Why would the plumber/builder do this...

[KZP]

I'm renovating my kitchen. Ripped out the cabinets and discovered a mild moldy spot on the drywall near the floor. After ripping it all off I found a singe cold water PEX line that feeds water to the master toilet on the 2nd floor. Turns out the kitchen cabinet installers drilled a screw right through the pipe so it has been slowly leaking since the house was built. That's patched now.

I'm confused as to why they ran a single line from the crawl space on the outside wall to the toilet on a 2nd floor? There is also an interior wall right next to it that could have fed the line up under the floor. I'm concerned about gaining access to it in the future should something happen after installing a massive marble backsplash.

I'm leaning towards running a new line from the crawl space through the interior wall, but once I start ripping out the tub it may be easier to borrow from that cold line. Any reason I should do pick one solution over the other? Are toilets supposed to have a dedicated line from the crawl space?

 

[7.62willdo]

replace with copper

 

[Redheeler]

While I don’t know all of the situation, I would have to question why was it run in an outside wall when there is an inside wall that works. Don’t know your weather extremes there but here it would be just plain stupidity.

 

[plong]

replace with copper

why... its 2022... pex is proven tech...

no reason for toilet to have "dedicated" run; run it from the closest point.

 

[jg6.5]

why... its 2022... pex is proven tech...

no reason for toilet to have "dedicated" run; run it from the closest point.

I concur, grab cold water supply from the closest point or through the path of least resistance.

Same with PEX - it's been around long enough. Its polybutylene predecessor is a different story.

Hindsight is 20/20, but sounds like the previous plumber forgot a nail plate and an inspector didn't catch it either.

 

[BullGear]

Too many variables. A picture would help. But I'm thinking just pick up the tub water line. If you are feeding from a 3/4" line to 1/2", you won't notice any difference in usage.

 

[JMGlasgow]

Pex was required for my shower when they repaired my house.

Is the outside wall a 2x6 studded wall where they ran the pex? Was there any kind of metal shielding to protect against puncture from nails or screws?

Obviously they didn't do a pressure test on the pipes when it was built to check for leaks.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

I don't know about your locale, but here the house insurance REQUIRES metal-braided hoses connecting the toilet and clothes washer to the supply. Too many homes have had 'flooding' claims because of plastic lines breaking/freezing/failing.

So, that makes me ask, how 'confident' are you?

 

[357Max]

If the current plumber is not an idiot then ask his honest opinion.

I am not a plumber.

2 thoughts

1. Noise - outer wall is insulated, inner is not.

2. Pulling from the closest point might seem like the right call. It may however result in getting your ass burnt when wifey flushes while your in the shower.

 

[plong]

Pex was required for my shower when they repaired my house.

Is the outside wall a 2x6 studded wall where they ran the pex? Was there any kind of metal shielding to protect against puncture from nails or screws?

Obviously they didn't do a pressure test on the pipes when it was built to check for leaks.

Whole lotta conjecture going on in this thread (guessing...) pressure test would've been at rough-in, well prior to drywall and cabinet install. As for "missing" nail-plates, I've seen trim screws put where no one would've/could've ever guessed... you can't nail-plate the entire wall. Also, a trim screw mistakenly run into a pex line could've held, at residential pressure (80 psi or less...), for some time before a leak showed-up.

 

[plong]

If the current plumber is not an idiot then ask his honest opinion.

I am not a plumber.

2 thoughts

1. Noise - outer wall is insulated, inner is not.

2. Pulling from the closest point might seem like the right call. It may however result in getting your ass burnt when wifey flushes while your in the shower.

Assume if he's "ripping out" the tub a new valve would be installed. Any modern tub/shower valve will be pressure-balanced, expressly designed to prevent said ass-burning.

 

[7.62willdo]

why... its 2022... pex is proven tech...

no reason for toilet to have "dedicated" run; run it from the closest point.

I live on a beach and we have rats here, if you poison them they will chew right thru PEX to get to the water……….I’ve heard rats will chew thru copper as well I’ve just never seen it.

 

[357Max]

Assume if he's "tearing into" the tub a new valve would be installed. Any modern tub/shower valve will be pressure-balanced, expressly designed to prevent said ass-burning.

I try my best to never assume.
Asking the plumber to confirm he is installing new modern valves would be an excellent question to ask.

You’d also assume an engineer would include expansion couplings on PVC drain risers for a 25 story building when casting the risers into concrete. Nope!

 

[rtB]

Slather a bunch of flex seal all over everything. Done.

 

[KZP]

Assume I know almost nothing, so tips appreciated.

Pex was required for my shower when they repaired my house.

Is the outside wall a 2x6 studded wall where they ran the pex? Was there any kind of metal shielding to protect against puncture from nails or screws?

Obviously they didn't do a pressure test on the pipes when it was built to check for leaks.

Outside wall is 2x4

Only metal plates were 4" from floor and ceiling. They blocked it out away from the main stud using scrap, but that didn't stop the cabinet installers. The probably found the block thinking it was a stud, then got a bit too far away. Funny that the cabinet in that corner was held up by PEX.

Whole lotta conjecture going on in this thread (guessing...) pressure test would've been at rough-in, well prior to drywall and cabinet install. As for "missing" nail-plates, I've seen trim screws put where no one would've/could've ever guessed... you can't nail-plate the entire wall. Also, a trim screw mistakenly run into a pex line could've held, at residential pressure (80 psi or less...), for some time before a leak showed-up.

Yep, the leak was so slow I don't think they knew. The screw sealed up the pipe. Looks like as it rusted over time it started to leak. This is about 10 years of sitting in the wall.

 

[tomcatmv]

replace with copper

As a retired commercial mechanical contractor having done many mid and high rise residential projects PEX is superior to copper in several ways as long as it is joined properly as in using a pex tool and the pex rings. Don't like the shark bite shit. If water in a pex line freezes it will not likely blow out as plex flexes unlike copper. Water freezes axially not radially. Pex will take the stress and flex unless it's really fricking cold.

 

[packratt]

Also if you are on a well or have hard water you have problems with the copper leaking over time.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Never underestimate the stupidity of some people...

Sirhr

 

[7.62willdo]

Never underestimate the stupidity of some people...

View attachment 7799176

Sirhr

No way somebody’s that stupid…..

 

[whatsupdoc]

While there are some good ones, the majority of plumbers are without a clue.

 

[BullGear]

^^^^^
I had a plumber run hot and cold lines through a wall for a sink. He ran the lines backwards. At the sink side, he had to cross the lines in order for them to be on the correct side.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Yada...Yada, Yada.
If you pull the toilet off the closest 3/4" trunk line, scalding in the shower shouldn't be a problem.
Pull off the 1/2" cold line going to the shower, it could be a problem.
There is a simple solution either way.
Don't flush the toilet, till you are out of the shower.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

 

[sirhrmechanic]

No way somebody’s that stupid…..

 

[sirhrmechanic]

No way somebody’s that stupid…..

 

[sirhrmechanic]

No way somebody’s that stupid…..

 

[sirhrmechanic]

No way somebody’s that stupid…..

 

[sirhrmechanic]

No way somebody’s that stupid…..

 

[sirhrmechanic]

No way somebody’s that stupid…..

I rest my case…

Sirhr

 

[Im2bent]

Never underestimate the stupidity of some people...

View attachment 7799176

Sirhr

To be fair he matched the pattern pretty darn close......

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Where did the toilet line come from exactly?

 

[KZP]

Too many variables. A picture would help. But I'm thinking just pick up the tub water line. If you are feeding from a 3/4" line to 1/2", you won't notice any difference in usage.

Yada...Yada, Yada.
If you pull the toilet off the closest 3/4" trunk line, scalding in the shower shouldn't be a problem.
Pull off the 1/2" cold line going to the shower, it could be a problem.
There is a simple solution either way.
Don't flush the toilet, till you are out of the shower.

Okay, I bet the lines from the tub are only 1/2" so that's why they ran a new line. I'll find out eventually

 

[KZP]

Where did the toilet line come from exactly?

I didn't follow it all the way when I was in the crawl space doing other stuff, I'll have to check later. After reading other comments it's probably coming directly off the 3/4" from down there.

 

[Conaso]

When renovating my kitchen they found a live faucet 3" above floor stud in the wall between kitchen and dining room. Hadn't leaked in 20 years so they left it. No way to trace and placing a cap might leak one day.

 

[frer]

By code you can only run 2 fixtures on a half inch line, 3 fixtures on a 3/4" line.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

By code you can only run 2 fixtures on a half inch line, 3 fixtures on a 3/4" line.

Exactly. Which...in theory...since you can assume there's a vanity in that bath....there SHOULD be a 3/4 trunk, relatively close.
Wait.....I'm thinking like me. I'm thinking like a master plumber that has pride in his work, and builds it like he will use it himself.


I think I figured it out.
They run it from the crawlspace, cause they didnt want to run 3/4 to that bathroom.
Lazy shortcutting fuckers.

 

[KZP]

Exactly. Which...in theory...since you can assume there's a vanity in that bath....there SHOULD be a 3/4 trunk, relatively close.

There is a shower, tub, 2 vanity sinks & toilet

 

[frer]

Shower and tub count as one fixture so 3/4" would suffice.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

There is a shower, tub, 2 vanity sinks & toilet

Wait....you have two diverters, or just one faucet for tub and shower?

 

[KZP]

Wait....you have two diverters, or just one faucet for tub and shower?

Stand up shower and large soaking tub separate.

 

[SilentStalkr]

I don't know about your locale, but here the house insurance REQUIRES metal-braided hoses connecting the toilet and clothes washer to the supply. Too many homes have had 'flooding' claims because of plastic lines breaking/freezing/failing.

So, that makes me ask, how 'confident' are you?

The connections will fail before PEX.

As a retired commercial mechanical contractor having done many mid and high rise residential projects PEX is superior to copper in several ways as long as it is joined properly as in using a pex tool and the pex rings. Don't like the shark bite shit. If water in a pex line freezes it will not likely blow out as plex flexes unlike copper. Water freezes axially not radially. Pex will take the stress and flex unless it's really fricking cold.

Exactly. Sadly, a lot of plumbers still use the shark bite shit! Ask me how I know!

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Stand up shower and large soaking tub separate.

Then....there should be a trunk line on second floor.
Code may have stipulated they have dedicated line to toilet from different source trunk.

I'd pull it off trunk in bathroom....unless you'll be hosting bath parties of 3 or more.

 

[frer]

Stand up shower and large soaking tub separate.

In that case you would need more than one 3/4" line. Probably why they ran a separate 1/2" line for toilet.

 

[CSGambill]

I have one for you. I was remodeling my mudroom a month ago, tore down a soffit to find 6 romex cables running from the wall through the drywall in the ceiling. The wires come from an empty space that contains the vent stack etc. And goes from the crawlspace to the attic. The space between the ceiling joists is open to the vent stack space. There is no reason not to run these wires another 6 inches over the top plate and into the open area. Would have been a pain in the ass to fix. I'll build cabinets to hide it. But seriously, wtf?

 

[frer]

Then....there should be a trunk line on second floor.
Code may have stipulated they have dedicated line to toilet from different source trunk.

I'd pull it off trunk in bathroom....unless you'll be hosting bath parties of 3 or more.

Exactly. Most people don't use shower and tub at the same time.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Copper or PEX?
I was sweating copper when I was 10yrs old. Daddy was a master plumber and I was brought up to work like a sled dog.
35 years ago, I would have told you copper is superior....not so today.
Brass fittings, crimp rings, properly calibrated pop tool, and modern PEX pipe.
That combo today is far superior to any sweated copper....or swaged copper for that matter, when its carrying water.
Underground?
I'll still choose soft L or K copper, swaged fittings....but Holy shit is it expensive .

 

[armorpl8chikn]

I have one for you. I was remodeling my mudroom a month ago, tore down a soffit to find 6 romex cables running from the wall through the drywall in the ceiling. The wires come from an empty space that contains the vent stack etc. And goes from the crawlspace to the attic. The space between the ceiling joists is open to the vent stack space. There is no reason not to run these wires another 6 inches over the top plate and into the open area. Would have been a pain in the ass to fix. I'll build cabinets to hide it. But seriously, wtf?

View attachment 7799234

That's plum sexy right there...holy carp.

 

[KZP]

I have one for you. I was remodeling my mudroom a month ago, tore down a soffit to find 6 romex cables running from the wall through the drywall in the ceiling. The wires come from an empty space that contains the vent stack etc. And goes from the crawlspace to the attic. The space between the ceiling joists is open to the vent stack space. There is no reason not to run these wires another 6 inches over the top plate and into the open area. Would have been a pain in the ass to fix. I'll build cabinets to hide it. But seriously, wtf?

View attachment 7799234

Must have been the same guy at my house, did something similar in my kitchen. Behind the sink was a small angled false back. They just ran the lines through the floor. I wasn't planning on using that space so that saves me some time. In fact, I added a few more the same way because why not. I'll let the future owner make a forum post complaining.

 

[CSGambill]

Must have been the same guy at my house, did something similar in my kitchen. Behind the sink was a small angled false back. They just ran the lines through the floor. I wasn't planning on using that space so that saves me some time. In fact, I added a few more the same way because why not. I'll let the future owner make a forum post complaining.

View attachment 7799244

Looks like some apprentice drilled up from below and missed the wall.

 

[JJMoody]

We need a dumbass construction sticky- post stupid stuff you’ve seen on site. It’d be legendary.