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"Why was the BF109K faster than the P51D? MW 50!"
- Thread starter steve podleski
- Start date
Some of these comparisons are not well done. The K-14 really was not put into production and if it was, when it came out it was a contemporary of the P-51H which was 30 mph faster.
The K-4 would be the best comparison to the -51D.
Below 22k ft, or so, the 109k-4 was a faster a/c, better climb and turn. Above that, they start to even out. Check out WWII performance.net for the performance charts.
Keep in mind they were aircraft that were designed for different things. The P-51 was a long range escort optimized for distance. The 109 was an interceptor that had little range.
This is a subject for which many hours could be spent debating.
The K-4 would be the best comparison to the -51D.
Below 22k ft, or so, the 109k-4 was a faster a/c, better climb and turn. Above that, they start to even out. Check out WWII performance.net for the performance charts.
Keep in mind they were aircraft that were designed for different things. The P-51 was a long range escort optimized for distance. The 109 was an interceptor that had little range.
This is a subject for which many hours could be spent debating.
Never saw service in WWII so what's your point?
The Abrams can beat a Sherman too.
All I can say is this. I’ve flown a p51. I’ve never had more fun in my life. It may not be the fastest. But it’s sexy as hell and it got the job done. It’s role was a long range fighter escort. It needed endurance not speed.
Never flew a P51 but saw one up close at the air show at Offutt AFB mid '90's. IIRCC it's nickname was " The Gambler ". There was a P47 that was massive for a fighter. I think those boys called themselves the Confederate Air Force.
If I could afford to own a p51 I would. There aren’t many left. My next choice would be an A1. the P47 was a big plane for the time. Not your typical fighter which is usually more sleek, it was a bulky bird but did its job.
At the Reno air races in 2000, there was a P47, F4U, F8F Bearcat, Spitfire, and lots of P51’s. That Bearcat was huge! The spitfire was very small in comparison. Always loved the P-47 & F4U... The sexiest by far was a stock P-51 (not race modified), polished with invasion stripes on it. The pilots name on the side of the fuselage was some guy named Jack Rousch. 
I've not been in a P-51, but I did get a ride in a Harvard once. A long long time ago, when I was an Air Cadet.
There used to be a dude at KIND that had a F8F in the Signature hangar right abeam the US Airways gates at the old terminal. Every time I'd be waiting to commute to work I'd look at that thing and be like 1. that's huge, 2. I wish I had that kind of money. Not sure if the plane is still there or not...
Real estate developer in Louisville used to have a F4U kept at JVY...that thing was equally as awesome.
I've never flown or ridden in a P51D but I have seen them up close and those things are hot sex with wings for anybody with an FAA Certificate. If you can't identify a RR Merlin on sound alone, are you really even a pilot?
Real estate developer in Louisville used to have a F4U kept at JVY...that thing was equally as awesome.
I've never flown or ridden in a P51D but I have seen them up close and those things are hot sex with wings for anybody with an FAA Certificate. If you can't identify a RR Merlin on sound alone, are you really even a pilot?
Yep. And then after WWII, all those aircraft engineers and mechanics brought their tradecraft to dirt tracks, drag strips, and (eventually) road courses around the country. Most every standard hot-rodding invention (and a few that are not so typical) can be traced back to their ingenuity - cylinder head porting, turbos, supercharging, nitrous oxide, water injection, and the importance of detonation-resistant (read: high octane) fuel. Not so glamorously but probably more important, there were also a number of innovations that improved the durability and efficiency of internal combustion engines for commercial transportation purposes.
50/50 meth/water is still a popular recipe today for squeezing that last lil' bit from a forced-induction engine. Once you've achieved blowtorch-like discharge temperatures from the charge cooling system by spinning a too-small blower too fast, a dose of windshield washer fluid keeps the intake temps under control and thus allows a bit more ignition timing advance and a bit less fuel, and thus MOAR POWWA!!!
Note of interest: While the P-47 is slightly larger, the F4U Corsair is very close in overall size. P-47, F4U, F8F, F6F all used different versions of the R2800 radial engine and thus why they are all large aircraft. The P-47 was the only one to use a turbo along with the supercharger which is why it had the best high altitude performance. The others, being naval aircraft primarily, had superchargers that were optimized for lower (read 25k ft and lower) altitudes. P-47 started to shine above 28k ft.
He means absolute pressure within the intake manifold/tract, whether supercharged, turbocharged, or naturally aspirated. Being a car guy myself, I was a little confused by the term when I started flying. When car guys talk about inHg of vacuum, they are also speaking of manifold pressure, but expressing it differently. "Pressure" doesn't necessarily mean positive pressure, or pressure above ambient (i.e. boost), it just means whatever the air pressure is in an absolute term.
Clear as mud?
P-38 for me, the forked tail devil was put to good use by Mr Bong.
R
R
Taiwan could pick and choose WW2 fighter planes in the war against the commies after WW2.
They plane of choise was late models P47 M and N. The P47 was even successful against the Mig 15.
Replacing P47s with P51s over Germany in WW2 was a cost cutting measure. There was nothing a P51 could do that a late models P47 could not. Only difference was that the P47 cost twice as much as a P51 pr flying hour. The P47 was a much better at ground attack than the P51 and was preferred in that role till the end og the war in Europe.
Nothing could match a Me262 jet in WW2.
They plane of choise was late models P47 M and N. The P47 was even successful against the Mig 15.
Replacing P47s with P51s over Germany in WW2 was a cost cutting measure. There was nothing a P51 could do that a late models P47 could not. Only difference was that the P47 cost twice as much as a P51 pr flying hour. The P47 was a much better at ground attack than the P51 and was preferred in that role till the end og the war in Europe.
Nothing could match a Me262 jet in WW2.
Laughs in HO229 while bombing all your shit right around the time you realized WTF just happened.
The P51 had endurance like no other airplane thanx to its wing, also the me262 was a pig I helped a little reverse engineering them at pain field Everett, we borrowed an original one fro a navy base in Florida and took it apart, it’s downfall was that by the time the German engineer came up with the design they were out of aluminum so it was a heavy pig, and had no endurance.........
Collings Foundation has (had?) a flying Me262 and I was sitting on the ramp in Amarillo 7-8 years ago and it landed & taxied in...SUCH a distinctive sound...
Good thing the Germans designed an engine that had a lot of turbine lag and wasn't very reliable.
Good thing the Germans designed an engine that had a lot of turbine lag and wasn't very reliable.
The ones built in Everett didn’t use the original engines they were way too inefficient they put another engine inside the original cowlings.....
Be that as it may, the sound was unlike any I've EVER heard.
And the original engines were definitely (and thankfully) rubbish.
Let's not go injecting reality into my fun idea of bombing people with a high speed Ho.
At the Reno air races in 2000, there was a P47, F4U, F8F Bearcat, Spitfire, and lots of P51’s. That Bearcat was huge! The spitfire was very small in comparison. Always loved the P-47 & F4U... The sexiest by far was a stock P-51 (not race modified), polished with invasion stripes on it. The pilots name on the side of the fuselage was some guy named Jack Rousch.
That would be Jack Roush of Roush Performance and NASCAR fame. He currently owns two P-51's both restored and are in flying condition.
I'am sorry, but I couldn't resist shooting down your dreams with my four 30mm MK 108 cannons.
Hopefully Roush isn't flying any more after putting his Premier into the Turn 3 wall at Oshkosh a few years back...
Wait a minute. Those are German guns. Why would you be shooting me?
And technically, the HO was supposed to have those as well.
The Confederate Air Force changed its name in 2002 to the Commemorative Air Force to better reflect its mission.
Were you involved in the contract to build the 262 for various customers such as museums? I saw the last one being build some years ago. I think I saw one flying from my office window off Airport Road that same year (~2010?)
I think this was the fastest piston/prop during WW2.
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As far as I know they all went to South Africa, I just helped out, I actually was working for the university of Washington’s atmospheric aircraft flying over oilwell fires in the Middle East and such taking air samples, I was not a scientist I was just a lowely aircraft mechanic
Had they done it in 1942 instead of 1945 the war could have been a much different outcome. Thankfully we had pretty much decimated them when the 262 was ready. No gas and no parts.
Jack sold his OG p51 “old crow”. He’s restoring a new one now last I heard. So he may have 1 and a half
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