Why do people seem down on Savage rifles?

[tobylazur]

Hi guys, thanks for all the input.

I've been really interested in handling a Howa 1500 Bravo and a Bergada b14 HMR. What Tikkas should i look at? I figure i have about an $800-$1100 budget.
I'm going to try to get out to a local PRS match to participate in September or October. Hopefully that will give me a better idea what i should be looking for.

 

[NateVA]

Hi guys, thanks for all the input.

I've been really interested in handling a Howa 1500 Bravo and a Bergada b14 HMR. What Tikkas should i look at? I figure i have about an $800-$1100 budget.
I'm going to try to get out to a local PRS match to participate in September or October. Hopefully that will give me a better idea what i should be looking for.

Tikka CTR in 6.5CM with a 24" barrel. I can say with certainty that you'll love it.

 

[Primus]

The howa is the absolute best bang for the buck. I was playing with one of the howa 6.5cm in a chassis at sportsmans last night.. it was around $1K and SUPER nice. Japanese craftsmanship.

 

[Primus]

Just discoverd this as well, if you like traditional style stocks more : https://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com...roductDetail/Rifles/prod99999058859/cat100003

 

[jLorenzo]

I'd buy a Savage before a Remington anyday. I have 2 Savage rimfires, my 22 I literally shot a very extraordinary amount and wore out the bolt handle, they sent me a brand new one that shoots better and paipaid for the shipping inside of 2 weeks. For an entry level gun they will be fine, other guys are right, hunt around and you can find sub 500$ deals no problem, look at the 12FV, Hog Hunter, LRPs, 10FCPs, and if your into the stealths then go ahead. Lots of after market stuff but you shouldnt need much other than a stock and maybe mags/bottom medal. I went with a Howa and the fit and finish is better than my savages, got the barreled action for 230$ from brownells. Cant be beat. Just dont buy a Remington and you'll be ok, usually.

 

[tobylazur]

Tikka CTR in 6.5CM with a 24" barrel. I can say with certainty that you'll love it.

I thought the CTR came with a 20" barrel?

Just discoverd this as well, if you like traditional style stocks more : https://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com...roductDetail/Rifles/prod99999058859/cat100003

Yea, that's the one I've been looking hard at.

 

[Jackomason]

If you're not sure you want to invest money in a hobby you've never tried, then a savage might be right. I swore I'd never get a savage just due to QC problems I've seen in the past but then I found a deal at cabelas on their 12fv. It's pretty bare bones but it was on sale and came with a rebate. Before tax it was $219 and it's made a great gun for my wife.

 

[Scotts556]

Winchester 70 CRF master race. Love the customs but nothing like the riflemans rifle.

I retract my statement. I was waiting for the "everything is shit but XYZZZZ custom action and you not a shooter ill you spend 108K on a rifle." Fud type to roll out. I apologize.

Scott

 

[NateVA]

I thought the CTR came with a 20" barrel?

https://www.eurooptic.com/Tikka-T3x-CTR-65-Creedmoor-Stainless.aspx

 

[Primus]

Savage is the last gun i would buy if I'm unsure if I will keep it. Shit resale hence why pawnshops are full of them as no one wants to buy them.

 

[tobylazur]

If you're not sure you want to invest money in a hobby you've never tried, then a savage might be right. I swore I'd never get a savage just due to QC problems I've seen in the past but then I found a deal at cabelas on their 12fv. It's pretty bare bones but it was on sale and came with a rebate. Before tax it was $219 and it's made a great gun for my wife.

Well... i guess where I'm at is that I'd like to shoot longer ranges (past 500 yards).

I like to shoot "action" matches, IDPA, 3 Gun, etc. so the PRS seemed like something I'd enjoy. If i don't like PRS, I'd still like to shoot longer ranges anyway.

 

[Jackomason]

Savage is the last gun i would buy if I'm unsure if I will keep it. Shit resale hence why pawnshops are full of them as no one wants to buy them.

At $219 bucks I'm not too concerned about resale. Even if I didn't want to use it for anything serious I could have at least one cheap truck gun. I do agree though for the most part I wont touch a savage.

 

[TheOE800]

I thought the CTR came with a 20" barrel?



Yea, that's the one I've been looking hard at.

Tikka has a 24” model as of this year, other poster linked it.

If you get the Howa Bravo I demand a finder’s fee on the other site.

 

[Jackomason]

I have the RPR and a bergara, they are for two different jobs but both are great guns. If I were to do it again I'd probabaly save a little more and get something like the bergara hmr pro. I was able to go to the bergara expirience in colorado springs and got to test drive all their guns out to 1080 yards. The premier series is a huge step up with out the huge jump in price. I believe the HMR pro is sitting around $1400, I paid $1200 for my RPR.

 

[Shadow knows]

Option: pick up a Tikka, run this and get you feet wet then you can pic out a chassis and drip it in if you like matches. Otherwise you can keep it as is and run it as a range/hunting rifle.

http://www.tikka.fi/en-us/rifles/tikka-t3x/t3x-compact-tactical-rifle

 

[canezach]

This is what I was getting at in my post as well. I don't see many Savages at matches, but when I do, Murphy is close by.

I get it, if it's what you have, bring it... cause you aren't going to learn anything sitting on your ass at home. But for a shooter who is considering attending matches buy something better.

My experience with Savage rifles is limited to my friend's BA Stealth (I think that's what it's called. I's the one that comes in the MDT chassis), so I may have sent about 100 rounds downrange, but I have more firsthand evidence of their failures to last a lifetime. We have a local match. Nothing serious. 40 rounds at 300 yards. 10 rounds per stage at five diminishing sized targets, 5 rounds in the time limit, repeat after the rest of your squad has shot. You gain nothing but bragging rights, camaraderie, and trigger time. For as long as he's owned the rifle, I would say he's experienced a failure of some sort, typically feeding/magazine related, in 70% of the matches. I don't mean total rifle failure, but enough that it's cost him a stage. Impact, impact, failure to feed, strip the mag, single feed, reseat the mag, fire, miss from self-induced stress, impact, time. Lather, rinse repeat. Change to a different mag and the mag-related problems have mostly gone away, but he still has a feeding issue far more often than I would call acceptable.

 

[gconnoyer]

Speaking from competing in PRS last year with a Savage and this year with a custom, I'll drop my .02....


My savage was accurate, 1/2MOA out to 600 (furthest I have to print groups) with Eagle Eye 175gr factory ammo.
I started out shooting it because I had put it together a year or two before jumping into the PRS game. I bought a 10FP in 308 with a McMillan stock. It had their normal straight target crown barrel. I had the 10rd double stack box mags so it was a good enough starter.
Before going to my first I turned the trigger down as much as I could without it bump firing (1.5lbs), got a light bolt lift kit, and jumped in.
I wasnt really serious about it, just shooting it for fun seeing what it was all about.

Like 95% of new shooters I had a limited budged and I didnt want to get too far into it financially building a PRS specific rig not knowing
(At this point I'm $1500ish into the rifle itself.)

As I kept shooting my performance kept getting better and better, having more and more fun. And here is where Murphy that someone mentioned above popped in...
Bought a new trigger for it so that I could get under the 1lb weight. +$160
Bought some CDI bottom metal to fix the magazine/feed issues I was having with theirs and the aftermarket 10 round mags. ($220 and $160 for the AI mags)

Next match I went to (season finale), I was stoked to finally have a good ironed out setup rifle.... cleaned the first two stages of the day, get on the PRS barricade.....THERES MURPHY! The bolt came uncocked and I couldn't get the bolt closed. So after hitting my first two rounds, I had the issue. Spent a minute figuring out and fixing the malfunction and it really fucked my standings for the day. Still finished in the Top 20, but after all the money spent ($2000ish at this point) I still was having issues. I wasn't going to spend another $300-$600 re-barreling it and sink any more money into it.

Built a custom gun on a Big Horn action and havent looked back. I wish I would have left the savage alone, saved my money and just shot it how it was, and built a custom rifle while I was still improving with the savage.

I still recommend people jumping in with a budget gun, maybe something they already have. The accuracy on my savage was great, it was the reliability that really bit me the few times that it happened.

But don't go and buy a Savage, sink money into it hoping it works great eventually, and then get sucked in and end up spending $3000+ on a custom gun anyway. Save your money.

 

[jcann]

I just placed an order for an extractor, extractor spring, detent ball, ejector plunger, ejector spring and roll pin for my sons Savage Predator Max I in 260 Rem. All the parts crapped themselves with a little warm 143gr ELDX

 

[Primus]

Like burning money. Should have thrown it away and bought a ruger american predator or Howa in 6.5CM for like $400 bucks.

 

[tobylazur]

Speaking from competing in PRS last year with a Savage and this year with a custom, I'll drop my .02....


My savage was accurate, 1/2MOA out to 600 (furthest I have to print groups) with Eagle Eye 175gr factory ammo.
I started out shooting it because I had put it together a year or two before jumping into the PRS game. I bought a 10FP in 308 with a McMillan stock. It had their normal straight target crown barrel. I had the 10rd double stack box mags so it was a good enough starter.
Before going to my first I turned the trigger down as much as I could without it bump firing (1.5lbs), got a light bolt lift kit, and jumped in.
I wasnt really serious about it, just shooting it for fun seeing what it was all about.

Like 95% of new shooters I had a limited budged and I didnt want to get too far into it financially building a PRS specific rig not knowing
(At this point I'm $1500ish into the rifle itself.)

As I kept shooting my performance kept getting better and better, having more and more fun. And here is where Murphy that someone mentioned above popped in...
Bought a new trigger for it so that I could get under the 1lb weight. +$160
Bought some CDI bottom metal to fix the magazine/feed issues I was having with theirs and the aftermarket 10 round mags. ($220 and $160 for the AI mags)

Next match I went to (season finale), I was stoked to finally have a good ironed out setup rifle.... cleaned the first two stages of the day, get on the PRS barricade.....THERES MURPHY! The bolt came uncocked and I couldn't get the bolt closed. So after hitting my first two rounds, I had the issue. Spent a minute figuring out and fixing the malfunction and it really fucked my standings for the day. Still finished in the Top 20, but after all the money spent ($2000ish at this point) I still was having issues. I wasn't going to spend another $300-$600 re-barreling it and sink any more money into it.

Built a custom gun on a Big Horn action and havent looked back. I wish I would have left the savage alone, saved my money and just shot it how it was, and built a custom rifle while I was still improving with the savage.

I still recommend people jumping in with a budget gun, maybe something they already have. The accuracy on my savage was great, it was the reliability that really bit me the few times that it happened.

But don't go and buy a Savage, sink money into it hoping it works great eventually, and then get sucked in and end up spending $3000+ on a custom gun anyway. Save your money.

My initial thought was to upgrade the Savage i have now, but adding up parts lead me to looking into other rifles. I'm glad i didn't start doing that now.

 

[ArmyJerry]

Great shooters but feeding and ejection was teh reason I went over to Remmy and others a while ago. Still the best shooters out of the box. Lack of after market options was also a big motivator for the switch.

 

[Snipe260]

I've had a 111 long range hunter in 6.5x 284 and 110 in 338! Liked both of them and they were very good shooters! I never had a problem with either but never ran them hard either!

 

[Yoteski]

Let me summarize this by playing the part of the Savage action....
(Bolt lifts, heavily)
CLUNK, SCRRRRRAPE, CLICK, (Spent case barely trickles out) CHUNK CHUNK CHUNK (fuck with mag) RATTLE RATTLE, CLICK, CLUNK

 

[Rust]

Well, I may not be as old and decrepit as Greg but I've owned my fair share of rifles including Savages. And yes, the Savages had some issues. On the other hand one or two Remingtons had worse problems out of the box including extractor failure of both the clip in and pinned in variety. Had an old 10 FP that was rough as a cob but shot extremely well with handloads provided the action wasn't over-torqued into the tomato stake stock . It never embarrassed me on the target.

That said I believe that today the Howas probably the best bet out of the box if you spend a little to get the models with the better stock and heavier barrel. Lowlight ran one through the paces and got excellent performance out of one with factory ammo. Couple local guys have Howas and they shoot very well. Been thinking about one myself (like I need another rifle).

That said all of my competition rifles are customs. And my favorites are old Winchester 70s' dog bone barrels and all.

 

[Campguy308]

I have had a couple savages. I was never satisfied with them. It's like they are made from recycled beer cans. I really like the looks of the Tikka ctr.

 

[steve123]

Hey, I'm 1 for 5 that actually worked correctly, that's not too bad, lol, right???!!!

Of those, i owned just one action, for less than a week. Took the loss and learned my lesson. The others were owned by someone else.

That being said there's no perfect action.

For the cost i'd go HOWA.

 

[Campguy308]

Let me summarize this by playing the part of the Savage action....
(Bolt lifts, heavily)
CLUNK, SCRRRRRAPE, CLICK, (Spent case barely trickles out) CHUNK CHUNK CHUNK (fuck with mag) RATTLE RATTLE, CLICK, CLUNK

This is funny as hell, and exactly right. Salvage.

 

[sav338lapua]

ok just about heard enough about the bolt lift is heavy. all you need to do is take the bolt apart and where the cocking pin rides on the bolt body camming surface you'll notice there's a slight rise towards the end. take your dremel and level it off. your bolt will lift like its got power assist.
if you guys would like ill post some picks of what i'm talking about. ask savage why that bump is there and no one could tell me. i think it was done during design and they were worried that if parts got worn an loose it mght fire while workin

 

[Primus]

Nothing like some redneck Dremel engineering on a piece of metal that needs to contain a 65k psi explosion next to your face.

 

[SONIC SAAMI]

https://www.eurooptic.com/Tikka-T3-...LWIzMDAtYjc4ZjAwYTE1ZTcy_MQ&o=3&p=1&i=18&d=18

 

[Campguy308]

ok just about heard enough about the bolt lift is heavy. all you need to do is take the bolt apart and where the cocking pin rides on the bolt body camming surface you'll notice there's a slight rise towards the end. take your dremel and level it off. your bolt will lift like its got power assist.
if you guys would like ill post some picks of what i'm talking about. ask savage why that bump is there and no one could tell me. i think it was done during design and they were worried that if parts got worn an loose it mght fire while workin

Reminds me of some redneck deer camp SKS Bubba mods. "Hold my beer, I'm gone do some grindin on my salvage!"

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I have had extractor failures of a particularly nagging sort. Not going into details, but the number of them was staggering, like at least a half dozen in one match stage. They were caused by blown primers with a hot load on a hot day. I still managed to finish the stage because I had brought a second bolt, and had a gunsmith literally taking one bolt over my shoulder and handing me back the other with a new extractor.

This was neither a quality control failure nor a design failure, but a handloading screw up. I note also that at least some of the complaints above have at least some origin in replacement/upgrade parts.

I have to draw a line when acknowledging Savage issues.

Some of them are, no question, to be laid at Savage's door. Others have origins that cannot be, by any stretch, laid in the same place. When we get done sorting them out, I would definitely do better with a Savage than a Remington which has, for decades here at The 'Hide, been cited for notorious QC deficiencies. Other brands do better, but they also cost more historically.

I once got to speak with Bob Green, nominally the designer of the Savage 110 action. The originally unique features of the 110, like the barrel nut and the floating bolt head, were done so as a cost saving effort, to make the rifle easier to produce. Which they did; but they also resulted in desirable consequences.

Some others, like the original trigger design, were less user friendly, though in that case, the design was redone to create what became the industry leader in adjustability and safety. Many decided it was not 'comfortable', and others have found that individual triggers can have flaws. I'd call it a good but imperfect design, about what I'd also call the Remington trigger.

They're not perfect, but Savage has been responsive to criticism, and their responses have resulted in genuinely better products. So much so that many other current products are blatant copies of Savage improvements, including Remington. Again, choosing between Savage and Remington's implementations of these features, I'll stay with Savage.

I'm not singling out Remington for criticism, but they are somewhat more subject to such. Like all designs, they are a work in progress. But for my money, the progress tips in Savage's favor.

Not all ears that hear my comments will be open to what I say. In no small number of those cases, the negativity is chronic, even if what is said is specifically correct, because it's also very reminiscent of broken records. We call them Savage Bashers around here, and like everyone else here, they get their say for the price of admission.

Just like me, they are endured because we have all earned good reputations here for some of what we have to say.

Greg

 

[kthomas]

You are right that the Savage action was designed as a budget rifle but the barrel nut and floating bolt head that were undoubtably cost reduction measures are actually improvements over the Winchester 70 and Remington 700.

Some people will debate the barrel nut but it allows the end user to install a pre-fit barrel with minimal tooling. It opens up the platform to home gunsmithing which is very nice for people who don't want to pay for a custom Remington 700.

Of course this makes most professional gunsmiths look down upon them because they see it as money out of their pocket.

Back to the price, Savage is still cheaper than a Remington 700 despite all of Remington's best efforts to cheapen them up. Better than that, Savage rifles have a reputation for shooting a lot better than their low price would suggest.

The bolt lift issue is real but the best Savage gunsmiths offer timing packages so that your bolt lift isn't simultaneously doing primary extraction and cocking at the same time. That and a bolt lift kit solves the problem. From a description of the procedure, it sounds like a hobby gunsmith who knows what he's doing can figure out how to time up a Savage action. I will attempt it if I ever have to.

One funny thing about Savage is that their Axis is supposed to be their budget action but it always seems to be more expensive than a sale price 12FV...

You can also just get a barrel vice, action wrench and torque wrench....

Some actions a shouldered barrel can be made without the gunsmith ever seeing the action. For other actions, they only need to see it once. I will take a shouldered barrel 10 times out of 10 over a barrel nut.

Plus, Savages feel like hammered dog shit. The triggers are some of the worst I've felt (stock Remington's are definitely worst) and the action isn't much to talk about either. I'm not defending stock Remington's either - they are no better.

If you want a budget rifle, get a Tikka.

 

[Campguy308]

You can also just get a barrel vice, action wrench and torque wrench....

Some actions a shouldered barrel can be made without the gunsmith ever seeing the action. For other actions, they only need to see it once. I will take a shouldered barrel 10 times out of 10 over a barrel nut.

Plus, Savages feel like hammered dog shit. The triggers are some of the worst I've felt (stock Remington's are definitely worst) and the action isn't much to talk about either. I'm not defending stock Remington's either - they are no better.

If you want a budget rifle, get a Tikka.

Agree. However, I do believe a trued 700 with a ptg 1 piece bolt is about as solid a platform as anything else.

 

[LA260]

My 12LRP ejects better than my AT after a $25 mod. Having said that if I was starting over and wanted to buy a <$1k bolt action I would get a Tikka without a doubt. I've spent a lot of time behind one and the factory Tikka action feels like a full on custom compared to savage.

 

[TripleBull]

Nothing like some redneck Dremel engineering on a piece of metal that needs to contain a 65k psi explosion next to your face.

I always put on a lab coat and keep my mouth closed to hide the black and missing teeth when I Dremel a Salvage. That makes everyone think I'm an Engineer.

 

[sav338lapua]

hey primus what part did i say was trimmed???? didnt say anything about the bolt head which is what holds all the pressure back.
if you get one of the savage easy lift kits that are sold what im telling all the savage owners to do is what they have you do first, and they are top gunsmiths. anyone knows the savage bolt assembly was made the way it is for 2 reasons, 1 it allows the bolt to mate with the lugs which makes for better accuracy, 2 the bolt head is made of higher strength steel and is easier to manufacture and the body is made of a lower but more than adequate steel. more than anything if the bolt body or bolt head are damaged during manufacturing your not tossing a whole bolt because its all one piece.
if its so bad primus then why have just about all the gun manufacturers use the savage system now????? Remington says the 783 is the future of Remington. you really ought to research a subject before you show absolute ignorance over a subject since you dont own or use savage rifles how would you know anything about them. obviously you dont like them and thats fine dont use them then.

 

[Gooldylocks]

So I don't have any amount of meaningful experience with any of the major rifles out there being so new to the game, but I do know that my Savage has been reliable and very accurate for the short time I have had it. I am under no illusions that it is a nice rifle, quite the contrary actually. It is roughly put together and the bolt lift sucks, but what do you expect for under 200 bucks? It shoots half minute with factory ammo and has gotten me hits at a mile, I don't think you can ask for more at the same price point.

I think all the haters are based in reality when they say "they aren't as reliable.. don't feed as well.. have ejection/extraction issues..", but that the problems have to be overblown to some degree. If they weren't, there wouldn't be a gajillion people out there who swear by them, which there are. Yes, they must have issues more frequently than other brands or that stereotype wouldn't exist. But is it really as bad as the haters say? I dunno.

I am guessing that there is at least a little bit of the reverse-value economy thing like was mentioned above going on. If a new shooter shows up to a match or on the forums and says "I want a new production gun for USPSA," every single person is gonna say buy a tanfo or a CZ, otherwise you are a big dumb idiot. The fact of the matter is that a $400 Glock or Q5 or whatever is probably just as good of a choice as that $1400 Accushadow, since what actually makes the biggest difference is popping primers and dryfire. I can appreciate the nicer or better tool (hell, I shoot both an Accushadow for production and some custom 2011s for open), but I am not under the illusion that the tool is going to make me win over someone better than me using an inferior gun. Just because it costs 1/3rd or less of the other choices doesn't automatically mean it sucks.

 

[kthomas]

I think all the haters are based in reality when they say "they aren't as reliable.. don't feed as well.. have ejection/extraction issues..", but that the problems have to be overblown to some degree. If they weren't, there wouldn't be a gajillion people out there who swear by them, which there are. Yes, they must have issues more frequently than other brands or that stereotype wouldn't exist. But is it really as bad as the haters say? I dunno.

Some of us on the 'hide are much more demanding of our rifles than the average rifle/Savage consumer. I would wager that the average Savage shooter shoots on average 25 rounds or less a year - 24 to sight the rifle in come hunting season, and maybe one shot at an animal.

A lot of us here shoot thousands of rounds a year. I personally have to rebarrel once a year - there are people on here who have to rebarrel 2-3+ times a year. We shoot in extreme heat, cold, fine "moon dust", rain, etc. And we shoot A LOT.

Equipment fails when you run it hard. Even the good custom stuff. The fact of the matter is, Savage rifles will have a higher failure rate than the custom rigs we run (or more than other better built production guns). Higher production rates, lower tolerances, weaker QA/QC, cheaper materials, etc. It's no surprise that they aren't up to the quality or reliability of other products.

Even in Frank's/Lowlights latest Every Day Sniper podcast, he mentions that he sees a lot higher failure rate in Savages than other rifle manufacturers in his training classes. He states that he has to fix at a minimum one Savage rifle per class, usually multiple.

 

[velvetant]

I'll ask again. what is failing on them?

 

[Primus]

/thread

 

[Lowlight]

I'll ask again. what is failing on them?

Had one in the MHSA class this past weekend, the base loosened up 3x during the class. We torqued it down after the first time, but it kept coming loose.

I have a funny feeling the base screws were oversized and not to spec, why else would a 308 continue to loosen it ?

Almost every PR Class I host, when Savages are involved we usually have to wrench on them. Always slows the class down to have Savages involved.

It's normally a QC issue, things just seem to slip through the cracks, In their defense, we see similar problems with Remington too lately.

 

[Gooldylocks]

Some of us on the 'hide are much more demanding of our rifles than the average rifle/Savage consumer. I would wager that the average Savage shooter shoots on average 25 rounds or less a year - 24 to sight the rifle in come hunting season, and maybe one shot at an animal.

A lot of us here shoot thousands of rounds a year. I personally have to rebarrel once a year - there are people on here who have to rebarrel 2-3+ times a year. We shoot in extreme heat, cold, fine "moon dust", rain, etc. And we shoot A LOT.

Equipment fails when you run it hard. Even the good custom stuff. The fact of the matter is, Savage rifles will have a higher failure rate than the custom rigs we run (or more than other better built production guns). Higher production rates, lower tolerances, weaker QA/QC, cheaper materials, etc. It's no surprise that they aren't up to the quality or reliability of other products.

Even in Frank's/Lowlights latest Every Day Sniper podcast, he mentions that he sees a lot higher failure rate in Savages than other rifle manufacturers in his training classes. He states that he has to fix at a minimum one Savage rifle per class, usually multiple.

Sure, that's fine. I shoot ~20k a year through my pistols, I know how this stuff goes. You pay for quality, because shit breaks, and quality shit breaks less. But one must keep in mind that it isn't reaaaalllly a fair comparison between a 2,3, maybe 600 or 700 dollar rifle and even the cheapest of the others mentioned in this thread that are about 1000. That is 40% more. That's a significant difference in money for some people.

"Argh but you will never get your money out of it, they have no resale argh rah grumble grumble!"
Who cares, it was 300 bucks. Shoot it, bang it around, tear it up, it is irrelevant. The whole rifle costs less than a pre-fit barrel. So the next question is can someone make them run well enough to be functional (or some of the factory options servicable in their OEM state, like the 110 Tactical the OP mentioned). Maybe they can't, or maybe they can't while maintaining their cost-effectiveness. I was certainly doing the math on it between dolling up my rifle for PRS vs just buying a new Bravo or RPR and leaving this one stock, and I'm gonna go that direction. But I have the ability to do that financially, which not everyone would have.

 

[kthomas]

That's fine. If that's all you can afford, buy a Savage. Better than not shooting at all, I don't think anyone here is implying that.

But you can't expect it to perform like a custom rifle, or even rifles that may be just a few hundred dollars more. There's a reason why they are $300.

Cheap is cheap, and you get what you pay for.

 

[Gooldylocks]

So that's what part of what I'm asking. Can you improve them for a reasonable amount of money, with the knowledge that you need to maintain the cost effectiveness? I never said it is going to compare to a custom, just like a $400 M&P isn't going to hold a candle to my custom open gun.

Say you buy that 110 Tactical, for 500 bucks. Has an adjustable stock with aluminum bedding, takes AI mags, is threaded, comes from the factory with a 20 MOA rail... Could that rifle be improved to play at a reasonable level? Or perhaps the better question, could it be improved to where it wasn't holding back most shooters cost-effectively? Or are they just so bad, and so unreliable that they are not functional for this game?

 

[Lowlight]

Aftermarket parts for Savage suck

You better off buying a Tikka and upgrading it

 

[Primus]

So that's what part of what I'm asking. Can you improve them for a reasonable amount of money, with the knowledge that you need to maintain the cost effectiveness? I never said it is going to compare to a custom, just like a $400 M&P isn't going to hold a candle to my custom open gun.

Say you buy that 110 Tactical, for 500 bucks. Has an adjustable stock with aluminum bedding, takes AI mags, is threaded, comes from the factory with a 20 MOA rail... Could that rifle be improved to play at a reasonable level? Or perhaps the better question, could it be improved to where it wasn't holding back most shooters cost-effectively? Or are they just so bad, and so unreliable that they are not functional for this game?

 

[Primus]

That's fine. If that's all you can afford, buy a Savage. Better than not shooting at all, I don't think anyone here is implying that.

But you can't expect it to perform like a custom rifle, or even rifles that may be just a few hundred dollars more. There's a reason why they are $300.

Cheap is cheap, and you get what you pay for.

Poor people are better off investing in making themselves more valuable, not buying trash and wasting it playing games.

 

[Gooldylocks]

Poor people are better off investing in making themselves more valuable, not buying trash and wasting it playing games.

Thanks for being a douche. Now back to our regularly scheduled discussion.

It isn't always the case that someone is poor just because they don't want to dump loads of cash on something. I wouldn't tell someone to go be poor somewhere else if they didn't want to drop 4500 bucks or more on a custom 2011, I'd try to help them find a solution so they can play too.

If upgrading a savage is more cost effective/cheaper than buying a different rifle that is worth noting. If it just isn't gonna work it is important to explain why.

 

[Gooldylocks]

Aftermarket parts for Savage suck

You better off buying a Tikka and upgrading it

Especially right now with the sale at Euro optic still going on. Those are some silly prices. I was thinking about getting the 243 they have and putting it in a KRG bravo, then just selling the factory 243 tube for a 6.5 creed barrel.

It is interesting to me that there aren't better parts for the Savages I guess. Seems like with how many are out there people would be selling race ready parts for them that are actually decent.

And to be clear once again, I am not in any way a Savage fan boy. But as an outsider looking in, it seems like they are pretty decent for the cost, so if they could be tuned to work better they could actually be nice-ish. Seeing pictures of $300 factory rifles putting up the same groups as rifles costing 5-10 times as much seems decent to me.