Why put a red dot on 1-8x

[redroan45]

Forgive my ignorance for the stupid question but why add a reflex red dot to a 1-8 like the ATACR. I thought that was the whole point of the 1x with the daylight bright dot. I am mounting this on my KAC LPR for my truck gun and for that kind of money should I just do a 4-20 with a reflex on it instead? Thanks again

 

[simonp]

I’d agree with your reasoning - I’d skip a dot on a LPVO personally

 

[Evolution 9]

Red dot serves 4-5 purposes (at least).

1. If a threat pops up very close while you’re on 8x, it’s WAY faster to rotate slightly and engage with an offset red dot.

2. An offset red dot is WAY better than iron sights as a backup sighting system if your primary is compromised by fog, mud, or damage.

3. An offset red dot is WAY better/faster than the 1-8 for passive night vision use.

4. When on 8x, if you’re not immediately finding your target in your (small) FOV, rotating to the red dot, and rotating back after you’re on target, is WAY faster than other known methods.

5. When using a clip-on (NV or thermal) it’s WAY faster to rotate and use the red dot if a threat is close and requires white light.

And on and on and on.

If you’re a paper shooter (nothing wrong with that), there’s probably no advantage.

Why not pair a 4-16 with the red dot?…

Some of the previous does apply. But the 4-16 will be much heavier. The objective will get at least partially in the field of view of the red dot.

Additionally, most people find a 1-8 on 1x to be faster than an offset red dot, so you’re giving up speed.

If you have a clip on (NV or thermal) you’re giving up significant speed/resolution by going with a 4x bottom end instead of a 1x.

 

[TimK]

I have dots mounted on top of my 1-8 and 1-10. Not offset. It's super fast doing "up" drills. No canting of the rifle required. That was a happy side effect. I mounted them up top to be easier to use with nods. Final selling point, if you buy a decent dot, battery life is measured in years, not hours.

 

[FatBoy]

If you compete in events with VTAC barricades, a piggyback red dot is often easier to get behind in mailbox slots, etc. also easier for me, when shooting under a vehicle if I have to lay my rifle flat.

These are marginal for most, and I can’t claim it’s made me any more successful, but when I do get NODS I’m already set up.

 

[ECK]

I run a red dot on a 45 deg offset mount on my AR I use for 3-gun. This way I can leave the LPVO on 4 or 6x and use the red dot for close-in. I also found I am more stable when shooting on the move with the rifle canted 45 deg.

Last reason I like the 45 deg offset, for those hard left side leans around a wall or prop (I’m a righty). I also run a 45 deg offset red dot on my PCC for that reason.

 

[cas6969]

^ All the above.

It comes down to having options. I understand the question, I used to ask myself the same thing with my 3 gun rifle with 1-4 and offset irons. (were no 6x, 8x scopes then) But every now and then having both was an advantage.

 

[01911]

There is no daylight bright LPVO that I’ve come across but nice glass and a non illuminated etched reticle is almost as fast on 1X as a dedicated red dot if you’re in a Great Plains / desert daylight bright type of deal. I have a red dot on my 1-10 ( when hunting in East Texas, Louisiana, etc ) because in any lighting scenario the red dot atop the mount will offer me the opportunity to take on that charging hog, etc, without hesitation or LPVO adjustments.
So an mpvo with an RMR HD atop does make more sense in most of the country but I only have the one scope and it’s all I need west of Dallas.

 

[Namekagon]

x100 on using a red dot mounted on top of an LPVO for use with NODs. It works well, and to me this is THE reason to do it.

During the day an offset dot will not be faster than an LPVO thats set to 1x.

 

[tucaz]

i’ve been using the xs big dot offset fixed irons on scoped rifles, even with a 1-6x vx6hd. mainly because that rifle is intended to spend most of its time zoomed in.

they are far from a red dot but i’ve gotten proficient with them at 20yds

have a tr24 that was set up to be a 1x rifle mainly. nothing extra on that one.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

For a truck gun? No point. Unless it might be deployed for things other than recreation or hunting. For other uses, see all the above.

Strictly speaking about speed during the day between LPVO and RDS, as long as you still take shots if you happen to have some scope shadow (not wasting time if you have bad sight picture in an odd position), it's been pretty well proven neither is faster.

However, that's talking speed and speed only. The other things such as situation awareness and such are a different conversation.

 

[Cutout]

There is no daylight bright LPVO that I’ve come across but nice glass and a non illuminated etched reticle is almost as fast on 1X as a dedicated red dot if you’re in a Great Plains / desert daylight bright type of deal. I have a red dot on my 1-10 ( when hunting in East Texas, Louisiana, etc ) because in any lighting scenario the red dot atop the mount will offer me the opportunity to take on that charging hog, etc, without hesitation or LPVO adjustments.
So an mpvo with an RMR HD atop does make more sense in most of the country but I only have the one scope and it’s all I need west of Dallas.

The ATACR in question is daylight bright. You're right that most LPVOs are not, but that one is.

 

[hlee]

Red dot serves 4-5 purposes (at least).

1. If a threat pops up very close while you’re on 8x, it’s WAY faster to rotate slightly and engage with an offset red dot.

2. An offset red dot is WAY better than iron sights as a backup sighting system if your primary is compromised by fog, mud, or damage.

3. An offset red dot is WAY better/faster than the 1-8 for passive night vision use.

4. When on 8x, if you’re not immediately finding your target in your (small) FOV, rotating to the red dot, and rotating back after you’re on target, is WAY faster than other known methods.

5. When using a clip-on (NV or thermal) it’s WAY faster to rotate and use the red dot if a threat is close and requires white light.

And on and on and on.

If you’re a paper shooter (nothing wrong with that), there’s probably no advantage.

Why not pair a 4-16 with the red dot?…

Some of the previous does apply. But the 4-16 will be much heavier. The objective will get at least partially in the field of view of the red dot.

Additionally, most people find a 1-8 on 1x to be faster than an offset red dot, so you’re giving up speed.

If you have a clip on (NV or thermal) you’re giving up significant speed/resolution by going with a 4x bottom end instead of a 1x.

While I agree with most all of the points, to point 1; if the threat is that close, just put the LPVO reticle on the fuzzy blob and pull the trigger.

 

[dms416]

In the spirit of full disclosure, I used to think it was dumb...mostly on the thought that it's 2x separate optics to care for...but have fully reversed my opinion and have benefitted greatly from having micro red dots paired with my LPVO's

- Back up red dots trump back up irons (especially if they're folded offsets or require the optic to be removed...most of you aren't rockin' Dueck's). (Always have a back-up)

- LPVO's fucking SUCK batteries dry FAST if you leave them on. If you use these things, you'll have this happen from time to time. If your LPVO is electronic-dependent on 1x to be effective...kiss that half of the LPVO feature set goodbye

- Whether piggy-back or offset....it's always faster than hitting that magnification ring... (enter the "switchview")


Have your cake and eat it too. Someone here said it very well in another thread..."the LPVO is the best option for the unknown". Adding an mRDS just fills in a few cracks the LPVO can leave open either by form or by the user.

Most here are adults (at least I hope so) and you can choose your own adventure.

 

[st1650]

I like a motion activated MRDS on top of a LPVO.

1- For passive NV aiming.
2- For backup if the LPVO doesn't have motion activated battery/autolive and I left the rotary dial on the wrong position. One time in low light I bumped face to face with a fucking bear and the LPVO battery died right there and I couldn't see the tiny reticle (was FFP) at 1x.
Not cool.
507Comps are so cheap and they last forever and weight nothing ...
You can also use the bottom of the circle dot reticle as an aiming point for 10yards in for your close range offset

 

[Docsherm]

Passive NVG aiming is about the only reason to have one.

If you are at 8X or even 20X, you should be able to open your non-dominate eye and be able to shoot close targets. I have demonstrated this may times. it is the exact same concept as shooting a PVS14 on the non-dominate eye and using a Reflex sight with your dominate eye.

 

[FatBoy]

Anyone else find it interesting we are still talking about a concept/practice that started with the Block1/MK12 SPR program over 20 years ago?

Granted, the original SPR scopes are what we now call MPVO, (another widely debated topic) but the form factor and function is the same.

All that is old is new again…

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Anyone else find it interesting we are still talking about a concept/practice that started with the Block1/MK12 SPR program over 20 years ago?

Granted, the original SPR scopes are what we now call MPVO, (another widely debated topic) but the form factor and function is the same.

All that is old is new again…

People are still arguing over needing to pick either an LPVO or an RDS/Holo instead of just recognizing/admitting they both have a place depending on the primary role for the rifle. People still argue over the weight of LPVOs when it's 8oz heavier than their idea of perfection but then put an RDS/Holo + magnifier on other rifles that weight about the same as the "heavy" LPVO.

For like 20+ years now. Unfortunately, if there was no arguing things that don't really matter in real life, or applying logic equally across the board......forums would be quite dead.

 

[Burdy]

And therein lies the problem with asking anyone else what they think about a particular setup. You should define your own use case, objectively assess your skill level and back in to your setups. Sure, there are agreed upon standard practices for everything and getting waaay outside that is likely to prove futile but you should give yourself plenty of flexibility to meet your specifics, even if you have to get outside the guard rail from time to time.

I've tried every height mount imaginable for LPVOs and Red Dot/Holographics and arrived at particular setups that meet my shooting style and demands. I love the piggybacked red dot, and I even set up my EOTECHs to be at the same height that my red dots are when over the top of an LPVO.

I use lower LPVOs mounts than most and my setup basically ends up working like a glorified Leupold DEVO. Works for me, might not work for you.

I'm from the "beware of the man with one gun" philosophy, but who wants one gun? So I get around this by making sure every single AR I own has the same stock, grip, trigger, safety, buffer system, sling, charging handle, forward assist, sight height and hand stop location/distance along with the same LOP.

It's a PITA to ensure this on every build, but it's worth it. Doesn't matter the caliber or barrel length, when I pick up the rifle, it's like an old friend. The only caveat to that is my "coyote hunting" AR where everything is the same except I use 1.54"mount there to mate up nicely to clip-ons.

The point of all this is that you should build the gun for yourself and unfortunately, that will require experimentation and lots of buys and sells until you find the configuration that works best for you. This is not a one size fits all game.

 

[Convex]

The point of all this is that you should build the gun for yourself and unfortunately, that will require experimentation and lots of buys and sells until you find the configuration that works best for you. This is not a one size fits all game.

Just like trying to find the right woman...

a little Burdy told me.

 

[Oldguy03]

Even with a 1-6x VX6HD, I have been using the XS Big Dot Offset Fixed Irons on scoped rifles.