Why is my lapua 223 brass not chambering and sizing?

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

A .223 Wylde Chamber is the same as .223 Remington, lead/throat is longer for heavier bullets. Assuming your dimensions are correct your chamber is .008 too short. Most virgin brass is .003-.004 shorter than min. chamber. If the rifle was mine it would go back and get chambered correctly. If your continue to force the bolt closed on tight brass you can gall the locking lugs.

John

SAAMI actually allows brass to be 0.003" longer than chamber if one chooses. As long as dissimilar hardness and/or lubricating lugs, you won't get any detrimental galling from normal pressures.

There's plenty of people who prefer there to be resistance when chambering. I'm not one of them, but can't deny that plenty do this without any detrimental issues.

 

[Dolomite]

I'm getting 1.457"-1.459" So we're not to far off each other.

Starline was measuring 1.455"-1.458"

Lapua brass chambers like butter now, so that's a great start anyway haha

There went the excuse for shooting bad

 

[kyotekiller25]

So just finished up the 300 yard ladder with N540/75g ELDM. 5 of the 6 shots went into 1"

I think the rifle and myself is going to love this combo. Gonna go buy the last 2 or 3# they have and start load development...

Did pierce another primer at 25.6 at 3086fps. Using Rem 7.5s this time around. Probably a little warm...But it still shoots. For some reason it keeps throwing the 25g charge high, but at least it's consistent haha.

The black ink markings is from today...blue ink was from a few days ago (and stopped at 25g due to pierced primer with CCI 400)before he cut the chamber deeper...

Probably going to start around the 24.6-24.8 mark at around 2975fps...

 

[Cascade Hemi]

So just finished up the 300 yard ladder with N540/75g ELDM. 5 of the 6 shots went into 1"

I think the rifle and myself is going to love this combo. Gonna go buy the last 2 or 3# they have and start load development...

Did pierce another primer at 25.6 at 3086fps. Using Rem 7.5s this time around. Probably a little warm...But it still shoots. For some reason it keeps throwing the 25g charge high, but at least it's consistent haha.

The black ink markings is from today...blue ink was from a few days ago (and stopped at 25g due to pierced primer with CCI 400)before he cut the chamber deeper...

Probably going to start around the 24.6-24.8 mark at around 2975fps...

View attachment 8376681

Which brass are you blowing primers with?

 

[kyotekiller25]

Which brass are you blowing primers with?

Actually pierced 2 today...

Pierced 2 with lapua so far...1 with CCI 400 and short chamber few days ago at 25g N540, and today with a 7.5 at 3086fps with 25.6g N540

And pierced 1 today with 24g H4895 at 2940fps and starline brass...

What the fuck is causing it? Brass looks fine, no ejector marks, no hard bolt lift. You'd think if it was a hot load, it'd be doing it on more than 3 out of 100 rounds or so no?

 

[carbonbased]

This thread is exhausting lol

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Actually blew 2 today...

Blown 2 with lapua so far...1 with CCI 400 and short chamber few days ago at 25g N540, and today with a 7.5 at 3086fps with 25.6g N540

Blew 1 today also with 24g H4895 at 2940fps and starline brass...

What the fuck is causing it? Brass looks fine, no ejector marks, no hard bolt lift. You'd think if it was a hot load, it'd be doing it on more than 3 out of 100 rounds or so no?

Blown primers generally is an indicator of a hot load. Starline 223 brass has less capacity than Lapua.

 

[DstRflMn645]

Is it on the edge of the primer or where the firing pin hits?

 

[Dolomite]

The load might be too hot with that double base powder and virgin brass. Size a few fired cases and try again to see if the primers pop. Can always go to cci450 or br4, cups are harder.

 

[kyotekiller25]

This thread is exhausting lol

Not hard to leave...Doors wide open

 

[kyotekiller25]

Blown primers generally is an indicator of a hot load. Starline 223 brass has less capacity than Lapua.

They're not blown, they're pierced. I edited my original post.

That could be true, but Starline brass is weighing out to 101-101.5g while Lapua is 98-98.5g. I know that doesn't equate to internal capacity, but I'd imagine they're pretty damn close either way. The starline brass is the 5.56 version so it's heavier/thicker at the case head/web area.

 

[kyotekiller25]

Is it on the edge of the primer or where the firing pin hits?

Nope, dead center on the primer. Some are a bit cratered though, not all but some.

Never had a single pierced primer in thousands of rounds on the same action in a 222 Rem using CCI 400s and 21.5g Of IMR4198 with a 40g vmax at 3600fps. Which isn't exactly a squib load from a triple deuce either.

 

[kyotekiller25]

The load might be too hot with that double base powder and virgin brass. Size a few fired cases and try again to see if the primers pop. Can always go to cci450 or br4, cups are harder.

To be fair, 3086fps is probably a bit over pressure. Not going to use that load. Going to back off around 24.6-24.8 at around 2975fps so I won't have any pressure related issues when 100 degree summer days roll around.

Doesn't make much sense why it'd pierce one on a 24g charge of 4895 at 2940fps tho either. That's definitely not a warm load. And a full 150fps slower than the N540 load that was pierced today also.

I thought 7.5s, 450s, and BR4s all had the same cup thickness at .025"?

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

They're not blown, they're pierced.

That could be true, but Starline brass is weighing out to 101-101.5g while Lapua is 98-98.5g. I know that doesn't equate to internal capacity, but I'd imagine they're pretty damn close either way.

No they are a grain of most 223 powders difference. You have a very hot load.

 

[DstRflMn645]

I would suggest checking the tip of the firing pin to see if it's been damaged from pierced primers, also check firing pin protrusion, shouldn't be more than .060.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

To be fair, 3086fps is probably a bit over pressure. Not going to use that load. Going to back off around 24.6-24.8 at around 2975fps so I won't have any pressure related issues when 100 degree summer days roll around.

I thought 7.5s, 450s, and BR4s all had the same cup thickness at .025"?

BR4 and 450 I think are the same thickness cup, not sure about the 7.5's. Aren't you shooting a 75gr or 77gr bullet?

 

[kyotekiller25]

BR4 and 450 I think are the same thickness cup, not sure about the 7.5's. Aren't you shooting a 75gr or 77gr bullet?

From all my research from several sources, the 7.5s are the same thickness as the 450s and BR4s at .025"

I am shooting 75g ELDMs from a 28" Bartlein

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

From all my research from several sources, the 7.5s are the same thickness as the 450s and BR4s at .025"

I am shooting 75g ELDMs from a 28" Bartlein

Well, with a 28" barrel that would be about what I'd expect with speed. It's spicy but I wouldn't think it was enough to pierce primers. As someone else said, have you looked at the firing pin? It very well could be that its just a little too hot though. Sometimes you just have to back em off

 

[kyotekiller25]

I would suggest checking the tip of the firing pin to see if it's been damaged from pierced primers, also check firing pin protrusion, shouldn't be more than .060.

Gunsmith just had it out yesterday morning and looked it over. No damage to the firing pin.

 

[kyotekiller25]

Well, with a 28" barrel that would be about what I'd expect with speed. It's spicy but I wouldn't think it was enough to pierce primers. As someone else said, have you looked at the firing pin? It very well could be that its just a little too hot though. Sometimes you just have to back em off

No I agree it's definitely on the warm side of things. That was with 25.6g N540. Just a ladder test to see pressure/velocity anyway.

Going to do load development around 24.6-24.8g at around the 2975fps mark. That should be plenty safe.

 

[kyotekiller25]

Gunsmith said the Rem 700s in a short action are notorious for having a very hard or force firing pin. Said it's nothing out of the ordinary in his opinion. I asked about bushing the firing pin and he said it's not really necessary and the 700s are just known to have a lot of force on the firing pin hitting primers in the short action calibers. I dunno? Not a gunsmith so I couldn't tell ya.

Definitely don't want to make a habit of it and fuck something up though. I'll keep an eye on it down around the 2950-2975fps mark and see if it continues. If it does, bushing the firing pin definitely seems like it's in order.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

No I agree it's definitely on the warm side of things. That was with 25.6g N540. Just a ladder test to see pressure/velocity anyway.

Going to do load development around 24.6-24.8g at around the 2975fps mark. That should be plenty safe.

Oh yeah you will be good then.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Gunsmith said the Rem 700s in a short action are notorious for having a very hard or force firing pin. Said it's nothing out of the ordinary in his opinion. I asked about bushing the firing pin and he said it's not really necessary and the 700s are just known to have a lot of force on the firing pin hitting primers in the short action calibers. I dunno? Not a gunsmith so I couldn't tell ya.

Definitely don't want to make a habit of it and fuck something up though. I'll keep an eye on it down around the 2950-2975fps mark and see if it continues. If it does, bushing the firing pin definitely seems like it's in order.

Measure it with calipers and see how big it is.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Measure it with calipers and see how big it is.

Should be .062" max

Gunsmithing - small and large primer firing pins

Does a rifle that shoots calibers that use small rifle primers have different firing pin geometry than a rifle that shoots calibers with large rifle primers? This question is pertaining to making a switch barrel .308/6.5x47 Lapua being the .308 is using a large rifle primer and the 6.5x47 Lapua...

www.snipershide.com

All the 6GT guys who bought rifles with .068 and larger firing pins had primer piercing issues with Hornady ammunition, whatever primer they used in 2023. Some of the action makers came out with bolts with smaller firing pins (e.g., Impact released a .060 firing pin replacement bolt for $465, and GA Precision is now using that one in their builds for small rifle primer rounds)

 

[Cascade Hemi]

They're not blown, they're pierced. I edited my original post.

That could be true, but Starline brass is weighing out to 101-101.5g while Lapua is 98-98.5g. I know that doesn't equate to internal capacity, but I'd imagine they're pretty damn close either way. The starline brass is the 5.56 version so it's heavier/thicker at the case head/web area.

Starline 556 brass has almost the same capacity as Lapua. Starline 223 does not.

Switch primers.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

This thread is exhausting lol

No kidding.

 

[kyotekiller25]

I get about .076"

 

[kyotekiller25]

Starline 556 brass has almost the same capacity as Lapua. Starline 223 does not.

Switch primers.

It's happened with 2 different primers already, CCI 400s which is to be expected, however had 2 today with Rem 7.5s which are thicker just like the 450s and BR4s. So what other primer would you recommend at this point?

 

[carbonbased]

He’s wearing us down

Soon we’ll be troubleshooting his dishwasher





(all in good fun man, I’ll try to keep giving you too much crap)

 

[kyotekiller25]

He’s wearing us down

Soon we’ll be troubleshooting his dishwasher





(all in good fun man, I’ll try to keep giving you too much crap)

No worries man, I can definitely take it, as well as dish it out. And I don't even have a dish washer, what the wife is for

 

[carbonbased]

No worries man, I can definitely take it, as well as dish it out. And I don't even have a dish washer, what the wife is for

There’s no fixing that! (I’ve got one too heh heh)

 

[ma smith]

It's happened with 2 different primers already, CCI 400s which is to be expected, however had 2 today with Rem 7.5s which are thicker just like the 450s and BR4s. So what other primer would you recommend at this point?

Book max speed on n540 with a 75 gr is around 2,600 MV

 

[kyotekiller25]

Book max speed on n540 with a 75 gr is around 2,600 MV

Because that's fucking AR data and a 20" bbl...

Go to vihtavouris website or plug it in QL...And get back to me...

This is a 223 Wylde bolt rifle with a 28" barrel. And I have it set up to 2.510" to the lands...

Per quickload...

Per vihtavouri...

Still say 2600???

 

[spife7980]

Y’all are wrong. His blown primers have nothing to do with published literature so leave logic and sound reasoning out of this. He can’t possibly be over pressure so why else would he be blowing primers out?

 

[ma smith]

OK, Here's one tapping out at ∆150fps over book max...

Now, how much further to 3,100 ...

 

[MarshallDodge]

I'm running CCI 450 primers with 23.0 N540 and 80 ELD. Never had a popped primer and it shoots sub 1/2 MOA at 100, with very little vertical at 950. I'm tempted to see if I can go up to 23.3 next.

 

[375fan]

OP is blowing primers due to pressure that is a result of his too short/tight chamber that needs to be fixed.

 

[kyotekiller25]

Y’all are wrong. His blown primers have nothing to do with published literature so leave logic and sound reasoning out of this. He can’t possibly be over pressure so why else would he be blowing primers out?
View attachment 8376895

Piercing, not blowing, asshole...

 

[kyotekiller25]

OP is blowing primers due to pressure that is a result of his too short/tight chamber that needs to be fixed.

Already been fixed...Was cut .005" deeper yesterday.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Are you blanking primers when you lower the charge weight a grain?

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Hey OP. Did you measure your fired brass yet.

 

[kyotekiller25]

OK, Here's one tapping out at ∆150fps over book max...

Now, how much further to 3,100 ...
View attachment 8376891

Again, that looks like a fucking AR to me...did you even look at the QL and vihtavouri data I posted douche nozzle?

 

[ma smith]

Per vihtavouri...Still say 2600???

VV is telling you 2,950 is max,
QL is telling you 3,050 is "near max" !!!!!

And here you are 3,100 +
=> you are getting pressure signs

I have no doubt longer coal, pointier eldm
and 8in bbl etc gives you some leeway,

and i'm not tring to nit-pick your shit LOL

 

[375fan]

Already been fixed...Was cut .005" deeper yesterday.

Well that was fast. So now you're piercing primers or was that happening too before the chamber fix ?

 

[kyotekiller25]

OP is blowing primers due to pressure that is a result of his too short/tight chamber that needs to be fixed.

Already been fixed chief. Cut the chamber .005" deeper yesterday...

 

[kyotekiller25]

VV is telling you 2,950 is max,
QL is telling you 3,050 is "near max" !!!!!

And here you are 3,100 +
Looks like => you are getting pressure signs

I have no doubt longer coal, pointier eldm
and 8in bbl etc gives you some leeway,

Great! And I said that was a ladder test. Which is a pressure/velocity check. Also said I wasn't going to load around there. You're reading comprehension skills are quite garbage...

 

[Dolomite]

Apparently no one reads all the updated posts.

 

[kyotekiller25]

Well that was fast. So now you're piercing primers or was that happening too before the chamber fix ?

Smith only lives 25 minutes next town over. He had it cut deeper for me in 45 minutes.

I've had 1 pierced primer before the chamber due to using CCI 400s.

I had 2 today after swapping to the 7.5s and after chamber was re cut, 1 being due to being over pressure at almost 3100fps, and the other with 24g H4895 at 2940fps. I think that is just because the firing pin is .076" and needs bushed.

 

[ma smith]

Apparently no one reads all the updated posts.

QL doesn't read updated posts either, or the ones saying the chamber is cut wrong, then modified, or the FP is machined incorrectly, etc.

The point was ....if you see pressure signs... and book says pay attention... etc

 

[kyotekiller25]

Hey OP. Did you measure your fired brass yet.

Hey, I forgot to do that amidst all this primer piercing talk. Hang on, I'll get it.

Also my firing pin measures .076" that's probably a big reason why I'm piercing primers right?

I'm getting 1.458" on the fired cases on my comparator...so a .003" difference.