Sidearms & Scatterguns Why I will never buy another kimber

[Arbiter]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RedCreek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Like I said, the pin isnt the real issue, its wear, metal agianst plastic, sticking, galling and the smootheness of opperation vs a properly prepared steel or aluminum housing.</div></div>

Please cite evidence of this presenting an actual function or safety problem in long-term use.

Plastic MSHs look and feel disappointingly inferior to metal, but that necessarily doesn't mean they actually are.

Lots of people make their business 'upgrading' and 'fixing' issues that customers perceive in a given product. Since they have a financial stake in the issue, I tend to want more evidence than just their word.

 

[ArcticLight]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

Girlfriend bought a Stainless Kimber Custom 2 - never had an issue - damn thing is bullet proof.

She has limp wristed her 9mm's in the past and jammed them (Beretta Cougar but NOT the 92FS) - the Kimber - takes it and keeps on going - never had an issue.

That's two Kimbers operating flawless, we were shooting them once a week for a while there...

 

[Falar]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Arbiter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RedCreek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Like I said, the pin isnt the real issue, its wear, metal agianst plastic, sticking, galling and the smootheness of opperation vs a properly prepared steel or aluminum housing.</div></div>

Please cite evidence of this presenting an actual function or safety problem in long-term use.

Plastic MSHs look and feel disappointingly inferior to metal, but that necessarily doesn't mean they actually are.

Lots of people make their business 'upgrading' and 'fixing' issues that customers perceive in a given product. Since they have a financial stake in the issue, I tend to want more evidence than just their word. </div></div>

A poster on the previous page mentioned dropping his and breaking the plastic MSH.

 

[Arbiter]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Arbiter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RedCreek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Like I said, the pin isnt the real issue, its wear, metal agianst plastic, sticking, galling and the smootheness of opperation vs a properly prepared steel or aluminum housing.</div></div>

Please cite evidence of this presenting an actual function or safety problem in long-term use.

Plastic MSHs look and feel disappointingly inferior to metal, but that necessarily doesn't mean they actually are.

Lots of people make their business 'upgrading' and 'fixing' issues that customers perceive in a given product. Since they have a financial stake in the issue, I tend to want more evidence than just their word. </div></div>

A poster on the previous page mentioned dropping his and breaking the plastic MSH.</div></div>

Which proves that they can break, but not that it broke <span style="font-style: italic">because</span> it was plastic. I've seen pretty much every part on a 1911 break at one point or another - the only common factor is that nothing lasts forever.

The key question that should always be asked is, "How well does this compare to the alternatives?"

 

[chansen49]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

I paid 700.00 for a tactical custom 2, put 195.00 into it at Jim Hoag, its gotta be one of the nicest feeling 1911's Ive shot.. Feeds everything, accurate.. And didnt cost me an arm and a leg.


Ch

 

[dirkreader]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

I have a 12 year old gold combat that came from their custom shop. It runs perfectly, but I also had a CDP II about four years ago that ran poorly.

I would agree with the statements that their quality has slipped over the years.

 

[EddieNFL]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Which proves that they can break, but not that it broke because it was plastic. I've seen pretty much every part on a 1911 break at one point or another - the only common factor is that nothing lasts forever.</div></div>

The MSH is the only 1911 part I can't recall ever failing (aside from pins and most of the springs).

 

[FX44]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

I purchased a SS 4" Raptor and it had FTF issues, after working with Kimber they offered to pay to have it shipped back and polish the feed ramp. This gun was also finnicky about magazines. After 500 rounds of frustration (while trying to follow their break in procedure) I gave up and sold it. Now I have a Springfield TRP and WC CQB, both fire with no issues. I don't mean to bash the company but I'll never spend my money on a Kimber again.

 

[fasteddie565]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fast eddie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Kimber sent you a thumb safety and it just dropped right in?

That's tremendously dangerous. It's hard to conceive of a part that the fit is more important on than the thumb safety. I hope you know how to check for sear movement with it applied, because otherwise you might be coming on this forum one day talking about how your leg has a hole in it. </div></div>

Can you explain this? I am not questioning your knowledge, I just replace all of my strong side only thumb safeties with Ambis (A gun smith does it actually) and am uneducated as to what the issue is. </div></div>

Your gunsmith fits that particular thumb safety to that gun. The thumb safety is NEVER a drop-in part, and it MUST be fit to not allow ANY (none, zero, zilch, nada!) sear movement. The thumb safety and the half cock notch are the only things preventing you from having a hole in your leg if the sear slips off the hammer hooks. Stopping that from happening is (primarily) the job of the thumb safety.

http://www.cylinder-slide.com/1911safetyck.shtml

that site explains how to check it </div></div>

Ok, thanks, going there now to read,,,,,,,

I know the Gunsmith cautions me on the Ambi safeties in that they are not solid, that they have to be pressed together, kind of like two split rods. he said they are not as strong as a solid, single side safety.

 

[fasteddie565]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scooty Puff Sr.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a 12 year old gold combat that came from their custom shop. It runs perfectly, but I also had a CDP II about four years ago that ran poorly.

I would agree with the statements that their quality has slipped over the years.

</div></div>

I had an Ultra CDP II and had issues with it until I lapped the slide to the frame with toothpaste. It ran like a scalded monkey screwing a singer sewing machine after that. That saved the time and cost of a 300 rd break in period.

 

[Bolt_Overide]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">springfield's custom shop and customer service is amazing, you can find reviews all over the internet. have heard nothing but raving reviews and their custom shop will build on colt's, caspians, whatever, doesn't matter. </div></div>

This +1

The folks at springfield custom are AMAZING.

 

[Redcreek1]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

My evidence is the number I have replaced which <span style="text-decoration: underline">were</span> causing issues.

Most of my business is LE (Colt LE Armorer and Cylinder and Slide trained 1911 smith) and the 1911's we see typically have lots of use. The plasic housings dont hold up, neither do the MIM parts. I just replaced a plastic housing for one of the Highway Patrol's firearms instructors due to wear problems.

That's my proof.

My feeling is that Kimber and others charge a sufficient amount of money for thier guns to use better parts than they do. They get away with it because most people buy the pistol and shoot a few boxes of ammo and put it in a drawer.

Why do you suppose they are using plastic? Because its better? Or because its cheaper and helps thier margins?

Why does Wilson, Bear, Nighthawk, Brown, etc not use plastic and MIM parts?

I recently had a 1911 in from one of the top gun writers, who is also a 20+ year SWAT commander. I was just doing coating on this one, but he asked me to go through it while it was in the shop. The internals showed no visible wear at all (S7 tool steel). I asked how many rounds he had fired through this pistol and he replied over 15,000.

On the flip side, I have baggies full of Kimber intenral parts which show significant wear after only several thousand rounds.

Presently, I have six Kimbers in the shop with problems or for rebuilds. Rarely do I see any of the top brands in here with problems, mostly for coating or routine maintenance only.

If its not broke dont fix it is fine, but knowing what I know I personally would not have MIM parts in any of my 1911's or plastic mainspring housings. Replacing them isnt that expensive and thats the price you pay for peace-of-mind.

So, in summary, not only do they look and feel disappointingly inferior, in my experience they actually are.

As far as your last comment, proper stainless or carbon manspring housings are about fifty buck parts and what you would pay most smiths to propery prep it (polish the bore) and install it might buy him/her thier Big Mac for lunch that day, so I guess if he or she is starving that would constitute financial incentive, I suppose...

 

[Drifter]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber


I would be very interested to know exactly how many Kimber 1911s, Colts, Springfields are actually out there. What is the percentage of 1911s sold from each manufacture. Do they sell a ton more pistols compared to other manufacturers, it would be interesting to know whats out there and how their numbers stack up in a real world comparison.

I also would be curious about the ratio of folks that bash Kimbers who actually have first hand experience, and how many are just shit talkers who have read bad reviews and are parroting what they herd, or read on a forum. second and third hand accounts are really worthless info.

So far I have zero complaints about the one I own. I am not a hard core fan, but my personal experience with the Super carry Pro I own has been great. No issues in about 3500 rounds, so far so good.

 

[EddieNFL]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I also would be curious about the ratio of folks that bash Kimbers who actually have first hand experience, and how many are just shit talkers who have read bad reviews and are parroting what they herd, or read on a forum. second and third hand accounts are really worthless info.</div></div>

Probably equivalent to the number of folks who don't own one, but have a buddy with a dozen that have never failed.

 

[Downzero]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

Kimber probably could do better quality control and/or use better parts if they were making guns in Brazil or some other third world shithole instead of the US with American (read expensive) labor.

 

[Arbiter]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RedCreek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My evidence is the number I have replaced which <span style="text-decoration: underline">were</span> causing issues.

Most of my business is LE (Colt LE Armorer and Cylinder and Slide trained 1911 smith) and the 1911's we see typically have lots of use. The plasic housings dont hold up, neither do the MIM parts. I just replaced a plastic housing for one of the Highway Patrol's firearms instructors due to wear problems.

That's my proof.

My feeling is that Kimber and others charge a sufficient amount of money for thier guns to use better parts than they do. They get away with it because most people buy the pistol and shoot a few boxes of ammo and put it in a drawer.

Why do you suppose they are using plastic? Because its better? Or because its cheaper and helps thier margins?</div></div>

I have no doubt that it's cheaper. And I'm willing to accept the premise that it's statistically inferior on some level to the higher-priced alternatives. The question, though, is what do the numbers actually show?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why does Wilson, Bear, Nighthawk, Brown, etc not use plastic and MIM parts?</div></div>

Because they charge $3000 for a pistol, and know they have to differentiate themselves from the $1000 Kimber somehow? Because enough people will want an expensive 1911, and have the money to pay for it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On the flip side, I have baggies full of Kimber intenral parts which show significant wear after only several thousand rounds.

Presently, I have six Kimbers in the shop with problems or for rebuilds. Rarely do I see any of the top brands in here with problems, mostly for coating or routine maintenance only.</div></div>

Wilson Combat produced 2,415 pistols in 2009. Les Baer made 2,092. Ed Brown built 1,434. ATF lists nothing produced by Nighthawk in 2009.

Kimber manufactured 78,903 1911 pistols in 2009.

Statistically, for every 1911 made by WC, LB, and EB, Kimber cranked out more than thirteen pistols. If we assume that they fail at an equal rate between manufacturers, and assume that they're shot and used at an equal rate, then mathematically more than nine out of ten 1911s that come through your door should be from Kimber.

Anecdotal evidence alone isn't enough if the ratio of numbers is heavily skewed in favor of one brand, as is with Kimber. I have no doubt that a Les Baer is a superior firearm. What I doubt is the assessment that because it's not as finely made, and because you see more of them for repair, that logically Kimbers are of questionable quality.

 

[Redcreek1]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

My view is a bit more simplistic.

I get Kimber's with MIM parts in that have hammer follow, mushy triggers and other problems in and those problems are typically occuring after only a few thousand rounds. This is a relatively recent phenomenon since the widespread use of MIM parts and plastic housings. As more and more guns get out there in the hands of more and more shooters we are seeing how ell these parts are, or arent holding up, relative to the S7 and A2 tools steel internal parts and steel mainspring housings traditionally used.

I had a guy come in the other day with a Kimber Gold Combat Stainless ($2,295 list) to drop off another gun. The subject drifed onto his Kimber and he stated that after taking two four day handgun classes the trigger went south and he started getting hammer follow. He said he sent it back to Kimber for a rebuild. I showed him other parts out of several other Gold Combats, so he could see what MIM parts looked like after a few thousand rounds.

Other guns, including less expensive 1911's built before everything went MIM dont have those problems.

High quality S7 or A2 tool steel hammers, sears and dissconnectors will typically last as long as the slide and frame (50k to 60k rounds)

On the plastic mainspring housings, when you have a steel mainspring cap moving in a plastic housing bore and combine that with dirt and oil, which the metal cap grinds into the plastic bore, well, they wear out and high volume users (most of my clients are law enforcment and fall into that category) start seeing problems we never experienced with metal housings.

I think Kimber slides and frames are fine, barrels are just ok and internals are a bit less than ok these days. My optinion only

As far as volume and numbers, sure the more you have out there the odds are you will see more of that brand, but I think the parts quality has a lot more to do with the frequency than just the numbers.

Admittedly, you get what you pay for, but if the purpose of these forums is to share information and inform, then thats what I'm doing by sharing my experiences.

I've also seen lots of cost cutting from other brands these days too, like glued in plunger tubes and ejectors...

Quality is relative; to what your comparparing the Kimber to... The reality is just about everyone is using MIM parts and plastic housings in the sub $2k price range and some use extends into the $2,500 gun range. So, by that measure the Kimber is of equal, or perhaps better quality than comparable 1911's in that range, but would have to be considered, as you point out, of lesser quality than Wilson, Bear, Nighthawk, Brown, etc

Bottom line: Low volume shooters will probably be fine, high-volume should probably plan on a rebuild at some point...

I'll see if I can get some real closeup photos of the worn MIM parts and post them.

 

[Falar]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Kimber probably could do better quality control and/or use better parts if they were making guns in Brazil or some other third world shithole instead of the US with American (read expensive) labor. </div></div>

I think the same of the company you are referring to as I do of Kimber. There are actual American made alternatives in the same price range and both make far less use of the MIM process.

 

[oneshot onekill]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

OK... I'll throw in my experiences with Kimber. I've owned 2. An Eclipse Pro Target and an Ultra Carry. Both were acceptably accurate but I had a couple issues which render them useless to me. First and foremost: Why on earth would Kimber design these so you need a special little pin inserted into it in order to disassemble the pistol? And second (and this happened on both): What is it with the slide-stop getting jammed under the magazine follower after the last round, thus rendering the weapon unusable because the slide didn't catch and the magazine is now stuck in the magazine well? ( Of course, you can use a paper clip for disassembly but I don't happen to always think of keeping a paper clip in my pocket... And you can get that stuck mag out if you stop what you're doing, grab the bottom lip of the mag, if you can, and jerk the sucker out. Then insert the next mag and have to pull the slide back. Great fun when you're shooting on a course where speed is important.

My reason for these being FAIL points is simple. If I can't field strip a firearm without special tools or equipment it's useless... If the slide doesn't stay open after the last round and the magazine doesn't drop easily for fast reloading it's useless...

For me... Kimber = useless.

...But they look Great

 

[FNARSHOOTER]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

I have a Springfeild 1911 A-1 Stainless. I have over 3000 rounds thru it without a problem. It shoots as accurate as all my buddys high dollar 1911's.It will run any ammo (theirs won't) and cost me $600 brand new. If sombody gave me one of those over priced High dollar 1911's I would sell it and buy ammo for my "working class" weapon. All those overpriced "tactical" weapons are good for the midlife blues and mall ninjas.I see guys come into the range with these all day long and not a one will run worth a shit. Go ahead and stroke your ego and piss your money away. I'll keep shooting my lowly A1 while your "better weapon" is in the shop.

 

[agusta]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

While frustrating anything made by man can and will break regardless of the cost which is why as i've gotten older I focus more on the input of people on their customer service experiences with companies. I have 2 kimber pistols of which one is a safe queen and the other sees rare use on the range so I have fortunately had no problems with either or interaction with their customer service. However after seeing some of the posts about Kimber customer service I won't buy another especially after having a problem with another manufacturers pistol and had them go in my opinion above and beyone to correct the problem.

 

[Downzero]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

I'm still wondering how mine is still going after 20,000+ rounds. The parts that are still in it are the parts that everyone thinks are the worst: hammer, sear, disconnector, mag release, rear sight, hammer strut, grip and thumb safeties. If I hadn't blown up the barrel with a bad round of ammunition, that'd still be factory, too.

If MIM was half as bad as people said, I'd have a lot to worry about. My Kimber seems to be doing just fine, on borrowed time:



YMMV.

 

[Falar]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a Springfeild 1911 A-1 Stainless. I have over 3000 rounds thru it without a problem. It shoots as accurate as all my buddys high dollar 1911's.It will run any ammo (theirs won't) and cost me $600 brand new. If sombody gave me one of those over priced High dollar 1911's I would sell it and buy ammo for my "working class" weapon. All those overpriced "tactical" weapons are good for the midlife blues and mall ninjas.I see guys come into the range with these all day long and not a one will run worth a shit. Go ahead and stroke your ego and piss your money away. I'll keep shooting my lowly A1 while your "better weapon" is in the shop. </div></div>

Consider yourself lucky. I bought a Springfield 1911 as my first pistol and it has always been a shitpiece. To add insult to injury I then found out about them being made in Brazil, full of MIM, etc.

 

[Downzero]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a Springfeild 1911 A-1 Stainless. I have over 3000 rounds thru it without a problem. It shoots as accurate as all my buddys high dollar 1911's.It will run any ammo (theirs won't) and cost me $600 brand new. If sombody gave me one of those over priced High dollar 1911's I would sell it and buy ammo for my "working class" weapon. All those overpriced "tactical" weapons are good for the midlife blues and mall ninjas.I see guys come into the range with these all day long and not a one will run worth a shit. Go ahead and stroke your ego and piss your money away. I'll keep shooting my lowly A1 while your "better weapon" is in the shop. </div></div>

Consider yourself lucky. I bought a Springfield 1911 as my first pistol and it has always been a shitpiece. To add insult to injury I then found out about them being made in Brazil, full of MIM, etc. </div></div>

They also have basically the best warranty in the business, it will cost you NOTHING to get it to run 100%, and when you get it back, you will have a gun that has been meticulously gone through by an American gunsmith.

Although not ideal, if I bought a pistol for $800, sent it back to the company, and they spent $200 worth of labor making it perfect for me, I sure as hell wouldn't be here on the internet talking about what a piece of shit it was.

Then again, what would I know...I don't own any $3,000 1911s, and I've done most of my own gunsmithing.

 

[Redcreek1]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

Really, I dont know why some of you get all bent out of shape over people sharing their experiences.

As an LE Armorer/Gunsmith I do annual inspections on duty guns for several departments who let officers carry a selection of approved handguns. A lot of the 1911's are Kimber.

I also get guns in from individuals and am seeing consitent trends in MIM part related problems.

I'm genuinely happy for you that you got 20k rounds out of your Kimber and that the triger is as crisp as the day you took it out of the box.

My experience isnt consistent with your experience.

And, for the record, I dont own any $3,000 1911's or $4,500 1911's I build my own for a lot less than that.

As long as your happy and your gun runs fine that's all that matters, thank you for sharing your Kimber experience.

Regards,

-E

 

[Downzero]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RedCreek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Really, I dont know why some of you get all bent out of shape over people sharing their experiences.

As an LE Armorer/Gunsmith I do annual inspections on duty guns for several departments who let officers carry a selection of approved handguns. A lot of the 1911's are Kimber.

I also get guns in from individuals and am seeing consitent trends in MIM part related problems.

I'm genuinely happy for you that you got 20k rounds out of your Kimber and that the triger is as crisp as the day you took it out of the box.

My experience isnt consistent with your experience.

And, for the record, I dont own any $3,000 1911's or $4,500 1911's I build my own for a lot less than that.

As long as your happy and your gun runs fine that's all that matters, thank you for sharing your Kimber experience.

Regards,

-E </div></div>

I think you're:

1. full of shit
2. using frank's forums to try to hawk your shit without ponying up the benjamins.

It's amazing you haven't been banned. Good gunsmiths are slammed with business. They don't have to hawk their shit on a forum without paying to be a dealer.

 

[Arbiter]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneshot onekill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK... I'll throw in my experiences with Kimber. I've owned 2. An Eclipse Pro Target and an Ultra Carry. Both were acceptably accurate but I had a couple issues which render them useless to me. First and foremost: Why on earth would Kimber design these so you need a special little pin inserted into it in order to disassemble the pistol? And second (and this happened on both): What is it with the slide-stop getting jammed under the magazine follower after the last round, thus rendering the weapon unusable because the slide didn't catch and the magazine is now stuck in the magazine well? ( Of course, you can use a paper clip for disassembly but I don't happen to always think of keeping a paper clip in my pocket... And you can get that stuck mag out if you stop what you're doing, grab the bottom lip of the mag, if you can, and jerk the sucker out. Then insert the next mag and have to pull the slide back. Great fun when you're shooting on a course where speed is important.

My reason for these being FAIL points is simple. If I can't field strip a firearm without special tools or equipment it's useless... If the slide doesn't stay open after the last round and the magazine doesn't drop easily for fast reloading it's useless...

For me... Kimber = useless.

...But they look Great</div></div>

There's several critical flaws in your argument.

First off, it's both entirely possible and not all that difficult to disassemble and reassemble a bushingless Kimber without tools. Most of the time I'm too lazy to bend up a paperclip for my 3" Kimber, so I just pull the slide off as a complete unit and pry out the recoil assembly.

Second, I'm curious to know who's producing a 3" 1911 that uses a Browning-style barrel bushing and recoil assembly. You generally have to make a sacrifice somewhere in going to a shorter barrel length, and that's part and parcel with the system.

As far as magazines go, it sounds suspiciously like you're using factory Kimber mags, or some similarly-obsolete magazine design. I'd be deeply interested in trying to replicate your malfunctions using a proper Wilson Combat magazine; I strongly suspect your problems would disappear by switching to a quality mag.

 

[RADcustom]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RedCreek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Really, I dont know why some of you get all bent out of shape over people sharing their experiences.

As an LE Armorer/Gunsmith I do annual inspections on duty guns for several departments who let officers carry a selection of approved handguns. A lot of the 1911's are Kimber.

I also get guns in from individuals and am seeing consitent trends in MIM part related problems.

I'm genuinely happy for you that you got 20k rounds out of your Kimber and that the triger is as crisp as the day you took it out of the box.

My experience isnt consistent with your experience.

And, for the record, I dont own any $3,000 1911's or $4,500 1911's I build my own for a lot less than that.

As long as your happy and your gun runs fine that's all that matters, thank you for sharing your Kimber experience.

Regards,

-E </div></div>

I think you're:

1. full of shit
2. using frank's forums to try to hawk your shit without ponying up the benjamins.

It's amazing you haven't been banned. Good gunsmiths are slammed with business. They don't have to hawk their shit on a forum without paying to be a dealer. </div></div>

You calling someone full of shit. That's funny.

Regardless of his intentions, he will likely be more of an asset to the forum than you have been.

I'm still waiting for your explanation on how you evaluate recoil spring wear.

 

[Redcreek1]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

What exactly am I hawking?

I directly responded to your comment "Then again, what would I know...I don't own any $3,000 1911s, and I've done most of my own gunsmithing"

With: "And, for the record, I dont own any $3,000 1911's or $4,500 1911's I build my own for a lot less than that" To which, I was reffering to my own personal guns, hence the word "own" which impiles for myself, vs the word "sell" which implies somthing different...

Did I post prices? Offer to do work for anybody?

So, were you hawking your services?

You obviously cant handle any opinion that doesnt agree with your own.

I think you should be banned for violating the forum rules Frank just posted about civil discourse and being polite, etc which I was.

 

[tomcatfan]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

This has been a funny thread to read. But I just wanted to chime in on the SA Mil-Spec 1911 I just bought 4 months ago. I purchased the gun brand new (minus the two fired cartridges; Maryland sucks). So far I must say that I am not happy with it either. With that being said, I'm not trying to bash Springfield Armory in any way. I have an XD and love it. But my gun has failed to feed on the range many times with both round nose and flat nose ammo. I have noticed that it has gotten better the more I shoot it and I do understand that there is a break in period. But my Ruger P-89, Berretta 92-FS, or SA XD-40 Tactical has never failed to feed ANYTHING I’ve fed it regardless of break in. Although SA has awesome customer service, I think it’s important to understand that all of the 1911 makers have their issues. It is a 100 year old design.

 

[EddieNFL]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I think it’s important to understand that all of the 1911 makers have their issues. It is a 100 year old design.</div></div>

I disagree. Some makers have issues, such as poor QC, using inferior parts or poor workmanship. The 100 year old design worked 100 years ago and works today. I own a fair number of 1911s that were reliable from round one...no "break-in" required to solve problems that should have been solved before leaving the factory.

One of the more common remarks used to defend Kimber's required break-in is they're tightly built. Anyone who has owned a Baer will tell you Kimbers are as loose as crackwhore looking for a hit.

 

[brunop]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

My Baer was tight, is tight, and runs like a house-a-fire.

 

[mburd4]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

I thoroughly enjoy my springfield. However I didn't buy a custom gun. I bought a used police issue for 250 and bought a few upgrade parts. I am lucky my bro-namath is a gunsmith because he used the parts, made adjustments to the trigger and feed ramp, added beavertail and skeletonized hammer and really just went all over the gun. So end result is a gun that rivals any custom kimber, Para or Springfield I've shot and I saved a shitload of money. Right around 450 total for my investment. Beats the hell out of paying 2100 out the gate.

 

[tomcatfan]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I disagree. Some makers have issues, such as poor QC, using inferior parts or poor workmanship. The 100 year old design worked 100 years ago and works today. I own a fair number of 1911s that were reliable from round one...no "break-in" required to solve problems that should have been solved before leaving the factory. </div></div>

Well I stand corrected sir, I guess what I actually meant to say is that my Sprinfield Armory Mil-Spec sucks too. I really was just telling myself the 1911 design has issues trying to justify why my most expensive hand gun is also my least reliable.

With that being said, I looked into the issues that I was having (ftf's) and it didn't seem that uncommon. Why do so many have this same problem? Even with Sprinfield Armory's "great" customer service, its not cost effective for any company to keep paying to fix things after they are sent out. It's so much cheaper to get things right the first time.

 

[Jeffvn]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

I have owned 2 Kimbers, an early Gold Combat II with internal extractor, and a Classic Custom, series I. The Gold Combat I regret selling to this day. I love my Series I classic Custom, and it goes to every pistol class that I take. It runs like a champ, is accurate, and takes the abuse of 300-500 round days without blinking. I would buy Kimber again, but only Series I.

My most recent 1911 purchase was an Ed Brown Molon Labe Commander. Excellent piece of gear. It may some day replace my customized Colt Commander as my carry piece of choice.

JeffVN

 

[EddieNFL]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With that being said, I looked into the issues that I was having (ftf's) and it didn't seem that uncommon.</div></div>

Is that based on personal or internet knowledge?

I consider the Glock to be arguably at least as reliable as any handgun ever built. But I've witnessed more failures from Glocks than 1911s in over 25 years of USPSA/IDPA competition. What does that prove? I've witnessed more failures from Glocks than 1911s in over 25 years of USPSA/IDPA competition...nothing more.

I guarantee I can walk through the barracks of your choice and find at least one "expert" that will sing the blues of the 1911...and he's never even fired one, but he has a buddy...

 

[oneshot onekill]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Arbiter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneshot onekill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK... I'll throw in my experiences with Kimber. I've owned 2. An Eclipse Pro Target and an Ultra Carry. Both were acceptably accurate but I had a couple issues which render them useless to me. First and foremost: Why on earth would Kimber design these so you need a special little pin inserted into it in order to disassemble the pistol? And second (and this happened on both): What is it with the slide-stop getting jammed under the magazine follower after the last round, thus rendering the weapon unusable because the slide didn't catch and the magazine is now stuck in the magazine well? ( Of course, you can use a paper clip for disassembly but I don't happen to always think of keeping a paper clip in my pocket... And you can get that stuck mag out if you stop what you're doing, grab the bottom lip of the mag, if you can, and jerk the sucker out. Then insert the next mag and have to pull the slide back. Great fun when you're shooting on a course where speed is important.

My reason for these being FAIL points is simple. If I can't field strip a firearm without special tools or equipment it's useless... If the slide doesn't stay open after the last round and the magazine doesn't drop easily for fast reloading it's useless...

For me... Kimber = useless.

...But they look Great</div></div>

There's several critical flaws in your argument.

First off, it's both entirely possible and not all that difficult to disassemble and reassemble a bushingless Kimber without tools. Most of the time I'm too lazy to bend up a paperclip for my 3" Kimber, so I just pull the slide off as a complete unit and pry out the recoil assembly.

Second, I'm curious to know who's producing a 3" 1911 that uses a Browning-style barrel bushing and recoil assembly. You generally have to make a sacrifice somewhere in going to a shorter barrel length, and that's part and parcel with the system.

As far as magazines go, it sounds suspiciously like you're using factory Kimber mags, or some similarly-obsolete magazine design. I'd be deeply interested in trying to replicate your malfunctions using a proper Wilson Combat magazine; I strongly suspect your problems would disappear by switching to a quality mag. </div></div>

I understand what you're saying and you're probably right. The part about the special tool or paper clip was what I read in the owner's manual when I first got them. I had a hard time getting past that. As far as the mags, that problem... Regardless of who's magazines are in the gun... Is completely unacceptable. I just spent a rather large sum of money on what were supposed to be the "best" production 1911 style pistols available and I have to buy aftermarket magazines to get them to work??? Mmmm... FAIL!
But keep in mind... This is just me. Others might be fine with this.

 

[Downzero]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

That's the wrong attitude to have. The 1911 is produced by so many different manufacturers that expecting every gun to run with every magazine is borderlining on the ridiculous. If Glock had to design a gun to run on 20+ different kinds of magazines, all built to different specs and with different theories of function, I'm willing to bet "Glock Perfection" would be anything but.

 

[Arbiter]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneshot onekill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I understand what you're saying and you're probably right. The part about the special tool or paper clip was what I read in the owner's manual when I first got them. I had a hard time getting past that. As far as the mags, that problem... Regardless of who's magazines are in the gun... Is completely unacceptable. I just spent a rather large sum of money on what were supposed to be the "best" production 1911 style pistols available and I have to buy aftermarket magazines to get them to work??? Mmmm... FAIL!
But keep in mind... This is just me. Others might be fine with this. </div></div>

If I buy a Springfield Armory, the mags are being replaced with Wilsons. If I buy a Colt, the mags are being replaced with Wilsons. If I buy a Para, the mags are being replaced with Wilsons. If I buy a Dan Wesson, the mags are being replaced with Wilsons. If I buy a Kimber, the mags are being replaced with Wilsons.

See a trend?

If I buy a Wilson...well, I'm probably still going to replace the 47Ds that most Wilson Combats include, with the low-profile 47DCBs instead.

 

[Redcreek1]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

Boy, I hate to agree with Downzero, but he's right.

There is a crap load of differnt 1911 mags out there and a crap load of differnt 1911's.

Setting the poor quality mags aside and only considering the top quality brands, Wilson, Chip McCormic, Brown, etc and running these in different top quality 1911's some mags just dont work well in some guns.

Suffice to say the right combo will run like a house of fire all day long. And, you just cant beat a good 1911 trigger and 1911 ergonomics.

 

[FNARSHOOTER]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

Chip McCormic 8 rd work for me.I think it's the same old story "blame the weapon" then after they spend way too much lie about performance, Most of the time the practice they get "sorting the P.O.S. out" helps them inprove and they call it "break in"

 

[Falar]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Arbiter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneshot onekill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I understand what you're saying and you're probably right. The part about the special tool or paper clip was what I read in the owner's manual when I first got them. I had a hard time getting past that. As far as the mags, that problem... Regardless of who's magazines are in the gun... Is completely unacceptable. I just spent a rather large sum of money on what were supposed to be the "best" production 1911 style pistols available and I have to buy aftermarket magazines to get them to work??? Mmmm... FAIL!
But keep in mind... This is just me. Others might be fine with this. </div></div>

If I buy a Springfield Armory, the mags are being replaced with Wilsons. If I buy a Colt, the mags are being replaced with Wilsons. If I buy a Para, the mags are being replaced with Wilsons. If I buy a Dan Wesson, the mags are being replaced with Wilsons. If I buy a Kimber, the mags are being replaced with Wilsons.

See a trend?

If I buy a Wilson...well, I'm probably still going to replace the 47Ds that most Wilson Combats include, with the low-profile 47DCBs instead.

</div></div>

I always heard outstanding things like this about Wilson magazines and this is why I stocked up on them. Later on after having loads of strange FTE failures I learned that Wilson had notoriously weak magazine springs and feedlip issues. I've yet to have any problems with Tripp or Checkmate though.

 

[Downzero]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

My Tripp mags need to go back to him to get them straightened out (9mm). I've had no problems with my Wilsons. CMC, they've worked fine for years but now some of them are starting to get stuck in the gun and not want to drop free (they've got some miles on them). Point being: even the best can have issues.

 

[milo 2.0]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

Redcreek,
I have two kimbers, bought in April and May of 1999, one a Gold Combat, $1115.00, and a Gold Match. Do these have the MIM horsecrap?
The Gold Match has the hammer follow trick, but only on the last shot if the slide doesn't lock back. And the barrel link pin is loose.
The Gold Combat is still my bedroom and pickup gun, it is a nice piece, and the tritium sights still glow. And I do own Les Baer's and a Ed Brown, the Brown being the nicest 1911 I've put my hands on.
Today if I was looking for guns in Kimbers price range, I would go with Colt, they have some nice looking stuff out now.
Please don't laugh, but I traded a satin nickel 1982 70 series Colt for a Kimber combat carry. I think there is still a portion of my head stuck in my rectum from the transaction.

Oh, I didn't think by your posts you were trying to peddle your wares.
Keep your head up.
Milo

 

[Redcreek1]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

Milo,

That era of Kimber Gold Combat/Gold Match to the best of my knowledge werent using MIM parts.

If you are comfortable detail stripping your 1911 then remove the hammer, sear and dissconnector.

On a MIM hammer there are typically three small circles in the metal surrounding the hammer pin hole. On the sear they are typically on the sear legs and up on the nose of the sear. On the dissconnector you will find them on both sides of the part.

Thats how to identify MIM parts.

Regards,

-E

 

[bondoscustomz1]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

I had an issue with my first Kimber but that was the only one I ever had a problem with or at least any major issue with. Don't laugh but it was A BP Ten II. It was the worst 1911 I have ever owned.

 

[EddieNFL]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is a crap load of differnt 1911 mags out there and a crap load of differnt 1911's.</div></div>

Yep. Akin to calling all automobiles crap because (insert brand here) builds lemons.

 

[Shatuponthee]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Savage 10fp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This has been a funny thread to read. But I just wanted to chime in on the SA Mil-Spec 1911 I just bought 4 months ago. I purchased the gun brand new (minus the two fired cartridges; Maryland sucks). So far I must say that I am not happy with it either. With that being said, I'm not trying to bash Springfield Armory in any way. I have an XD and love it. But my gun has failed to feed on the range many times with both round nose and flat nose ammo. I have noticed that it has gotten better the more I shoot it and I do understand that there is a break in period. But my Ruger P-89, Berretta 92-FS, or SA XD-40 Tactical has never failed to feed ANYTHING I&#146;ve fed it regardless of break in. Although SA has awesome customer service, I think it&#146;s important to understand that all of the 1911 makers have their issues. It is a 100 year old design. </div></div>

Love my XD too, "the 1911 of polymer pistols"

1. the 1911s are made in Brazil by Imbel (Latin America)
1a. the SA with NM marked by the serial # (usually TRPs)are finished by American Gunsmiths.

2. the XD Croatia (Not Latin America)

FBi calls that a clue

 

[Arbiter]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My Tripp mags need to go back to him to get them straightened out (9mm). I've had no problems with my Wilsons. CMC, they've worked fine for years but now some of them are starting to get stuck in the gun and not want to drop free (they've got some miles on them). Point being: even the best can have issues.</div></div>

Magazines are a disposable item. After a certain amount of use and abuse, it's time to ditch 'em and get new ones. That goes regardless of manufacturer.

 

[jrswanson1]

Re: Why I will never buy another kimber

Wow, a Kimber bashing thread? After 2k rounds of mid to full power 10mm loads, my STII hasn't broken yet. I did ditch the Kimber mags and got some CMCs since they actually work. My last 3-gun match I ran my Kimber with no problems. Maybe y'all need to step up to a better caliber?

Jim