why not an AK?

[Mr blasty]

Re: why not an AK?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bevan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It costs as much as the damn rifle nearly. $300. </div></div>

The Tech sight one I posted is $100

 

[MK14 SEI]

Re: why not an AK?

The answer to the poor sights question:

UltiMAK gas tube Optics Mount and an Aimpoint that sits low.

 

[SuckitTrebek]

Re: why not an AK?

Or you can get one that mounts farther forward from ultimak for a lot less than 295

 

[_DE_]

Re: why not an AK?

The main thing is BUY AK's.

 

[JL]

Re: why not an AK?

And answer to the poor trigger: Jard match trigger for AK47!

When are we going to see first AK47 -based serious SWS in SH?

<span style="font-style: italic">"The trigger installed and adjusted fairly easy. I had a issue with the disconnector broke after 8 rounds, but it was the wrong part. [...] The trigger has had 300 to 400 rds so far and works great. You have very little travel and a crisp break on the pull and no over travel. The hammer that comes with the kit is very nice, it strikes the firing pin perfectly flat, unlike the stock hammer that is curved and damages the pin after a couple of thousand rds. I will buy this product for my other AK's, it is well worth the money. I went from 3in groups at 100yd to 1in groups at 100, that is with a 10x scope and my handloads."</span>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr blasty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The answer to the poor sights question:

AK REAR SIGHT RECEIVER RAIL SYSTEM
CATALOG NUMBER 24
$295.00
Click here for more information

http://www.krebscustom.com/RawPhotos/1-21-10/Rail_Assembled-650.jpg
http://tech-sights.com/ </div></div>

 

[sharac]

Re: why not an AK?

OMG you're killing an AK with all that fancy addons. It's like giving a biker slut fancy coctail to drink - just doesn't work...

AK needs only hammer, punches, file, 1000grit sandpaper and perhaps siderail mounted red dot or posp 4x24 for us vision challenged... oh and perhaps a bigger hammer if first one breaks...not much different than a biker slut i guess

 

[MK14 SEI]

Re: why not an AK?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RSR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I find them as addicting as Bolt guns , Glocks, and AR's. My favorite flavors tend to be Norinco's and Polytech's.

</div></div>

Very Nice!

 

[JL]

Re: why not an AK?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sharac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OMG you're killing an AK with all that fancy addons. It's like giving a biker slut fancy coctail to drink - just doesn't work...
</div></div>

Think it this way- If Mihail Kalashnikov´s parents would have been smart enough and leave Soviet Union, AK:s might have originally been made with decent parts...(ok, got carried away a bit) -and also I dont see how in earth decent, bearable trigger could be "fancy addon" at the first place...

Using crappy combloc/mid-east massproduced "ballpark-tolerance" parts doesent make AK reliable or "good". They all should be ditched and give slut a fair new chance...or not...


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I find them as addicting as Bolt guns , Glocks, and AR's. My favorite flavors tend to be Norinco's and Polytech's.

</div></div>

I have been told that Norincos biggest (accuracy related) problem is huge variation in barrel large calibers. Differences between rifles can be 0.004". Therefore some shoot good, with some hitting a barn is true challenge.

 

[RSR]

Re: why not an AK?

True , that the sights on an AK aren't top end but I think they are more than adequate to get the job done . I think that most people don't train with iron sights at all, whether that is with an AR or AK. Most people switch from their AR with dot sights and all the whiz bangs to an AK, and blame a lot on the AK rather than their basic marksmanship skills. Do thyey have their limitations? Yes. Are there crappy AK's? Yes.

I would trust comments by Larry Vickers and what he thinks of an AK. Well worth watching: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QABoEzyBm9w&feature=related

 

[MK14 SEI]

Re: why not an AK?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I have been told that Norincos biggest (accuracy related) problem is huge variation in barrel large calibers. Differences between rifles can be 0.004". Therefore some shoot good, with some hitting a barn is true challenge.

</div></div>

All of the stamped Norinco AKMs that fired have been very accurate. No accuracy problems experienced.

 

[JL]

Re: why not an AK?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I have been told that Norincos biggest (accuracy related) problem is huge variation in barrel large calibers. Differences between rifles can be 0.004". Therefore some shoot good, with some hitting a barn is true challenge.
</div></div>
All of the stamped Norinco AKMs that fired have been very accurate. No accuracy problems experienced. </div></div>

Local club has 10 or 15 norincos in 7.62x39, made around 2004-6 I´d guess.
One or two shoots decently, 2 or 3 fairly, and rest are just crab.
Crab beeing so horrible "groups" at 100meters that shooter cant really zero irons according to average POI. Holes are just all over paper, and next "group" might be different corner of paper- without even touching sights.
Glad that You had better luck. Who knows, maybe it was just a bad lot. Or something.


EDIT
Some easy DIY -updates- biker slut´s "extreme makeover" shouldnt be too expensive, right?

Felt recoil impulse reducement, it really makes a difference. Im using one too.
Also saves brass (if one is reloading), case exits earlyer smf doesent hit dustcover anymore.
All needed is piece of rubber (take slice from truck mudflap), drill and sharp blade.
Rubber in lower right worn out fast. Thickness was about half compared to one on left, and hole wasnt drilled.

Fast selector with pop-rivet, and also fast mag catch.
Catch extension doesent have to be that big. Easy to make, just a piece of sheetmetal.

Simple trigger pre-travel improve: (Tag-weld & file)

Advanced Mod1 of previous one- very short stages and short reset:

Sources: (in Finnish)
http://www.toiminta-ampujat.fi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=566
http://www.jarury.fi/wp-content/uploads//Viidensadan-projekti.pdf




Instead, this AKM / Enfield P14 update takes tad more dedication:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RSR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I would trust comments by Larry Vickers and what he thinks of an AK. Well worth watching: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QABoEzyBm9w&feature=related
</div></div>
About shooting techniques- Finnish army teaches to use AK magazine as support when prone. It gives really solid contact point. Mag side-play should always be taken off to same direction. Doesent matter which, always in same direction. In practice, rifle should be slightly canted when mag bottom touches ground. Then sturdy press towards ground -hold it- and squeeeeeeeze.

 

[sharac]

Re: why not an AK?

I used 1000grit to polish underside of trigger hook and an ear of a hammer, i get really nice crisp break (as nice and crisp AK can be...) but i left trigger travel as i like first stage to first resistance...

 

[medbill]

Re: why not an AK?

Has anyone checked this new rail out for AK's?

http://www.tacticalresponsegear.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=4289

 

[medbill]

Re: why not an AK?

New AK rail

 

[Daniel Barham]

Re: why not an AK?

Got a new one that I am finishing. Norinco heavy barrel
that shoots like a bolt gun with Chinese steel core.
Free floated forearm, Magpul stock, Tapco trigger components
and TWS rail. Should have it finished within a few weeks.
Cept for paint of course!

 

[CL1KKL4C]

Re: why not an AK?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slug</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Got a new one that I am finishing. Norinco heavy barrel
that shoots like a bolt gun with Chinese steel core.
Free floated forearm, Magpul stock, Tapco trigger components
and TWS rail. Should have it finished within a few weeks.
Cept for paint of course! </div></div>

Sounds quite intresting, really looking foward to some photos in the near future.

 

[Howie Feltersnatch]

Re: why not an AK?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1stmardiv</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I just got my first AK, cleaned it up, oiled it, and smoothed out all the spots where the function was sluggish. I took it to the range and put 100 rounds threw it and the thing is dead on at 150 (range doesn't offer targets further than that) so why are so many people against AKs saying they are lousy and inacurate. </div></div>

I'm glad to hear you like it. I think a lot of people say they are inaccurate when compared to other weapon systems, like an AR for instance. We all have to face the sights on the AK are quite rudimentary. There is very little distance between the rear sight leaf and front sight post leaves a lot to be desired at 4 and 5 hundred yards. We also have to look at how the AK functions. There is a huge piece of metal slamming back and forth every cycling (the carrier). Since it is a piston driven system it creates a lot more recoil than a gas gun, thus harder to be accurate on follow up shots. For anything inside 200 yards the AK is plenty accurate, and anything outside of that in a civilians situation we probably shouldn't ever engage. It would be pretty hard to explain to the police how you felt threatened at 300 yards away..haha. I think AK's are phenomenal weapons. It has been proven with history time and time again. Anyways, I'm with you. The AK is accurate in the environment that it was designed for. Sure, it could possibly be more accurate, but it's accurate enough!

 

[Mr blasty]

Re: why not an AK?

Aren't the sights only about an inch shorter than on an M4?

 

[frog5215]

Re: why not an AK?

If you mean radius, I don't think so.
The open rear sight on an AK has to be out on the trunnion so you can get some degree of focus.
The rear sight on an AR (a peep) is at the rear of the receiver, just in front of your eye, the whole length of the receiver further back.

 

[edwin907]

Re: why not an AK?

There are plenty of AK rifles out there that don't shoot, and plenty that do. You certainly can't tell by the appearance, although the much more expensive guns are often the better shooters.
But if you do get one that is inadequate for your needs in the accuracy department, just trade up.

I wish my experience with the Norinco rifles was so positive as the above poster, but it wasn't, most were poor in respect to accuracy. My third NHM-91 was the one I kept. I did find the Polytech rifles were more consistent. But good AK barrels are hit or miss.

The Krink I won on ar15.com turned out to be a particularly good shooter.
The milled Arsenal A1R I bought wasn't, sent it back and it's way way way better now, although the front sight is actually more canted than before (!!!!!...but well within spec, it shoots too good now to replace again for that!). I already had a RPK iron sight for it anyway, liked the adjustable peep sight but no confidence in it's ruggedness.

And then there is the Valmet M-78 .308. No, it won't give even an average 700 a run for it's money shooting groups, but, you load up some 168 match and, HMMM, an accurate AK?
Still need to update the mid 80's custom scope mount, got something in the works at the machine shop.

 

[JL]

Re: why not an AK?

G3 mag? Did you have to modify reciever a lot?

And yeah, that mount really needs a update. I bet groups will go down in half or so.

 

[YWHIC]

Re: why not an AK?

Hi..

I own 3 Saiga variants all converted back to pistol grip.

the 5.45 does shoot tighter.. under 2 1/2" at 100 yards. with fixed 6x32 scope all day. I did a 3 shot 1 1/4" group 1 time.. at 200 yards I can manage 5" groups (groups for me is 20-30 rounds) with it.

the 7.62x39 shoots like 4"-5" at 100yds with my 6moa Bushnell Trophy Red Dot. I'm sure it would TIGHTEN down with scope and patience.. at 200 yards I'm getting 6-8" as the red dot is TOO big.. need a 65 and 1moa dot version.. $$ though..

the last 308 with 21" bbl did a 3 shot 1 1/2" group out the box with the factory trigger.

just got a new 3-9x40scope and a brake coming in for it and just converted the FCG.. at 100 yards its doing honest 2" groups.. they tend to string up/down for me.. I got no patience..

going for 450-600 yards with Janis (S308) hopefully once I get ME dialed in..


Al

 

[AMOK!]

Re: why not an AK?

Investigating procurement of a Zastava M70AB2, a Yugoslavian variant of the AK47. The Yugo is a paratrooper model with heavy-duty receiver (1.5mm), U/F metal stock, and wood foregrip.

Appreciate any f/b from Hide members who run one. Mahalo!

 

[uhcoog1]

Re: why not an AK?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mwroseberry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had a saiga that I modified myself and shot 2-2.5MOA with it. It has more to do with the ammo than anything. The 7.62x39 falls on it's face at 300 yards. And in the sand box when my M16a4 was crapping out on me I was scooping up every AK I could get my hands on to keep me alive.

Do yourself a HUGE favor and get an AK74 muzzle brake for that AK in 7.62 and your muzzle climb will go from 4" per round to under an inch.

Good luck,
Merritt
SGT USMC vet. </div></div>
Thanks for the muzzle brake tip! I'll put it to use.

 

[1Sg (ret)]

Re: why not an AK?

They are what they are.The biggest problem with aks is the assembly.If you dont keep the front and rear trunnions strait it will look like a bananna.Its hard to get a rifle to shoot if its not strait.I have an old german kit on a nodak reciever.I have shot a couple 3 shot groups around 1.5 to 2in @100 with old chinese steel core ammo.The barrel in the kit is a steyer hammer forged chrome lined.In the US we generally keep our weapons clean.I was in Iraq in 05 working with the police.They cant even spell clean.They took the buttstocks off to burn to stay warm.An ar would be a single shot in that environment.Thus They are what they are.

 

[Hutchman20]

Re: why not an AK?

AKs might not be as accurate, but when you get the right one the can be very reliable, especially since you can pretty much beat them up and they continue to perform.

 

[Dionis]

Re: why not an AK?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Red_SC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lazy21</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Everyone in America should own an AK47
</div></div> NO......every American should own a ar, you terrorist

</div></div>

Everyone in America should own both.

</div></div>

+1



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

[Mike_in_FL]

Re: why not an AK?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BillyLo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like the expression I heard from someone, the AR15 is the prom queen the AK is the biker slut. </div></div>

I heard it as prom queen and biker chick from Sonny Puzikas on the Military Channel most likely.

 

[nimoz]

Re: why not an AK?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AustinCQC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6BpI3xD6h0

This video does a good job explaining why the AK isn't as accurate as the AR platform. Two different thoughts behind their designs and purposes. I'm definitely not nocking the AK, but for accuracy, there are many other semi-auto choices.

From some mercs that have come back from Iraq and Afganistan, they said its like a turkey shoot. They can engage their targets with little threat of getting hit by enemy fire due to the limitations of the 7.62x39.

I'm sure the AK in this video could have been shot more accurately though. Did anybody else see him slapping the trigger? </div></div>

Old thread, and I like my AK - but I have to say that that video lost all credibility when they classify the rifles main purpose based on a switch. (And I'm not sure I bought the balance story either.)

What I did enjoy reading was this:
http://demigodllc.com/articles/7.62x39-improving-the-military-standard/

I have a Aimpoint clone on mine, beats the irons sights, that I have a hard time lining up due to the stock.
- Don't mind that thing on my trigger guard, it's a CA novelty.

 

[cttbax]

Re: why not an AK?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: D Ice 308</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Red_SC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lazy21</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Everyone in America should own an AK47
</div></div> NO......every American should own a ar, you terrorist

</div></div>

Everyone in America should own both.

</div></div>

+1



Uploaded with ImageShack.us </div></div>\
What rail is that on the AK?

 

[Dionis]

Re: why not an AK?

rail is from
UTG

 

[Buddhapapa]

Re: why not an AK?

Because I have a Galil.

 

[pawprint]

Re: why not an AK?

The problem with the AK is like the problem with a Pick-Up truck. Some trucks are far better than others. Valmet's are very good rifles, one poster on this sting has mentioned the Finnish Army standards, he is right on. The old 7.62x39 ammo (and I mean old) fired through a lot of parts guns has given the AK a bad rap in the states, however; a well made AK, with new well made ammo (lapua comes to mind) shoots very well. One thing the AK is better at than almost any other common rifle is: it is as RELIABLE as a hammer, and hits hard. It is apples and oranges to compare parts gun AK's with high quality built AR's, I believe you must compare dollar value, in other words how much AR can you get for the same price? It would be far more fair to compare a draganov to an AR- we'd be getting a lot closer to dollar for dollar comparison, and while it is modified, it is still an AK system. Just a thought.

 

[Tact999]

Re: why not an AK?

I have both ARs and AKs. The old AR and AK debate is always amusing and seems to always center on accuracy. I love both (favorites are LWRC M6A2 and Fullerized MAK-90 from RD). Accuracy to many means sitting in a controlled environment shooting for groups. That's great and all but try running around under with some stress, you know like combat, and tell me how your AR groups will be so much better than an AK. I am sure 4 MOA groups will be more realistic with BOTH platforms under duress. There currently is a rail mount from Texas Brigade Armory that replaces the top cover and one can enjoy the benefits of an ACOG made specifically for the 7.62x39 round. Either way the AK deserves some love and +1 for training the whole family on them both. The side folders are great to throw in the Jihad Interdiction Bag in the back of the truck!