Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

[desertrat1979]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

I picked up a Remington back when I knew next to nothing about rifles. One thing you develope with experience is preference. I love my 700. I plan to send it off for a new barrel and true up the action, then the rifle is done. I just plan to shoot it. However, I am the "hobbyist", and broke, so the whole sending it off to the smith is not realistic at this moment. A savage will fill my need to tinker with something I can afford.

I like the car analogies, as I am a grease monkey as well. Same principal applies. I will not get a car that requires me to send it off to a dealer for simple things, when on a lesser car, can do myself. For me, if I could afford it, Remmy, Sako, GAP, AI...ect would be my first choices. When you can take a rifle out of the box, put on optics, zero and shoot, and not have to do anything to it except enjoy its accuracy, that is a reward for money well spent. When you take a rifle out of the box, tinker, mod, and tweek and then enjoy its accuracy, you get the same reward, but its for the work you did instead of the money spent. I am happy with either route.

 

[JWV]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

I think that the durability issue lies completely with the accu-trigger. Mine would like to seize if I closed the bolt hard. Simple fix, rifle basix or SSS comp trigger. As for the bolt handles, they are held securely with the the large BAS screw so they will never come off and are swapped out easily. I have built a couple now and really enjoy shooting them. As for aftermarket, I don't know any stock makers that don't inlet for savage as well as barrel makers pre-fitting them. The really only limiting factor is trigger selection. There are only a few choices. Other than that, I feel that they have caught up with the rest of the market.

The bolt does feel clunky, but that is the nature of the design with the floating head and baffles. Speaking of which, bolt face changes are a breeze. 18 dollar bolt face and maybe some firing pin adjustment. 3 lug target actions.

Also, they can be quick switch barrels. Watched a guy at an F-class match set a mid-range single string ftr record up with his Kreiger barreled Savage. 200-15x. If someone is looking for a DIY or a cheaper build (same cost as Remmy except no smith fees), go for a Savage and be happy.

 

[Paulus]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

I dont dislike them at all. personally, i like them. i just had a 700 as a kid, and liked em a lot then, so i own one now. have a 700p i really like a lot. shot a couple savage model 10s and they are very nice rifles.

Paulus

 

[BrettSass844]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

Really confused on how a Savage isn't good enough for the "enthusiest"... I have somewhere in the neighborhood of a grand in my 10FP 308 and with my handloads it shoots .5 moa. That statement isnt meant to brag in the least just curious what the hell is left to chase??? Why do I need to spend more money??? I think a lot of people get caught up in the "looking cool, tactical or sniperish" So that pretty much DQs everything without a 700 footprint due to aftermarket parts. I could give a shit about any of that. I have a sub moa rifle and it is dependable and functions every time I call on it. I doubt I will ever be in any situation with my Savage where I will feel like a higher end stick will serve me better. Better yet I know I wont. Im not in the military or a leo, I could give 2 shits what they are using and dont judge anything I get from that. That is another reason why Remington gets more play (because its what the military uses so it must be good). Im not knocking any brand or any shooter for what they use. I love the hobby and can respect difference of opinions. More emphasis should be put on what your doing behind said rifle because imo thats the most important thing. Just wish we could all put the brand wars aside and get on helping each other by shareing experiences and techniques to help us improve as shooters.

 

[nic_bravo_whiskey]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Phylodog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't like the way they look. I don't like the way they feel. I don't like the lack of options available for them.

That said, I wouldn't race for pink slips against one either and I don't talk shit about those who shoot them. </div></div>

The best reply here.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

I'm building a new rifle this winter (FN SPR action), and I'll be thrilled if it works as well as my savage has.

I also don't understand what the asavage doesnt offer the "enthusiast". I am an enthusiast. My savage and I have been to and won many matches (an F-class match today, in fact...that we won).

Obviously, I am pro-savage... I am an objective guy though, so here are the negatives:

Bolt runs like shit in stock form.
Comes in a super-chintzy plastic stock that isnt worthy of sitting next to the rest of the garbage in the trashcan.
Accutrigger requires adjustment every so often (about every 1000 rounds for mine)
Bottom metal choices limited
Has an "ugly" barrel nut
Cheap little piece of red plastic for the "not on safe" indicator

 

[JWV]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm building a new rifle this winter (FN SPR action), and I'll be thrilled if it works as well as my savage has.

I also don't understand what the asavage doesnt offer the "enthusiast". I am an enthusiast. My savage and I have been to and won many matches (an F-class match today, in fact...that we won).

Obviously, I am pro-savage... I am an objective guy though, so here are the negatives:

Bolt runs like shit in stock form.
Comes in a super-chintzy plastic stock that isnt worthy of sitting next to the rest of the garbage in the trashcan.
Accutrigger requires adjustment every so often (about every 1000 rounds for mine)
Bottom metal choices limited
Has an "ugly" barrel nut
Cheap little piece of red plastic for the "not on safe" indicator </div></div>

You must have shot in Cadillac. I tried making it out but had to much to get done. You and your Savage won huh? Congrats!!! F open or Ftr?

 

[turbo54]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

Actually, I was at WSC today. It was windy and tricky today. Honestly, I didnt do great, and missed my oppurtunity for High Master reclassification. But...I guess everyone else struggled too, because I won FTR. The winner of FO beat me by 2 points. I don't feel too bad, losing by 2 points with a 308, being against a 6.5-284.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

Wow, so glad you all love your Savages, and if we put the collection of individuals Who posted as such together, you might add up to what, 1 guy for every 5th state. There is a reason for that which as been outlined in quite a bit of detail.

Seeing how you all enjoy overlooking the big points and focusing on the small, or should i say the few who consider themselves "enthusiast" , here is the clue.

Let's take the winningest Savage among the posters here debating the "enthusiast" comment, and I will take my Gladius which started off as a 700P I bought from a L/E officer on the site, and we'll each post them for sale. Once they are listed we'll note which sells first and for how much and we'll see who made the better long term investment.

Remember, a winning rifle is about 3 things, barrels, bullets and the shooter. That doesn't leave a Savage out by stretch of the imagination, but then again, there is more to it than knocking out a win on your home court now and again. Lots of admission of known issues here that taken to the extreme would you invest your time and effort in, would you trust it to something like an Accu-trigger as described above. Finding out for first time while on the line is a tough lesson to learn.

 

[2 dogs]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

I dont have anything against Savage rifles. I have ONE that I tore down and did everything I would do with a Remington and it is just as accurate as anything else I own. Its a 223AI if you must know. I can say that my Riflesmith PREFERS to work on Remington 700s. THAT fact matters ALOT!

 

[Killer Spade 13]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

Who the hell cares what kind of rifle it is as long as you can hit what ya want when ya want to hit it?

Just sayin'

Doesn't make a hill of beans of difference.

If a good ole boy knew his piece good enough and could hit any target he wanted to when he wanted to, would it make a difference if it was 30-30 Winchester???

Grew up poor, couldn't afford anything "fancy", like a high powered rifle. Everybody said ya had to have at least a 30-30 or 12 gauge slug to kill a deer. Bravo Sierra.

Even though it was against the law, I took many white tails with a .22 long rifle.

As someone mentioned earlier, it's the combination of the rifle, bullet, shooter and knowledge of the capabiities and limitations of the 3 component parts in concert.

If the guy in the next lane is outshooting you with an Italian 6.5mm Carcarno with a 4X scope, then he's simply tuned his holy trinity better than you have. From what I've read in the past, it's entirely possible.

But moving on along . . .

 

[nashlaw]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

I had one of their police rifles when they first came out. No accutrigger and just the flimsy doo-doo stock. I had a 10x Leupold on it in cheap rings. It was a beater that I had little money in.

It shot like it should have cost 3x's the price. With some fmj bullets and a charge of BLC-2, it would print around 2" at 300yds. Having said that, I prefer Remingtons.

Savages are nice rifles and you get your money's worth.

 

[RADcustom]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RADcustom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Apparently, they had a quality control problem around 2008.

https://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2279272 </div></div>

This thread is actually about a Marlin 17HMR but the link to the Savage TR smoothbore is contained in the thread.
In their defense the rimfires are not made in the USA by Savage. The rimfire Savage can be in no way shape form or fashion compared with the centerfires, I think this is what sparked the Chevette,GT,Corvette analogy. I have seen people use the success of the centerfires to argue in favor of the rimfire Savage. Once again we see the same old story and again we see a great gun at a great price with little to no aftermarket support and results that are quite frankly over embellished by enthusiastic fans. </div></div>

My apologies, I corrected the error in the original post.

Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

 

[BrettSass844]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, so glad you all love your Savages, and if we put the collection of individuals Who posted as such together, you might add up to what, 1 guy for every 5th state. There is a reason for that which as been outlined in quite a bit of detail.

Seeing how you all enjoy overlooking the big points and focusing on the small, or should i say the few who consider themselves "enthusiast" , here is the clue.

Let's take the winningest Savage among the posters here debating the "enthusiast" comment, and I will take my Gladius which started off as a 700P I bought from a L/E officer on the site, and we'll each post them for sale. Once they are listed we'll note which sells first and for how much and we'll see who made the better long term investment.

Remember, a winning rifle is about 3 things, barrels, bullets and the shooter. That doesn't leave a Savage out by stretch of the imagination, but then again, there is more to it than knocking out a win on your home court now and again. Lots of admission of known issues here that taken to the extreme would you invest your time and effort in, would you trust it to something like an Accu-trigger as described above. Finding out for first time while on the line is a tough lesson to learn. </div></div>

I will not debate in the slightest bit that your GAP has a long list of attention to detail in many areas that the Savage doesnt. However, how many shooters actually NEED that? How many will fully take advantage of that? How many guys on this site could actually push the GAP to its fullest capabilities? How many guys buy a "top end" rifle and get the same performance as they could out of a Savage DUE TO THEIR CAPABILITIES? My guess would be a lot. So in a nutshell I think there is 3 main reasons Savage doesnt get as much play as other manufactures (and a factory rifle vs a custom is a piss poor comparision).
1. Very simple... STATUS
2. After market support (which in part is quite possibly Savage's fault due to many design changes over the years)
3. Someone actually needs the quality and attention to detail that comes along with a custom rifle.

Again I will reiterate I have nothing personally against Rem or any other manufacture. Most certainilly I do not debate that George or many of the other custom builders do not build a top notch product that isnt worth the money or offers features and attention to detail not found on factory firearms. That's a given, its obviously what you pay for. My debate is that more often than not Savage is a great choice for new shooters and perfectly fits the bill for what the vast majority of us on this site need. I was simply stating why I feel like it is overlooked quite a bit.

 

[slowr1der]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

I love Savages, and I don't really read all that many complaints about them, but they may be out there and I just miss them. I can see why some guys wouldn't like their basic cheaper flimsy stocks on some rifles, if they are building a match rifle, but it's easily upgradable, and not a huge deal. With that stock I've still seen many rifles shoot sub moa groups.

 

[Jeepocabra]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

I don't like them because they kick started my lead addiction.

 

[BigBlue&Goldie]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

I think there are a few core reasons why people dog on Savage rifles:

1) They are ugly
2) They are cheap, which is never fashionable when it comes to male hobbies that require equipment (cars, motorcycles, basketball shoes, snow sports, (insert big dick contest of choice), etc.)
3) No refinement to speak of out of the box
4) Less options from the aftermarket
5) No resale value..........look at the exchange for proof of this

I also believe there are many reasons why people love Savage rifles:

1) A lot of people don't care how their shit looks; millions of Glock owners are a testimant to this.
2) They are so cheap that a person can have 3 "built" Savages for the cost of one GAP rifle.
3) Many people like taking a POS and tinkering with it until they are happy with it. Savages are the most user friendly for the amateur gunsmith. There are also many shooters who don't care if their bolt runs slick or if their bolt release is stamped.
4) When it comes down to it, there are top quality components available from many aftermaket manufacturers; more than other rifle makes such as FN, Ruger, Weatherby, Howa, Sako, etc.
5) Savages are easy to part out cause they are all the rage lately. A complete "built" Savage is worth nothing, but when you part it out and return the rifle to stock, you can walk away ok.

It's a Ford vs. Chevy vs. Dodge argument. I'll take a Ford truck with a Cummins and an Allison tranny..........others will buy a Toyota cause they just like something different.

I prefer Howa's for a stock action, but own a couple of Savages cause I like to dick with them myself. I would love to own a Bighorn, Nesika Bay, Stiller or the like, but my shooting doesn't justify it.

What it boils down to is everyone has an opinion, just like everyone has an asshole..... and they all stink. We all like the smell of our own farts, but we can probably agree that we don't like the smell of the next guy's.

 

[Black-X]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

I have a factory barreled Savage 110 in .300wm that shoots better than my custom .260 R700. In a range environment I'd challenge Lowlight to take it and see if he could find an accuracy difference between a high end rifle of his versus mine. However in a competition/two-way range/harsh use environment I have no doubts that an AI would be leaps and bounds ahead of my Savage (which is why I want one for comps).

Why the Savage hate? They are cheap, somewhat "clunky/loose" and don't have quite the following as some of the others but most of the time they FLAT OUT SHOOT.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

You guys don't seem to get it...

This is my Savage tactical 10FP ...

This is its 5 shot group it shoots

Now, not only does it look the part, it also shoots the part, so with that said, so who wants to give me $3550 for it ? Scope and bipod not included...

Been there done that, 10 years ago, & got the T-shirt...

 

[BigBlue&Goldie]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Now, not only does it look the part, it also shoots the part, so with that said, including 2 cases of factory Lapua 6mmBR who wants to give me $3550 for it ? Scope and bipod not included...

</div></div>

I would say you have a deal, but you are running a factory bolt handle.......it's 2011, you can't be seen without a tactical bolt knob!

 

[BoilerUP]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

Fine looking stick there, LL.

Serious question - why remove the barrel nut, aesthetics?

Also, could you provide a link to the "Ghost Dancer" project? My Google-fu must be weak as I can't find it and it would be interesting to read.

Thanks!

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

GAP did it, I would say to make it look less "savage like"

I actually screwed up my initial post on it, the question was who would be willing to pay $3550 for a Savage, when I mentioned the case of ammo it changed the whole point. I'm not really interested in selling it, the point was regarding the cost.

I get it, they shoot, you can make them look and act the part, no question at all there, however if a smith offered a Custom Savage for more than $3000 would you pay for it ?

 

[SoulSnatcher]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

I think that savage rifles have come a long way since my first one in the early 90's.I especially like the 110BA they have now but i dont own one, i have shot one though and it was quite the tack driver, chambered in 308Win with a nightforce scope. Ill stick to my 700 rem though

 

[762frmafr]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I get it, they shoot, you can make them look and act the part, no question at all there, however if a smith offered a Custom Savage for more than $3000 would you pay for it? </div></div>

Frank I completely agree with you but being the Devil's Advocate, Felipe did from Mike @ TacOps.

 

[KYS]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 762frmafr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I get it, they shoot, you can make them look and act the part, no question at all there, however if a smith offered a Custom Savage for more than $3000 would you pay for it? </div></div>

Frank I completely agree with you but being the Devil's Advocate, Felipe did from Mike @ TacOps.

</div></div>


.... and sold it for an AI...... then sold it to get out of the sport. What?

 

[Austincqc]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: UH-1H Huey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I have witnessed on several occasions at the public range guys with the high dollar rifles talking smack and then getting their ass handed to them by a guy with a Savage.
Of course any idiot with money can buy a custom rifle, but that doesn't mean he knows how to shoot it. </div></div>

I just did this on Sunday. Had a guy look at my 10pc with a Bushnell 3200 3-9x hunting scope (waiting for the new SS!!) and ask how far I was shooting. When I told him probably only to 750 because I had 168gr 308, he kinda laughed and said "well good luck." I helped a buddy get zeroed in on his bone stock 700 VTR (which looks cool....but held slightly greater than 1moa), and checked my zero (since I had to re-adjust my scope after finding a 2 degree cant on my last visit). The guy in question that gave a sarcastic "good luck" was missing the 1,000 yd target 2 out of every third shot with his AICS, Braked, beast of a rifle. I think he was shooting a 30-06 but didn't care to ask. It was definitely a LA caliber.

I took single shots at 250, 500 and 750 to test my scope and dope and hit each gong in about 90 seconds total. I'm no pro, but I take my time and have worked on getting consistent with my setup. I know my dope with 175 gr and can hit a grand with that, but I don't care to try with 168gr....I think it'd just be a waste of ammo.

After that, I let my buddy shoot my rifle (because he couldn't hit the 250 yd target with his), gave him a quick and dirty tutorial on breathing/trigger control/holding the rifle and had him ringing the gong at 500 (farthest he's ever shot).

No doubt there are more accurate rifles out there, but I wanted a light, accurate, inexpensive rifle that I can learn on and become proficient with on the bench or while hiking/hunting. In a few years, I'm sure I'll get a custom rifle from GA but for now, if I can make a ragged hole with 5 shots that can be covered with a penny with a $600 rifle, I'm happy. I just won't let Lowlight get his hands on it to "test." I know my stock sucks and don't need it in a 37 pieces to prove it.

BTW - the conditions were perfect. Any dinghole that can turn a knob and stay still should hit any of the gongs without issue. Wind blowing at your back, 90 degrees...perfect IMO.

 

[jsthntn247]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

If my $7,000 AI topped with a $3500 S&B just got beat by a $1200 dollar Savage topped with a cheap Vortex, I'd be pissed too.

 

[BrettSass844]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I get it, they shoot, you can make them look and act the part, no question at all there, however if a smith offered a Custom Savage for more than $3000 would you pay for it ? </div></div>

More than likely not. At this point I have no real need for a gunsmith. Only barrel manufactures. My buddies and I can handle the rest. That is one of the reasons I chose Savage in the first place. A lot of guys do however pay $2,000 - $3,000 for Kevin Rayhill's rifles. Last time I spoke with him he was backlogged to hell and back. From what I have heard about his work they are worth every penny!

 

[nobody13]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

I have Rem. and Savage. They both go bang!! Get out of your momma's basement and go shoot whatever you have and have fun. I think there are too many variables (Bullets,brass,powder etc.) to truly pass a harsh judgement on either.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

I never heard of Kevin Rayhill but a search showed one sold on LRH for $2275, with all the updates, waits, etc... a single smith being backlogged even a year doesn't say anything he could be building 20 rifles a year and still be backlogged that long.

Still, $2300 is not $3300 or even $5000 like some Remington built custom rifles... and from what I see, he has a 1/2MOA guarantee... as everyone stated they shot that out of the box.

I completely understand the home hot rodding, it;s the VW dune buggy of the gun world. So I get it, that was why we chose the Savage for the Ghost Dancer as a lot of the work was done by people like Danny Shumway, he was 16 years old at the time and build the Savage himself we used himself. So as a DIY rifle it is a good platform, I can easily see that.

As a PS, ownership doesn't equal competence, people with high dollar customs get beat all the time by good shooters with lesser equipment. Just because you can afford a AI, doesn't mean you have a clue how to shoot your AI. These forums are full of posts by guys with all the best and barely a clue.

 

[andrews1958]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

Sounds small but you asked. I just do not care for the Savage logo on the bolt.

Same thing with Cabelas clothing. It all has thier name spattered all over it

 

[JWV]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

I personally think that having a smith build a savage for you is a waste of time. If you want a smith gun get a remington. You want to do it yourself with minimal tools and overhead. Get a Savage. I have built 2 Savages from the ground up. One more budget, the other, not so much. As I shoot more and more, I know that my next build will not be a Savage, but rather an aftermarket action. Pierce or Defiance. It is just the progression of the obsession.

A big thing that kills the savage value is the fact that you can so easily work on them yourself. If I was looking to buy one, I would not want to pay the extra for one that a smith assembled knowing that I could have did all that work myself for free. 2500 dollar Savage becomes an 1800 dollar Savage in my mind.

 

[pjparker]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

I do not dislike a Savage or a Savage owner. I don't own one and probably won't, either - for the same reason that I don't own a .40 S&W.....I've got 3 .45 ACP's so why do I need a .40?

I've got 3 Rem 700's a Stiller Predator and an RPA Quadlock ...I don't see any need to buy a Savage.

Paul

 

[Taken Out Slak]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

Here's an idea. If you shoot a Savage and like it then quite worrying about everybody else and just shoot it. If you like your Savage and don't see the need for a GAP or AI yet then you ain't ready for one yet. When your ready for something more you'll know it and you'll know why. Here's the way i see it. I started gaming with a savage, then went to a Win 70 I'd put up against any thing out of the box and now I shoot an AI. So it don't matter who's at the range today I always got someone to go to lunch with.

 

[E. Bryant]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Remember, a winning rifle is about 3 things, barrels, bullets and the shooter. </div></div>

I would have thought this statement right here would have render superfluous most discussion about the OEM of the rifle, but I guess I have much to learn.

I'm proud to have a really nice GAP rifle, and I'm also proud to have a couple Savages that shoot extremely well when I do my part (as a side note, there is not an Accutrigger to be found as both of these rifles are over a decade old). It's no different to me than being able to enjoy a day of autocrossing a Miata after taking some hot laps around Daytona in a Porsche 911 GT2, despite the fact that there is a dramatic difference in the performance and financial metrics of those two vehicle.

 

[James0101]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

I've not owned a ton of rifles and certainly can't afford to have a custom. My 10fple in .223 consistently shoots under .5 at 100 and when I'm really on my game a couple of sub 1" at 300 yards typically it's around 2"+\-. It does this with $17 50rd box of fiocchi 40gr vmax. Love it so much I bought a donor 110 to build a 30.06 long range/hunting rig. I call it a donor but it's a complete factory sporter rifle that shoots 1" +\- at 100. But here I come McGowen, timney, and whoever makes a stock I like. Btw all groups are 5-10 rounds nowadays.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">GAP did it, I would say to make it look less "savage like"

I actually screwed up my initial post on it, the question was who would be willing to pay $3550 for a Savage, when I mentioned the case of ammo it changed the whole point. I'm not really interested in selling it, the point was regarding the cost.

I get it, they shoot, you can make them look and act the part, no question at all there, however if a smith offered a Custom Savage for more than $3000 would you pay for it ? </div></div>

Lowlight,

I see what you're saying there. However, I have barely $1k into my rifle. Basic barreled action was $300, New barrel-another $300 (closeout, but exactly what I wanted), recoil lug-$30, new bolt/lift kit, $50, Stock, $220 Barrel wrench $25.

So, I saved a bunch of money on the barrel change, my gunsmith around here charges me $100 to true and re-barrel an already cut blank. $200 if he has to cut the chamber for me. If I was to go total accuracy, I'm sure you'd want your smith to start with a blank. No turning on the barrel so no cost.

As noted, about one grand. It would probably go for about $500 is all, with the provenance that it accurately shot as far as one mile. If you went custom and ended up selling it you would lose about the same right now. If you bought a custom build 4-5 years ago and can sell it for $3500 you're probably making money.
There is a lot of strength in branding no doubt, but sometimes you have to ask if it's worth the initial investment.

I don't personally look at rifles as investments. Rather more like tools or toys depending on what I'm doing with them.

 

[Explorer]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

Like most production items, some are great while others are not so great. When you built to a price, compromises are made but Savages commonly shoot better than they should. And the abover average user can change barrels at home with min. tools.
The floating head is a great idea, I know of serious benchrest shooters who add Savage floating heads to their Rem 700 bolts and do FANTASTIC.
While they suffer from lots of custom add-ons, too many of those add-ons add little other than bragging rights.
Invest in a quality barrel when you need one and practice. There is a reason more Savage rifles are showing up on the line in F-class events, etc.
Just my .02 - for what its worth.

 

[JFComfort]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

Wow, learned a lot.

 

[JByrd]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

Entertaining .......some circle talk ....but entertaining. Ghost rifle is purdy."except fer the bolt knob" guess you didn't wanna totally remmynize it. Some rich dude on here prob. WILL pay youu $3550 but you may have to autograph the stock and add some xoxo's I got a 243 savage I paid $200 for and I always think about heavy barreling it,but then I ask myself wtf do I wanna spend that on a rifle that gets thrown around like a shovel in the back of my farm truck. That's why I bought it,cuz its cheap and it shoots and I don't care if it gets abused.

 

[3fingervic]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

I'm not brand myopic. In my opinion, dollar for dollar Savage rifles are more accurate than their Remington counterparts. I believe the Accu-trigger and the Accu-stock are better than Remington's offerings. The floating bolt head and the fact that most if not all Savages come with floating barrels adds to their accuracy.

I agree with LL that people won't pay $3000+ for a Savage custom. I think that's because someone that is willing can build his own for half that.

This is in no way a knock on the custom gun makers. IMO, these rifles shouldn't be compared to stock or garage built Savages or stock Remingtons for that matter. These guns don't have anything in common with Remingtons except bolt spacing (I realize that I'm simplifying).

This last part is going to get me into trouble, but here goes. Savage has had many guns that have seen military service. I don't know them off hand but if called out I will put it up here. I believe that Savage rifles would do just as well as Remingtons in the battlefield if they were modified as the latter are for their intended purpose.

 

[S12A]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 3fingervic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This last part is going to get me into trouble, but here goes. Savage has had many guns that have seen military service. I don't know them off hand but if called out I will put it up here. I believe that if Savage rifles would do just as well as Remingtons in the battlefield if they were modified as the latter are for their intended purpose. </div></div>

Savage made an SMLE No.4 MK1 during WW2. not sure of other rifles.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

They also made Lewis machine guns in WWI and Thompson machine guns in WWII. I understand they tooled up considerably in WWII and built heavy munitions.

 

[AdvenJack]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

I have really enjoyed this thread! There are guys that want
the more costly rifle for it's status; but here's the test
for me. Let's say I am the world's richest person; and I got
that way by building up a company from nothing. Assume that
I was raised in a middle class family with a stay-at-home mom
and my dad was a big city paid fire fighter. So I want value
for my dollar; it's a part of my roots. Now I don't need any-
thing to show off; because I and my wealth are famous. And
I like the simplicity of working on Savage rifles as I did while
a teen with dad; so I mess around with them now-a-days
changing barrels and what ever regularly. I have zero concern
regarding resale value. <span style="font-size: 11pt"> <span style="font-weight: bold">Like LL said above, exclude scope
& bi-pod.</span></span> On a fire fighters pay, can I on my own, constantly
put rifles together with a STEVENS action as the starting point
that consistantly beat GAP and the like rifles; for accuracy,
durability, etc.? If not, how close can I get; 90% to 95% at 1/3
or 1/4 the cost of the custom? Can the STEVENS bolt be made
less sloppy for a relatively small out-lay of cash and some
good hand work? What do I do regarding the trigger? Which bbl
co. do I go with? You guys get the point of this exercise. Let
us have your ideas! Thanks

 

[Teggy1]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AdvenJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Like LL said above, exclude scope and
bi-pod. On a fire fighters pay, can I on my own, constantly
put rifles together with a STEVENS action as the starting point
that consistantly beat GAP and the like rifles; for accuracy,
durability, etc.? </div></div>

Pretty sure that isn't what Lowlight said.

 

[AdvenJack]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You guys don't seem to get it...

This is my Savage tactical 10FP ...

This is its 5 shot group it shoots

Now, not only does it look the part, it also shoots the part, so with that said, so who wants to give me $3550 for it ? <span style="font-size: 11pt"><span style="font-weight: bold"> Scope and bipod not included...</span></span>

Been there done that, 10 years ago, & got the T-shirt...

</div></div>

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AdvenJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have really enjoyed this thread! There are guys that want
the more costly rifle for it's status; but here's the test
for me. Let's say I am the world's richest person; and I got
that way by building up a company from nothing. Assume that
I was raised in a middle class family with a stay-at-home mom
and my dad was a big city paid fire fighter. So I want value
for my dollar; it's a part of my roots. Now I don't need any-
thing to show off; because I and my wealth are famous. And
I like the simplicity of working on Savage rifles as I did while
a teen with dad; so I mess around with them now-a-days
changing barrels and what ever regularly. I have zero concern
regarding resale value. Like LL said above, exclude scope and
bi-pod. On a fire fighters pay, can I on my own, constantly
put rifles together with a STEVENS action as the starting point
that consistantly beat GAP and the like rifles; for accuracy,
durability, etc.? If not, how close can I get; 90% to 95% at 1/3
or 1/4 the cost of the custom? Can the STEVENS bolt be made
less sloppy for a relatively small out-lay of cash and some
good hand work? What do I do regarding the trigger? Which bbl
co. do I go with? You guys get the point of this exercise. Let
us have your ideas! Thanks

</div></div>

I'll agree with you there teggy1,

AdvenJack,

Does that mean, with all your millions, you would never own a Rolls Royce, or a Ferrari? Maybe a hard workin' Cadillac might be more along your line of thought?

I'll take the liberty of explaining what LL said, even though I missed it the first go round as well.

If you take the best known action type, the 700, and improve upon it, custom grade trued 700 footprint types, put the best barrel you can for it's intended use on it, the best stock you can under it, put a finely tunable trigger on it, it's going to sell for what your reputation is worth. Top end $3500. Lower end (qualified) $1500. A top end Savage with all the same stuff, if you can find it, might sell for $1500.

The custom Remington, right now, dollar for dollar, will hold it's value, the Savage won't. No matter how good it shoots, and what it has under it/on it.

 

[AdvenJack]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

SANDWARRIOR,
Mr Warren Buffet lives in a house valued at $700,000.

Sir, I failed to communicate what I had hoped to com-
municate to you, and maybe everyone. It's a mechanical
question about the basic STEVENS action; & the cost in
money and hard work to make it strongly compete with
and or beat customs that sell at 3 or 4 times the price.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AdvenJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">SANDWARRIOR,
Mr Warren Buffet lives in a house valued at $700,000.

Sir, I failed to communicate what I had hoped to com-
municate to you, and maybe everyone. It's a mechanical
question about the basic STEVENS action; & the cost in
money and hard work to make it strongly compete with
and or beat customs that sell at 3 or 4 times the price.
</div></div>

I don't think you failed. I and many others on this thread agree with you. The fact is a custom Rem 700 from a reputable builder will bring more than the basic/built up Savage/Stevens. Added: right now, that may not be the trend in 5 years? Who knows? Remington and Savage may go on an 'accuracy war' that comes right up close to customs.

And FWIW, Warren Buffet just lumped $5 bil. into BOA....their stock just fell down the outhouse hole a week later...


Added:

Also, even though his house is valued at $700,000 right now, do think if he passed away, that there isn't going to be a mad scramble to buy it?

 

[AKAce]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

I tried Hard Not to get into this thread. I shoot Savages (Mostly Stevens). I am Lower middle class... if that's what barely above poverty is. Shit I buy has to Work, I will buy the most Expensive if that's what it takes.

We shoot a good many matches, in some pretty miserable conditions. The Savages have not let me down. I am sure at some point something will break, I turn wrenches for a living and I know Very Well that Everything can break.

Lets look at the big picture... your ammo is inside a Barrel, it's held there by a bolt head and lugs with about .001 - .003 clearence, just flopping around in there... the firing pin hits the primer and it all goes Bang. All the Action is doing at this point is stopping the case from exiting the rear ! The Action is only there to give a cool way to insert rounds into the chamber, hold them there and carry the firing pin.

With a 1/4" Allen wrench and a punch I can rebuild a Savage bolt in the field between rounds. I can install the plethora of bolt handles on the market in just a Min. Everyone worth a damn makes Stocks for them, most of the big names make Triggers. Piles of Barrel makers sell Pre Fit barrels... just set the headspace and rock on.

To Date I have Lost every match I entered, But I have Never lost because of my Rifle.

I Shoot Savage because they get the job done, and I would trust my life to the rifles I have put together.

<span style="font-weight: bold">TONS of Other rifles work Also ! Find what you like and Shoot the fuckin things ! </span>