Why the .308?

[rookie7]

Okay, so I searched through 30 pages of material on here last night searching for this topic without any luck.

What I did discover/learn was about the 115gr .243 bullets out there.

My question is this: why the .308 win for long range shooting? Excluding military and LE it seems there are better choices out there for the average guy.

I don't know anything about F-class competition, but from my readings it seems that they restrict caliber used? Which my add to the popularity of the .308?

I have nothing against the cartridge. My father owns 2 bolts in .308, and I have one and sold another.

But for the non-competitive guy who just likes to shoot are there better choices?

.243? 7mm08? 25/06? .270? .280? I had one guy tell me there is a greater selection of factory match ammo for the .308 win which helps contribute. I get that, but aren't most long range shooters handloaders?

If the .308 can hit at 800 yds, can't the .243 win do it and with less recoil?

Just curious - not trying to be a smartbutt, just looking for an education.

thank you

 

[insectguy]

Re: Why the .308?

Perhaps not quite as eloquent or technical a response as you were hoping, here is why I just got a rifle in .308:

1. It is very well known, with the BCs mapped very well
2. The ammo is relatively cheap because of a greater demand
3. Since I already had one .308, I wanted to minimize my calibers.
4. The recoil is manageable

And that's my shallow reasoning. As for overall, there are people much more knowledgeable than I to answer this.

 

[desertHK]

Re: Why the .308?

Well the 308 cartridge is as classic as a Corvette. So everyone has to have one (still waiting for mine from our President -- Yah right!).

You are absolutely right to say that there are other calibers that are more suitable for longer ranges and has less recoil. Yes, my 243 can probably stretch out to about 1200 yards, so does my 308 and 300 win mag, and 338 LM.

Cost wise, the more exotic the cartridge, the more expensive it gets. To get the high enough BC in the 243 win cartridge, you need to go heavy. This also costs more. My 105 grains scenars costs about the same as the 155 scenars for my 308. In fact, it is a bit more expensive for the 105 scenars. And that's not even the best BC yet. You want to go to the 115 grains. Once you go there, you are now talking about custom throat, chamber, etc... Now, you are going to put down more Benjamin Franklins. Whereas, with the 308, you can get a decent stock Remy, good scope and you are GTG long range.

Also, on a very windy day like out here in the desert, a heavier bullet will buckle the wind better. I have compare my 208 AMAX and my 250 scenars, comparable BC but night and day difference on ballistics. Hope that helps.

 

[rookie7]

Re: Why the .308?

I appreciate the input guys.

DesertHK,

I knew there was more to it than what's on paper. If you look at the charts the .270 and .243 drop less at 500 yards with factory remington ammo compared to the .308, but real world experience and cost also play a factor.

The .308 isn't very plentiful around here right now. You can pick up all the .243 and .270 you would want at WalMart. Academy sports has a little better selection.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Why the .308?

270/280 are nice hunting rounds. For LR shooting lots are going 6.5mm-6.5x47, 260, 6.5 Creedmore, etc.

I shoot 308 for quite a few reasons. Mainly being its a classic, there are buttloads of workable loads out there. Huge selection of bullets. There's Factory Match loads available from moist manufacturers. Yeah its got more drop and drift than a lot of loads, but its very predictable.
One of the biggest reasons I like it is barrel life. 243 and other 6mm hotrod loads may shoot like lasers if loaded properly, but a 308 with time proven 168 and 175 loads will shoot 5000-10000 rounds without the accuracy going away, try that in a 243.....

 

[dontstrokeme]

Re: Why the .308?

Simply put think of the 240gr SMK out of a 308 Win as a loaded log truck going 55 mph....slower for sure but heavy and has alot of momentum.

Now take the 243 Win with 115 DTAC or other heavy for caliber bullet....call it a Miata with a 302 SB Ford going 90 mph.....faster than shit and very light......

Now put a parachute behind each of them....the Miata will slow down alot sooner than the log truck......velocity and drop is not all of the picture. The energy/velocity retained plays a large part as well.

Momentum is where long range work begins, shows with the 223 to 1k yards...can be done but with a heavy bullet. A 55 gr will blow all over the place and 3100fps isn't fast enough to get it there before it looses momentum and is pushed around beyond compensation....a 77gr or heavier will resist the wind better because of the momentum it carries.

Not to start a flame war because I do know that it is a lot more complex than that explenation but it should get you the jist of why the 308 Win is popular.....it is a happy comprimise.

 

[dmg308]

Re: Why the .308?

With a 308 you get 6-8k barrel life.

 

[Furner]

Re: Why the .308?

I think that a few years ago .308 made more sense as places stocked a lot of it. So a lot of people owned .308 rifles. Now that ammo is scare and people are in full-on hoarding mode, the more odd calibers are all that is left on the shelf.

.308 still makes sense especially for those who own several different patterns of rifles that fire .308, and I am sure that .308 will become more available soon.

 

[Asm1]

Re: Why the .308?

I can beat a 308 5 times harder and longer than hotrod calibers.


punished with rainbow trajectory and slaped by the wind like a leaf spank me mother nature i like it like that.

thats what shooting a 308 feels like on a mild windy day past 600 yards.

308's make shooters work for it...I like to work!

 

[paraman1]

Re: Why the .308?

Shoot a Larue target with a 100-120 grain bullet going nearly 3000 FPS and then shoot it with a 175 grain bullet going 2650 FPS . Retained energy , predictable ballistics , comparitively inexpensive ammo and long barrel life all make the .308 a good choice especially if your just starting out in this game .

Are there calibers that will do it batter ballistically speaking ? Look no further than some of the magnums and the new Short Mags and you see some definite advantages but it all comes at the price of barrel life or recoil .

Thats just my view from the cheap seats though .

 

[nashlaw]

Re: Why the .308?

As stated many times before:

lots of load flexibility

does a lot of things PRETTY good

if I have a .308, I have projectiles on hand for my 30-06

the .308 defines "all around"

minimizes the amount of reloading goods I have to keep on hand(powder= RL15, Varget, IMR 4064: bullets: 155 SMKs, 175 SMKs)

heck, besides, I just like it because it ain't fussy to load for

david

 

[Conqueror]

Re: Why the .308?

For me, ammo availability is a huge plus. I reload but sometimes I use factory ammo. Until the Obamamania I could walk into any sporting goods store in the country and find decent .308 ammo. Not so with the other calibers (.243 and .270 are still widely carried, but not in as much variety where I live).

The .243 is out for me as some places require over .25" to hunt with. I considered the .270 but .308 is just a classic.

 

[rookie7]

Re: Why the .308?

I've got a .243, .308, and a .270. This particular .308 - an sps tactical - is the only rifle I have ever bought that was not intended to be a hunting rifle.

I have killed a trailer load of deer with the .243. I had a Ruger m77 stainless with factory iron sights with the skeleton stock. Ya'll remember that one? Anyway, with IMR 4064 and 95grain nosler balistic tips it would shoot 5/16" 5 shot groups at 100 yds all day long. Yes, I was dumb enough to sell it.

My dad has a remingon 600 with a medium contour douglas barrel and a timiney trigger. It shoots real nice. I don't know what kind of recoil lug it has b/c it is bigger than the standard remington and it actually sticks up higher than the action. He's always been a .308 man though. He's hunted with a Ruger ultra light for over 20 years.

I'm rambling - mainly b/c my wife has no interest in talking to me about this stuff.

Anyway - I was looking at the ballistic charts and saw what the .270 would do, and I asked myself why did I just drop money on an sps tac in .308 when my .270 will reach out there?

By the way, what are SMK's? I've been a hunter and plinker all my life. Never a serious long range shooter. Longest shot I've ever made on a deer was 275 yards with 130 grain ballistic tip .270. I thought that was far!

 

[desertHK]

Re: Why the .308?

SMK= Sierra Match King.

 

[OFIS]

Re: Why the .308?

if you want to beat the dogma: 260 REM

 

[HoldfastCDO]

Re: Why the .308?

Why?

I grew up with .303's as kid. Hated the Lee Enfield it kicked like a mule; oh the pain. Then we tried Bren Guns as kids, that was great, less kick.

Then came the time to learn about the SLR in 7.62mm, ahh less pain, then the Heavier barreled auto SLR, Mmm great. Then the 7.62 Bren; just fantastic.

Then the GPMG M60 firing 4 ball one trace and that was bloody amazing on the tripod or bipod. Those fire-power demonstrations when you see tracer zipping away for a couple of miles is just fun and there's no pain, except when cleaning the thing or you get your arse kicked for a cook-off or burnt hands from changing barrels.

Then there's the L7, Mmm.

So, then you have some money and because you are use to 7.62mm what do you buy?

Of course, the best you can afford as a young bloke, a Sako .308; then the realization that you can get bullets and handload to kill anything from a rabbit to a Sambar.

I can't speak for others, but knowing the capabilities of that somewhat small bullet and knowing that if you have good marksmanship skills then there isn't many creatures that you can't drop using a 308 with the correct ammo.

 

[bohem]

Re: Why the .308?

For all the popularity reasons of the 308 and it's easy bullets and components to get I applied that reasoning to the 30-06 and built one of those.

I have a 308 as well that shoots very nicely. The 06 beats the 308 hands down with bullets past 170 grains, and a 180-190 SMK or Berger is a super bullet to launch from a 30-06. IMO there's a lot to be said from the quote "There's not much you can't fix, with 700 dollars and a thirty aught six."

I'm currently trying to get a bit of final feedback on building a 6.5-06 to make sure I'm not screwing myself royally, but there's just something about that case which has a real calling to me.

 

[gugubica]

Re: Why the .308?

.308 equals vesatility.

It is widely available. It is a NATO caliber. It can do everything that most other calibers can do, just not quite as well, but it can do it all.

Is it a fast ammo, no. But it is fast enough. Is it a large round, no. But it is large enough.

A .260 or a .338LM or a 7mmWSM are all sexy and do what they do very well, but they also all have huge drawnbacks as well.

 

[linebaugh500]

Re: Why the .308?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gugubica</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A .260 or a .338LM or a 7mmWSM are all sexy and do what they do very well, but they also all have huge drawnbacks as well. </div></div>

The .338 Lapua is in an entirely different class (size, power, and range) than the other calibers previously mentioned in this thread. You don't buy a .243/.260/.308 <span style="font-style: italic">or</span> a .338 Lapua, you buy a .243/.260/.308 <span style="font-weight: bold">and</span> a .338 Lapua.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Why the .308?

Experience

It just works. Well enough that I haven't felt the need to switch.

I may build another rifle in the future to play with other .308 class cartridges. But then the fact is that I would still spend more time shooting the .308 since it is my primary rifle.

 

[dinc]

Re: Why the .308?

I'll take a post-mortem swack at the horse.

Why .308?

-If you don't reload it's going to be by far the easiest to get accurate ammo for. If you reload it will probably still be the easiest.

-If you are actually shooting at something, not just poking holes in paper, it's energy and momentum are readily apparent and useful.

-If you want to win the match, game it and shoot the 6. If you want to judge your shooting ability against a known equal measure and/or have the consistancy necessary when assisting others, the .308 is it.

 

[Kaisersose]

Re: Why the .308?

Easier resale value than alot of other calibers, i.e. 300 win mag, 260 and so on .

Honestly how many people shoot past 300 yards anyway where the other cartridges really shine.

Before the commodity metals prices spiked and our fearless leader took office you could buy "Good" 308 surplus dirt cheap. Really almost as cheap as loading match grade. Not as cheap as 7.62 x 39 but still really cheap. ( well and the war and Clinton area) Seriously how many guys remember picking up as SKS for $69 bucks new in the cosmoline.

Like all the other calibers mentioned could find cheap brass because of Military adoption.

I used to be able to buy 30-06 in 240 round spam cans for $40 bucks and it would easily shoot under 1 moa out of service grade M1 garand I won matches with it until everybody made the switch to Ar-15.

 

[anesvick]

Re: Why the .308?

All the other rounds listed might work better, but will never achieve the popularity, due to the fact that the 308 has been a military loading for going on 50 years now, and its still used, why is it still used?

Consistency.

name one other round that is consistently accurate out of ANY gun (barring major problems) Heck, with cheapo remmy ammo, I get 1moa out of my Howa, a $475 rifle.

243s, and 270s are horribly ammo finicky, never have found that to be the case with any 308 that I've handled.

 

[montyb]

Re: Why the .308?

i see ONLY ONE endearing quality of the .308. economy. and the .223 beats the .308 at that game.

 

[diggler1833]

Re: Why the .308?

20 posts and I haven't seen the obvious answer...why not?

Sure there are a hell of a lot more ballistically superior cartridges to the .308. It doesn't mean that the .308 isn't a fun and therefore great round to shoot. It is still an efficient cartridge too.

Why the .308? Because everyone should own one.

 

[scotharr]

Re: Why the .308?

If you only want one gun, then its very hard to beat the 308WIN. Then if you decide to specialize, there are cartridges based on the 308 case that will allow you to create a switch barrel rifle, thereby saving you some cash. 260REM, 243WIN both are based on the 308 case and can be used with the same action/stock (different barrel of course)

 

[Swamper]

Re: Why the .308?

The .308 Winchester offers excellent accuracy and Long Barrel Life.

The .284 Win, .260Rem, and .243 can offer greater longrange potential, but competitors usually see 1200 rd barrel life with these over bore cartridges.

7mm-08 might be better in terms of barrel life, but you run into the problem of trying to balance longer bullet length to obtain high ballistic coefficiency and they produce problems in short action rifles.

The .308 is not perfect, but it is about the best all-around cartridge for match or general purpose use.

 

[dar1246]

Re: Why the .308?

One gun it would be the 308. Barrel life, easy to load for, shoots great.

 

[rookie7]

Re: Why the .308?

I appreciate you guys giving input! It's always interesting to see another person's perspective on things. Something's always different.

I love a 30-30, and I do love the .308win. I will never get rid of my Ruger M77 .270 b/c it was my first "big game" rifle given to me when I was 11 or 12.

Alot of people recommend .223, .243, .260, 7mm08, and .308win for youth starting out in hunting. I used to disagree with anything over the .260 (which I've never shot) due to the recoil for small children. However, with Remington's managed recoil ammo the .308win kicks less than the .243. Plus, I can load .308 down to .300 savage levels.

So, when my son gets ready to deer hunt we may have to find him a good bolt in .308. My sps tac won't be the right fit for that.

 

[19818119]

Re: Why the .308?

What I think makes it great is that it is the ultimate jack of all trades. There are without question far better calibers when one starts looking at specific applications but none I can think of that offer such variety of use.

A .308 can be loaded using projectiles from 110gr through to over 200gr. If you want long range performance you can load the 155gr Lapua Scenars and drive them fast. If you want deadly on game performance load up some Barnes/Hornady/Nosler etc and you are GTG.

If the SHTF you know .308 can be had in abundance and there is oodles of load information for reloaders. Barrel life is phenomenal, accuracy is easy to attain via handloading and with factory ammo. A non fussy caliber in a short action light recoiling rifle.

The .308 is easy to love.

 

[Equlizer_3rd]

Re: Why the .308?

Look I have always believed "no replacement for displacement" I never wanted a 308, I had a 30-06, well I got to looking and the 308 is very capable from 50 yards to 800 yards. The Army uses it as a sniper round the Marines use it as a sniper round police use it as a sniper round. It does the job. Like my grandpa always tells me "How dead do you want it"!