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Rifle Scopes Why the hate for Leupold?

C

ctay20

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 16, 2010
16
0
46
#1
New to the board - I have two Mark 4's and like them. Definitely the best scopes I've used. I know that there are better ones out there but it seems that there is a fair amount of disdain for Leupold. Just wanted to see why. I've always thought they were very good on the price to performance metric. What am I missing?

Thanks!
Chris
 
#2
Re: Why the hate for Leupold?

I own one and its a pretty good scope. Leupold has begun to outsource their work overseas and many of their scopes are made in China, and other Asian countries. Thus, their quality has drastically declined over the years.

There are a couple other American Made scopes that are now on the market, that are just as good if not better, for around the same price.....NightForce comes to mind....
 
#4
Re: Why the hate for Leupold?

I dont know I just picked up a new Mk4 and its appearing to be the same quality as my Ultras and older BR-Ds, pre Mk4 LRT etc.

Only other high end scopes Ive used has been a Nightforce back when you could buy them for 900 bucks and they were made in Australia and imported by Lightforce.

Both brands served me well on my .22-284 and 6-284. Leupolds CS has been outstanding to me over the years as well.
 
#6
Re: Why the hate for Leupold?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dhutch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I own one and its a pretty good scope. Leupold has begun to outsource their work overseas and many of their scopes are made in China, and other Asian countries. Thus, their quality has drastically declined over the years.

There are a couple other American Made scopes that are now on the market, that are just as good if not better, for around the same price.....NightForce comes to mind.... </div></div>

I didn't know this... I thought they were American Made...
 
#8
Re: Why the hate for Leupold?

Most NF are assembled in Idaho from Japanese parts. There may be a percentage domestically produced, but the majority of the components are Japanese. Nightforce itself is a subsidiary of an Australian company. Oh teh noes! Foreigners! The international division of labor is corrupting our young!!!!!

Leupold gets a bad rap because they were seen as the default tactical scope company for years. So tons of people bought the scopes. Everything breaks, but when something is more common, it appears to be breaking more often. Look at Glocks for instance. We as consumers will probably never know the real failure rates, only the anecdotal evidence of others.

If the scope does what you want for the price you are willing to pay, who gives a fuck? Seriously?

I bought a NF because I could get it in mil - mil. You can't really do that with Leupold (0.5 cm doesn't count). So to me, they couldn't do what I wanted for any price. But I don't hate them.
 
#9
Re: Why the hate for Leupold?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dhutch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I own one and its a pretty good scope. Leupold has begun to outsource their work overseas and many of their scopes are made in China, and other Asian countries. Thus, their quality has drastically declined over the years.

There are a couple other American Made scopes that are now on the market, that are just as good if not better, for around the same price.....NightForce comes to mind.... </div></div>

Mk4s are US made and built sans glass.
 
#10
Re: Why the hate for Leupold?

Because it's cool to bash them it seems. All of our other $2k optics never break, 'onest indjun!

Leupold is a mass produced scope, you can't really compare that to scopes twice the price and custom made to order. I actually prefer the Leupy optics to the NF any day, they just don't make mil/mil yet that is a hot thing with the tactical crowd.
 
#11
Re: Why the hate for Leupold?

Thanks for the clarification, I just got my NF 3.5-15 in the mail yesterday and noticed it said "Made in Japan". I could really care less if it was made on Mt.Everest by a Yeti. I know that NF is going to be a great scope.
 
#12
Re: Why the hate for Leupold?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmg308</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dhutch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I own one and its a pretty good scope. Leupold has begun to outsource their work overseas and many of their scopes are made in China, and other Asian countries. Thus, their quality has drastically declined over the years.

There are a couple other American Made scopes that are now on the market, that are just as good if not better, for around the same price.....NightForce comes to mind.... </div></div>

Mk4s are US made and built sans glass. </div></div>

I'm aware not ALL of their scopes are not made overseas but a lot that used to be made here in the states are no longer made here.
 
#13
Re: Why the hate for Leupold?

Why the hate for Leupold??

I don't know about everybody else but for me I cannot say I hate Leupold, but I am very disappointed in them.

I don't know how long you have been shooting, but I have been buying my own scopes and rifles since 1972.

In the early 1980's Leupold introduced the Ultra line, for the US Military. These were the first tactical scopes, as we know them today. By around 1990-1, the line that developed into the Mark IV's, was set.

So basically for the last 20 years, there has been zero improvements to that scope line. Yes, we got M2 turrets, and better glass, illumination, and the TMR reticle, from Leupold in the interim.

But no real design changes. In the meantime companies, like S&B, USO, Premier, IOR, Vortex, SWFA, Nightforce, aomong others, have released entire lines of scopes, featuring MIL/MIL and/or MOA/MOA adjustments, coupled with FFP technology.

To make it worse, Leupold in 2002-03 released an entire line of 30mm scopes, and 1cm @ 100 M adjustments (BTW which is the same a 0.1 MILS @ 100 Yds). This line was called the European-30 Line.

So on one hand, Leupold decided to provide a metric cam, to appeal to European market, and refused to use those same cams and technology, in their Tactical line of scopes; all the while losing market share to other companies.

All the while, there prices have gone up, and the product they were delivering, has gone down. Perhaps the Tactical market was not big enough for them to play in, and support?

Ok, if they thought the tactical market was too small to support, then why as shooters should we support them? It is hard to reconcile and support corporate stupidity that profound.

Now it is 2010, and Leupold is releasing new Mk4 scopes with their true metric M5 turrets, and FFP. Good for them.

Except for this shooter it is 5-10 years too late. I moved on to companies that support; with research, new products and innovation, of what I want to shoot. And Leupold is not among them.

Bob
 
#14
Re: Why the hate for Leupold?

well, for one I'm not sure why you'd spend $ on a leupy when you can get zeiss for the same price. but functionally speaking leupold makes fine scopes and I've always been happy with the ones I've owned.

as to the current bashing it's more to do with the herd effect than anything, fitting in, agreeing to be agreeable, etc.
 
#16
Re: Why the hate for Leupold?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ctay20</div><div class="ubbcode-body">New to the board - I have two Mark 4's and like them. Definitely the best scopes I've used. I know that there are better ones out there but it seems that there is a fair amount of disdain for Leupold. Just wanted to see why. I've always thought they were very good on the price to performance metric. What am I missing?

Thanks!
Chris </div></div>
because i refuse to pay for diamonds, and receive cubic zirconia...

bench
 
#18
Re: Why the hate for Leupold?


I like them and have never had a problem with them. But my life is not dependent on my equipment.

I will admit now that when I'm looking at buying a used one, I look for or ask to see if it has the "Made in USA" on the box or scope.
 
#20
Re: Why the hate for Leupold?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 396chevy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Because you suck and we hate you. </div></div>

No, that's HK.
smile.gif
 
#21
Re: Why the hate for Leupold?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: weavert</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 396chevy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Because you suck and we hate you. </div></div>

No, that's HK.
smile.gif
</div></div>

I'm glad someone got that. Ad yet ironically I own 3 H&K Handguns.
 
#22
Re: Why the hate for Leupold?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 257heaven</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I like them and have never had a problem with them. But my life is not dependent on my equipment.

I will admit now that when I'm looking at buying a used one, I look for or ask to see if it has the "Made in USA" on the box or scope.

</div></div>

Oddly enough Zeiss are made in the USA while Leupold are not. I was always under the impression that Zeiss was a german company... but yes, keep the $ in the USA whenever possible is the best option.
 
#23
Re: Why the hate for Leupold?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300snipe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 257heaven</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I like them and have never had a problem with them. But my life is not dependent on my equipment.

I will admit now that when I'm looking at buying a used one, I look for or ask to see if it has the "Made in USA" on the box or scope.

</div></div>

<span style="color: #FF0000">Oddly enough Zeiss are made in the USA while Leupold are not.</span> I was always under the impression that Zeiss was a german company... but yes, keep the $ in the USA whenever possible is the best option. </div></div>

Those Chinamen sure have gotten good at the English dialect and Western inflection.

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/HvLcYQiP4_s"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/HvLcYQiP4_s" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/72XhFKTyLPI"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/72XhFKTyLPI" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
 
#24
Re: Why the hate for Leupold?

Great "tour of the factory"! My Leupold scopes ROCK! Customer service has always been exceptional in my experience, (the only time I've needed it was for changing turrets and getting the tripod adaptor for a Gold Ring Spotting scope that didn't have one when I bought it used - they sent me two adaptors, arrived in two days, at no charge!). I have no qualms about running a Mk4 on my duty gun. I also own USO, NF, and older IOR that are all great scopes as well. No Leupold bashing for me! (for what it's worth)
 
#25
Re: Why the hate for Leupold?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 858</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300snipe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 257heaven</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I like them and have never had a problem with them. But my life is not dependent on my equipment.

I will admit now that when I'm looking at buying a used one, I look for or ask to see if it has the "Made in USA" on the box or scope.

</div></div>

<span style="color: #FF0000">Oddly enough Zeiss are made in the USA while Leupold are not.</span> I was always under the impression that Zeiss was a german company... but yes, keep the $ in the USA whenever possible is the best option. </div></div>

Those Chinamen sure have gotten good at the English dialect and Western inflection.

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/HvLcYQiP4_s"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/HvLcYQiP4_s" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/72XhFKTyLPI"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/72XhFKTyLPI" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
</div></div>

Are Chinamen bad?
 
#26
Re: Why the hate for Leupold?

Its rather simple as to why theres alot of Leupold bashing

I will try and summarise

1) Globalisation. It cannot be beaten. Either deal with it, or shut down. With globalisation comes a greater level of products released from asia.

2) The Japs are better known for producing higher quality products than Chinese, in most cases. Its just fact. The Japs have tighter quality control, efficiency systems and their business' run very lean. In management terms, they are moving forward. Those who do not move forward, are sitting still, and in todays day in age this leads to PROBLEMS.

3) Nightforce get parts from Japan. Leupold from China.

4) There are knockoff Leupold Mark IV's coming out from China.

5) The Mk4 Leupold is pretty much their flagship model. Hide members place great pride in their optics... Come on fellas, this is one thing we try not to skimp out on right? So its common to see Hide members going for top tier products right? So what happens what Leupolds flagship model gets compared to a competitors, for example Nightforce NXS. We compare the price vs what we get... End of the day alot of people prefer the NXS over the mk4 for many varied reasons.

6) Regardless of Leupolds excellent customer service/repairs/warranty, customers want to see higher and tighter quality control tollerances and this means opening a box to find a perfect product as described... This is not often the case, but its how often we hear this happen that scares us... Ive heard A LOT of people mention how they find Leupold Glass foggy, or something wasnt clicking right, or the reticle was canted.

In general i would say for the high end tactical scope market, the competitors of Leupold have moved far forward whilst Leupold have remained still. There are now products out there that are competitively priced but offer MORE than what the Leupold Mk4 does.

I think its important to realise that the members on the Hide seek the best they can get to constantly better themselves as shooters, and if a scope manufacturer cant live up to those requirements they will be left behind in favor of someone else offering something better.
 
#28
Re: Why the hate for Leupold?

I was a big lupy fan till today. Purchased a mark4 2 years ago had pretty decent luck with it until about 3 weeks ago. Keep in mind I've owned quite a few over the years and thought there was nothing else!! But anyway my mark 4 got to where it would not hold point of impact. Checked the rings and one piece rail everything was fine there. Windage knob had also began to get very mushy. Called leupold they said they had run into that before and to send it in. So I promptly overnighted it to them, hell the scope damn near beat me home!!! Looked at the paper work claimed they found nothing wrong!!! Ok so the windage knob was just as mushy as before, I was a little pissed but oh well I will go shoot it. Mounted it point of impact still f***ing changes. Have a vortex viper on 243 ackley used the shit out of it still shoots like a house a fire. So bye bye lupy, will never ever shoot another one!!! Thats why there is lupy hate going on. Probably still build fine hunting rfles but they better get their shit together for tactical. It would be different if they only cost 500 dollars then you could expect sone problems. One thing leupold does know how to do overcharge and under deliver!!!!
 
#30
Re: Why the hate for Leupold?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308155</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was a big lupy fan till today. Purchased a mark4 2 years ago had pretty decent luck with it until about 3 weeks ago. Keep in mind I've owned quite a few over the years and thought there was nothing else!! But anyway my mark 4 got to where it would not hold point of impact. Checked the rings and one piece rail everything was fine there. Windage knob had also began to get very mushy. Called leupold they said they had run into that before and to send it in. So I promptly overnighted it to them, hell the scope damn near beat me home!!! Looked at the paper work claimed they found nothing wrong!!! Ok so the windage knob was just as mushy as before, I was a little pissed but oh well I will go shoot it. Mounted it point of impact still f***ing changes. Have a vortex viper on 243 ackley used the shit out of it still shoots like a house a fire. So bye bye lupy, will never ever shoot another one!!! Thats why there is lupy hate going on. Probably still build fine hunting rfles but they better get their shit together for tactical. It would be different if they only cost 500 dollars then you could expect sone problems. One thing leupold does know how to do overcharge and under deliver!!!! </div></div>


So one potential slip up on their part after years of good luck with many different scopes and throw them to the wolves???
 
#31
Re: Why the hate for Leupold?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmg308</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308155</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was a big lupy fan till today. Purchased a mark4 2 years ago had pretty decent luck with it until about 3 weeks ago. Keep in mind I've owned quite a few over the years and thought there was nothing else!! But anyway my mark 4 got to where it would not hold point of impact. Checked the rings and one piece rail everything was fine there. Windage knob had also began to get very mushy. Called leupold they said they had run into that before and to send it in. So I promptly overnighted it to them, hell the scope damn near beat me home!!! Looked at the paper work claimed they found nothing wrong!!! Ok so the windage knob was just as mushy as before, I was a little pissed but oh well I will go shoot it. Mounted it point of impact still f***ing changes. Have a vortex viper on 243 ackley used the shit out of it still shoots like a house a fire. So bye bye lupy, will never ever shoot another one!!! Thats why there is lupy hate going on. Probably still build fine hunting rfles but they better get their shit together for tactical. It would be different if they only cost 500 dollars then you could expect sone problems. One thing leupold does know how to do overcharge and under deliver!!!! </div></div>


So one potential slip up on their part after years of good luck with many different scopes and throw them to the wolves??? </div></div>

I've never had an issue with the several leupold scopes I've had. YMMV.

that aside, china this japan that... who care where's it's really made as long as IT WORKS. You're paying for quality so that should be the bottom line. Unless someone is making every single piece in house locally then chances are there's some globalization going on. Buying an american car? Globaization. Buying a computer from an american company, globalization. You cannot get away from it so there's no use trying to.
 
#32
Re: Why the hate for Leupold?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why the hate for Leupold??

I don't know about everybody else but for me I cannot say I hate Leupold, but I am very disappointed in them.

I don't know how long you have been shooting, but I have been buying my own scopes and rifles since 1972.

In the early 1980's Leupold introduced the Ultra line, for the US Military. These were the first tactical scopes, as we know them today. By around 1990-1, the line that developed into the Mark IV's, was set.

So basically for the last 20 years, there has been zero improvements to that scope line. Yes, we got M2 turrets, and better glass, illumination, and the TMR reticle, from Leupold in the interim.

But no real design changes. In the meantime companies, like S&B, USO, Premier, IOR, Vortex, SWFA, Nightforce, aomong others, have released entire lines of scopes, featuring MIL/MIL and/or MOA/MOA adjustments, coupled with FFP technology.

To make it worse, Leupold in 2002-03 released an entire line of 30mm scopes, and 1cm @ 100 M adjustments (BTW which is the same a 0.1 MILS @ 100 Yds). This line was called the European-30 Line.

So on one hand, Leupold decided to provide a metric cam, to appeal to European market, and refused to use those same cams and technology, in their Tactical line of scopes; all the while losing market share to other companies.

All the while, there prices have gone up, and the product they were delivering, has gone down. Perhaps the Tactical market was not big enough for them to play in, and support?

Ok, if they thought the tactical market was too small to support, then why as shooters should we support them? It is hard to reconcile and support corporate stupidity that profound.

Now it is 2010, and Leupold is releasing new Mk4 scopes with their true metric M5 turrets, and FFP. Good for them.

Except for this shooter it is 5-10 years too late. I moved on to companies that support; with research, new products and innovation, of what I want to shoot. And Leupold is not among them.

Bob
</div></div>


Well said
 
#33
Re: Why the hate for Leupold?

I second that!!! And DMG308 not like we paying pennies here and I was vague to them about my problems, I explained in length to them and they said they had run into that before,and they tell me to send it in. Then return it with no problems found. The hell with that you need to have confidence that your scope is going to hold zero or you may as well be using a plain old hunting scope. And once again they damn sure know how to charge!!!!!
 
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