have kids because of the environmental impacts. The ones who don’t pay any mind to that and want to have large families can’t afford to do so. They are priced out by design. The vermin in this country, legal or illegal, don’t care as they don’t even have to pay to raise their litters.

The government should focus on bringing costs down for the working class. A mother should be able to stay home and raise the children while the father makes enough money for them all. Unfortunately this is exactly what the people in charge don’t want to happen.

that’s not functionally correct. Please show me an actual Democratic ad that tells people not to have kids.

take a look at the DINKs they are not having kids because it’s expensive, be cause of duel income households where both people work 40-70hr. My best friend live in San Fran and while at google he said the average person was there almost 80 hours a week. The company provided Meals, dry cleaning entertainment it wasn’t to be nice. It is basically modern slavery with a twist. If I take care of your other necessities you won’t notice that your hear working as much as you are. This works especially well when the jobhas a creative aspect to it since you don’t know when creativity will hit

 

[NY700]

@NY700

I don't know if you're old enough to remember, but when government was in charge of telecommunications, we had black rotary dial phones that were heavy enough to be a weapon. When ma bell was deregulated, phone technology increased exponentially, to the modern wonders many of us are typing on today.

One of the claims of the left is that government should be in charge of (insert activity of choice) because government has no profit motive like a private business.
While true, because of this, government also has no incentive to put out a quality product at a low price.

great question. Will have to touch on it later. Takingmy father to the range for his first outing with his very own pistol

 

[wade2big]

Quiet mike I don’t think it’s about avoiding

and this obviously goes to the heart of the divide. Let’s take what’s going on with the coronavirus but for this instance we will just talk flu.

like 6-8% of American adults get the flu. It places a huge burden of the countries infrastructure. People get sick they don’t work it costs companies billions a year in productivity. Consumers don’t get things lines are longer (it’s almost as destructive to productivity as March madness)

If everyone had access to healthcare. And please understand it’s not like flipping a switch it would take a generation or two to change the mindset of how one uses the healthcare system. But people would get flu shots, the hope is they would generally be healthier which makes them less likely to get it. It means when they do they will go to a PCP instead of an ER and run up a huge bill that won’t get paid but passed on to you and me.

there was a time where fire departments were a contracted service. If you want protection you paid for it. Now we see the asset it is to share the expense and have universal protection when needed. Same for the police. Neither program is perfect but both are beneficial vs strictly being a paid arm of the Uber elite

my employer pays our healthcare. $0 cost to the employee. There is a cost to cover spouse and family. I asked him why he was willing to pay it entirely. His response. It wasn’t that expensive, it means workers will be out less and he felt it was his duty as an employer. He employs about 100 people in my office

A flu shot is $10 at Walmart. Throw that example out.

Insurance is very expensive now because of the Democrats and Obamacare. My premiums were $285 per month for an individual paid family plan. $2500 deductible. Now my premiums are $1100 monthly with a $6500 deductible. I have no copays. When I go to the doctor I pay the $85 visit and it goes toward that deductible. Remember that $6500 I stated is per person for a max out of pocket of $13,000 for the year. This increase is to pay for people that don’t deserve my money. I work for it. They should too. If something came up in my own family, I am much less able to pay for it because of the huge amount that comes out of my check for social programs. It’s sick. If Jose dies I don’t care. If someone in my family or my friends are in need I do.

There were catastrophic plans pre obomacare. $10,000 deductible for a family and the plan was less than $200 a month. These plans are no more. My current plan is pretty much a catostraphic plan but at 900% increase in cost. Thanks democrats.

Democrats and there feel good policies destroy everything for the middle class. I despise the party and it’s people in its current state. I can not understand how a reasonable man can watch the debates and listen to what is being spewed out the candidates mouth and agree. I don’t see how a reasonable man can look at the democrat run cities and states and think that banning rights and freedoms of working class people and pandering to the scum of this earth is a good idea.

Your collectivism mindset is sickening. Your friend lives in San Francisco and can’t afford to live because of Democrat policies. Can you not understand this. Can you not see what over regulation and over taxation does to an area. You are the party that will only make things worse.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

If everyone had access to healthcare. And please understand it’s not like flipping a switch it would take a generation or two to change the mindset of how one uses the healthcare system. But people would get flu shots, the hope is they would generally be healthier which makes them less likely to get it. It means when they do they will go to a PCP instead of an ER and run up a huge bill that won’t get paid but passed on to you and me.

You do realize that with "universal health care" the bills that are now "passed on to you and me" are still passed on to you and me?

Getting a populace " generally healthier" is nothing but a dream. Looking at what kills more Americans in the country kinda makes your theory just that. A theory.
A fat and lazy lifestyle is what most of the medical expenses stem from. Giving free health care to zoo animals along with free housing and food is going to improve their health?
I bet you have a suitcase full of more funny shit.

I didn't expect much else from someone who already admitted to taking more than he inputs. So....

 

[wade2big]

that’s not functionally correct. Please show me an actual Democratic ad that tells people not to have kids.

take a look at the DINKs they are not having kids because it’s expensive, be cause of duel income households where both people work 40-70hr. My best friend live in San Fran and while at google he said the average person was there almost 80 hours a week. The company provided Meals, dry cleaning entertainment it wasn’t to be nice. It is basically modern slavery with a twist. If I take care of your other necessities you won’t notice that your hear working as much as you are. This works especially well when the jobhas a creative aspect to it since you don’t know when creativity will hit

If you get your information from propaganda ads you are in worse shape than I thought. Typical

It’s obvious. They are pricing the middle class out of existence while giving millions of illegals and unproductive citizens everythig for free. Shaquesha pays nothing for her 9 kids. She gets free housing and a free cellphone as well. Free healthcare. Might as well have number 10. Maria isn’t legal but has her 10 kids. Her 10 kids get wic, Medicade, and every other government program there is. All free. Tom and Kate barely make ends meet due to the high cost of living today (high taxes to pay for Shaquesha and Maria’s life, high cost of insurance post Obamacare, lower wages because of unrestricted immigration, etc) They have one kid. Would like another but understand they don’t qualify for anything because they “make too much”. You tell me this isn’t on purpose. People that make up their own mind and pay their own way are harder to control and are far less likely to vote Democrat.

 

[wade2big]

You do realize that with "universal health care" the bills that are now "passed on to you and me" are still passed on to you and me?

Getting a populace " generally healthier" is nothing but a dream. Looking at what kills more Americans in the country kinda makes your theory just that. A theory.
A fat and lazy lifestyle is what most of the medical expenses stem from. Giving free health care to zoo animals along with free housing and food is going to improve their health?
I bet you have a suitcase full of more funny shit.

I didn't expect much else from someone who already admitted to taking more than he inputs. So....

It’s collectivism. @NY700 is a commie. His logic is based on make believe. He would vote for AOC for president if he could. Probably a Bernie voter now. Disgusting.

 

[Aries256]

Democraps hate any of that refuse to be controlled.

 

[Rthur]

Quiet mike I don’t think it’s about avoiding

and this obviously goes to the heart of the divide. Let’s take what’s going on with the coronavirus but for this instance we will just talk flu.

like 6-8% of American adults get the flu. It places a huge burden of the countries infrastructure. People get sick they don’t work it costs companies billions a year in productivity. Consumers don’t get things lines are longer (it’s almost as destructive to productivity as March madness)

If everyone had access to healthcare. And please understand it’s not like flipping a switch it would take a generation or two to change the mindset of how one uses the healthcare system. But people would get flu shots, the hope is they would generally be healthier which makes them less likely to get it. It means when they do they will go to a PCP instead of an ER and run up a huge bill that won’t get paid but passed on to you and me.

there was a time where fire departments were a contracted service. If you want protection you paid for it. Now we see the asset it is to share the expense and have universal protection when needed. Same for the police. Neither program is perfect but both are beneficial vs strictly being a paid arm of the Uber elite

my employer pays our healthcare. $0 cost to the employee. There is a cost to cover spouse and family. I asked him why he was willing to pay it entirely. His response. It wasn’t that expensive, it means workers will be out less and he felt it was his duty as an employer. He employs about 100 people in my office

You are operating on the fallacy that folks that aren't good at life choices will some how
become responsible citizens once they have enough handouts.
Lolz, you think your employer is paying for your healthcare. You are paying it everyday with
your production while on the clock.
Here is a scenario that "universal healthcare" inevitably will lead to:
Once the system has full control they'll start instituting rules concerning
rationed healthcare for those who require more that their average subject.
As it collapses under the weight of overuse and fraud.
Many of the folks you think already benefit from "free" healthcare are scamming the system.
Visit any emergency waiting room during cold and flu season and see who is overloading it.
One question, name one government program that is under budget and successful?

R

 

[quietmike]

Quiet mike I don’t think it’s about avoiding

and this obviously goes to the heart of the divide. Let’s take what’s going on with the coronavirus but for this instance we will just talk flu.

like 6-8% of American adults get the flu. It places a huge burden of the countries infrastructure. People get sick they don’t work it costs companies billions a year in productivity. Consumers don’t get things lines are longer (it’s almost as destructive to productivity as March madness)

So your assertion is government paid healthcare would eliminate sickness???
That would be quite a feat.

If everyone had access to healthcare.

Everyone already has access to healthcare, the difference is who should pay the bill.

there was a time where fire departments were a contracted service. If you want protection you paid for it. Now we see the asset it is to share the expense and have universal protection when needed. Same for the police. Neither program is perfect but both are beneficial vs strictly being a paid arm of the Uber elite

I was in law enforcement for 15 years. The majority of calls we had, and calls for fire and EMS were in the lower income sections of the jurisdiction. If government housing were eliminated, the crime rate would probably fall by 60%.

my employer pays our healthcare. $0 cost to the employee. There is a cost to cover spouse and family. I asked him why he was willing to pay it entirely. His response. It wasn’t that expensive, it means workers will be out less and he felt it was his duty as an employer. He employs about 100 people in my office

Kudos to him for voluntarily doing that. But the difference between voluntary and force is the difference between a healthy adult relationship and a rape charge.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I think it begins with self hatred.

Some folks really don't admire what they see in their mirrors.

They take it out an whomever reminds them the most of themselves. The middle class is just the biggest bunch of such folks.

Part of it is also the foundation of The Big Lie.

They know they're full of it, and point their fingers at others in order to divert the attention off themselves.

Greg

 

[P-Squared]

Quiet mike I don’t think it’s about avoiding

and this obviously goes to the heart of the divide. Let’s take what’s going on with the coronavirus but for this instance we will just talk flu.

like 6-8% of American adults get the flu. It places a huge burden of the countries infrastructure. People get sick they don’t work it costs companies billions a year in productivity. Consumers don’t get things lines are longer (it’s almost as destructive to productivity as March madness)

If everyone had access to healthcare. And please understand it’s not like flipping a switch it would take a generation or two to change the mindset of how one uses the healthcare system. But people would get flu shots, the hope is they would generally be healthier which makes them less likely to get it. It means when they do they will go to a PCP instead of an ER and run up a huge bill that won’t get paid but passed on to you and me.

there was a time where fire departments were a contracted service. If you want protection you paid for it. Now we see the asset it is to share the expense and have universal protection when needed. Same for the police. Neither program is perfect but both are beneficial vs strictly being a paid arm of the Uber elite

my employer pays our healthcare. $0 cost to the employee. There is a cost to cover spouse and family. I asked him why he was willing to pay it entirely. His response. It wasn’t that expensive, it means workers will be out less and he felt it was his duty as an employer. He employs about 100 people in my office

@NY700 I'm calling BS on the 'It wasn't that expensive' and probably the rest of it. We paid 90% of the employee for the lowest tier plan and it cost a fortune. This year our rates went up 25% on the Platinum plan, only 18% on the Gold, but the deductible went up, and we had to drop the Silver and go to a Bronze. We really had no choice because of the increases. Even at 90% of the Bronze plan, we're paying out more this year than last.

I know, I'll just raise my prices to my customers to cover the difference. Only the government can get away with that poop.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

They print money, but they won't do business except by electronic transfer. We are living on bit and bytes.

 

[NY700]

I am glad the leftist plan to attack our retirement accounts fell through back in 2008. They can’t pull that kind of bs off until they disarm the public.

the republicans raided social security years ago

 

[NY700]

@NY700 I'm calling BS on the 'It wasn't that expensive' and probably the rest of it. We paid 90% of the employee for the lowest tier plan and it cost a fortune. This year our rates went up 25% on the Platinum plan, only 18% on the Gold, but the deductible went up, and we had to drop the Silver and go to a Bronze. We really had no choice because of the increases. Even at 90% of the Bronze plan, we're paying out more this year than last.

I know, I'll just raise my prices to my customers to cover the difference. Only the government can get away with that poop.

I’m sure it cost him a pretty penny
However what he got in return which was the ability to hire away a lot of top talent from competitors he felt was a very good trade off

 

[Threadcutter308]

the republicans raided social security years ago

The "Republicans" did it. That's rich.

 

[wade2big]

the republicans raided social security years ago

All social programs need to go. Phase them out. Every single one.

Where does my $22-$30,000 that I pay depending on the year in income tax, medicare, and medicaid get me. That doesn’t take into account the property tax, sales tax, and every other freaking tax I pay. If you cant make it in your own in this country, you aren’t trying and it would probably be better if you weren't around anyhow. It would be much easier for the common man to make ends meet if they didn’t have to pay for the bottom dwellers of this country. Its the Democrats way of buying votes. That along with other Democrat policies being destroyed would lower the cost of living for everyone.

If people want to help others great. Let them do it with their own money. More people probably would if they weren’t already paying out here ass. All these social programs do is enable people to live without personal responsibility.

 

[camotoe]

All social programs need to go. Phase them out. Every single one.

Where does my $22-$30,000 that I pay depending on the year in income tax, medicare, and medicaid get me. That doesn’t take into account the property tax, sales tax, and every other freaking tax I pay. If you cant make it in your own in this country, you aren’t trying and it would probably be better if you weren't around anyhow. It would be much easier for the common man to make ends meet if they didn’t have to pay for the bottom dwellers of this country. Its the Democrats way of buying votes. That along with other Democrat policies being destroyed would lower the cost of living for everyone. Its the Democrats way of buying votes at the real American’s expense. Fuck em

If people want to help others great. Let them do it with their own money. More people probably would if they weren’t already paying out here ass. All these social programs do is enable people to live without personal responsibility.

Corporate welfare accounts for well over 80% of the debt.

Welfare hand outs are about 5 to 6% of the debt.

Me I hate all of them. ?

 

[Snuby642]

One thing on this thread I agree with is we need another party.

My preference would be that it be moderately liberal, only slightly socialist and very atractive to the raibow coalition and also represent the welfare state well.

That would help split the dem vote so neither would win.

 

[wade2big]

Corporate welfare accounts for well over 80% of the debt.

Welfare hand outs are about 5 to 6% of the debt.

Me I hate all of them. ?

I didn’t check your numbers but I agree that welfare is welfare corporate, personal, or otherwise.

 

[quietmike]

I think it begins with self hatred.

Some folks really don't admire what they see in their mirrors.

They take it out an whomever reminds them the most of themselves. The middle class is just the biggest bunch of such folks.

Part of it is also the foundation of The Big Lie.

They know they're full of it, and point their fingers at others in order to divert the attention off themselves.

Greg

Bingo.
The best way to make lefties come out against something is to call it "big". Big oil, big pharma, big corporations, etc., as big is a subconscious reminder of the small and insignificant lefties feel inside.
That's also why lefties love protesting in big groups. Remember the "occupy wall street" silliness? No one could tell you what the end goal was, they were just happy to be part of the crowd.
This is also why lefties always look to government to solve any problem, low self esteem makes them terrified they won't be able to handle basic tasks.

 

[quietmike]

the republicans raided social security years ago

Social security was set up identically to any other ponzi scheme. As soon as the population taking out is larger than the group paying in, it will begain to fail.

 

[craigos]

The dems dont dislike the middle class. You are completely wrong. The dems like anyone who gives em a vote, and dislikes those that dont --- they are diminishers, divisionists, closed mind set morons.

 

[quietmike]

Corporate welfare accounts for well over 80% of the debt.

Welfare hand outs are about 5 to 6% of the debt.

Me I hate all of them. ?

I think this displays a fundamental misunderstanding of economics.
"Corporate welfare" is letting people keep their own money. If that is the cause of the debt, then are employers responsible when their employees file bankruptcy?
Overspending is the cause of debt in all cases. The treasury has an increase in revenue collections nearly every year, but government always wants to spend even more every year.

 

[camotoe]

I think this displays a fundamental misunderstanding of economics.
"Corporate welfare" is letting people keep their own money. If that is the cause of the debt, then are employers responsible when their employees file bankruptcy?
Overspending is the cause of debt in all cases. The treasury has an increase in revenue collections nearly every year, but government always wants to spend even more every year.

So tax payers bailing out companys isn't welfare.

 

[MadDuner]

So tax payers bailing out companys isn't welfare.

It’s all the same.
They keep a big business from failing - or they pay welfare directly to the previously employed big business employees with zero chance of whatever big company got the bailout can ever restart again. Same bailout. 1 big check or 20,000 little ones. I don’t agree with it, but I understand it.