Why the M110

[Alaskaman11]

Will somone explane why is the US Army leaving the M24 for the M110, i'm sorry I feel that is a poor idea, Also, I thought DoD put in a RFP for a 338 cal replacment for all Sniper Rifles chambered in 308.

Someone please help me clear this up for me.

 

[SFree]

Re: Why the M110

It's another club in the golf bag.

 

[shortdog]

Re: Why the M110

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SFree</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's another club in the golf bag. </div></div>
+1 why not. Better to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it.

 

[sinister]

Re: Why the M110

As of this month the M24 is going to be the Army's "Bridge" gun on the way towards the Long Range Precision Sniper Rifle. It is going to be re-barreled in 300 Win Mag and the requirement is to find a stock or modifications to mount a muzzle brake, suppressor, and night accesory rails.

Long Range Precision Sniper Rifle will be a 33-caliber "Non-developmental/non-wildcat" (pronounced 338 Lapua Magnum) rifle.

 

[Lindy]

Re: Why the M110

Isn't that already in existence, called the Mark 13 Mod 5?

Or do they want a better suppressor than that awful KAC unit?

 

[sinister]

Re: Why the M110

Do not confuse the Regular Army and units (and equipment procurement and supply systems) of the United States Special Operations Command.

Leg Army (with the exception of a single division which has them on loan) does NOT currently own USSOCOM "Mark" designated weapons. Perhaps some of the newer light machinegun Marks for evaluation, but I don't believe they're in force-wide issue.

The Mark 13 series (with modifications, or Mods) are bought with SOCOM dollars because parent services (Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines) have their own pet service projects and may not provide money down to the low-density Special Operations Forces.

The Leg Army got EXACTLY what they asked for with the M110 -- including REPLACING the M24 on a 1-for-1 basis (basically ignoring the divisions, the Army Special Operations Command, the Sniper School, and the Army Marksmanship Unit who all said it should be an AUGMENTING weapon)

 

[Arch]

Re: Why the M110

I might argue that it was Leg Army spelled H-Q and not the individual fighting man. budha-budha-jam-jam...

 

[lrs50bmg]

Re: Why the M110

The Navy will soon be changing over to the Mk248 Mod 1 300WM ammo for their Mk13 rifles, 220 gr vs 190 gr SMK, Loaded to 68,000 psi, max not to exceed 72,000 psi, M/V: 2850, MOA from 1.167 to 1.50. Tested from a 24" barrel. Decision made after comparing this load to 338LM. This is for the regular teams. I believe they are switching to Surefire cans instead of the KAC, but these things take a while.....

Some of the Dam Neck folks are using .338 Norma Mag.

68,000 psi! They don't half to worry about reloading the brass.

SOCOM procurement is decidedly different.

 

[Alaskaman11]

Re: Why the M110

It makes since that the legs want in if they are staying in the cities of Iraq, if it was a true augment. But we are heading back to Afghanistan. That’s going to be more open shooting again. The stuff past 600 to 800 meters. I feel that the M24/40 is better able to handle the long rang stuff. I know the guys in SF/Delta/Seals They get all the uber stuff (I got a friend in group who is using a TRG42 now). But it seems like that DOD is doing what they always did; get new stuff to fight the last war.

 

[oneshot onekill]

Re: Why the M110

Believe it or not I just saw a show this morning on the Military Channel about this very topic. According to the show it's a matter of target acquisition time and the ability to stay on the optics in a "target-rich" environment or where fast follow-up shots are necessary.

I guess the Army snipers don't live by the same One shot One kill philosophy that Marine Snipers do!

 

[Patrick_S]

Re: Why the M110

I dont think they should leave the M24, but the 110 seems offer an advantage when you need follow up shots or there is more than one target in the area. Keep em' both I say, but I am just a dumb civilian.

 

[cubewarrior]

Re: Why the M110

Was reading Army Times this week-- looks like 25ID is going to an 300WM M24 in an AICS 2.0. From the article, it seems like its going to be done under a modification to the existing contract.

 

[Arch]

Re: Why the M110

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneshot onekill</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I guess the Army snipers don't live by the same One shot One kill philosophy that Marine Snipers do!

</div></div>
You would guess wrong! The people doing the fighting are often not the same people deciding what to buy and the people deciding what to buy are often people that have never been infantrymen.

A little rivalry is good and I have a Marine bias, but I know some damn good Soldiers.

One Team. One Fight.

 

[oneshot onekill]

Re: Why the M110

I really meant that in the spirit of friendly competition... I'm on the same page with ya!!!

SEMPER-FI

 

[Alaskaman11]

Re: Why the M110

Im still sick with the idea of a semi auto. As I say, in the city its ok, if it was another club in hte golf bag, cool, as it being the only club. BAD IDEA

 

[Lindy]

Re: Why the M110

Don't get hung up on that idea. As Sinister Dave noted above, the Army long gun is still going to be a bolt gun. The M110 is a weapon suited to urban fighting, and it's appropriate for that use.

 

[splean]

Re: Why the M110

I like the golf bag analogy. That way the right tool can be used for the job.

 

[Dogtown]

Re: Why the M110

A semi also rules from aerial platforms.

Indeed, times are changing and I think as usual TTPs and equipment continue to trickle down from SOF circles to the conventional world, the medium sniper rifle being another example of that.

 

[Fishman7]

Re: Why the M110

because they offer a second alternative faster follow up and they blend in with the m4's

besides i love mine

 

[Lindy]

Re: Why the M110

That's an Armalite. The M110s are made by KAC.

 

[Fishman7]

Re: Why the M110

Lindy
thats very observant i guess the big fat eagle on the front of the rcvr gave that away or maybe the picture of the roll marks ????? hmmm


fyi armalite was in the running for the Sass project and yes they were beat out by KAC

what your looking at is 1 of 15 Sass Carbines and my build of a SASS Armalite only makes the fullsize SASS now

but mine runs like a champ

KAC is a overpriced name some great technology but still over price in my eyes

 

[Dogtown]

Re: Why the M110

Personally, I think of KAC as the Barrett of smaller calibers. They both were innovators but never really got the quality issue down when fielding weapons.

 

[Lindy]

Re: Why the M110

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">KAC is a overpriced name some great technology but still over price in my eyes.</div></div>

I don't disagree with that a bit. I've seen a bunch of the KACs, with a bunch of problems.

However, "in the running" doesn't make it an M110.

 

[Fishman7]

Re: Why the M110

i never stated it was a 110 you must have taken my post out of text seeing i posted the roll marks and never saod it was a 110 its a SASS and the 110 is a SASS aswell

anyhow i still love mine better than a KAC 110

 

[LongShot94]

Re: Why the M110

in the international sniper comp. lots of teams were using the m110 only and they didn't do to good. they couldn't reach out to hit the long targets.

 

[Lindy]

Re: Why the M110

I consider the M110 an 800 yard weapon at sea level.

 

[badkarma1985]

Re: Why the M110

Personally I would recommend the SEI Crazy Horse over the M110 SASS any day

 

[OverWatch]

Re: Why the M110

The main reason the ARMY is SUPPLIMENTING the M-24 with the M-110 is that combat commanders and shooters have a need to produce rapid target reduction in urban environments, which the M-24 was not capable of providing. The M-110 is an 800m gun, but when 90% of all engagements are less than 500m that is not an issue. The M-110 also comes from the factory read to accept inline night vision major draw back to the M-24 unless you have an ECHO version or a McCann or MARRS.

OW

 

[OverWatch]

Re: Why the M110

The OPSEC monster will get you....

 

[Fishman7]

Re: Why the M110

thats because you dont own a SASS
the next time i see you Crazy horse im sending it to the glue factory its lost its mind rotf
besides you have not even shot it yet it could be a new style flyer gun
i know what the Sass can do lol

btw you need to stop drooling over my sass i got your dna off of it

 

[OverWatch]

Re: Why the M110

Well said, one more option for the sniper to pick depending on his mission. +100

 

[urhuckleberry21]

Re: Why the M110

My .02 cents, Its kinda the same reason they started using the m-14? as the dmr. I know if I were in an urban environment I would prefer follow up shot capability over 800+ yard precision. Its like 600 Jafars every one hundred yards, rather than one Jafar every 600 yards, same reason I would rather have an AR with a heavy barrel shooting groundhogs, and I'd rather have my good bolt gun for the deer hunt.

Btw, before yall ream me out, I am in no way suggesting that I am right, but more along the lines of asking if I'm on the right track here. lol just a theory.

 

[chriso]

Re: Why the M110

The m24 itself is not just a 308 but a long action that can accept 300 WM or 7.62x51 they have already started fielding some of the LA in AICS stocks. As far as the SASS it is Great in rapid fire engagements in a target rich enviorment I would rather have a m24 any day as far as up close well thats what the m4's for cleaning up!

 

[kenchurch]

Re: Why the M110



I guess the Army snipers don't live by the same One shot One kill philosophy that Marine Snipers do!

Nope......

 

[260shtr]

Re: Why the M110

Anymore new about the Army going with a 300 Win Mag (what ammo)? And, is the M-110 on line yet?

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Why the M110

The M110 has been Online for a long time and actually a lot of units are taking them off line because of problems.

As well the Army has been using the 300WM for a long time, they use A191 which just got a new name, (which I forget) a Mk249 or something which means the new stuff might be around the corner.

Lot of M110 are going back for repair or being turned back in. We just had a sniper cell down a month ago, they got rid of all of them.

 

[dmg308]

Re: Why the M110

Are they using the 300wm in the m24 platform with the leupold m3?

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Why the M110

No, Mk13 with NF,

 

[Lindy]

Re: Why the M110

Here's a PDF file with some information on the new ammo - which incorporates a 220 grain SMK, instead of the 190 grain in the A191 load:

http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2009infantrysmallarms/tuesdaysessioniii8524.pdf

If you page down through that file, you find one of the objectives was increased propellant stability - and that's a good objective, because the A191 cartridge exhibits large variations in muzzle velocity with temperature. That's not a good thing in the sandbox.

 

[Psywar1-0]

Re: Why the M110

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmg308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are they using the 300wm in the m24 platform with the leupold m3? </div></div>

The contract has not been awarded, in fact all Ive seen is a Sources Sought published.

As to the Big Army unit using the Mk13's, I dont know who provided them the scopes and what they were.

Ive also not seen anything on what 25th is getting/received.

 

[Lindy]

Re: Why the M110

Most people using the term "Big Army" use it to exclude SOCOM units. The Army folks using the Mark 13s I've seen are part of SOCOM. As Lowlight noted, mostly they have Nightforces on them - but SOCOM units pretty well buy whatever they want, unlike the regular Army.

 

[dmg308]

Re: Why the M110

I hope they have a muzzle brake or that things gonna hurt.Very good info thanks.

 

[Lindy]

Re: Why the M110

The Mark 13 Mod 5 has a KAC can on it. The attachment method sucks, leading to both accuracy and reliability problems. I hope like hell they are working on a better suppressor system for it, and for the M24 upgrades.

 

[dmg308]

Re: Why the M110

So they use the can all the time?

 

[Lindy]

Re: Why the M110

No. And there are several versions of the Mark 13 around. Only the mod 5 has the can. A can is a really, really, good idea for it, though - if they fix it. The 110 needs a better can system, too.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Why the M110

I think they are up to Mod 7, with a few 338LM as the Mod 8, but they are not operational is my understanding and the 338 was canned for the new bullet... but who knows, that is all back room shit, the guys are using Mod 5, and it might have been Mod 3 when the can first happened, its hard to keep track of that many Mods.

 

[dmg308]

Re: Why the M110

Do you think there will be a trend to phase out .308 in the bolt gun platforms or just augment it with the mk13s?

 

[Lindy]

Re: Why the M110

Yeah, I'm old, and I've slept since then.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Why the M110

Who knows, they may turn all the M24's into TacMods, they may become 300WM in chassis... its pretty much anything goes at this point and it really depends who is in charge on that day.

It would take a while to trickle down no matter what they do, although I am pretty sure Big Army is moving more towards the semi-auto-system if they can get it too work right, as that program is shit tortured right now. But even the National Guard are getting M110s, then turning them in for repair, at least the last group we worked with 2 weeks ago did.

 

[Fredo]

Re: Why the M110

Bullshit politics.

To bad they can't try some of the new shit coming out that actually functions.