Why is larue never compared?

[sheepdog697]

I'm wondering why larue is never compared between LMT vs HK vs KAC vs SCAR?

I have zero experience in Larue. At the moment I'm very interested in LMT and I like the quick change barrel feature.

My buddy has an OBR, and he's recommending the larue large frame that has the "quick change" barrel.

It's pretty hars to find comparison videos online between the two, but very easy to find comparisons on the brands I listed. Am I missing something?

Before anyone mentions JP, I've owned/own JP large frame and small frame and can understand why they aren't necessarily considered in the "battle rifle" discussion. They're outstanding precision guns, but not really the same comparing to these others.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

It's not 2005 anymore. That's why.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Larue isn't well liked on this and some other forums. Regardless on the rifles being "good" or "bad," you're just not going to see comparisons places he isn't liked.

He has a large fan base and there are still plenty of LE agencies using them. This just isn't the place you are gonna see much about them.

 

[RUTGERS95]

I'm wondering why larue is never compared between LMT vs HK vs KAC vs SCAR?

I have zero experience in Larue. At the moment I'm very interested in LMT and I like the quick change barrel feature.

My buddy has an OBR, and he's recommending the larue large frame that has the "quick change" barrel.

It's pretty hars to find comparison videos online between the two, but very easy to find comparisons on the brands I listed. Am I missing something?

Before anyone mentions JP, I've owned/own JP large frame and small frame and can understand why they aren't necessarily considered in the "battle rifle" discussion. They're outstanding precision guns, but not really the same comparing to these others.

the only firearm I'd include in that comparison would be Centurion Arms and Radian but LMT and KAC are the top dogs. LaRue was always overhyped, accurate early on but never a 'battle rifle'


I'm off the LMT wagon, CS pissed me off and tired of 2yrs of qc failures

CA for the win

 

[houndog]

I own a couple of LaRue's (one a couple of years old, the other I've had for 15+ years). When you could buy an Ultimate upper kit (for something like $800, if my memory is correct) they were a great value. Accurate and well made. Prices have really jumped recently, and at their current level I just think they're are better options. MBT triggers are still pretty good, but they've also gone up in price.

 

[Lowlight]

When he switched to his own barrel machine everyone jumped ship and finding accurate models got harder. Nobody wants to wait for you to figure out how to rifle a barrel.

Like started above, in 2005 it was all LaRue all the time, now his booth at SHOT is empty and everyone shouts Giesselle now. If you go down the Giesselle Isle at Shot it's like old LaRue

The reason he is not well liked on this forum is long and distinguished, to include Mark calling up Rifles Only trying to get me fired while at the same time attempting bribe Jacob to do it when he said no.

 

[bigjake83]

 

[Basher]

Probably because everybody else has progressed, or their products are worth what they charge for them. Not so much anymore with Larue…

 

[Jsp556]

Mark could ruin a wet dream and his fanboys are worse than the BCM horde.

All mfg’s seem to go through trouble at some point. Some right the ship and others fade away.

 

[Trigger Monkey]

Exactly, when you pay $400 for a basic SPR mount and $150 for a bipod mount that fuck up your rails in a world where ADM exists, I don't care how many stickers and dillo dust they throw in the box, that ain't worth it.

 

[BCP]

I'm wondering why larue is never compared between LMT vs HK vs KAC vs SCAR?

I have zero experience in Larue. At the moment I'm very interested in LMT and I like the quick change barrel feature.

My buddy has an OBR, and he's recommending the larue large frame that has the "quick change" barrel.

It's pretty hars to find comparison videos online between the two, but very easy to find comparisons on the brands I listed. Am I missing something?

Before anyone mentions JP, I've owned/own JP large frame and small frame and can understand why they aren't necessarily considered in the "battle rifle" discussion. They're outstanding precision guns, but not really the same comparing to these others.

Well for starters they lost the marketing war. Making stupid shit like his "C NOTE". Switching to his own barrel making apparatus which aren't as good as the lothar walther blanks. Selling 4k dollar rifles with 250$ barrels. Raising prices to the moon. Larue company revenue is likely behind geissele right now.

 

[RUTGERS95]

Well for starters they lost the marketing war. Making stupid shit like his "C NOTE". Switching to his own barrel making apparatus which aren't as good as the lothar walther blanks. Selling 4k dollar rifles with 250$ barrels. Raising prices to the moon. Larue company revenue is likely behind geissele right now.

lol forgot about the c note.

agree, not using the lothar Walther blanks was his first big mistake

 

[Milf Dots]

La Who?

 

[sheepdog697]

Well shit, that got answered real quick. Haha

Thanks gents.

 

[sheepdog697]

the only firearm I'd include in that comparison would be Centurion Arms and Radian but LMT and KAC are the top dogs. LaRue was always overhyped, accurate early on but never a 'battle rifle'


I'm off the LMT wagon, CS pissed me off and tired of 2yrs of qc failures

CA for the win

I was interested in KAC until I saw the current market prices.

Is LMT having a lot of issues currently?
Seems like the main gripe is being over gassed which is easily fixed by going with a different gas tube.
I didn't realize they were having qc issues

 

[sheepdog697]

ADM/American Defense Manufacturing makes great ARs and arguably the best full ambidextrous lower on the market.
LMT
LWRCi
HK
Geissele
BCM

What is the release date on the large frame geissle stuff?

Id really like JP accuracy but not a JP. As mentioned I've owned a few, and still have a .223wylde. They're amazing guns, just wanting something different

 

[Milf Dots]

What is the release date on the large frame geissle stuff?

Id really like JP accuracy but not a JP. As mentioned I've owned a few, and still have a .223wylde. They're amazing guns, just wanting something different

I forgot this was about large frame- please disregard.

 

[Huskydriver]

Adm is here now.....

 

[RUTGERS95]

I was interested in KAC until I saw the current market prices.

Is LMT having a lot of issues currently?
Seems like the main gripe is being over gassed which is easily fixed by going with a different gas tube.
I didn't realize they were having qc issues

I've owned more LMTs than most people have eaten at McDonalds lol there is overgrassed and then there is LMT and for the overgrassed crowd, it's mostly for a can but I can honestly say that I've not had any issues with gassing. LMTs flat out work in any condition and environment, similar to turn of century colts (who were accused of being overgrassed as well). Yes LMT has had awful qc and cs the past two years. I get dealer pricing on all things with them and even I won't buy from them any longer. My last interaction with the cs had me telling them to fk off.

KAC is overrated by the fanbois and are obscenely over priced but they work and are very reliable. both KAC and LMT have innovations that set them apart

I tell everyone now to buy Centurion Arms as you get early Noveske/LaRue like accuracy out a platform that works really well and you're supporting a legit vet who loves this country. Corrie told me recently they are going back into the large frame mkt

You couldn't give me a geiselle with their shitty operating practices

but you'll find many in the 2a community overlook things they shouldn't (they still buy Rainer, DD etc...fools)

 

[Conqueror]

I had a brand-new LMT grenade launcher extractor break. They didn’t even offer me a free replacement, charged me like $12 plus shipping to get a new one for a stamped metal part. Made me hesitant to buy any of their factory rifles.

 

[blbennett1288]

Seekins SP10’s are another good option. I switched from a LMT MWS to a SP10

 

[MikeMiller]

My completely honest opinion is the reason fewer use LaRue these days is Mark LaRue. He seems to want to attack attack attack anyone that he sees as a threat and not listen to criticism at all Selling complete large frame lowers for 400.00 destroyed the large frame rifles value and I am not the only one that thought that was a shit thing to do to guys who paid retail for a complete rifle Let’s see complete upper 2k and complete lower 400.00 equals 2400 not the 4.25k he was charging for the OBR

I still shoot his rifles because they work and machine work is generally excellent His current barrels are very accurate but tend to be slow compared to others of equal value. An example of this is my 18” OBR barrel is actually 40fps slower than my 16” Savage MSR10 barrel with same lots of federal 175 gmm. I love my OBR but with his constantly changing prices and only making what he feels like I am not likely to buy another new system from him.

Before anyone says I cherry picked the Savage MSR barrel it was just one of ten I tested and the Savage16” barrels were within 10fps of each other My Noveski’s and other top tier also were significantly faster than the LaRues

On LMT I have not used nearly the number of LMT products Rutgers has so my sample size is small ( under ten large frames) but very happy with those

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Seeking sp10 is current best large frame for money. The mws while overgassed in factory config..can be tamed easy with brt tubes. It's a non issue today. Jp is another good option.

I have owned all the bands over the years and if I was buying today, those 3 plus the new giessle mrgg( it's legit as fuck) when it it's commericl market years from now. They have a huge contract to fill first. Kac has just priced and underproduced themselves put of the market. You can buy and sp10 and stick a zco ontop for the cost of a new 6.5cm sr25. Fuck that.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Also...the 6mm and 22 arc has made the the small frame ar very competitive and cheaper to build/run than the large frame. Unless you need the additional energy on target...a small frame in 22 or 6 arc would be an easy choice over a large frame in 6 or 6.5mm. Less parts compatability issues, more options, much better chance of the gun running correctly. Easy choice.

 

[Jsp556]

Larue alienated all but his most rabid fan base. He is his own worst enemy. His guns work.

Same as any other mfg, Customer Service and QC is better for the government. They’ll get what they want and need while the general public get different treatment.

 

[MikeMiller]

Follow up to the barrel speed
Friend just texted from range. Brand new 18” LaRue 5.56 barrel. 2663 fps with duplicate Mil 77 grain load. Same load and lot of loads averages 2826 in an 18” BCM barrel and 2640 fps in Noveski 14.5” barrel so while it shoots tiny groups it’s has no more effective range than the 14.5 Noveski. He is disappointed to say the least

 

[Tictacticaltimmy]

One good thing I'll say about Larue is their newest handguard/receiver design is excellent. The handguard attaches directly to the receiver for true free floating, and is thinner and substantially better ergos and design compared to the similar concept Aero M4E1 enhanced uppers.

I don't want one bad enough to buy a whole upper of theirs, but if they sold handguard/upper receiver sets I would buy a few in a heartbeat.

 

[6.5SH]

One good thing I'll say about Larue is their newest handguard/receiver design is excellent. The handguard attaches directly to the receiver for true free floating, and is thinner and substantially better ergos and design compared to the similar concept Aero M4E1 enhanced uppers.

I don't want one bad enough to buy a whole upper of theirs, but if they sold handguard/upper receiver sets I would buy a few in a heartbeat.

They do offer it but who knows how long you'll wait for anything not in stock:

Stealth 2.0 Receiver and Handguard - LaRue Tactical

Before they killed off their other M-lok handguards last one I ordered took 18 months to deliver...

 

[kthomas]

Larue alienated all but his most rabid fan base. He is his own worst enemy. His guns work.

Same as any other mfg, Customer Service and QC is better for the government. They’ll get what they want and need while the general public get different treatment.

Mark Larue and Kevin Brittingham must've received the same public relations education...

 

[PappyM3]

Back in the old days, I loved his mounts. But, there are better mounts now. From an objective standpoint, there are these issues:

- He only does 3 round “groups” as part of QC before declaring a barrel/upper really precise
- He is very skimpy on the technical and material specifications of his products. Most of his descriptions are hand wavy

 

[Redmanss]

 

[Stevo86]

Never gets old!

 

[Jsp556]

Back in the old days, I loved his mounts. But, there are better mounts now. From an objective standpoint, there are these issues:

- He only does 3 round “groups” as part of QC before declaring a barrel/upper really precise
- He is very skimpy on the technical and material specifications of his products. Most of his descriptions are hand wavy

“Texas Spec”

 

[PappyM3]

“Texas Spec”

Did you know his Accurizer is “Made of aluminum used in advanced Jet Fighters”? Not just any jet fighters but advanced, capital letter Jet Fighters.

https://www.larue.com/products/AccARizer/

Oh, and their barrels. No idea what treatment they have. Just they have a “10,000” barrel life.
https://www.larue.com/products/larue-complete-22-6-5-creedmoor-match-grade-upper/

https://www.larue.com/products/5-56-stealth-barrel-k/

Oh, but the chambers do have “XTRAXN technology”, whatever that means.

 

[Stevo86]

Did you know his Accurizer is “Made of aluminum used in advanced Jet Fighters”? Not just any jet fighters but advanced, capital letter Jet Fighters.

https://www.larue.com/products/AccARizer/

Oh, and their barrels. No idea what treatment they have. Just they have a “10,000” barrel life.
https://www.larue.com/products/larue-complete-22-6-5-creedmoor-match-grade-upper/

https://www.larue.com/products/5-56-stealth-barrel-k/

Oh, but the chambers do have “XTRAXN technology”, whatever that means.

Alien tech

 

[Huskydriver]

I mean why use anything else when you are innovating like this...

https://www.larue.com/products/larue-cagulowa/

 

[Conqueror]

I would rather use that than a C-Note

 

[sheepdog697]

The seekins sp10s look pretty nice, and I'll have to look into Centurion arms.

I honestly just might snag another JP. They've been for me the most accurate factory ARs I own.

 

[Tictacticaltimmy]

They do offer it but who knows how long you'll wait for anything not in stock:

Stealth 2.0 Receiver and Handguard - LaRue Tactical

Before they killed off their other M-lok handguards last one I ordered took 18 months to deliver...

Thanks! For some reason I could not find it when I searched some months ago.

The pictures only show the old style keymod so no way to know if its the new style mlok. Also weird they Only offer 2 lengths, 15" would be what I'm looking for. Makes me worried they are just getting rid of surplus old stock that didn't make it to uppers/rifles.

 

[PappyM3]

Thanks! For some reason I could not find it when I searched some months ago.

Probably because it’s under handguards instead of uppers. I had no idea they sold them separately until someone showed me the link. I had been looking under uppers, like how every other AR parts website lists them. Apparently I was being an idiot.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

I still have several older LaRue mounts and “stuff” and they still work great! Not getting rid of them.

But don’t think I’ve bought anything for almost 15 years from them. Mainly because I moved to Sphur and some other makers that were innovating down paths that I followed.

But never had problems with their stuff. As folks have said… not 2005 any more.

That said I just picked up a cool old USO ST-10 with BDC and if I can find a c 2002 LaRue mount for it… I’ll probably snap that up because it was a great combo.

Sirhr

 

[roostercogburn98]

OP, don’t listen to any of these people. They are still hating on a Harris as well.

Todays motto is shoot what makes you happy

 

[6.5SH]

Thanks! For some reason I could not find it when I searched some months ago.

The pictures only show the old style keymod so no way to know if its the new style mlok. Also weird they Only offer 2 lengths, 15" would be what I'm looking for. Makes me worried they are just getting rid of surplus old stock that didn't make it to uppers/rifles.

The pics are out of date, is M-lok only in the selection boxes. The lack of a 15" option is another place where they just aren't keeping up with the market, as said many times it is not 2005 anymore.

 

[Lowlight]

Harris sucks, anyone who says otherwise never learned to grow as a shooter and don’t understand nuisance nor have they progressed as a shooter to understand the difference. Crappy groups is thing.

For a AR I like JP, I have all of the ones listed above. Seekins too rocks, the first Seekins were SH branded parts Glen did on a machine in his garage

 

[sheepdog697]

Harris sucks, anyone who says otherwise never learned to grow as a shooter and don’t understand nuisance nor have they progressed as a shooter to understand the difference. Crappy groups is thing.

For a AR I like JP, I have all of the ones listed above. Seekins too rocks, the first Seekins were SH branded parts Glen did on a machine in his garage

View attachment 8401851

I've got a 223wylde factory jp that shoots lights out. Got a 6.5cm lrp off of the post exchange from here a few years back and traded it like an idiot.

Maybe I'll try and find an LRI20

 

[sheepdog697]

Harris sucks, anyone who says otherwise never learned to grow as a shooter and don’t understand nuisance nor have they progressed as a shooter to understand the difference. Crappy groups is thing.

For a AR I like JP, I have all of the ones listed above. Seekins too rocks, the first Seekins were SH branded parts Glen did on a machine in his garage

View attachment 8401851

Are you finding anything else that is as accurate as these are from the factory besides maybe the GAP10?

 

[Lowlight]

Oh ya, my GAP10 is amazing, it’s 1/4 minute easily and all my Frank D POF rifles are right there as well.

I can dance with a semi auto as I have far too many hours and miles teaching them to the military and government.

Seekins
GAP
POF w/rock barrels
JP
Wilson ( are awesome too)
Hodge Defense

These all kick much ass, Craddock is top notch too. Today we better ARs than ever before

 

[AirgunnerPCP]

Harris sucks, anyone who says otherwise never learned to grow as a shooter and don’t understand nuisance nor have they progressed as a shooter to understand the difference. Crappy groups is thing.

For a AR I like JP, I have all of the ones listed above. Seekins too rocks, the first Seekins were SH branded parts Glen did on a machine in his garage

View attachment 8401851

What's the nuance that makes Harris bipods suck? I mostly use TBAC bipods now but can't say that Harris bipods ever held my performance as a shooter back.

 

[MikeMiller]

Harris does not suck. It was the best we had in 1984. But it’s not 1984 and many bipods are better now. Innovate, change or find a new business is the norm

 

[RUTGERS95]

I had a brand-new LMT grenade launcher extractor break. They didn’t even offer me a free replacement, charged me like $12 plus shipping to get a new one for a stamped metal part. Made me hesitant to buy any of their factory rifles.

they should have sent you a new one for free, that's a bs move on their part imho

that said, I did like the LAT handguards LaRue used to make but someone earlier said many are turned off by Mark and I agree with that.
I also don't think his pricing on the lowers blew up the large frame mkt for them as they were overpriced to begin with. Marks' sales weren't great so it was a smart move on his part to move product