Why is my lapua 223 brass not chambering and sizing?

[Kadams1563]

If you provided him with the starline brass then he probably chambered it to close on starline with no resistance. Many people use brass casings instead of gages to chamber rifles.

Just so happen he chambered it pretty snug. Not that big of a deal except taking the rifle down.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

So min spec chamber is what 1.460" essentially correct?

Mine is coming out to 1.455"

Lapua brass is coming out to 1.456"-1.458"

Starline is coming out to 1.455"-1.456"

He needs to cut it to at least 1.458" or 1.460" then correct?

He's a match director so I won't be able to talk to him and run it up this evening, but I want to make sure all these measurements are right and make sense when I tell, and show him all this.

The only way you can use that measurement is if you're using a .330 datum gauge.

 

[TheOfficeT-Rex]

The question was originally about brass sizing, and the spec for cartridge (ie, brass) is max (published) ± tolerance. so the data as shown is relevant. The tolerance is shown in the highlighted area as -.007 ("minus up to 7 thou" vs Max)

Didn't say it wasn't relevant, just that didn't answer the question:

The chamber technically needs to chamber 1.460 brass, but the chamber itself would be slighlty above brass size... i believe was the point raised by post #47. If I'm readin the print correctly, the min-spec on the chamber calls for ±1.463 to 1.464 (more accurately, 1.4636 as published).

(@TheOfficeT-Rex please double check my logic).

The SAAMI chamber drawing headspace is 1.4636 min to 1.4736 max, so that would be correct for a min spec chamber. ETA: and yes, a max length cartridge is longer than the min spec chamber.

A set of go/nogo gauges should answer this pretty quick. Should drop freely closed on a go, and stiff on a no-go. From OP, sounds like this guy knew it was tight on a go gauge...

 

[kyotekiller25]

Didn't say it wasn't relevant, just that didn't answer the question:
View attachment 8374043



The SAAMI chamber drawing headspace is 1.4636 min to 1.4736 max, so that would be correct for a min spec chamber. ETA: and yes, a max length cartridge is shorter than the min spec chamber.

A set of go/nogo gauges should answer this pretty quick. Should drop freely closed on a go, and stiff on a no-go. From OP, sounds like this guy knew it was tight on a go gauge...

From what I understand, he told me he chambered it to just barely close on his go gauge, so he definitely knew it was a very tight chamber. I just didn't know it was going to be that tight...Not sure he did either, but he's a gunsmith and I'm not. I just figured tight meant it would still chamber all brass amd be snug, not be so tight that it wouldn't chamber.

So if it was you guys, would you have him go 1.460" or 1.463" then? I'm taking your guys advice over his at this point. I appreciate all your guys help and expertise on this.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

From what I understand, he told me he chambered it to just barely close on his go gauge, so he definitely knew it was a very tight chamber. I just didn't know it was going to be that tight...Not sure he did either, but he's a gunsmith and I'm not. I just figured tight meant it would still chamber all brass amd be snug, not be so tight that it wouldn't chamber.

You could chamber a barrel to minimum of 1.4636" saami, and it would still be .003" shorter than the maximum saami brass. This won't do anything catastrophic, just make it hard to close the bolt (which is annoying). If he was needing to put effort into the bolt to chamber a 1.4636 gauge, then it's likely outside of saami. Which, I'm not sure why he'd prefer that. Unless you gave him some of the starline brass to chamber off of.

If he in fact did chamber the barrel to be tight on a min spec go gauge, I'd ask him to explain his thought process.

 

[kyotekiller25]

This is what he had to say when I messaged him about it at the range when I fired the 4 shots with lapua brass and noticed something wasn't right. He did say to bring a piece of Lapua brass and he would happily cut the chamber deeper.

 

[kyotekiller25]

He claims he doesn't chamber off the brass, or the starline dummy round I gave him. He plainly stated above he chambers to barely close on a go gauge, on the tighter side.

I can't really make out his thought process on being that tight, but maybe some of you can?

Sounds like in all reality I should just have him cut it to 1.463" just to be on the safe side, and even then it's still .003" on the tight side for the maximum Saami brass specs, correct?

 

[Bmghunter]

It's leaving a ring around the base of the case, it's gritty feeling when you chamber a round. I don't know how else to explain it. Other than it ain't right. That's all I know...
View attachment 8373688

You mention gritty feeling when chambering a round, have you cleaned the chamber? Is there any change of something stuck in the neck area that prevents chambering? Haven't heard this addressed first before doing permanent changes to tools and components and barrel.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

This is what he had to say when I messaged him about it at the range when I fired the 4 shots with lapua brass and noticed something wasn't right. He did say to bring a piece of Lapua brass and he would happily cut the chamber deeper.
View attachment 8374108
View attachment 8374109

I don't necessarily agree with his reasoning for a few things. But, he's at least articulating his personal reasons and has no problem running the reamer back in the chamber.

I'd probably go min chamber + .003 or .004. If you don't want to be modifying the die or shell holders, you'll need to make sure you can chamber the shortest you can get your lapua brass to.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

He claims he doesn't chamber off the brass, or the starline dummy round I gave him. He plainly stated above he chambers to barely close on a go gauge, on the tighter side.

I can't really make out his thought process on being that tight, but maybe some of you can?

Sounds like in all reality I should just have him cut it to 1.463" just to be on the safe side, and even then it's still .003" on the tight side for the maximum Saami brass specs, correct?

Brass needs to fit in the gun, regardless of whether or not he uses the go gage. I headspace go-gage +.002.. It's minimal brass growth and everything fits.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Well he's right, but it does seem a little too tight. Doesn't matter at this point. It's not that complicated since you've already measured your brass and know what needs to happen. Just tell him to make it .005" longer and you will be good to go. Your fired brass will measure out at .1460 on your comparator and you can bump it back to 1.4580. You're good to go

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Brass needs to fit in the gun, regardless of whether or not he uses the go gage. I headspace go-gage +.002.. It's minimal brass growth and everything fits.

Same. We make sure the body and the length of a chamber allows a stripped bolt to fall free on whatever brass most will be using for the cartridge. Start short, then work back until we get the fit we are looking for.

 

[kyotekiller25]

You mention gritty feeling when chambering a round, have you cleaned the chamber? Is there any change of something stuck in the neck area that prevents chambering? Haven't heard this addressed first before doing permanent changes to tools and components and barrel.

No, there's nothing in my bolt face or chamber. By gritty I just meant the force/pressure spring on the bolt closing. I noticed it was super tight, and when I ejected the live round I could see shiny spots on the case head.

 

[RUN8]

I can understand the ‘smith wanting to chamber towards the minimum spec, but he took it too far to be practical. Sure it’s a bolt action rifle built with precision in mind, and taking it easier on brass for reloading; so a 5.56 NATO sized chamber that will work on hot dirty machine guns firing govt’ quality linked ammo isn’t necessary, but it still needs to have some clearance for common variations of factory ammo and brass.

I’ve also seen plenty of NATO spec chambered barrels that shoot .5 MOA with good ammo so I’m not sure I buy into the theory of a super tight chamber being necessary.

 

[RUN8]

No, there's nothing in my bolt face or chamber. By gritty I just meant the force/pressure spring on the bolt closing. I noticed it was super tight, and when I ejected the live round I could see shiny spots on the case head.

I’m going to guess any gritty feeling was the ejector area of the bolt face trying to shave brass over each letter in Lapua .223 as it passed over.

 

[kyotekiller25]

So it sounds like some are saying 1.460" would be ok with my current lapua brass, and others are still saying .002"-.004 over min spec, so that'd be what like around 1.465"-1.467"

Too many numbers and opinions. I just want 1 straight answer that will work for me based on the numbers I'm providing. I'm not super up to date on all this because I'm not a gunsmith, I need it in layman terms. And I don't necessarily trust what he's saying to me at this point either...

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

So it sounds like some are saying 1.460" would be ok with my current lapua brass, and others are still saying .002"-.004 over min spec, so that'd be what like around 1.465"-1.467"

Too many numbers and opinions. I just want 1 straight answer that will work for me based on the numbers I'm providing. I'm not super up to date on all this because I'm not a gunsmith, I need it in layman terms.

Numbers getting tossed around are likely going back and forth between comparator numbers and absolute measurements.

The specs you see on a saami or other reamer print will specify the gauge to be used for headspace measurement. In this case, it's a .330 gauge for .223.

The minimum chamber size for .223 saami using a .330 gauge is 1.4636. Which is likely the size go gauge he is using. So your chamber is likely already at 1.4636.


The only way to use the numbers you are providing is if you take your comparator and measure the go gauge he used to chamber with as well as your lapua brass. Then we'd be able to see the difference using your numbers. Since you don't have the gauge to put your comparator on, we can't give you a specific number.

The best we can tell you is you'll want somewhere around .002-.004 longer than your virgin lapua brass. Your gunsmith will either measure your brass and his gauge with his tools and then add the amount needed to chamber the brass.....or he will strip the bolt and run reamer in until the bolt barely stops on the case, then add another thou or three so the bolt falls free and has room for the occasional longer piece of brass.

 

[Kadams1563]

You’d be an annoying ass customer. Just take it back to him with some Lapua brass and then see how it goes lmao.

 

[kyotekiller25]

Numbers getting tossed around are likely going back and forth between comparator numbers and absolute measurements.

The specs you see on a saami or other reamer print will specify the gauge to be used for headspace measurement. In this case, it's a .330 gauge for .223.

The minimum chamber size for .223 saami using a .330 gauge is 1.4636. Which is likely the size go gauge he is using. So your chamber is likely already at 1.4636.


The only way to use the numbers you are providing is if you take your comparator and measure the go gauge he used to chamber with as well as your lapua brass. Then we'd be able to see the difference using your numbers. Since you don't have the gauge to put your comparator on, we can't give you a specific number.

The best we can tell you is you'll want somewhere around .002-.004 longer than your virgin lapua brass. Your gunsmith will either measure your brass and his gauge with his tools and then add the amount needed to chamber the brass.....or he will strip the bolt and run reamer in until the bolt barely stops on the case, then add another thou or three so the bolt falls free and has room for the occasional longer piece of brass.

Sounds good. I get what you're saying now for the most part. I measured all 100 pieces of lapua and picked the longest 3 out, which according to my crude measurements with a Hornady comparator .330 gauge is 1.459" The longest starline I got was 1.458"

 

[kyotekiller25]

You’d be an annoying ass customer. Just take it back to him with some Lapua brass and then see how it goes lmao.

Well to be fair, this is an annoying ass problem I shouldn't even be having to deal with honestly.

I just load and shoot. I never claimed to be a machinist, but thank you, I am going to take it to him asap and have him fix it. I appreciate your help either way.

 

[375fan]

Well to be fair, this is an annoying ass problem I shouldn't even be having to deal with honestly.

I just load and shoot. I never claimed to be a machinist, but thank you, I am going to take it to him asap and have him fix it. I appreciate your help either way.

It's a pain in the arse but your chamber was cut too short/tight and it needs to be corrected, otherwise you going to have continued headaches with the whole situation. Take it to your 'smith and have a conversation , you're about to find out though who he really is as a person, 'smith and a businessman.

 

[Haney]

You’d be an annoying ass customer. Just take it back to him with some Lapua brass and then see how it goes lmao.

Tough talk when it is not your gun that's fucked up . LMAO

 

[kyotekiller25]

He seems like a nice enough guy. It's the first rifle I've had him do for me. He's a retired machinist by trade, PRS competition shooter, match director, etc, older guy, just seems kinda set in his ways like most of us I guess. I'm sure he will correct the issue, I just want to make sure I know what I'm giving him numbers wise to make sure it's not going to be an ongoing issue, and it make sense.

His initial response to me was just size the lapua brass down. Well I tried that and it didn't work. And I know you shouldn't have to resize virgin lapua brass .004"-.005" to get to fit. Which is then why I came on here and asked, because I know you guys know your shit.

 

[HerCoStarNTheBeaverPictur]

He seems like a nice enough guy. It's the first rifle I've had him do for me. He's a retired machinist by trade, PRS competition shooter, match director, etc, older guy, just seems kinda set in his ways like most of us I guess. I'm sure he will correct the issue, I just want to make sure I know what I'm giving him numbers wise to make sure it's not going to be an ongoing issue, and it make sense.

His initial response to me was just size the lapua brass down. Well I tried that and it didn't work. And I know you shouldn't have to resize virgin lapua brass .004"-.005" to get to fit. Which is then why I came on here and asked, because I know you guys know your shit.

I think what he’s saying is you don’t need to go in there with numbers. Just go in there with the gun and your brass and tell him you will be using this brass so it needs to chamber

In the software world, I don’t expect the end user to tell me what logic to use. They just define the requirements and acceptance criteria.

 

[Mauser48]

Your starline brass measurements are right on with my new brass as well. I measured some factory 223 ammo I had on hand and it measures 1.454". I'd need to measure some more ammo but you're rifle should chamber factory ammo fine. Why virgin brass isn't sized down more beats me. I'm 100% with you that having to size new brass is annoying though.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Sounds good. I get what you're saying now for the most part. I measured all 100 pieces of lapua and picked the longest 3 out, which according to my crude measurements with a Hornady comparator .330 gauge is 1.459" The longest starline I got was 1.458"

View attachment 8374213

Yea, that's why you'll need to take it to him with the brass. Either the Hornady .330 isn't actually .330, or the chamber is much shorter than 1.4636.

It's probably a combination of the hornady gauge not being perfect as well has him forcing bolt closed on a min spec chamber gauge. Generally speaking, hornady gauges aren't the most consistent...... a .330 from somewhere like SAC or Area419 will be better choice for an actual datum gauge and hornady is typically going to be less consistent, so it will be more of a comparator.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Yea, that's why you'll need to take it to him with the brass. Either the Hornady .330 isn't actually .330, or the chamber is much shorter than 1.4636.

It's probably a combination of the hornady gauge not being perfect as well has him forcing bolt closed on a min spec chamber gauge. Generally speaking, hornady gauges aren't the most consistent...... a .330 from somewhere like SAC or Area419 will be better choice for an actual datum gauge and hornady is typically going to be less consistent, so it will be more of a comparator.

Hornady chamfers those aluminum comparator inserts. The hole may be 330 but it doesn't engage at 330. It's why SAC uses case angles.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Hornady chamfers those aluminum comparator inserts. The hole may be 330 but it doesn't engage at 330. It's why SAC uses case angles.

Yea. SAC offers two types. They have the shoulder angle comparators and they have the hole specific datum gauge inserts made to compare to reamer and/or saami prints.

 

[FLIGHT762]

Hornady chamfers those aluminum comparator inserts. The hole may be 330 but it doesn't engage at 330. It's why SAC uses case angles.

Yes, the Hornady inserts have a chamfer. I have two .400 Hornady inserts. One is a very old one from the Stony Point days. That insert measures 1.611" (.019" chamfer) off of a 1.630" 308 Win. Go gauge. The newer .400 insert measures 1.622" (.008" chamfer) off of the Go Gauge. They are inconsistent and should be used as a comparator only.

 

[Dolomite]

Easiest would be take the longest Lapua cases and ask him to headspace off that piece of brass. I’m sure when you get there and show him the virgin case he will know exactly what to do. Let him measure your brass with his tools so it’s more exact.

 

[kyotekiller25]

Easiest would be take the longest Lapua cases and ask him to headspace off that piece of brass. I’m sure when you get there and show him the virgin case he will know exactly what to do. Let him measure your brass with his tools so it’s more exact.

He got a hold of me last night. I quickly explained the issue I was having and he said to bring the rifle, a couple pieces of my lapua brass, and my sizer die to him Monday morning and he would get it taken care of. So I'll keep ya posted. Thanks for all your help.

 

[nksmfamjp]

I think you are heading the right direction. Everybody says they want a “match” chamber. The problem with the word is it is only a match to whatever the gunsmith and reamer manufacturer thought was good, better or best. What you want is a chamber that matches specific dies and brass or a specific factory ammo, and to not be a pain in the ass.

My guess is he is in a situation where he is trying to make the tightest possible chamber realizing that most people just want to chamber all the brass they buy or fl size with a standard die and not have to do any machine work. On topof that, they want their magic bullet to shoot in the zeros!

How hard is that?!

oh yea, and add to that they read the forums and so and so can chamber even a Mossberg that will shoot 0.5 moa all day long. Yea customer expectations are a bitch. I’ll bet 1/2 the fucking 0.5 moa rifles on here can’t put 25 into 1 moa at 100 yds!

 

[kyotekiller25]

I've seen a few of his rifles shoot extremely well from friends and other PRS competitors. I have no doubts he knows what he is doing when it comes to chambering a good rifle and them shooting, just not quite sure what he was thinking with mine... I fully expect it to shoot 1/4 MOA once I find what it likes, which shouldn't be to hard with what little I've shot it already anyway. If it doesn't shoot in the .2s or .3s, chances are it's my fault, not the rifle...

On a side note, I found some N540 to try with these 75g ELDMs and man are they scooting right along. 25g was showing 3010 and that's still .8g away from vihtavouris max charge. Also shooting about 125fps faster than same charges as vihtavouris data with a 25" tube. I think the N540 is going to be a perfect match from the 28" Bartlein...The pierced primer is probably due to 2 main issues, one being the CCI400 primer, which I kind of figured might happen with stout 223 loads. I should've known better from all the research. But I have 3 other primers on hand to try (BR4s, 450s, and 7.5s) I already decapped all those 400s in the Lapua brass. However, I have shot 80 rounds already with the starline brass and those same CCI 400s and didn't have 1 pierced primer. Second, the lapua brass being .002"-.004" to large for the chamber is also causing some pressure issues. Once I get the rifle back Monday afternoon, I'll load them up again, but this time I think I'll only go up to 25.5 instead of 25.8 I had originally loaded, as it's already shooting pretty fast as is. QL was predicting 3025 at 25.5 and 62K. I bet 25.8g would put me well over 3100fps, which would probably be a bit on the warm side. My target goal is 1/4 MOA at 3000-3050fps

 

[oso1]

I think you are heading the right direction. Everybody says they want a “match” chamber. The problem with the word is it is only a match to whatever the gunsmith and reamer manufacturer thought was good, better or best. What you want is a chamber that matches specific dies and brass or a specific factory ammo, and to not be a pain in the ass.

My guess is he is in a situation where he is trying to make the tightest possible chamber realizing that most people just want to chamber all the brass they buy or fl size with a standard die and not have to do any machine work. On topof that, they want their magic bullet to shoot in the zeros!

How hard is that?!

oh yea, and add to that they read the forums and so and so can chamber even a Mossberg that will shoot 0.5 moa all day long. Yea customer expectations are a bitch. I’ll bet 1/2 the fucking 0.5 moa rifles on here can’t put 25 into 1 moa at 100 yds!

I would bet that number is higher than half, much higher

 

[Haney]

I would bet that number is higher than half, much higher

I bet nobody gives a fuck .

 

[Dolomite]

I've seen a few of his rifles shoot extremely well from friends and other PRS competitors. I have no doubts he knows what he is doing when it comes to chambering a good rifle and them shooting, just not quite sure what he was thinking with mine... I fully expect it to shoot 1/4 MOA once I find what it likes, which shouldn't be to hard with what little I've shot it already anyway. If it doesn't shoot in the .2s or .3s, chances are it's my fault, not the rifle...

On a side note, I found some N540 to try with these 75g ELDMs and man are they scooting right along. 25g was showing 3010 and that's still .8g away from vihtavouris max charge. Also shooting about 125fps faster than same charges as vihtavouris data with a 25" tube. I think the N540 is going to be a perfect match from the 28" Bartlein...The pierced primer is probably due to 2 main issues, one being the CCI400 primer, which I kind of figured might happen with stout 223 loads. I should've known better from all the research. But I have 3 other primers on hand to try (BR4s, 450s, and 7.5s) I already decapped all those 400s in the Lapua brass. However, I have shot 80 rounds already with the starline brass and those same CCI 400s and didn't have 1 pierced primer. Second, the lapua brass being .002"-.004" to large for the chamber is also causing some pressure issues. Once I get the rifle back Monday afternoon, I'll load them up again, but this time I think I'll only go up to 25.5 instead of 25.8 I had originally loaded, as it's already shooting pretty fast as is. QL was predicting 3025 at 25.5 and 62K. I bet 25.8g would put me well over 3100fps, which would probably be a bit on the warm side. My target goal is 1/4 MOA at 3000-3050fps

View attachment 8374917

Damn that shit is screaming…. Hopefully barrel speeds up after 100 rounds or so. So far my bartlien 223 hasn’t sped up any after 65 rounds. I’m getting primer cratering going 2700 using the cci400 and Lapua brass with 77SMK. Have you tried the 80smk or 80.5 Berger or 85.5 Berger LRH?

 

[kyotekiller25]

Damn that shit is screaming…. Hopefully barrel speeds up after 100 rounds or so. So far my bartlien 223 hasn’t sped up any after 65 rounds. I’m getting primer cratering going 2700 using the cci400 and Lapua brass with 77SMK. Have you tried the 80smk or 80.5 Berger or 85.5 Berger LRH?

What powder and barrel length are you doing? I notice you are using 400s also, have you not had the pierced primer issue with those at higher speeds/pressures in a 223? They are leftover primers from my 222, so thought I would use up the brick before I got into the others.

No, I did try the 80g ELDM though. This rifle just didnt seem to prefer it over the 75 any, plus I wasnt getting much over 2800-2850 with them and H4895/IMR4895. Could also be in part due to only the 8 twist barrel. Granted I got rid of them all before I acquired any of this N540, but I already had made up my mind 75s were going to be the way to go in this rifle, both accuracy and velocity wise.

I know this is gonna sound dumb to most of you guys on here, but I'm strictly an ELDM guy. They work for me. They're cheap, accurate, have a good BC, and they kill shit, so I can use them for both target/hunting, and afford to shoot them. I know they're not everyones beloved Bergers, but I've had my days and time with Berger VLDs and just wasn't impressed with them and any type of consistent terminal ballistics. Sometimes they worked, sometimes they didn't. Not worth almost double the price in my opinion, for what I'm doing anyway.

I use the 7mm 180g ELDM at 3100 fps in my 28" Bartlein 7-300 Win mag, and man do they shoot good and hammer the deer and elk. I also used it in a local LR matche out to 1100 and taken 1st place. I also just built a 6 creed couple months ago with a 27" BRUX and shoot the 108g ELDM at 3025fps for my coyote/LR steel rifle. Only killed one dog with it at 225 yards so far, but it hammered him and put a nice softball hole in him. And now this 223 with a 28" Bartlein and the 75g ELDM at around 3000fps hopefully as a dedicated 1K trainer, local PRS/MOA matches, and the occasional coyote also.

 

[RUN8]

I’m pretty much an ELD-M guy at this point too. My single Bartlein 6.5mm 1:8” shoots them like a house on fire, they’re readily available, and they’re about as economical as a match bullet is going to get.

 

[Mauser48]

The 80 eld has been so so for me so I'm going to try the 80 smk rather than mess with the 75 eld right now. Virtually ever service rifle shooter uses them in a wylde chambered barrel so it should be pretty easy to get to shoot. Curious to see how your 75 eld loads settle in with the n540. Never thought I'd see vihtavuori powders cheaper than hodgdon.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

For 223 I'm about to become an ELDM guy myself. The 75gr hpbt always shot superb in my bolt gun but the 75gr eldm is a real winner in my AR's too so, gonna be selling my 1000+ 77smk I guess..... and buying more 75gr eldm

 

[Dolomite]

What powder and barrel length are you doing? I notice you are using 400s also, have you not had the pierced primer issue with those at higher speeds/pressures in a 223? They are leftover primers from my 222, so thought I would use up the brick before I got into the others.

No, I did try the 80g ELDM though. This rifle just didnt seem to prefer it over the 75 any, plus I wasnt getting much over 2800-2850 with them and H4895/IMR4895. Could also be in part due to only the 8 twist barrel. Granted I got rid of them all before I acquired any of this N540, but I already had made up my mind 75s were going to be the way to go in this rifle, both accuracy and velocity wise.

I know this is gonna sound dumb to most of you guys on here, but I'm strictly an ELDM guy. They work for me. They're cheap, accurate, have a good BC, and they kill shit, so I can use them for both target/hunting, and afford to shoot them. I know they're not everyones beloved Bergers, but I've had my days and time with Berger VLDs and just wasn't impressed with them and any type of consistent terminal ballistics. Sometimes they worked, sometimes they didn't. Not worth almost double the price in my opinion, for what I'm doing anyway.

I use the 7mm 180g ELDM at 3100 fps in my 28" Bartlein 7-300 Win mag, and man do they shoot good and hammer the deer and elk. I also used it in a local LR matche out to 1100 and taken 1st place. I also just built a 6 creed couple months ago with a 27" BRUX and shoot the 108g ELDM at 3025fps for my coyote/LR steel rifle. Only killed one dog with it at 225 yards so far, but it hammered him and put a nice softball hole in him. And now this 223 with a 28" Bartlein and the 75g ELDM at around 3000fps hopefully as a dedicated 1K trainer, local PRS/MOA matches, and the occasional coyote also.

I pushed the 77SMK to 2900 and only primer cratering. I’m using a 1:7 twist 26” barrel with 8208xbr. Maybe I have to retry 75 or 80 hornady’s with the bartlien.

If you can shoot the cheapest bullet and get accuracy you need, more power to you!!!

Once the barrel hits 100 rounds I’ll try different bullets. Powder is impossible to come by these days, may try imr4064, not sure that will be any better.

 

[kyotekiller25]

Waiting outside the smiths shop right now. He's not super happy about me wanting him to cut the chamber deeper, seems quite annoyed at the fact. He said his no gauge, I belive it was is set to 1.456" I said well thats to tight. My longest piece of Lapua brass is 1.459" so it needs to be cut at least to chamber that. I just told him to go 1.460"

He gave me the speel about brass being inconsistent and factory ammo being sloppy etc. I said I'm not shooting factory ammo, this isnt an AR, but the fact is, the chamber is cut way to tight even for a bolt rifle, and if my lapua brass has to grow .002"-.003 upon initial fireforming, then I'm ok with that, but it needs to chamber virgin lapua brass at the very least because that's what I'm using. He tried getting away with shaving my sizer die and I respectfully declined that option. I just don't want the hassle of dealing with such a tight chamber and I said it's really not necessary for what I'm doing. This isn't a BR rifle that I expect to shoot in the 0s, and I'm not buying $300 match grade dies just to size brass either.

So he's cutting it .004" deeper at 1.460" which is still technically what .003" under min spec?? It's still a super tight fucking chamber at that. I said most guys from the research I did recommend 2 to 4 thousands over a no gauge, just to be on the safe side. That's when he started going into the brass and factory ammo speel about chambering any type of "fucking store bought ammo" in his words, and "that's the discrepancy different rifle builders have on chambers"

Anyways, hopefully this fixes the issue, and I'm not fully decided if I'll have him do another build for me at this point or not. Kinda cranky old guy for something that's really his mistake in the first place. I mean who the fuck cuts a chamber .007" shorter than min spec and expects not to have any issues???

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Waiting outside the smiths shop right now. He's not super happy about me wanting him to cut the chamber deeper, seems quite annoyed at the fact. He said his no gauge, I belive it was is set to 1.456" I said well thats to tight. My longest piece of Lapua brass is 1.459" so it needs to be cut at least to chamber that. I just told him to go 1.460"

He gave me the speel about brass being inconsistent and factory ammo being sloppy etc. I said I'm not shooting factory ammo, this isnt an AR, but the fact is, the chamber is cut way to tight even for a bolt rifle, and if my lapua brass has to grow .002"-.003 upon initial fireforming, then I'm ok with that, but it needs to chamber virgin lapua brass at the very least because that's what I'm using. He tried getting away with shaving my sizer die and I respectfully declined that option. I just don't want the hassle of dealing with such a tight chamber and I said it's really not necessary for what I'm doing. This isn't a BR rifle that I expect to shoot in the 0s, and I'm not buying $300 match grade dies just to size brass either.

So he's cutting it .004" deeper at 1.460" which is still technically what .003" under min spec?? It's still a super tight fucking chamber at that. I said most guys from the research I did recommend 2 to 4 thousands over a no gauge, just to be on the safe side. That's when he started going into the brass and factory ammo speel about chambering any type of "fucking store bought ammo" in his words, and "that's the discrepancy different rifle builders have on chambers"

Anyways, hopefully this fixes the issue, and I'm not fully decided if I'll have him do another build for me at this point or not. Kinda cranky old guy for something that's really his mistake in the first place. I mean who the fuck cuts a chamber .007" shorter than min spec and expects not to have any issues???

I would just find someone who makes their normal chambers closer to inside saami. This shop prefers to do things a more specialize way such as short chambers and modified dies.

Regardless the reason/opinions if that kind of thing matters, that's they way he prefers to run his business....which is fine, it's his business. I'd just find a shop/smith who is less "specialized" (unless requested).



Also, take this as a learning experience. SAAMI has no weight behind it (CIP in Europe has the force of law behind it). It's nothing more that a suggestion that is voluntary. So, while I'd personally be of the opinion that anything that has a SAAMI or very close to SAAMI (like a Wylde vs a .223 rem), the standard should be a SAAMI reamer.......that's just a personal opinion. Always request a reamer print or chamber specs from the smith you intend to use if they don't specify in their literature or phone call/s. Then you can check things for yourself before finding yourself in this spot again.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

You will be very happy with it after he does it. That's a great chamber size imo. My experience with smith's is that most really don't know much about anything "new" and rely on info they know from 20 years ago, if they know much at all. There's several that support the Hide that are just a whole other level of that profession and actually do know and want to know the latest techniques and info as well as different chamber sizes and are happy to talk to you about it. There's really 2 that I deal with. Eric at Blue Mountain Precision is fantastic. Also, Gregg and the SPR team is also fantastic. There's a few others here that are also very good I just haven't dealt with them. I'd suggest using one that's on here and just send it to him. I know its a lot more convenient to use someone close but its not worth it

 

[Dolomite]

I hear fishert&c does good work and Bugholes does good work too.

 

[Edds]

What was the final result on this issue?

 

[Dolomite]

Waiting outside the smiths shop right now. He's not super happy about me wanting him to cut the chamber deeper, seems quite annoyed at the fact. He said his no gauge, I belive it was is set to 1.456" I said well thats to tight. My longest piece of Lapua brass is 1.459" so it needs to be cut at least to chamber that. I just told him to go 1.460"

He gave me the speel about brass being inconsistent and factory ammo being sloppy etc. I said I'm not shooting factory ammo, this isnt an AR, but the fact is, the chamber is cut way to tight even for a bolt rifle, and if my lapua brass has to grow .002"-.003 upon initial fireforming, then I'm ok with that, but it needs to chamber virgin lapua brass at the very least because that's what I'm using. He tried getting away with shaving my sizer die and I respectfully declined that option. I just don't want the hassle of dealing with such a tight chamber and I said it's really not necessary for what I'm doing. This isn't a BR rifle that I expect to shoot in the 0s, and I'm not buying $300 match grade dies just to size brass either.

So he's cutting it .004" deeper at 1.460" which is still technically what .003" under min spec?? It's still a super tight fucking chamber at that. I said most guys from the research I did recommend 2 to 4 thousands over a no gauge, just to be on the safe side. That's when he started going into the brass and factory ammo speel about chambering any type of "fucking store bought ammo" in his words, and "that's the discrepancy different rifle builders have on chambers"

Anyways, hopefully this fixes the issue, and I'm not fully decided if I'll have him do another build for me at this point or not. Kinda cranky old guy for something that's really his mistake in the first place. I mean who the fuck cuts a chamber .007" shorter than min spec and expects not to have any issues???

For reference I remeasured my Lapua brass using a hornady gauge and it’s about 1.457-1.460, using the Whidden gauge it’s 1.446-1.449. With the hornady gauge mine doesn’t seem as short as your chamber. So far fired hasn’t grown at all.

 

[kyotekiller25]

What was the final result on this issue?

He ended up cutting the chamber deeper
.005" to 1.460"

I'm loading up all my shit to go shoot right now. Shooting a ladder at 300 with N540 in Lapua brass, and I also loaded two 3 shot groups with IMR4895/H4895 at 24g in the starline brass and will shoot them at 300 also. I'll check the fired cases when I get back home. I'll keep ya'll posted.

 

[kyotekiller25]

For reference I remeasured my Lapua brass using a hornady gauge and it’s about 1.457-1.460, using the Whidden gauge it’s 1.446-1.449. With the hornady gauge mine doesn’t seem as short as your chamber. So far fired hasn’t grown at all.

I'm getting 1.457"-1.459" So we're not to far off each other.

Starline was measuring 1.455"-1.458"

Lapua brass chambers like butter now, so that's a great start anyway haha.

 

[DstRflMn645]

A .223 Wylde Chamber is the same as .223 Remington, lead/throat is longer for heavier bullets. Assuming your dimensions are correct your chamber is .008 too short. Most virgin brass is .003-.004 shorter than min. chamber. If the rifle was mine it would go back and get chambered correctly. If your continue to force the bolt closed on tight brass you can gall the locking lugs.

John