Pretty sure 7fingers is Randy Wise from the NRA ELR video linked a page ago...
Why the hatred for savage?
- Thread starter Newlongrange
- Start date
I can honestly say i like savage. I do not love them. They are great for what they are. That being said, i'm sure someone has made one hell of a rifle out of one. Im sure the only "savage" on the entire rifle at that point is the stripped receiver. Hell, im quickly on my way to exactly that with my current build. So let's see. Build on a 100% custom action. Or build off a savage action. Savage will save you some money. In the end though, i can see where serious competition guys, military/law enforcement, and even dangerous game hunters, spend the $400-$1000 difference in a total build, for the custom action. So i can see why they are not so common in the more serious shooting world. If i had an offer for every penny i've spent so far in my build. Knowing what ive learned along the way. It would be sold. I would start over on a custom action as well. I like my rifle as i've learned a lot about troubleshooting, and home gunsmithing. Its plenty accurate to learn off of, but i'm quickly seeing the down side of savage.
LISTEN UP AFTERMARKET COMPANIES.
Please fallow jards lead. how they made a trigger that replaces 100% of the savage trigger system, and make a complete bolt that does the same. Then i could see savage joining the race. well, the stripped action that is.
LISTEN UP AFTERMARKET COMPANIES.
Please fallow jards lead. how they made a trigger that replaces 100% of the savage trigger system, and make a complete bolt that does the same. Then i could see savage joining the race. well, the stripped action that is.
Well then he should have no problem taking lowlight up on his offer
The quintessential problem of life: You simply can not know, what you do not know.
Some of us approach this dilemma with caution and the strict understanding that if we make proclamations that do not later match the facts, that our reputations will suffer. Others are much more cavalier, sharing their opinions whether they have properly proofed those opinions or not. People tend to demand the same level of respect for their opinions, regardless of the disparity of work and experience required to reach them.
It's quite a problem.
Those of us with vast amounts of experience back of our opinions, really struggle dealing with very vocal people that have much less experience. Really struggle, in the way that it sometimes seems there is no language we can use which can possibly bridge the experience gap. We are left with the only real choice of leaving people exactly as they want to be left. A hard choice for anyone... but especially hard for those that have devoted their lives to sharing experience.
Some of us approach this dilemma with caution and the strict understanding that if we make proclamations that do not later match the facts, that our reputations will suffer. Others are much more cavalier, sharing their opinions whether they have properly proofed those opinions or not. People tend to demand the same level of respect for their opinions, regardless of the disparity of work and experience required to reach them.
It's quite a problem.
Those of us with vast amounts of experience back of our opinions, really struggle dealing with very vocal people that have much less experience. Really struggle, in the way that it sometimes seems there is no language we can use which can possibly bridge the experience gap. We are left with the only real choice of leaving people exactly as they want to be left. A hard choice for anyone... but especially hard for those that have devoted their lives to sharing experience.
thanks, now im a bit smarter today. Never in my life seen that word, had to google it.
The joke is, the One Guy...
You get a host of Random guys who work on their own shit, who trick out the same base rifle they always have and they do very good with it
The question is , Out of the box, what do these do out of the box without being wrenched on, without being tricked out... sure you can have a handful that are great, but the majority is not.
They have random anecdotal information and claim it as high level success, it's not, it a random guy who learned to use and adapt the one tool he likes and that is supposed to be a metric for success.
Look at the matches, that is your weather gauge, if you only see One, especially if it's constantly the same ONE, then you should not point that as a successful platform. That is a successful shooter, the platform in this case is irrelevant.
Steyr has some high profile guys shooting their rifles in ELR, would you want a Steyr or AI... if you point to the success of the person, you can claim the Steyr is a great rifle, mainly because Team AI tends to avoid the similar events. But if you put them in the same place at the same time, the AI usually wins.
NF ELR Match was just held, the guns are listed, give us the Successful Savage Count vs the Rest of the Field
You get a host of Random guys who work on their own shit, who trick out the same base rifle they always have and they do very good with it
The question is , Out of the box, what do these do out of the box without being wrenched on, without being tricked out... sure you can have a handful that are great, but the majority is not.
They have random anecdotal information and claim it as high level success, it's not, it a random guy who learned to use and adapt the one tool he likes and that is supposed to be a metric for success.
Look at the matches, that is your weather gauge, if you only see One, especially if it's constantly the same ONE, then you should not point that as a successful platform. That is a successful shooter, the platform in this case is irrelevant.
Steyr has some high profile guys shooting their rifles in ELR, would you want a Steyr or AI... if you point to the success of the person, you can claim the Steyr is a great rifle, mainly because Team AI tends to avoid the similar events. But if you put them in the same place at the same time, the AI usually wins.
NF ELR Match was just held, the guns are listed, give us the Successful Savage Count vs the Rest of the Field
Nightforce ELR Steel Challenge 2021 | PractiScore
practiscore.com
Can't seem to find where rifle data is shown.
You had to awaken the Beast, didn't you.......
@7fingers , I'd happily give you a run for your money with my Tikka.
I just don't believe a Savage is on par with an AI.
@7fingers , I'd happily give you a run for your money with my Tikka.
I just don't believe a Savage is on par with an AI.
Look at the Top 10, easy enough to see who they are and then know what they shoot
There are links to score, and then shooters
There are links to score, and then shooters
The rifle I set the ELR Central World Record with at the 2019 NRA/ELR National Match was a factory Savage in an ARS Chassis. I also managed to finish 3rd in the light class at the match with that rifle. No it’s not a polished up custom and it definitely was not that much fun to shoot as recoil with the factory brake was pretty brutal compared to a terminator brake but it did shoot very well. Yes there are much nicer choices out there but bang for the buck a Savage is hard to beat. I have won a lot of rifle matches with my Savage based handguns and don’t feel that I am at a disadvantage because of the Savage Action.
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It’s called the buyback program, duh.Ya know... this thread has got me thinking.... I've added 3 or so new savages to the heard in the last 5 years, that appears to have been a mistake. I hate making mistakes... Never shot these fuckers, what's scrap worth today?
They are Sullying my safes!
John Armstrong set a record before anyone with a hunting rifle and a super sniper scope and beat many members of Team AB at the Front Sight ELR event before Shot Show. It was factory too
Off a portable bench with his dope written in marker in the side
great job you’re famous for doing something nice for savage - how many people ran out and bought your gun because of it I wonder ?
Off a portable bench with his dope written in marker in the side
great job you’re famous for doing something nice for savage - how many people ran out and bought your gun because of it I wonder ?
Ya know I'm starting to regret buying a impact action and should of instead purchased the finest savage action from my local Walmart and ran that instead
Blow up the pic. You can see a light line indicating the front of the nut, and larger diameter just ahead of the rail for the length of the nut.
Not so sure I see it (Barrel nut) ….but look at the trigger, I think I see the Remington bolt release
That's a remington. The trigger guard shape, recoil lug, trigger. Definitely a remington. Also look at the bolt handle. Swept back.
Sorry for FB link:
Rem 700 in 7mm STW made by Smith's Custom Guns in PA stated by him.
Code:
https://www.facebook.com/AppliedBallisticsLLC/videos/311646813755906/Rem 700 in 7mm STW made by Smith's Custom Guns in PA stated by him.
I think what Frank was implying is that a factory Savage isn't the only rifle that can shoot well off the shelf. And perhaps it's the shooter behind the rifle that matters more than the rifle itself.
That's just crazy talk.
And for the record. Savage rifles are complete pieces of shit. I was a total fanboi of Savage and owned several in my early days of bolt action rifle shooting. I have since learned, and wish I had just started on a Remington (or clone) as a base rifle. I would have saved a lot of money if I had.
They don't feed reliably, eject spent brass hard enough to clear the port, or extract consistently. The bolt jams up in the raceway when ran hard, the trigger adjusts all over the place on its own and then wears out in a few thousand rounds, and scope base screws come loose constantly. I've also seen more than one Savage chamber with burrs so pronounced the brass sticks when the rifle is fired and you have to hammer the bolt open and pray the extractor holds.
I've tried all of the so called "upgrades" from SSS and others to improve bolt lift, ejection, extraction, etc. I've even used retaining compound and red loctite along with new screws to try to keep the scope base from coming loose. I guess if I epoxied the base to the action it might have held.
Sure Savage can be accurate, but so is my factory RR serial # Rem700 308 barreled action in a Grayboe stock and my 100% factory down to the X Mark Pro trigger and wood stock 700CDL 30-06 hunting rifle. I don't have to deal with all the bullshit issues that I went through with Savage. They both feed, eject, extract, and shoot nice groups. And neither of the scope bases have become loose since I installed them.
They don't feed reliably, eject spent brass hard enough to clear the port, or extract consistently. The bolt jams up in the raceway when ran hard, the trigger adjusts all over the place on its own and then wears out in a few thousand rounds, and scope base screws come loose constantly. I've also seen more than one Savage chamber with burrs so pronounced the brass sticks when the rifle is fired and you have to hammer the bolt open and pray the extractor holds.
I've tried all of the so called "upgrades" from SSS and others to improve bolt lift, ejection, extraction, etc. I've even used retaining compound and red loctite along with new screws to try to keep the scope base from coming loose. I guess if I epoxied the base to the action it might have held.
Sure Savage can be accurate, but so is my factory RR serial # Rem700 308 barreled action in a Grayboe stock and my 100% factory down to the X Mark Pro trigger and wood stock 700CDL 30-06 hunting rifle. I don't have to deal with all the bullshit issues that I went through with Savage. They both feed, eject, extract, and shoot nice groups. And neither of the scope bases have become loose since I installed them.
These things don't happen in a vacuum,
there is a reason these things get the reputations they have...
Yes I was pointing how John Armstrong was able to succeed with a basic rifle set up, and get a "world record" 3 for 3 at 1 Mile using the exact set up posted above. It's a Remington ... but not some tricked out race gun. Hell it was a SWFA Super Sniper, I think a fixed 10x if I remember correctly ... which as noted by several, the Indian does have a bearing on where the Arrow goes.
I watched it first hand as the range officer for the event.
there is a reason these things get the reputations they have...
Yes I was pointing how John Armstrong was able to succeed with a basic rifle set up, and get a "world record" 3 for 3 at 1 Mile using the exact set up posted above. It's a Remington ... but not some tricked out race gun. Hell it was a SWFA Super Sniper, I think a fixed 10x if I remember correctly ... which as noted by several, the Indian does have a bearing on where the Arrow goes.
I watched it first hand as the range officer for the event.
I somewhat regret buying anything factory lately. I'm 0 for 3 on getting a 100% functional rifle, although they all shoot well.
1. Remington 700 ADL in .243 (purchased May, 2018) - Damn thing was consistently sub-MOA with cheap-assed Winchester white box 100gr stuff...damn action would bind too if ran hard, and trigger was fully adjustable all the way from 3.75 - 4 lbs.
2. Bergara Premier Approach in 7mm RM (purchased Nov, 2020) - Is a solid .6 - .7 MOA rifle with virtually no load development, and has almost zero POI shift from cold to hot bore...but it won't pop CCI primers reliably, and the frigging Grayboe stock flexed enough to contact the barrel that sat off-center in the channel. I fixed the issues (Bergara never called me back when I left a message with CS), but I'm cured of spending my money on them again.
3. Savage 110 Timberline in 6.5 CM (purchased July, 2021) - shot between .4 - .6 MOA with the only hunting handload I put through it, and had almost no POI shift across the entire load development...but the damn action doesn't feed well and will bind when ran hard.
Next on my list to try is a Tikka. Regretfully I should have put them much higher on my list several years ago.
1. Remington 700 ADL in .243 (purchased May, 2018) - Damn thing was consistently sub-MOA with cheap-assed Winchester white box 100gr stuff...damn action would bind too if ran hard, and trigger was fully adjustable all the way from 3.75 - 4 lbs.
2. Bergara Premier Approach in 7mm RM (purchased Nov, 2020) - Is a solid .6 - .7 MOA rifle with virtually no load development, and has almost zero POI shift from cold to hot bore...but it won't pop CCI primers reliably, and the frigging Grayboe stock flexed enough to contact the barrel that sat off-center in the channel. I fixed the issues (Bergara never called me back when I left a message with CS), but I'm cured of spending my money on them again.
3. Savage 110 Timberline in 6.5 CM (purchased July, 2021) - shot between .4 - .6 MOA with the only hunting handload I put through it, and had almost no POI shift across the entire load development...but the damn action doesn't feed well and will bind when ran hard.
Next on my list to try is a Tikka. Regretfully I should have put them much higher on my list several years ago.
If you want factory just go AI or TRG
or sell all that crap and buy a aftermarket action trigger barrel stock and be happy
Something tells me there's a giant disparity in price point there between something you find at a crappy big box store and AI/TRG. Not everyone has the cash flow to say "my $1K - 1,500 rifle sucks...guess I'll go buy a $4 - 7K+ one instead.
As a lover of all things guns (I need a 4th safe), I've got most of my aftermarket bases covered...and I'm very happy with many of my other purchases. It doesn't prevent me from pointing out that my last three factory guns that I bought for the purpose of having an inexpensive hunting rifle have/had issues.
Current project is a Krieger .264 tube getting screwed on one of my FN SPRs (love the platform, have three). It will be in 6.5x47L.
Meh id rather have one awesome gun than 5 ok guns. And ya become a better shooter that way.
but ya I get ya I have fun ADD also
Those FN SPRS are supposed to be great don’t act like ya don’t have nice stuff lol
I’m in agreement with this.
I mainly keep the savage for a loaner rifle and when I need my 260 fix.
Am i the only one here, who thinks its not right, to have to spend anything over $800 for a fully functional bolt action rifle that needs nothing at all out of the box. I know savage has issues, like i stated before. If im buying a cheap rifle, it will be a savage due to their "issues" being both cheap and easy to fix, permanently. The same cant be said for much else in the cheap market. Its total bs that any company can sell thing like that and it be considered "ok" but that is the generation of so call craftsmen we live in
Not everyone does I agree. But a lot of gun owners have dozens of riffles and then complain they can’t afford a “high dollar rig”. If they’d get rid of some of the crap in the back of the safe collecting dust they could buy something nice.
Just a couple years ago I decided to do the exact same and I now how 3 customs and multiple very nice scopes. It’s all about priorities. Sold all my savages too.
What happened to Remington ?
Used to be able to get LTRs and 700Ps for about that much and they were nice enough.
Cerberus happened to Remington.
i hear that alot, but i've yet to buy a remington 700 that i regret getting rid of. Maybe i have a curse on me when it comes to remington.
Yea, they did a serious number on Remington.
Now for a budget base a tikka or howa are a serious consideration.
Or a Origin or Mack Evo.
None of those were an option when I bought my savage.
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I’ve got 3-4 that haven’t given me issues as truck guns or hunting guns but I could see shooting matches might make them hiccup
yeah, everyone i've had, ended up with expensive, or deadly issues. Headspace being one, no choice for a guy like me but to take it somewhere. And trigger that liked to go off 100% on their own. One did it in a deer stand, just sitting in the corner of the stand, not even being touched. That one, was the last remington 700 i've ever owned. I've also had feed issues but no ejection issues with them. Just never been much a remington guy after the headache and risk they have cased me. That is still to this day the only accidental discharge i've ever had on any firearm. I know some say just change the trigger, but i never had faith in that rifle after that. It was also something i could make repeat (empty)
And they went bankrupt. Stripped the companies of everything they had during the biggest gun boom in history. Venture capitalists for the win.
I have rebarrelled Savage rifles in lever action, break action and bolt action.
I would rather rebarrel a pre 64 win M70, a 98 Mauser, Mosin Nagant, or Rem700.
Stock availability is poor.
The inside of a savage bolt is crazy.
The staggered feed/ center feed is crazy.
I would rather rebarrel a pre 64 win M70, a 98 Mauser, Mosin Nagant, or Rem700.
Stock availability is poor.
The inside of a savage bolt is crazy.
The staggered feed/ center feed is crazy.
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I zoomed in on my phone and could see the Remington print on the receiver…. Plain as day.
Not everyone does I agree. But a lot of gun owners have dozens of riffles and then complain they can’t afford a “high dollar rig”. If they’d get rid of some of the crap in the back of the safe collecting dust they could buy something nice.
Just a couple years ago I decided to do the exact same and I now how 3 customs and multiple very nice scopes. It’s all about priorities. Sold all my savages too.
You guys are right in many cases. A guy could definitely thin a safe and it would help upgrade. I got rid of the 700 ADL, and that Savage is on loan to the F-I-L, who won't ever take more than one shot anyway (and he'll miss in the process...I can say that here because he'll never see this).
I look at (relatively) inexpensive hunting rifles like I do tupperware pistols. They should function well, and be able to hit what I'm shooting at. I love pinned and recessed S&W, and old Colt revolvers...but I definitely carry a modern pistol for many reasons.
All of my high end money ends up in thermals as I have a hog problem too.
*Back to emptying my colon on Savage*
I wish that my latest 'higher end' Savage would have ran well...I would have loved to defend it on here. Unfortunately, an action that binds when it is ran hard is a death sentence for a hunting rifle. The accuracy is there though...on an abbreviated sight in and break-in I popped a couple half-inch groups on steel with less than 20 rounds on the barrel. That is with a hunting bullet/load combo that nobody would recommend for the 6.5 manbun. I loaded up six groups of four more shots to do some quick accuracy testing (virgin brass) and shot two groups under a half minute. I loaded three more rounds of the best group and shot it at 300 yards just to get an idea of how it might do a bit further out...and got a 1.5" group.
If only the damn thing would have cycled well.
I know, pics or it didn't happen...just four shot groups here.
Agree.
I have a 1991 made 700 BDL that is as smooth as anything, and I mean anything I've ever cycled.
My 2016, 700 ADL 'anniversary' rifle not only had a spray-painted jeweled bolt, but it was as rough as anything I've ever cycled.
I think this is what is getting lost in this thread. I have a Savage that I rebarrelled to 300 PRC right when the round came out - I wanted to try the round and this was the quickest way. I since put together a custom 300 PRC. Guess what...
- They both send bullets down range with essentially the same accuracy.
- Note that I did not say "shoot" the same as that verb means the entire act of shooting.
- With that said, I continually had issues trying to get the Savage to cycle effectively from a magazine after the barrel swap - I know, not what it was originally chambered for, but still... I also had the same problem before the swap with heavier/longer bullets. I single fed this rifle far, far more than I used a mag.
- Except for this, to get the Savage to "shoot" well, I had to add a new trigger, do stock mods, etc. - I probably have somewhere in the neighborhood of $1k in mods done to it, both failed and successful. I've often called this rifle my "Frankenrifle" - I was bound and determined to get it to shoot well. And I almost did.
- I had the scope rail come loose once (properly torqued, used Locktite, bedded, etc.)
- On my custom 300, this hasn't happened. If it does, I'm really in trouble as it's a Deviant action with an integral one.
- One of these rifles hasn't left the safe in about a year and a half.
Just because a rifle can put rounds on target with precision, it doesn't mean that it's just as good as something made with precision that does the same.
