• It's Hunting Season: Show Us Your Rack!

    Hunting season is finally here and we want to see pictures of your rack! Show us what you've got and we'll throw in a few t-shirts to people that send pics 👀

    View thread
  • Having trouble using the site?

    Contact support

Rifle Scopes Why is FFP more expensive?

orkan

Primal Rights, Inc.
Banned !
Minuteman
  • Oct 27, 2008
    4,268
    4,008
    South Dakota, USA
    www.primalrights.com
    Seems that a lot of companies are now coming to market with FFP scopes. This is quite exciting. It seems, however, that all of them have one thing in common - Higher prices than their comprable SFP models.

    Is it more difficult to make a FFP scope than a SFP?

    Or ar they just cashing in on the tactical shooter types?
     
    Re: Why is FFP more expensive?

    I don't believe that it is more expensive to just producing a FFP scope than an SFP scope. However, since the internal design for FFP, new reticles, and cams when converting from MOA to MILS, are different, somebody has to pay for that RD.

    Stuff like, new tooling, jigs, testing, reticle design, new cams, technical drawings, CNC programs and the like, don't come for free.

    So you are paying not only for the cost to produce an FFP MIL/MIL scope, your also paying for everything that went into developing it.

    SFP technology has been around for years, and the RD is now a sunk cost, and fully paid for.
     
    Re: Why is FFP more expensive?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't believe that it is more expensive to just producing a FFP scope than an SFP scope. However, since the internal design for FFP, new reticles, and cams when converting from MOA to MILS, are different, somebody has to pay for that RD.

    Stuff like, new tooling, jigs, testing, reticle design, new cams, technical drawings, CNC programs and the like, don't come for free.

    So you are paying not only for the cost to produce an FFP MIL/MIL scope, your also paying for everything that went into developing it.

    SFP technology has been around for years, and the RD is now a sunk cost, and fully paid for. </div></div>

    I wouldn't think it that involved. I've always understood it as described here. Simply a different order of lenses in relation to reticle or etched lense.

    So I was curious if there was something else that I was missing, beyond the simple fact that they want to charge more for the in-demand item?
     
    Re: Why is FFP more expensive?


    The FFP scopes must be in a cleaner atmosphere when assembling them. A small spec that will not show up in a SFP scope will in a FFP scope
     
    Re: Why is FFP more expensive?

    I believe it's mostly a matter of doing things and making parts differently than these companies have done up to now. The two reticle types are different sizes as well....I believe the FFP reticles are much smaller.

    Because this is new for them, and the target audience is smaller; the per-unit cost is higher.
     
    Re: Why is FFP more expensive?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rafael</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Because this is new for them, and the target audience is smaller; the per-unit cost is higher. </div></div>

    That must be the bulk of it, I would think.
     
    Re: Why is FFP more expensive?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: orkan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rafael</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Because this is new for them, and the target audience is smaller; the per-unit cost is higher. </div></div>

    That must be the bulk of it, I would think. </div></div>

    and you would be wrong.....again
    wink.gif
     
    Re: Why is FFP more expensive?

    Given your demonstrated expertise at the extensive use and application of FFP scopes I failed to realize the need to regale you with long posts of detailed information. My bad.
     
    Re: Why is FFP more expensive?

    The question I have is how can someone who posts repeatedly with optics reviews, the use of said optics, and their superior skill of applying those optics be so uninformed as to not know what makes that optic valuable?????

    There is at least 6-7 completely obvious factors in an FFP scopes expense that I listed in my head as soon as you asked this question, and admittedly I am very far from either being an expert or informed on the matter. However, given your past representations of your knowledge and skill you should have easily known them as well, why don't you???
     
    Re: Why is FFP more expensive?

    Its so fun having you two follow me around posting useless shit in any thread I participate in. I'm glad I could impact your lives in such a way.

    I know the benefit of anti-lock brakes on my car... I don't have to know how they function to know they work.

    I know the benefit of a FFP, but I do not understand the design ramifications that would justify the increased cost. Instead of harrassing me, why don't you jot down some of your 6-7 reasons as to why they are so much more difficult to mechanically design and build and actually contribute something. If not, what is the reason for your posts? Just to be obnoxious? You need some attention?
     
    Re: Why is FFP more expensive?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: orkan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Instead of harrassing me, why don't you jot down some of your 6-7 reasons as to why they are so much more difficult to mechanically design and build...</div></div>
    Don't hold your breath waiting for the 6 to 7 reasons.
     
    Re: Why is FFP more expensive?

    Gee, some people piss on his posts for being too much of a know-it-all, and then he gets pissed on for NOT knowing it all and asking what sounds to me like an intelligent question.

    Tough crowd these days.

    Where'd I put my rocks???
     
    Re: Why is FFP more expensive?

    So, does anyone have any experience with optics manufacturing that could shed some light here?

    Is my view that FFP vs SFP is just a different order of lens placement in the erector assembly too simplified? Is there some more to it. A few of the reasons listed make a bit of sense.

    1) The air needs to be cleaner, or crap on the lens will be more visable.
    2) The reticles are actually smaller.

    Are these both true? Is there more to it?

    It seems that FFP models are upwards of 30% higher in price than comprable SFP models. So I have really been wondering lately just how much "extra" money they are getting just for being in demand.
     
    Re: Why is FFP more expensive?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Grump</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gee, some people piss on his posts for being too much of a know-it-all, and then he gets pissed on for NOT knowing it all and asking what sounds to me like an intelligent question.

    Tough crowd these days.

    Where'd I put my rocks??? </div></div>

    It would definitely be an understandable question if it hadn't come from someone who had already claimed to have enough knowledge to not only review and critique the scopes in question but also apply them correctly. In both cases his claims fell far short and he tried the deny, deny, deny, then counteraccuse approach rather than simply admit he was talking out his ass.

    Magnum dood come up for air...sorry for the delay we caught a couple calls so I was away from the funbox.

    So Ork here ya go.

    Yes there is demand for FFP scopes, however that demand is not for $200 Tasco replacements, the demand lies in a higher end market = higher prices.

    There is also a significantly lower number of participants in this market in relation to most sfp scopes which means total volume of production can not be exploited as easily to turn a profit, smaller market = higher prices.

    The participants in that market also have much higher demands of their equipments performance and durability. They don't just use them to hunt coyotes. Therefore these scopes were initially designed to meet very high standards. This means higher quality raw materials ie. glass, coatings, metals = higher prices.

    Given the already small target markets for these scopes, many subgroups demand very specific features that may be utilized by one group of users but not by another, this further fractures the market and increases R&D and production costs = higher prices

    In an FFP scope the reticle must be accurate at all magnifications which means more engineering time to get it correct. This also translates into much higher manufacturing costs for the etching company making the reticle. Also any extra features illumination etc. that functions with the reticle introduces another set of variables that must be taken into account = higher prices.

    As has been stated the necessity for clean manufacturing is needed which means slower production rates, more highly skilled employees, and more testing to meet QC standards = higher prices.

    Marketing and selling these scopes also incurs increased costs due to the need to properly educate and train a more knowledgeable distribution network to the many options, features, and uses = higher prices.

    So all in all if you take into account the factors of increased complexity, design/egineering, manufacturing, performance, and end user expectations and couple it with smaller scale markets it should be easily understandable that there is a price difference between FFP and a corresponding SFP optic.


    Sadly it just isn't a matter of the big evil scope manufacturers sticking it to you cuz you want a new tacticool scope for your truck gun.
     
    Re: Why is FFP more expensive?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bigsky23</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why does a Vette cost more than a Camaro? Cause it's better.

    Sorry, just being simple minded. </div></div>

    You would be surprised to know how much it actually cost to design a vehicle no matter the make or model. Numerous amount of testing and safety that must be passed. R and D research like stated with any new product is going to be more expensive along with supply and demand. Corvette is an ICON car, where camero is not.
     
    Re: Why is FFP more expensive?

    I have two IOR 2.5x10x42 scopes [I got them both used off SH locally].
    One is FFP, and one is SFP.
    I like the SPF much better.
    The FFP 1/2 mill MP8 marks on 2.5X are like looking at marks 4.5" apart at 100 yards with a naked eye... or like resolving the legs on an ant on the floor while I am standing up.
    Give up on that, but the black reticule is so fine, that it is hard to find on a green background.
    2.5X should be for rapid targeting, but it is not going to happen with FFP and my 58 year old right eye.

    What does it all mean?
    The 2.5x10x42 FFP only gets used on 10X.
    The 2.5x10x42 SFP get used on both 2.5X and 10X.

    If someone would like to trade their SFP for my FFP, I will throw in a few bucks.
    Do biz with me, and FFP is cheaper.
     
    Re: Why is FFP more expensive?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: smokshwn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In an FFP scope the reticle must be accurate at all magnifications which means more engineering time to get it correct. This also translates into much higher manufacturing costs for the etching company making the reticle. Also any extra features illumination etc. that functions with the reticle introduces another set of variables that must be taken into account = higher prices.
    </div></div>

    +1 and thanks for saving me the typing. FFP reticles are much tougher to do right. Now mil knobs....no idea why they are more, just supply/demand I guess.
     
    Re: Why is FFP more expensive?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Boomholzer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Orkan,

    Try opticstalk.com you can post and discuss various optic questions all week long. It is obviously catered to the topic.

    There is also talk on hunting & shooting coyotes.

    www.opticstalk.com

    HTH </div></div>

    Stare.gif
     
    Re: Why is FFP more expensive?

    smkshwn, all you did is just sumize everything that has already been said. No specifics what so ever in regard to what makes it much more difficult to build a FFP mechanically.

    I'm looking for specifics in a technical discussion and you are too busy taking shots at me for shit that was said in a different thread that you just can't get over. Grow the fuck up, and move on.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In an FFP scope the reticle must be accurate at all magnifications which means more engineering time to get it correct. This also translates into much higher manufacturing costs for the etching company making the reticle.</div></div>

    Why? SPECIFICALLY.
     
    Re: Why is FFP more expensive?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In an FFP scope the reticle must be accurate at all magnifications which means more engineering time to get it correct. This also translates into much higher manufacturing costs for the etching company making the reticle. Also any extra features illumination etc. that functions with the reticle introduces another set of variables that must be taken into account = higher prices. </div></div>

    If the reticle is is accurate at one magnification, it will be accurate at all other magnifications so long as the reticle size change is directly proportional to the change in magnification

    I expect that the amortization of manufacturing costs is the biggest factor. As noted, FFP scopes have a much more limited market. Many years ago, some cheap scopes had the reticle on the FFP. For a long time (prior to the popularity of mil-dot and similar reticles) reticles that changed size when magnification changed power was considered undesirable by the buying public. Times change.

    Of course that doesn't exclude that a manufacturer changes what the market will bear. That is the basic nature of capitalism.
     
    Re: Why is FFP more expensive?

    Orkan,
    I thought smokshwn was more than civil in his response. Maybe we can handle the rest of the thread as adults. I have to agree with Guntech and a couple of other comments made.

    Not assuming everyone has a business or economics background, amortization is just the function of proportionally spreading the expense of an intangible asset over the asset's assumed service life. Companies can do it equally over a time period, expense it all at once, or use a couple other methods. Depending on when and how they amortize the R and D cost it will show either higher assets now or higher assets later. It is really how you want to portray the company to consumers and investors.

    Because of this, they will attempt to recoup some of their cost through higher prices, but can only do so if the market is willing to accept it. People confuse Supply and Quantity supplied as they do Demand and quantity demanded. Supply and demand are the curves and only shift when something acts to make manufacturing easier or harder. When that happens, the whole curve shifts. That is the Supply and Demand. The quantities supplied and demanded deal with moving ALONG the supply and demand curves. This is how you get surpluses and shortages. If the curves do not move due to an outside force, you will have an area below or above the equilibrium point. Above=excess, below=shortage. Anyway, if people won't buy it at that price there will eventually become an excess in the market and then the curves will shift to correct it. One always FOLLOWS the other, they never happen simultaneously.

    Finally, product differentiation can enable a company to charge a premium. You know, "If the military uses the scope it must be amazing!" That determines the markup they can feasibly charge. It is the same as me saying that I would pay 1.50 for a coke before I would drink a 1 dollar Pepsi. You see many people out there that are firm in paying the 1K premium for the optic they feel best meets their needs.

    You would need to contact of the optics manufacturers and ask them about their comparative cost of R and D and manufacturing. Tie that into the way they amortize R and D and the way in which they depreciate machinery and that will show you whether or not they are trying to show short term or long term gains. Lastly, take a look at the current manufacturers and their price points for FFP scopes. With the exception of Vortex, most are in the neighborhood of 2K. We'll see what happens if Vortex gets the PST right.

    Just some economics that most people don't know about or fully understand. Accounting classes really opened my eyes.

    Josh
     
    Re: Why is FFP more expensive?

    Thanks minordamage. I understand the capitalist variables as others have stated, supply and demand etc, but I was trying to find out what makes them mechanically more difficult to produce, if anything, or if it is just the market forces you've listed rather than production limitations that drive cost up.
     
    Re: Why is FFP more expensive?

    You are not paying attention. Although it would seem from reading SnipersHide that everyone out there buys mil/mil FFP scopes, nothing could be farther from the truth.

    A mil/mil FFP tactical scope is in a tiny, tiny, niche market and therefore needs more ROI for the maker (MK4's are a tiny slice of Leupy's market compared to hunter scopes-main reason Leupy doesn't give a rat's ass about tactical shooters. The PRS submission is the first time they've made a significant change in a long time).

    The retooling and R&D aren't recouped by a huge landswell of orders.

    Manufacturing-wise a SFP scope only needs to be close to mil subtensions, as long as its a true mil somewhere close to where its claimed to be. An FFP reticle must be dead nuts on (and will change a tad subtension-wise if you adjust your diopter).

    Close is much easier to produce dead nuts on.....
     
    Re: Why is FFP more expensive?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Manufacturing-wise a SFP scope only needs to be close to mil subtensions, as long as its a true mil somewhere close to where its claimed to be. An FFP reticle must be dead nuts on (and will change a tad subtension-wise if you adjust your diopter).</div></div>

    That makes sense, yes. So does each unit have to be held to tighter tolerances than a SFP? Or does each unit take more time to assemble as each one needs to be "calibrated" rather than just thrown together?

    In a SFP scope, which lenses move when the magnification is changed? Does the reticle move with them, or is it stationary? How is this movement different if at all, in a FFP?
     
    Re: Why is FFP more expensive?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are not paying attention. Although it would seem from reading SnipersHide that everyone out there buys mil/mil FFP scopes, nothing could be farther from the truth.


    </div></div>

    I am seeing more sniper fashion at the shooting ranges, gun shows, and in Shotgun News.
    It is mostly the young men who have the AR15, the FAL, the AK, the Glock, ect. are now getting the latest sniper thing.

    I think Sniper's Hide is currently a trendsetter in the gun culture.
     
    Re: Why is FFP more expensive?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: orkan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Manufacturing-wise a SFP scope only needs to be close to mil subtensions, as long as its a true mil somewhere close to where its claimed to be. An FFP reticle must be dead nuts on (and will change a tad subtension-wise if you adjust your diopter).</div></div>

    That makes sense, yes. So does each unit have to be held to tighter tolerances than a SFP? Or does each unit take more time to assemble as each one needs to be "calibrated" rather than just thrown together?

    In a SFP scope, which lenses move when the magnification is changed? Does the reticle move with them, or is it stationary? How is this movement different if at all, in a FFP?

    </div></div>

    Let's not turn this into a personal Attack please
     
    Re: Why is FFP more expensive?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Manufacturing-wise a SFP scope only needs to be close to mil subtensions, as long as its a true mil somewhere close to where its claimed to be. An FFP reticle must be dead nuts on (and will change a tad subtension-wise if you adjust your diopter).

    Close is much easier to produce dead nuts on.....

    </div></div>
    I don't follow your logic here. I have a SFP scope, but it's a mil/mil combination with the mil dot reticle representing 1 mil between dots at 12X. Why is there not a need for accurate subtensions in my scope, yet there is in a FFP mil/mil scope?
     
    Re: Why is FFP more expensive?

    Did you ever check (at a measured distance with a yardstick or such) to see if the dots were 1 mil at EXACTLY 12 power? Between the reticle's placement in the scope and the marking of the power ring you may find it properly subtends at the marked power or just to either side of it (and still be in manufacturing tolerance).

    Not saying all FFP are perfect either, all scopes should have their subtensions checked.
     
    Re: Why is FFP more expensive?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">all scopes should have their subtensions checked. </div></div>

    Checking both the reticle and the accuracy of the elevation adjustments should be done on any new scope.

    I have encountered many SFP scopes where the reticle was <span style="font-weight: bold">not</span> accurate at the power which the manufacturer claimed, and have almost invariably found that the markings on the power ring were not accurate, so the power ring needed to be carefully marked at the half-power point if use of the reticle at half-power was desired.

    Tests of reticle and adjustment accuracy should be done on FFP scopes as well.
     
    Re: Why is FFP more expensive?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Manufacturing-wise a <span style="color: #FF0000">SFP scope only needs to be close </span>to mil subtensions, as long as its a true mil somewhere close to where its claimed to be. <span style="color: #FF0000">An FFP reticle must be dead nuts on</span> (and will change a tad subtension-wise if you adjust your diopter).

    <span style="color: #FF0000">Close is much easier to produce dead nuts on.....</span>

    </div></div>
    I was hoping you would address your inference that less care is taken to construct an SFP scope than an FFP scope. Further, you infer machining tolerances aren’t nearly as tight in a SFP scope as an FFP scope, which would logically mean one couldn’t really trust the adjustments in a SFP scope. For what I paid, well, traded for my scope, it better be Space Shuttle quality.
     
    Re: Why is FFP more expensive?

    If what I posted was inferred to be a blanket statement that SFP scope manufacturers use less care in construction than FFP manufacturers, someone was reading with an eye to argue.

    You all want the bottom line on why anything costs more than anything else that does a similar job?
    -because thousands of people given everything they have to support the pursuit of our beliefs, our economy, and our way of life! Its a free country, they price, we buy!
     
    Re: Why is FFP more expensive?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: smokshwn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Grump</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gee, some people piss on his posts for being too much of a know-it-all, and then he gets pissed on for NOT knowing it all and asking what sounds to me like an intelligent question.

    Tough crowd these days.

    Where'd I put my rocks??? </div></div>

    It would definitely be an understandable question if it hadn't come from someone who had already claimed to have enough knowledge to not only review and critique the scopes in question but also apply them correctly. In both cases his claims fell far short and he tried the deny, deny, deny, then counteraccuse approach rather than simply admit he was talking out his ass.

    Magnum dood come up for air...sorry for the delay we caught a couple calls so I was away from the funbox.

    So Ork here ya go.

    Yes there is demand for FFP scopes, however that demand is not for $200 Tasco replacements, the demand lies in a higher end market = higher prices.

    There is also a significantly lower number of participants in this market in relation to most sfp scopes which means total volume of production can not be exploited as easily to turn a profit, smaller market = higher prices.

    The participants in that market also have much higher demands of their equipments performance and durability. They don't just use them to hunt coyotes. Therefore these scopes were initially designed to meet very high standards. This means higher quality raw materials ie. glass, coatings, metals = higher prices.

    Given the already small target markets for these scopes, many subgroups demand very specific features that may be utilized by one group of users but not by another, this further fractures the market and increases R&D and production costs = higher prices

    In an FFP scope the reticle must be accurate at all magnifications which means more engineering time to get it correct. This also translates into much higher manufacturing costs for the etching company making the reticle. Also any extra features illumination etc. that functions with the reticle introduces another set of variables that must be taken into account = higher prices.

    As has been stated the necessity for clean manufacturing is needed which means slower production rates, more highly skilled employees, and more testing to meet QC standards = higher prices.

    Marketing and selling these scopes also incurs increased costs due to the need to properly educate and train a more knowledgeable distribution network to the many options, features, and uses = higher prices.

    So all in all if you take into account the factors of increased complexity, design/egineering, manufacturing, performance, and end user expectations and couple it with smaller scale markets it should be easily understandable that there is a price difference between FFP and a corresponding SFP optic.


    Sadly it just isn't a matter of the big evil scope manufacturers sticking it to you cuz you want a new tacticool scope for your truck gun.



    </div></div>

    You mean it isn't the little optic elves?
     
    Re: Why is FFP more expensive?

    Seriously, Sometime if I could afford the experience, it would be fun to deconstruct a few scopes just to see what really IS in there. As with all other things in general, I would suppose it actually does take quite a bit of added work to make FFP function
    correctly..... emphasis on "correctly". If anybody would care to send me a donor S&B
    to deconstruct, feel free to send me a PM.
     
    Re: Why is FFP more expensive?

    Orkan,

    This was all the digging I could muster, but here is a patent for a Leupold scope. You can search for others on the same site. I guess if you were to print it all off you could write in the component names on the diagram on page 1.

    Enjoy

    Josh
     
    Re: Why is FFP more expensive?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: laylowlong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seriously, Sometime if I could afford the experience, it would be fun to deconstruct a few scopes just to see what really IS in there. As with all other things in general, I would suppose it actually does take quite a bit of added work to make FFP function
    correctly..... emphasis on "correctly". If anybody would care to send me a donor S&B
    to deconstruct, feel free to send me a PM.</div></div>

    make sure you You Tube that experience. I would love to see that.
    eek.gif
     
    Re: Why is FFP more expensive?

    As of this morning, I am not getting any pm's for that donor S&B.



    Warning: this story may or may not be true, however that has never stood in the way of many others, and why let the truth stand in the way of a good story.
     
    Re: Why is FFP more expensive?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Magnumdood</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Manufacturing-wise a SFP scope only needs to be close to mil subtensions, as long as its a true mil somewhere close to where its claimed to be. An FFP reticle must be dead nuts on (and will change a tad subtension-wise if you adjust your diopter).

    Close is much easier to produce dead nuts on.....

    </div></div>
    I don't follow your logic here. I have a SFP scope, but it's a mil/mil combination with the mil dot reticle representing 1 mil between dots at 12X. Why is there not a need for accurate subtensions in my scope, yet there is in a FFP mil/mil scope? </div></div>
    My limited understanding of the difference between SFP and FFP is that the space between dots represents one mil at 6x, 8x, 10x, etc., etc., etc., all the way up to max zoom. I would guess that to be able to accomplish that would take a little more technology, which, IMO, justifies the extra cost. I don't think a quality SFP scope would have less accurate mil spacing. Their attention to quality could be based, however, on whether or not that mil spacing is accurate at the zoom they say it is.
     
    Re: Why is FFP more expensive?

    I have to be honest. I like both SFP and FFP scope for different uses. If someoe could combine them I think I'd be willing to pay some extra money. Ideally I think the scopes cross hairs should be in the second focal plane. I also think that the subtensions, or hash marks, or dots, or whatever, should be put on the the first focal plane.

    This would solve the major problem with a FFP and that is as you zoom in or out, you don't suffer from a gigantic reticle at 25x and a tiny one at 5x.

    Additionally it would preserve what everyone likes about a FFP scope-correct subtensions at all powers.

    That I would pay extra for. But until that happens, I guess I'll settle for paying extra on FFP scopes only....
     
    Re: Why is FFP more expensive?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brand692</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...........
    If someoe could combine them I think I'd be willing to pay some extra money. Ideally I think the scopes cross hairs should be in the second focal plane. I also think that the subtensions, or hash marks, or dots, or whatever, should be put on the the first focal plane.......
    </div></div>
    Of course, you meant to say that the angular markings would be in the first focal plane.

    Someone was talking about a new scope with that very feature set.
    I think they were referring to it as a dual-plane reticle concept.

    http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...8475#Post388475