Sidearms & Scatterguns wife has issues with glock, any ideas?

SugarBooger

SugarBooger

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Mar 27, 2012
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#1
Today i took my wife to the range with me and another friend.
I brought my gen4 G17 and my buddy brought his SW 636 and SW 9mm semi. He and I were both running 115gr. Winchester white box ammunition and we were blowing through magazines left and right.

Then I got my wife to fire my pistol. She has always been leery of firearms and has only fired it once before with me. The problem is feeding issues. Every time she pulls the trigger and gets a shot off, the next round gets jammed up in the slide. Or the spent cartridge fails to eject.

I then take the firearm, clear it, reload, fire a quick string, install a new magazine, rerack the slide and hand it back to her and... same thing again. I worked with her on grip, pressing the front sight, trigger control, everything I could think of.

My friend let her fire both his revolver and semi. Her issues with the revolver were all in aiming, but with the semi, not a single issue.

Is there something I'm missing? "Limp wristing"? Is that even a real thing? Sorry for the long post, and I appreciate any and all feedback.
 
#3
Re: wife has issues with glock, any ideas?

She is limp wristing it. She's letting her wrist snap back and absorb the recoil the slide needs to function. My mother tried my glock while shopping for a firearm of her own, same thing. Fixed her grip, no issues. Grab the muzzle when it's unloaded while she's holding it and make her stiffen her grip to keep it on target. Then apply that to live fire.
 
#4
Re: wife has issues with glock, any ideas?

I've seen it happen several times with people that have a loose grip on the gun or weak hand strength.

You might try running some really heavy ammo and see if that fixes the issue by having enough force on the recoil to overcome the limp wristing.
 
#5
Re: wife has issues with glock, any ideas?

perhaps get a different wife?
Sorry, couldn't help myself.

There are aftermarket springs that may or may not help the issue.
 
#6
Re: wife has issues with glock, any ideas?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yep there is such a thing! While I still have a G19 and love it; my GF always has issues w/ it. Now she has a M&P...no problems. </div></div>

M&P all the way. She can't get along with the poor ergos of the Glock. M&P sits lower in the hand and the frame flexes much less, making it not as prone to jam when a little "limp wrist" action is going on.
 
#7
Re: wife has issues with glock, any ideas?

Thank you for the response. While I'm a firm believer there is no substitute for experience, how does one gain said experience?

LawnMM, how are you holding the muzzle while she dry fires?

She has expressed interest in going to the range with me more often, and has also told me how nervous she gets. There are things I can and can't control. Having a spouse that enjoys shooting as much as I do, doesn't seem like an impossible possibility. Thanks again
 
#8
Re: wife has issues with glock, any ideas?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SugarBooger</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> impossible possibility. </div></div>
confused.gif
laugh.gif
!
 
#9
Re: wife has issues with glock, any ideas?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Powder Burns</div><div class="ubbcode-body">perhaps get a different wife?
Sorry, couldn't help myself.

There are aftermarket springs that may or may not help the issue. </div></div>

Thats funny shit! My wife carries an HK compact no problems there!
 
#11
Re: wife has issues with glock, any ideas?

+1 for getting the M&P. The ergos of the weapon are much better and an inexperienced shooter will have an easier time with it. Not saying that a M&P cannot be limp wristed but they are not as easy to do as a Glock. I was a Glock owner till I shot the M&P.
 
#12
Re: wife has issues with glock, any ideas?

Higher grip (mind the slide bite) and stiff wrist.

I bought a 22 convert for my wife and it made it worse. She got used to lower recoil. So I put her o n a pistol grip 12ga , 18" bbl , shooting bird shot. She dosent complain about the glocks anymore.
 
#13
Re: wife has issues with glock, any ideas?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SugarBooger</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Is there something I'm missing? "Limp wristing"? Is that even a real thing? Sorry for the long post, and I appreciate any and all feedback. </div></div>

Yes it is a real thing. Some pistols are more prone to it than others, but you need to fix the problem not the pistol. I don't know what grip you were teaching, but a high "thumbs forward" grip and isosceles stance will generally take care of it.

Now if she is flinching on top of it and that is causing the problem, then you need to do some remedial to sort that out. Dry firing, BB guns or .22s are all good tools for this.
 
#14
Re: wife has issues with glock, any ideas?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SugarBooger</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Is there something I'm missing? "Limp wristing"? Is that even a real thing? Sorry for the long post, and I appreciate any and all feedback. </div></div>

Yes it is a real thing. Some pistols are more prone to it than others, but you need to fix the problem not the pistol. I don't know what grip you were teaching, but a high "thumbs forward" grip and isosceles stance will generally take care of it.

Now if she is flinching on top of it and that is causing the problem, then you need to do some remedial to sort that out. Dry firing, BB guns or .22s are all good tools for this. </div></div>

Lonewolf nailed it. Fix the form. A thumbs forward grip will give her better control in general and should resolve the limp-wristing issue. The Advantage Arms .22LR kit is a good investment too. Same grip, trigger pull, and sight picture for cheaper practice. My wife loves the .22 kit on my G23.
 
#15
Re: wife has issues with glock, any ideas?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SugarBooger</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Today i took my wife to the range with me and another friend.
I brought my gen4 G17 and my buddy brought his SW 636 and SW 9mm semi. He and I were both running 115gr. Winchester white box ammunition and we were blowing through magazines left and right.

Then I got my wife to fire my pistol. She has always been leery of firearms and has only fired it once before with me. The problem is feeding issues. Every time she pulls the trigger and gets a shot off, the next round gets jammed up in the slide. Or the spent cartridge fails to eject.

I then take the firearm, clear it, reload, fire a quick string, install a new magazine, rerack the slide and hand it back to her and... same thing again. I worked with her on grip, pressing the front sight, trigger control, everything I could think of.

My friend let her fire both his revolver and semi. Her issues with the revolver were all in aiming, but with the semi, not a single issue.

Is there something I'm missing? "<span style="font-weight: bold">Limp wristing</span>"? Is that even a real thing? Sorry for the long post, and I appreciate any and all feedback. </div></div>

that's it right there her wrists are not firm enough to allow the slide to rack fully.
 
#16
Re: wife has issues with glock, any ideas?

Got it, thumbs forward. Makes sense, something we all do inherently, opposed to the fairer sex.

Next time we get a sitter, we WILL resolve this.

In the meantime, dryfire practice.

Thanks again guys, really didn't want to tell her we have to buy another firearm. When you all got solutions for that particular dilemma, I'm all ears! ... er ... eyes ... whatever, you know what I mean
 
#17
Re: wife has issues with glock, any ideas?

Had the same problem with a girl (who is a friend) that was about to return her new G19 because she thought it was defective. Sad part is that she even took handgun lessons beforehand (he's fired). Time and perfect practice will cure all.
 
#19
Re: wife has issues with glock, any ideas?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: attherange</div><div class="ubbcode-body">typical limp wristing, tell to grab the pistol with the same firm grip she has on your... you know what</div></div>

wallet?
 
#23
Re: wife has issues with glock, any ideas?

Obviously good technique should be applied. But most female and smaller statured shooters greatly benefit from some lighter springing of the pistol. The featured shooter in the video above advocates using the lightest springs your particular pistol will reliably function with. Springs are cheap try a bunch of them, they can make a huge difference in the behavior of a pistol
 
#25
Re: wife has issues with glock, any ideas?

yeah you better trade her in for a new model.
wink.gif


limp wristing ...easy call.


could always try a slightly heavier recoil spring.
 
#26
Re: wife has issues with glock, any ideas?

I like the XD sc in 9mm also, although the midsize does shoot so much softer.

Light springs aren't harmless. In time your gun will hammer itself to death with too light a spring. But for most people who aren't shooting weekly matches, your gun will last a very long time.
 
#27
Re: wife has issues with glock, any ideas?

Well I guess my STI should have "hammered" itself apart a long time ago 75,000 +rounds of major power factor ammo with a 9lb recoil spring.

I don't understand the suggestions of subcompacts either these are much harder animal to shoot especially for someone having issues with a full size gun

I also see someone suggesting a heavier recoil spring that is definitely the wrong way to go
 
#28
Re: wife has issues with glock, any ideas?

Yep, I have an idea.

She is finished with your Glock.

Swapping springs, other automatics, swapping rounds, endless "perfect" practice, dry fire (a joke for this problem) etc., and like a good number of woman will be better served by an all steel S&W J frame revolver shooting nothing more than the lightest 38s you can buy.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/AMM-348

Your done and she is happy and a boatload safer.

Simply put, you are wasting your time trying to correct this issue because the moment she really gets in a stressful situation she will go limp hand and get herself in trouble.
 
#29
Re: wife has issues with glock, any ideas?

Suggest letting your wife try something like a S&W model 10 with wadcutters. My wife will shoot everything I own,however she prefers revolvers.
 
#30
Re: wife has issues with glock, any ideas?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Simply put, you are wasting your time trying to correct this issue because the moment she really gets in a stressful situation she will go limp hand and get herself in trouble.</div></div>

I don't buy into this, unless the "limp wristing" has gotten so deeply ingrained into her shooting habits as to be irreversible through any amount of training. Given past experience, this is highly unlikely to be the case. Usually, it's a simple matter of demonstrating the improved grip technique, giving the shooter an immediate chance to utilize the new technique to see that it does indeed improve the situation, and then providing some gentle reminders prior to the next few shooting sessions.

What might very well work best is introducing a neutral 3rd party into the training. There have been several cases where my wife and I get into a bit of a struggle, and then someone else steps in and gets things straightened-out right away. There is no shame in this!
 
#31
Re: wife has issues with glock, any ideas?

We haven't had the chance to get her to the range since my OP.
I did find some good photos to show her of proper grip and will go back over those with her again prior to our next shooting session.

I am not at all opposed to involving a 3rd party and have no shame in it. That was the method used when teaching her how to ride a motorcycle. Even though I lost a little more hair on my head and those remaining turned gray, I can now comfortable get on the back of scooter with her at the helm (but, god NO, no 2-up rides at the track!)

Hopefully before the end of this month we will get her back on the range and I will report back. I firmly believe the issue is with her and not the gun, but til then, I got to get ready for a F/TR match.

Thanks again
 
#36
Re: wife has issues with glock, any ideas?

All the points have been hit, but I'll reinforce them. You're wife is limp wristing it causing the pistol to not cycle properly.
On her stance/grip, square herself up to the target. This will make you present right on target and require no manipulation or adjustment other than elevation. Lock both arms out, this serves as a solid buffer to absorb the recoil. Her weak side/support thumb should be pointing at the target, in line with the muzzle. This adds a great amount of recoil control.
2njzode.gif
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#37
Re: wife has issues with glock, any ideas?

Limp wristing Glocks was a very common problem I encountered as a LE trainer. The choices are to train her how to NOT limp wrist, or change to another firearm. Training is the better option because when trying to do rapid multiple round shooting, limp wristing becomes also becomes a recoil control issue.

If you train how to overcome limp wristing, you can eliminate both issues.

I have never observed limp wristing from people who know how to punch either a light or heavy bag. Usually, being aware of how to use the muscles and tendons in the wrist helps tremendously...but that is obvious to most guys...not so much for many women. I'm going to avoid getting into an in depth discussion of feminine and/or effeminate wrists....
 
#40
Re: wife has issues with glock, any ideas?

Glocks don't work for everyone.

I went through the same crap about 25 years ago with my first Glock. While newer to shooting then than I am now, limp-wristing might have been PART of the problem, but the grip ergonomics was just wrong for me. I started shooting a Beretta 92 (thank you Uncle Sam) and all those stovepipes, FTFs and shotgun-pattern results on target went away. Strangely, I never had that problem with 1911s, or SIG-style semi-autos, or Kahrs, or Lugers or P38s, or Steyr-Hahn or HK or CZ or a double handful of OTHER pistols either. Just Glocks.

For ME, many others I have taught over the years as an NRA-certified instructor (going on 13 years now) as well as evidence by the federal alphabet agencies, US military, and hundreds (thousands?) of police departments around the country who have dropped Glock (despite their pricing), the combination of grip size, grip angle, trigger mechanics, LIGHT frame to slide and attendant recoil dynamics, just doesn't make Glock a user-friendly firearm. Popular? Can't argue with that. Michael Jackson was "popular."

Sure, she can train to not limp-wrist the gun. Give her a Katana and about ten thousand hours of training time and she'll be able to circumcise flies, too, but practically? Take your wife to a range where she can fire a variety of different manufacturers' pistols and let her pick what she'll carry and USE.

JMHO. I don't "hate" Glocks, I just don't have any use for them. YMMV. If they work for YOU, cool, keep on shooting. Sounds to me like she might do better with another gun.
 
#41
Re: wife has issues with glock, any ideas?

I think the Glock and she are not well matched <span style="font-style: italic">for this stage of her development</span>. Cycling is an issue, limp wristing is a reality, and Glocks can be recalcitrant on this point. I like the suggestion about a revolver, and a .38 makes sense, too; but don't pamper her, train her with full strength loads. Cycling becomes a non-issue for this part of the training sequence.

Once she's developed a reasonable set of handgun handling and marksmanship skills, revisit the Glock.

At that point, everything normbal says is right on.

Greg
 
#42
Re: wife has issues with glock, any ideas?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> a .38 makes sense, too; but don't pamper her, train her with full strength loads. </div></div>

Nah, I take airsoft pistols to the range when I'm teaching women who've never shot before. I've run groups with as many as 23 women (about half as many RSOs) and there's always at least one woman for whom even a .22 LR is too loud, too "violent" for them to be comfortable. The most fun thing is having a woman who has never shot a gun before shooting full-power .357 magnum loads out of a Model 19 S&W with 2" barrel and rosewood grips (pretty gun) by the end of the weekend with an "I've GOT to buy one of these" grins on her face.

I teach from the perspective of the leftist/Marxist tool of "social norming." Systematic desensitization is the psychobabble term for this. As in Hegelian dialectic. Your end point is having her shoot a .44 magnum without flinching, you start with the lightest possible load you can. What I've found works here is .2 gm plastic pellets from a SIG 226 or Beretta 92 frame. Guns are airsoft, Japanese, around $150 each, use Freon 32, still penetrate a sheet of cardboard and function mechanically like quality guns, having most of the heft of one. If they can't get comfortable shooting those to START, I suggest therapy. As a physician I can make that judgment call and diagnosis. No extra charge.

That's one of the things about guns I think truly terrifies some people. The idea of projecting one's will at a distance. Comes from some kind of early childhood abuse at the hands of a domineering mom or dad or someone else close. Then the school system reinforces that mindset by punishing BOTH actors when one kid gets hit and the other defends him/herself. "Violence" isn't the action, it's the intent. Self-defense isn't "violence," it's a necessary survival mindset and instinct which can be suppressed and has been in many cultures, with predictable and fatal (for the good guys) results. Viz. - Chicago, NYC, DC, London, et al.

What Greg said, "I think the Glock and she are not well matched for this stage of her development" Couldn't agree more.

I'm sure if I tried a Glock again, I could MAKE it work, but I'll stick with my 1911 and SIG carry guns, they already DO work for me.
 
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