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Suppressors Why does it take so long for approval
- Thread starter alexdawg1
- Start date
Paperwork, staff, and work load. There are 12-15 examiners for NFA items. Number seems to vary from year to year. Figure it takes a week to get there through the USPS. Then it has to be logged in and the check sent off to be cashed. It is my understanding they will not process anything until the check clears. so figure a week or 2 for that. Next an examiner has to read ALL your paper work and make sure it is all ok. If you send in a trust they have to read EVERY word to make sure it is legal. My trust is 18 pages and I can't read the whole thing at once without going to sleep. so figure a few hours to do that. An examiner can maybe process 5 to 10 a day. But when demand is high they are receiving over 780 a day. 200 pounds of shit in a 5 pound bag.
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I remember back a few years ago when eFile was still active. So much faster. I got a Form 4 approval/stamp within 5 months then.
I am still amazed that the eFile system isn't back online after it was taken down in 2014. I won't get into the politics of the ATF here in this thread, but it sure would be nice to not need to file any type of paperwork at all.
I am waiting on 3 items to "get out of jail" any day now... At about 270 days currently.
I am still amazed that the eFile system isn't back online after it was taken down in 2014. I won't get into the politics of the ATF here in this thread, but it sure would be nice to not need to file any type of paperwork at all.
I am waiting on 3 items to "get out of jail" any day now... At about 270 days currently.
yes, the vast number of applications with only a handful of examiners, combined with the fact that they can take as long as they want. As far as I know, there is no regulation limiting the amount of time they can take per approval. I wouldn't be surprised if submissions from July 2016 take 12-13 months. Yippee.
Scott
Scott
The process is designed to take a long time, to discourage people. It works.
At some point it would become an infringement, but you have to sue the government for that.
At some point it would become an infringement, but you have to sue the government for that.
It took a little over 11 months to get my two stamps approved. March of 2016 to the end of Feb, 2017. Maybe one bright side is they are not selling a lot of cans right now, {compared to last year,} because people are waiting for HPA to go thru.
As an individual filer, waiting on my fifth stamp now, are you trustees purposely making your documents as long as you can, or is there some legal reason or format that it has to be long? Sometimes I read people having 1-3 page trusts. Others, like an above poster, 18 or a similar number. Like I asked a guy in the gym once( seriously I might add: does screaming and throwing equipment around help you get stronger?) do the 'put you to sleep' trust papers help you pass items around easier or make the process go faster?
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It does not make the process go faster at all. I have no idea how people do a trust a couple pages long. Mine is basically like this. Has names of trustees blah blah blah, beneficiaries blah blah blah. then all the applicable laws involving NFA items and then how the trust will follow them. Then a signature page and notary page and a schedule A page. Then there is another 15-20 pages that are instructions on how to administer the trust legally. I don't have to send those in. You only have to send one copy in each time. Last time I did 7 form 4s and sent in one copy of the trust. So they didn't have to read it 7 times. I have done that 3 times in 5 years and worked every time.
Probably doesn't help that there was an assload of people that sent in forms just prior to the 41f changes. Had the changes never taken place we'd be at a 2 month give or take wait time.
Interesting article, saw a documentary on some of this BS a while back as well... http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...f-gun-laws-nra
Start reading at, A lack of resources— by design
Efile was a beautiful thing. Click and next day I was getting blown up by emails saying everything was done just waiting on trust approval. Week later approved and then the wait but it was about 6 months for me. But still so much better than paper.
My brother did a paper file when I did my efile. His took 15 months. Talk about pissed off.
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Not sure how anyone reads that article. But i see it as trying to slam the NRA.
The one statement about NFA items saying "NFA has effectively removed those items from the criminal market place". That was from an ATF agent and that shows me a mind set that all firearms and accessories should have a large tax and a mountain of paperwork involved.
would I like to see a few things in that article change, sure. But the fact s the anti's have their heels dug in so hard that the NRA has to do the same.
Agree the majority of the article is garbage ! But parts of relevance of the article are:
- The ATF employs about 5,000 men and women, approximately the same number of staff it had a decade ago; about half are special agents assigned to conduct criminal investigations. That's a force about the size of the Harris County, Texas, Sheriff's Department. In a letter to Vice President Joe Biden's gun violence commission, 108 academic researchers complained that the ATF's funding was "stagnating" while the budgets of law enforcement agencies such as the FBI had seen "dramatic expansions." Since 1972, the Drug Enforcement Administration's staff has more than doubled, while the FBI's is up by two-thirds. The ATF's current budget of $1.15 billion is little changed from the $900 million it received 10 years ago.
- Two of the riders effectively ban consolidation and computerization of records. <-- The computer part is what gets me though.
- The ATF employs about 5,000 men and women, approximately the same number of staff it had a decade ago; about half are special agents assigned to conduct criminal investigations. That's a force about the size of the Harris County, Texas, Sheriff's Department. In a letter to Vice President Joe Biden's gun violence commission, 108 academic researchers complained that the ATF's funding was "stagnating" while the budgets of law enforcement agencies such as the FBI had seen "dramatic expansions." Since 1972, the Drug Enforcement Administration's staff has more than doubled, while the FBI's is up by two-thirds. The ATF's current budget of $1.15 billion is little changed from the $900 million it received 10 years ago.
- Two of the riders effectively ban consolidation and computerization of records. <-- The computer part is what gets me though.
NFA is just a tax & registry. The fingerprints and the rest is simply process invented by the ATF to slow down the process. If the IRS can process 100's of millions of tax returns and refunds a year, I feel the ATF should be able to handle their tiny by comparison load.
The IRS has more help to handle our taxes and a little company name IBM to do the heavy stuff ! I go with the fact that the ATF's lack of computerize their stuff is the major bottle neck. If they could scan and / or input our info in and them go back and review said info, it probably could go faster...
The Rush to get the gun trusts in by July 12th backed the system up bad. I believe those will be cleared out the end of May or first of June. After that I believe it will go back to 4-5 month wait time again.
Why does it take so long? Because government. They have zero incentive to make an effort to provide good customer service*.
*I'm not talking about individual examiners here... I'm sure that the vast majority of them are simply doing the best they can with what they have to work with. I am talking about the bureaucracy; because there is no competition for the services that they provide, the management team has no reason to make investments into additional resources or efficiencies. As such, if you want the service that they (and ONLY they) provide, you get to wait. Tough shit if you don't like it.
*I'm not talking about individual examiners here... I'm sure that the vast majority of them are simply doing the best they can with what they have to work with. I am talking about the bureaucracy; because there is no competition for the services that they provide, the management team has no reason to make investments into additional resources or efficiencies. As such, if you want the service that they (and ONLY they) provide, you get to wait. Tough shit if you don't like it.
It is an intentional inconvenience, that's why.
If you are legally permitted to own a firearm, you are legally permitted to own an NFA item.
Do you think they really conduct more than a records check via computer?
How long does it take you gunshop to get your background checked?
Just an FYI, I called recently, as I submitted a Form 1. I knew it wasn't going to be anywhere near close to being approved, but the lady at the NFA branch told me that they don't see the forms until at least 5 months AFTER the check clears.
I called because I was concerned about filling out the form correctly and wanted to see if I needed to begin preparing for corrections.
If you are legally permitted to own a firearm, you are legally permitted to own an NFA item.
Do you think they really conduct more than a records check via computer?
How long does it take you gunshop to get your background checked?
Just an FYI, I called recently, as I submitted a Form 1. I knew it wasn't going to be anywhere near close to being approved, but the lady at the NFA branch told me that they don't see the forms until at least 5 months AFTER the check clears.
I called because I was concerned about filling out the form correctly and wanted to see if I needed to begin preparing for corrections.
