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Why the 308?
- Thread starter jambau
- Start date
Re: Why the 308?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KNIGHT11B4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here we go... </div></div>
My thoughts exactly!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KNIGHT11B4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here we go... </div></div>
My thoughts exactly!
Re: Why the 308?
NATO round, tons of knowledge in reference to load development, cheap compared to some stuff (6.5x47, 300 wsm, win mag) stuff like that.
It does not do one thing extremely well but does many things good.
NATO round, tons of knowledge in reference to load development, cheap compared to some stuff (6.5x47, 300 wsm, win mag) stuff like that.
It does not do one thing extremely well but does many things good.
Re: Why the 308?
Yep, agreed.
Why?
Wonder why they didnt ask that question back in the 50th when they adopted the round and forced it into NATO.
A big mistake if you ask me.....
Håkan
Yep, agreed.
Why?
Wonder why they didnt ask that question back in the 50th when they adopted the round and forced it into NATO.
A big mistake if you ask me.....
Håkan
Re: Why the 308?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tikka09</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> What about the 7mm-08?
Tikka09</div></div>
Clue is in the name. There would not be a 7-08 (or 260 or 243) without a 308 first. These other rounds only came into being because of the widespread use of the 308 and availability of the 308 brass.
As to the 'it's better' argument, maybe, but it isn't 'better' by enough to justify the switch from 308 or indeed starting there.
7-08 ammo (260, 243 etc etc) costs $2 per round over here vs 50c. Same with 223. I can't reload for that price. So you can keep your 'better' rounds and I will shoot 4 times as much as I would otherwise and never notice the 'inadequacies' of the 308.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tikka09</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> What about the 7mm-08?
Tikka09</div></div>
Clue is in the name. There would not be a 7-08 (or 260 or 243) without a 308 first. These other rounds only came into being because of the widespread use of the 308 and availability of the 308 brass.
As to the 'it's better' argument, maybe, but it isn't 'better' by enough to justify the switch from 308 or indeed starting there.
7-08 ammo (260, 243 etc etc) costs $2 per round over here vs 50c. Same with 223. I can't reload for that price. So you can keep your 'better' rounds and I will shoot 4 times as much as I would otherwise and never notice the 'inadequacies' of the 308.
Re: Why the 308?
These are all good arguments in favor of the .308. Like the .30-'06 it replaced, it will continue to soldier on even after being dropped (which it has, except for specialty applications) by the mainstream military. Just too well established.
Doesn't make other chamberings and derivatives a bad idea, they're just not on the same faster track.
I like derivatives, like the .260 Rem and the .280 (Rem derived from the '06). I think they put the individual case capacities to more efficient usage.
People will point out that dirivatives, etc., will necessitate handloading for full potential and better affordability as if this were some sort of drawback. But to my mind, most every round (in any rifle chambering) that I use is going to be a handload anyway; so that's no impediment for me.
For hunting rounds, I prefer factory loads, and that's why I don't employ wildcats. For shotgun, factory loads also make more sense for me; for simplicity sake, and also for liability reasons should they get used for personal defense (not really all that likely for me, though...).
Shotguns would be my tool of choice for home defense in the unlikely instance where such issues might arise. As for things I have worth stealing, my guns would be at the top fo that list, and I can pretty much promise that at least one of them should be really hard to take. Like toe tags, buckshot is a sort of 'one size fits all' implement.
Greg
These are all good arguments in favor of the .308. Like the .30-'06 it replaced, it will continue to soldier on even after being dropped (which it has, except for specialty applications) by the mainstream military. Just too well established.
Doesn't make other chamberings and derivatives a bad idea, they're just not on the same faster track.
I like derivatives, like the .260 Rem and the .280 (Rem derived from the '06). I think they put the individual case capacities to more efficient usage.
People will point out that dirivatives, etc., will necessitate handloading for full potential and better affordability as if this were some sort of drawback. But to my mind, most every round (in any rifle chambering) that I use is going to be a handload anyway; so that's no impediment for me.
For hunting rounds, I prefer factory loads, and that's why I don't employ wildcats. For shotgun, factory loads also make more sense for me; for simplicity sake, and also for liability reasons should they get used for personal defense (not really all that likely for me, though...).
Shotguns would be my tool of choice for home defense in the unlikely instance where such issues might arise. As for things I have worth stealing, my guns would be at the top fo that list, and I can pretty much promise that at least one of them should be really hard to take. Like toe tags, buckshot is a sort of 'one size fits all' implement.
Greg
Re: Why the 308?
Availability and accessibility.
At least for me, same reason I hunt with a .30-30 and a .270.
Availability and accessibility.
At least for me, same reason I hunt with a .30-30 and a .270.
Re: Why the 308?
This country has a long tradition of civilians making use of military cartridges. We like to shoot the guns our people in green shoot. Imitation as a form of flattery? Or maybe this stems from service people coming out of the service and going back to what they were used to.
Add to that that alot of shooting competitions have restrictions to use 308 Win (think highpower service rifle, Palma).
I'm sure that it is more than possible that police agencies gravitate towards using the same equipment that the military uses (think the 700 PSS).
It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. The more popular it becomes, the more entrenched it becomes, the more people want to use it because it is popular and easy to get bullets, brass, decent factory ammo, load data, etc. This is how cartridges become immortal. It doesn't matter that there are more better/efficient/modern choices out there. Look at the 30-30 Win? 45 ACP? Immortality.
This country has a long tradition of civilians making use of military cartridges. We like to shoot the guns our people in green shoot. Imitation as a form of flattery? Or maybe this stems from service people coming out of the service and going back to what they were used to.
Add to that that alot of shooting competitions have restrictions to use 308 Win (think highpower service rifle, Palma).
I'm sure that it is more than possible that police agencies gravitate towards using the same equipment that the military uses (think the 700 PSS).
It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. The more popular it becomes, the more entrenched it becomes, the more people want to use it because it is popular and easy to get bullets, brass, decent factory ammo, load data, etc. This is how cartridges become immortal. It doesn't matter that there are more better/efficient/modern choices out there. Look at the 30-30 Win? 45 ACP? Immortality.
Re: Why the 308?
That, and once it becomes a military standard the ammunition becomes a dirt cheap commodity. It's hard to buy anything in its range for twice the price. I'd probably be better off with a 6.5 Creedmoor, but I have no idea what I'll be able to find for brass in five years much less fifty...
That, and once it becomes a military standard the ammunition becomes a dirt cheap commodity. It's hard to buy anything in its range for twice the price. I'd probably be better off with a 6.5 Creedmoor, but I have no idea what I'll be able to find for brass in five years much less fifty...
Re: Why the 308?
Personal Prefrence....I just like it. Easy to find good match ammo without having to roll my own.
Personal Prefrence....I just like it. Easy to find good match ammo without having to roll my own.
Re: Why the 308?
for me it's familiarity.
I know the cartridge well. I have a bunch of rifles that shoot it.
I am in the market for a 6.5mm for a dedicated "match" rifle, but I still love the .308 Winchester.
for me it's familiarity.
I know the cartridge well. I have a bunch of rifles that shoot it.
I am in the market for a 6.5mm for a dedicated "match" rifle, but I still love the .308 Winchester.
Re: Why the 308?
There are a lot of answers to this question that speak very well for the .308 and a lot that don't speak well for it . It's understood that there are numerous rounds that are ballistically superior, but the reason why I personally choose the .308 over many others (in a working gun) are:
I know the round very well
A lot of high quality, factory Match loadings available....everywhere
It's cheaper to shoot
It's easy to shoot accurately
There's enough bore volume that the rifle can be a shorter package and still perform to it's potential, i.e., you don't need a 24 to 26" barrel to make it work
When the .308 is used within what it was designed to do, it performs very well. It was never intended to be a wonder magnum or to shoot slippery little bullets at extreme distance without needing to use a lot of elevation in the optic (and I'm sure NATO didn't care about this either).
It is what it is and it does what it does.
There are a lot of answers to this question that speak very well for the .308 and a lot that don't speak well for it . It's understood that there are numerous rounds that are ballistically superior, but the reason why I personally choose the .308 over many others (in a working gun) are:
I know the round very well
A lot of high quality, factory Match loadings available....everywhere
It's cheaper to shoot
It's easy to shoot accurately
There's enough bore volume that the rifle can be a shorter package and still perform to it's potential, i.e., you don't need a 24 to 26" barrel to make it work
When the .308 is used within what it was designed to do, it performs very well. It was never intended to be a wonder magnum or to shoot slippery little bullets at extreme distance without needing to use a lot of elevation in the optic (and I'm sure NATO didn't care about this either).
It is what it is and it does what it does.
Re: Why the 308?
It's common sense but I still feel compelled to mention the fact that the most critical aspect of your shot in terms of safety is your backstop. The higher the caliber you choose the more you limit where you can shoot; However I do realize that for some with access to remote shooting ranges this is not as big an issue. For someone like me who resides in the city, being fickle about what Caliber we use is not a luxury we are afforded; especially if we want to shoot with any sense of regularity. I would also imagine that similar reasons were used when Law Enforcement adopted the .308 for police snipers.
It's common sense but I still feel compelled to mention the fact that the most critical aspect of your shot in terms of safety is your backstop. The higher the caliber you choose the more you limit where you can shoot; However I do realize that for some with access to remote shooting ranges this is not as big an issue. For someone like me who resides in the city, being fickle about what Caliber we use is not a luxury we are afforded; especially if we want to shoot with any sense of regularity. I would also imagine that similar reasons were used when Law Enforcement adopted the .308 for police snipers.
Re: Why the 308?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DMann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Logistics. </div></div>
This speaks volumes.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DMann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Logistics. </div></div>
This speaks volumes.
Re: Why the 308?
It's a NATO round. It could have been a 7mm or 6.5, and might have been had Major General Hatcher had his way, but it was the .30 Cal version of that case that was adopted. And it hits harder than the others do.
It's a NATO round. It could have been a 7mm or 6.5, and might have been had Major General Hatcher had his way, but it was the .30 Cal version of that case that was adopted. And it hits harder than the others do.
Re: Why the 308?
The 308 is very easy to reload for and it is my favorite rifle. When all else fails you can count on a 308 to be on.
The 308 is very easy to reload for and it is my favorite rifle. When all else fails you can count on a 308 to be on.
Re: Why the 308?
Accuracy, barrel life, brass life, quality components available, great rifles available. Versatility , supressable, super sonic, sub sonic it has everything I need. I can shoot out a touch past 1000M on the range, or load SGKs for a hunting load and shoot deer, goats, and caribou with excellent results.
My personal love of the 308 comes from years of being paid to shoot it, and the lifetime supply of LC LR brass doesn't hurt either. I know it well, and am very confident shooting it.
Bang for the buck it can't be beat, and the ballistics are definitely respectable unless you really need to reach out there.
Accuracy, barrel life, brass life, quality components available, great rifles available. Versatility , supressable, super sonic, sub sonic it has everything I need. I can shoot out a touch past 1000M on the range, or load SGKs for a hunting load and shoot deer, goats, and caribou with excellent results.
My personal love of the 308 comes from years of being paid to shoot it, and the lifetime supply of LC LR brass doesn't hurt either. I know it well, and am very confident shooting it.
Bang for the buck it can't be beat, and the ballistics are definitely respectable unless you really need to reach out there.
Re: Why the 308?
There is a wide range of weight and types for 30 caliber bullets. Military surplus ammo. Longer barrel life than 6.5 calibers and 7mm mags. Manageable recoil without muzzle break. Easy to load and shoot accurately. Plenty of info. Multiple choices in match grade ammo. Extensive caliber specific accessories such as suppressors, mag pouches, etc. Lots of choices for brass and other reloading components. Etc, etc, etc.
There is a wide range of weight and types for 30 caliber bullets. Military surplus ammo. Longer barrel life than 6.5 calibers and 7mm mags. Manageable recoil without muzzle break. Easy to load and shoot accurately. Plenty of info. Multiple choices in match grade ammo. Extensive caliber specific accessories such as suppressors, mag pouches, etc. Lots of choices for brass and other reloading components. Etc, etc, etc.
Re: Why the 308?
I do very well understand why military units chose the 7,62 today as its the only caliber in that class where mil spec ammo is avaible, and there you can get AP, Tracers,frags etc.
I do also very well understand civlians who chose .308 today as the price of ammo and the avaibility of ammo and componants are superior to anything else.
That said, I would never chose 308, as the long range performance is very poor compared to what is possible, and also the fact that where I live is the avilibilty of 6,5 cheaper and easyer.
For LR shooting it is far easyer to hit with a better round like 6mm CX, 260 or 6,5x55, so why use anything less good for more money?
When it comes to the adoption of the 7,62 Round in the fifties I don't understand why 7,62 was chosen.(well i do, American .30 caliber pride) For the infantry use it was designed for it is a pretty poor cartridge.
The combination of fairly poor LR range performance and comparable high recoil makes it far than perfect.
For the infantry use the cartridge should work in infantry rifles, machineguns, sniper rifles, and for all this work the lighter calibers are superior.
Most likely something like 6,5-7mm would be much better.
For a machinegunner the extra recoil from a 7,62 vs 6,5 is nothing that is gaining his ability to hit, and the trajectory is nothing that helps the infantry soldier or the sniper.
Sweden adopted the 7,62 in 1965 with the HK G3 rifle.
But we did already have Browning machineguns,Mag 58, (M240) Browning BAR, various rifles i 6,5.
So in our case we almost got back to the ballisticts of our 8mm cartridge of 1889 when we left the 6,5.
(We did had both G3 and FAL for trials in 6,5x55)
A nice comparision is when shooting a magazine from a Browning BAR in 6,5x55 at 100 meters.
A good shooter will have them within 4-5" group in fully automatic fire. Try to do the same thing with a M60 or a MAG 58 in 7,62........
So yes I do understand why you chose the 308, that is not a problem, but i dont understand the fasination for the round.
( I do have a number of 7,62 guns myself, so I am not out of experience with it...)
Håkan
I do very well understand why military units chose the 7,62 today as its the only caliber in that class where mil spec ammo is avaible, and there you can get AP, Tracers,frags etc.
I do also very well understand civlians who chose .308 today as the price of ammo and the avaibility of ammo and componants are superior to anything else.
That said, I would never chose 308, as the long range performance is very poor compared to what is possible, and also the fact that where I live is the avilibilty of 6,5 cheaper and easyer.
For LR shooting it is far easyer to hit with a better round like 6mm CX, 260 or 6,5x55, so why use anything less good for more money?
When it comes to the adoption of the 7,62 Round in the fifties I don't understand why 7,62 was chosen.(well i do, American .30 caliber pride) For the infantry use it was designed for it is a pretty poor cartridge.
The combination of fairly poor LR range performance and comparable high recoil makes it far than perfect.
For the infantry use the cartridge should work in infantry rifles, machineguns, sniper rifles, and for all this work the lighter calibers are superior.
Most likely something like 6,5-7mm would be much better.
For a machinegunner the extra recoil from a 7,62 vs 6,5 is nothing that is gaining his ability to hit, and the trajectory is nothing that helps the infantry soldier or the sniper.
Sweden adopted the 7,62 in 1965 with the HK G3 rifle.
But we did already have Browning machineguns,Mag 58, (M240) Browning BAR, various rifles i 6,5.
So in our case we almost got back to the ballisticts of our 8mm cartridge of 1889 when we left the 6,5.
(We did had both G3 and FAL for trials in 6,5x55)
A nice comparision is when shooting a magazine from a Browning BAR in 6,5x55 at 100 meters.
A good shooter will have them within 4-5" group in fully automatic fire. Try to do the same thing with a M60 or a MAG 58 in 7,62........
So yes I do understand why you chose the 308, that is not a problem, but i dont understand the fasination for the round.
( I do have a number of 7,62 guns myself, so I am not out of experience with it...)
Håkan
Re: Why the 308?
Easy to find a great shooter at your local dealer; easy to find match ammo; easy on the shoulder; easy on barrel life; easy to find reloading data; easy to reload; easy to find bullets/powders/brass.
Easy to find a great shooter at your local dealer; easy to find match ammo; easy on the shoulder; easy on barrel life; easy to find reloading data; easy to reload; easy to find bullets/powders/brass.
Re: Why the 308?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And it hits harder than the others do.</div></div>
I think this point gets lost the most to those who primarily punch paper and ring steel. 30 caliber bullets tend to have pretty devastating terminal ballistics.
6.5mm has excellent BC in general, and is an efficient flier, but you give up quite a bit of weight. 7mm is a nice in between.
Combine the fact that 1,000 is a nice, round, arbitrary number with the fact that the 308 WIN is the "chosen" round, and I think we will always be wondering about the adequacy of the cartridge. A cartridge, may I add, that shoots remarkably accurately and with sufficient energy to knock down most anything within 800 yards.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And it hits harder than the others do.</div></div>
I think this point gets lost the most to those who primarily punch paper and ring steel. 30 caliber bullets tend to have pretty devastating terminal ballistics.
6.5mm has excellent BC in general, and is an efficient flier, but you give up quite a bit of weight. 7mm is a nice in between.
Combine the fact that 1,000 is a nice, round, arbitrary number with the fact that the 308 WIN is the "chosen" round, and I think we will always be wondering about the adequacy of the cartridge. A cartridge, may I add, that shoots remarkably accurately and with sufficient energy to knock down most anything within 800 yards.
Re: Why the 308?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And it hits harder than the others do.</div></div>
I think this point gets lost the most to those who primarily punch paper and ring steel. 30 caliber bullets tend to have pretty devastating terminal ballistics.
6.5mm has excellent BC in general, and is an efficient flier, but you give up quite a bit of weight. 7mm is a nice in between.
Combine the fact that 1,000 is a nice, round, arbitrary number with the fact that the 308 WIN is the "chosen" round, and I think we will always be wondering about the adequacy of the cartridge. A cartridge, may I add, that shoots remarkably accurately and with sufficient energy to knock down most anything within 800 yards.</div></div>
Ha, I had an interesting wind up of a 260 lover on another post when I tried to explain the merits of a 200gr bullet and the fact that you can't get one down a 6.5 barrel.
Apparently this is an irrelevant point and a 260 always hits harder than a 308.
He was a religious devotee who decreed that I was an ignorant blasphemer. So I had some fun for a while but got bored with the bullshit eventually
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And it hits harder than the others do.</div></div>
I think this point gets lost the most to those who primarily punch paper and ring steel. 30 caliber bullets tend to have pretty devastating terminal ballistics.
6.5mm has excellent BC in general, and is an efficient flier, but you give up quite a bit of weight. 7mm is a nice in between.
Combine the fact that 1,000 is a nice, round, arbitrary number with the fact that the 308 WIN is the "chosen" round, and I think we will always be wondering about the adequacy of the cartridge. A cartridge, may I add, that shoots remarkably accurately and with sufficient energy to knock down most anything within 800 yards.</div></div>
Ha, I had an interesting wind up of a 260 lover on another post when I tried to explain the merits of a 200gr bullet and the fact that you can't get one down a 6.5 barrel.
Apparently this is an irrelevant point and a 260 always hits harder than a 308.
He was a religious devotee who decreed that I was an ignorant blasphemer. So I had some fun for a while but got bored with the bullshit eventually
Re: Why the 308?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: k9222</div><div class="ubbcode-body">NATO round, tons of knowledge in reference to load development, cheap compared to some stuff (6.5x47, 300 wsm, win mag) stuff like that.
It does not do one thing extremely well but does many things good. </div></div>
+100
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: k9222</div><div class="ubbcode-body">NATO round, tons of knowledge in reference to load development, cheap compared to some stuff (6.5x47, 300 wsm, win mag) stuff like that.
It does not do one thing extremely well but does many things good. </div></div>
+100
Re: Why the 308?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And it hits harder than the others do.</div></div>
6.5mm has excellent BC in general, and is an efficient flier, but you give up quite a bit of weight. 7mm is a nice in between.
</div></div>
6.5 swedish round was used, not sure how well it did in the sniper variant but thinking about getting one.
.308 is military issue, if they went back to 30-06 the 30-06 would become the new "Fascination" because of the commonality of it.
30-06 is better than a 308, just not as common.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And it hits harder than the others do.</div></div>
6.5mm has excellent BC in general, and is an efficient flier, but you give up quite a bit of weight. 7mm is a nice in between.
</div></div>
6.5 swedish round was used, not sure how well it did in the sniper variant but thinking about getting one.
.308 is military issue, if they went back to 30-06 the 30-06 would become the new "Fascination" because of the commonality of it.
30-06 is better than a 308, just not as common.
Re: Why the 308?
If I could have only one rifle it would be a .308. It is light on recoil, good to 1K for targets and can kill anything in North America with the right bullet inside 400 yards. I own about 6 308s and will be getting another shortly. Even when I have other mre powerful choices for hunting my Kimber 84 in 308 is my go to gun, took down an Elk at 342yds I shot with 165 grain Federal Trophy Bonded Tactical DRT.
If you shoot past 1K go with something else, otherwise go .308.
Be safe all. Z
If I could have only one rifle it would be a .308. It is light on recoil, good to 1K for targets and can kill anything in North America with the right bullet inside 400 yards. I own about 6 308s and will be getting another shortly. Even when I have other mre powerful choices for hunting my Kimber 84 in 308 is my go to gun, took down an Elk at 342yds I shot with 165 grain Federal Trophy Bonded Tactical DRT.
If you shoot past 1K go with something else, otherwise go .308.
Be safe all. Z
Re: Why the 308?
The .308 is still a great squad weapon caliber round. I know the trend is smaller / lighter but the .30 has very good penetration and bullet weight retention. If you want to stop vehicles a .30 caliber anything does better than a .223 in a SAW or M4.
In a precision rifle it also has proven its accuracy and down range performance. A 7mm / 08 would be the perfect bullet and case marriage IMHO. A very wide selection of bullets and the 7MM has a high BC. The larger the barrel diameter the easier it is on the throat area for erosion. There are better pure long range calibers but the .30 is still a work horse and will get the job done.
The .308 is still a great squad weapon caliber round. I know the trend is smaller / lighter but the .30 has very good penetration and bullet weight retention. If you want to stop vehicles a .30 caliber anything does better than a .223 in a SAW or M4.
In a precision rifle it also has proven its accuracy and down range performance. A 7mm / 08 would be the perfect bullet and case marriage IMHO. A very wide selection of bullets and the 7MM has a high BC. The larger the barrel diameter the easier it is on the throat area for erosion. There are better pure long range calibers but the .30 is still a work horse and will get the job done.
Re: Why the 308?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And it hits harder than the others do.</div></div>
6.5mm has excellent BC in general, and is an efficient flier, but you give up quite a bit of weight. 7mm is a nice in between.
</div></div>
6.5 swedish round was used, not sure how well it did in the sniper variant but thinking about getting one.
.308 is military issue, if they went back to 30-06 the 30-06 would become the new "Fascination" because of the commonality of it.
30-06 is better than a 308, just not as common. </div></div>
You might enjoy this article.
The long and the short of it is that at 600 yards and closer, the 308 is more accurate. At 1,000 yards, the velocity of the 30-06 kicks in and it beats the 308. Big surprise there as, yes, I know, people shoot the 308 at 1,000 yards, but that is not really where it shines.
As with every caliber argument, there are always tradeoffs in terms of lethality, ability to buck wind, accuracy, availability, etc., etc.
When you get down to practicalities, the 308 fits perfectly into a short action, is relatively efficient in delivering power per amount of powder burned, a more critical criterion for the military that might purchase millions of rounds, than the reloader. It has a lot of things going for it.
It is too bad that the 30-06 is not allowed in F/TR. If it were allowed, it would no doubt dominate. And if the 300 WIN were allowed, it would no doubt dominate the 30-06.
I will repeat myself: in the niche of delivering superb accuracy out to 800 yards, the 308 is hard to beat. At 800 yards and beyond, there are better choices. If you have the 338 LM, is there room in between the 308 and the 338 LM for another cartridge? If so, it seems like the 300 WIN MAG is currently the answer.
To the 6.5mm argument, I should add:
They hunt moose with the 6.5mm in Sweden, so certainly, you can knock down something big with a 6.5mm... I think the fact that they use the 6.5X55 gives it a little extra oomph (than the 260 Rem).
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And it hits harder than the others do.</div></div>
6.5mm has excellent BC in general, and is an efficient flier, but you give up quite a bit of weight. 7mm is a nice in between.
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6.5 swedish round was used, not sure how well it did in the sniper variant but thinking about getting one.
.308 is military issue, if they went back to 30-06 the 30-06 would become the new "Fascination" because of the commonality of it.
30-06 is better than a 308, just not as common. </div></div>
You might enjoy this article.
The long and the short of it is that at 600 yards and closer, the 308 is more accurate. At 1,000 yards, the velocity of the 30-06 kicks in and it beats the 308. Big surprise there as, yes, I know, people shoot the 308 at 1,000 yards, but that is not really where it shines.
As with every caliber argument, there are always tradeoffs in terms of lethality, ability to buck wind, accuracy, availability, etc., etc.
When you get down to practicalities, the 308 fits perfectly into a short action, is relatively efficient in delivering power per amount of powder burned, a more critical criterion for the military that might purchase millions of rounds, than the reloader. It has a lot of things going for it.
It is too bad that the 30-06 is not allowed in F/TR. If it were allowed, it would no doubt dominate. And if the 300 WIN were allowed, it would no doubt dominate the 30-06.
I will repeat myself: in the niche of delivering superb accuracy out to 800 yards, the 308 is hard to beat. At 800 yards and beyond, there are better choices. If you have the 338 LM, is there room in between the 308 and the 338 LM for another cartridge? If so, it seems like the 300 WIN MAG is currently the answer.
To the 6.5mm argument, I should add:
They hunt moose with the 6.5mm in Sweden, so certainly, you can knock down something big with a 6.5mm... I think the fact that they use the 6.5X55 gives it a little extra oomph (than the 260 Rem).
Re: Why the 308?
The 308 is just a great round. Inherently accurate, widely available and proven. With the new powders coming out, Hornady Superformance, the potential for the venerable old 308 is still increasing.
The 308 is just a great round. Inherently accurate, widely available and proven. With the new powders coming out, Hornady Superformance, the potential for the venerable old 308 is still increasing.
Re: Why the 308?
I chose it so I could buy good match grade factory ammo at a decent price. Custom 7mm08 and 7mmSTW ammo was digging kinda deep into my pocket and I wanted to shoot a lot more. I will still shoot and hunt with my other rifles but when it comes to most of my practice and some hunting I will use 308. Maybe one of these years the savings will catch up to the $ I have put into my 308's haha...
I chose it so I could buy good match grade factory ammo at a decent price. Custom 7mm08 and 7mmSTW ammo was digging kinda deep into my pocket and I wanted to shoot a lot more. I will still shoot and hunt with my other rifles but when it comes to most of my practice and some hunting I will use 308. Maybe one of these years the savings will catch up to the $ I have put into my 308's haha...
Re: Why the 308?
Ugh! People always say that there are better rounds that go farther or pack more energy or look sexier in thigh highs, etc. The point is that the 308 cartridge is very available and pretty darn good at what it does. The argument is ALWAYS a dollar/value trade off. If there was no such thing as money the everyone would naturally want to shoot the best possible cartridge. But there is money, and so we try to shoot the most exciting or highest value product for the least amount of money. Even Spuhr conceded that the 6.5 ammo is "cheaper" where he lives - after saying that he doesn't like 308. Why did he feel the need to say that? Because at the end of the day, you shoot what you can afford. If you can afford to shoot something better - you do! Sometimes you can afford to shoot something better, but you cant afford to shoot it a lot. So, again you go to the economical choice - 308...or 22lr
Ugh! People always say that there are better rounds that go farther or pack more energy or look sexier in thigh highs, etc. The point is that the 308 cartridge is very available and pretty darn good at what it does. The argument is ALWAYS a dollar/value trade off. If there was no such thing as money the everyone would naturally want to shoot the best possible cartridge. But there is money, and so we try to shoot the most exciting or highest value product for the least amount of money. Even Spuhr conceded that the 6.5 ammo is "cheaper" where he lives - after saying that he doesn't like 308. Why did he feel the need to say that? Because at the end of the day, you shoot what you can afford. If you can afford to shoot something better - you do! Sometimes you can afford to shoot something better, but you cant afford to shoot it a lot. So, again you go to the economical choice - 308...or 22lr
Re: Why the 308?
The simple fact remains that the VAST majority of shooters will never exceed the limits of this round. We can talk all day long (and do) about higher velocities and better BCs, but that doesn't matter to someone punching paper out to 600+ yards or hunting deer just beyond arm's reach in the woods. If you're doing something that requires more performance, great; just recognize that you are part of an exceedingly small minority of shooters.
The simple fact remains that the VAST majority of shooters will never exceed the limits of this round. We can talk all day long (and do) about higher velocities and better BCs, but that doesn't matter to someone punching paper out to 600+ yards or hunting deer just beyond arm's reach in the woods. If you're doing something that requires more performance, great; just recognize that you are part of an exceedingly small minority of shooters.
Re: Why the 308?
There are some really good reasons for the .308. As for the adoption of the 7.62x51 for NATO over it's Europian cousins back in the fifties? I'll give you my take on it! Edited: considering the way the German army moved through Europe at will, the allies understood that more than likely the red Army could too. America would be the better armoror in that case. I'll leave my smartass quips off
There are some really good reasons for the .308. As for the adoption of the 7.62x51 for NATO over it's Europian cousins back in the fifties? I'll give you my take on it! Edited: considering the way the German army moved through Europe at will, the allies understood that more than likely the red Army could too. America would be the better armoror in that case. I'll leave my smartass quips off
