Suppressors Will suppressors be stamp free in the near future?!

[3DHUSKER]

Forgot to answer the question.

No they will never be free. We hope the process will be streamlined someday though.

With all reasons (to want one) that I hear, I am glad those retards (around KampKumbaya) will not pay the stamp fee, wait the allotted time frame or do the paperwork to get one.

 

[Crapshot]

If buying pot can become "legal" then suppressors have a fighting chance I'd bet. Maybe we should complain as much as all the doper trashballs have and we'll see progress in what should have been legal from the start. I guess the future voting majority is less likely to support unregulated suppressor ownership than unregulated marijuana.. (however the hell it's spelled) purchasing/personal use. Ha I'm not even 30 yet and I'm sounding like my grandad..

 

[msmith64]

Libs like pot they don't like suppressors and it seems the number of takers is growing while the number of producers is shrinking.

 

[3DHUSKER]

Libs like pot they don't like suppressors.

This

 

[BoilerUP]

Without straying into verboten political waters...

The hand wringing and teeth gnashing that gun mufflers cause the willfully ignorant really is pretty unbelievable.

Gun muffler.

Not silencer, not even suppressor...gun muffler. That's the term to get those who aren't into firearms, but fully understand noise pollution from trucks and automobiles and motorcycles, away from their nonsensical James Bond-driven image of what a gun muffler is and is not actually capable of doing.

 

[MagnumSecurity]

The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Too many people just lay down and do what ever the government says. That is not the way our country was founded. Some people don't know, don't care or can't be bothered to stand for what is right. It may be that they just believe in more regulation. We don't know what the rule changes will be, but it seems that they will become more restrictive. Let the door open and incrementally we lose.

 

[3DHUSKER]

The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

This also.. We as owners of firearms are lazy and when no one is perceived as actively trying to take them away we lay back and let it ride while the haters are working under raps at all times to take them away.

 

[3DHUSKER]

Without straying into verboten political waters...

The hand wringing and teeth gnashing that gun mufflers cause the willfully ignorant really is pretty unbelievable.

Gun muffler.

Not silencer, not even suppressor...gun muffler. That's the term to get those who aren't into firearms, but fully understand noise pollution from trucks and automobiles and motorcycles, away from their nonsensical James Bond-driven image of what a gun muffler is and is not actually capable of doing.

I have always said the not using a muffler was uncivilized. The problem is that the anti gun faction has brainwashed everyone into thinking that ANY thing that has to do with a weapon is bad as the weapon itself is evil. The brain washing starts in grade school and is pushed and reinforced by mainstream media.

 

[tolnep]

Without straying into verboten political waters...

The hand wringing and teeth gnashing that gun mufflers cause the willfully ignorant really is pretty unbelievable.

Gun muffler.

Not silencer, not even suppressor...gun muffler. That's the term to get those who aren't into firearms, but fully understand noise pollution from trucks and automobiles and motorcycles, away from their nonsensical James Bond-driven image of what a gun muffler is and is not actually capable of doing.

yes. a bit surprised the the EPA actually doesnt require the use of gun mufflers in many cases. if you were to demo a supersonic loaded firearm with a suppressor to even the most anti-gun person and then couch the whole argument as noise pollution issue i wouldnt be surprised that you could get them off the list. a centerfire rifle with a suppressor and supersonic ammo will still damage your hearing if left unprotected.

and this would never happen, but compromise, take suppressors off the list, increase the tax to 1000 to 2000 for whats left, open nfa registry up to new mgs, including imports of all types...

 

[3DHUSKER]

but compromise, take suppressors off the list, increase the tax to 1000 to 2000 for whats left, open nfa registry up to new mgs, including imports of all types...

WHAT?.... Better yet..... What are you smoking? You honestly cant be that big an idiot, or can you?

 

[Rustybroadhead]

It's been interesting living in New Zealand the past few years, where the attitude about suppressors among the population is "yes please, that's very considerate of you." They aren't restricted nor regulated for that reason. If you have a firearms license, you can walk into a store and buy one over the counter. Coming from the States, it's kind of a surreal experience.

Dogtown, I am curious if you ever hear of any crimes being committed with a suppressor there in NZ. I know that I haven't heard of any here. Not to say that it hasn't happened but it sure is rare!

 

[Dogtown]

Nah, the attitude here about suppressors is that it's just being considerate. There aren't a lot of shooting ranges and it's pretty common to shoot on farms, so suppressors are often recommended. In fact, I'd say the only folks who avoid them are the target rifle clubs shooting F/FTR matches. Changes to the gun laws here have often been driven by significant events like shooting sprees, just like the States, but what's different is that they seem to consult the firearms community to come up with a reasonable change in the law that everyone can more or less live with. The big shooting spree that lead to changes in the gun laws here was the Aramoana Massacre, where a guy went on a shooting spree with a suppressed .22LR and scoped Norinco of some sort in the early 90s. But instead of some all out assault weapons ban, they just created a Military Style Semi-Auto category that required a special endorsement (E-Cat). What that meant is that you'd need to have a basic firearms license (A-Cat), show a good track record of safe firearms use and involvement with the shooting sports (active member of a hunting or shooting club) with two people to vouch for your character, and you needed a proper safe installed to store the E-Cat firearms. Basically, it was the same hoops you needed more or less for handguns. And again, suppressors weren't touched.

 

[Rustybroadhead]

You are very lucky! Sure do wish there was more logic and reason in the decisions made here in the states. A few less knee jerk reactions would be nice too....
Thanks

 

[Dogtown]

Keep in mind I came from CA, so it was an interesting transition of gun laws. As much as people can be incredibly uncompromising on these issues (for good reason), it is remarkable to see a reasoned approach that doesn't outright blanket ban certain firearms but just makes it harder for someone with only a cursory interest or motivation to get to them. The result is the guys with pistols and MSSAs are serious shooters, not yokels who put on gear and blast away at the public range thinking they're the only thing standing between freedom and government tyranny. And it's just plain weird the first time you walk into a gun shop with your new firearms license, point out a Norinco M14 off the wall and a suppressor, pay for them and some ammo, throw them in your car and drive home. No form 4 and year long wait, etc.

 

[orkan]

Keep in mind I came from CA, so it was an interesting transition of gun laws. As much as people can be incredibly uncompromising on these issues (for good reason), it is remarkable to see a reasoned approach that doesn't outright blanket ban certain firearms but just makes it harder for someone with only a cursory interest or motivation to get to them. The result is the guys with pistols and MSSAs are serious shooters, not yokels who put on gear and blast away at the public range thinking they're the only thing standing between freedom and government tyranny. And it's just plain weird the first time you walk into a gun shop with your new firearms license, point out a Norinco M14 off the wall and a suppressor, pay for them and some ammo, throw them in your car and drive home. No form 4 and year long wait, etc.

You just described what America is suppose to be like.

I wonder why it isn't?

 

[Dogtown]

That answer would likely hijack this thread even further....

 

[tolnep]

WHAT?.... Better yet..... What are you smoking? You honestly cant be that big an idiot, or can you?

this is amerika, im free to be as big an idiot as the law allows.

not sure what part of the comment is 'idiotic'. its dreaming, it is. but if you could somehow convince the guberment to open the registry back up, entice them with more revenue and at the same time get all the goodies from anywhere, i dont see that as 'idiotic'. i mean if you just paid 20k for a registered m16, m4 clone and all of a sudden you could get them retail for whatever they would sell for (a good deal less than 20k ill wager) plus the tax.. then yes i could some folks as being a bit upset.

but hey, what do you expect from an idiot......

 

[3DHUSKER]

this is amerika, im free to be as big an idiot as the law allows.

not sure what part of the comment is 'idiotic'. its dreaming, it is. but if you could somehow convince the guberment to open the registry back up, entice them with more revenue and at the same time get all the goodies from anywhere, i dont see that as 'idiotic'. i mean if you just paid 20k for a registered m16, m4 clone and all of a sudden you could get them retail for whatever they would sell for (a good deal less than 20k ill wager) plus the tax.. then yes i could some folks as being a bit upset.

but hey, what do you expect from an idiot......

(Compromise)? Never. (Take cans off), sure you can dream, (pay more TAX for other items), no way, they don't care about your money, its about control. (Open nfa registry up to new mgs, including imports of all types)...? You mean the items that are on the small arms treaty they are wanting to ban? You mean MORE registration? Yes...Idiotic.

If you want to dream you should dream of no NFA registry of any kind, no tax of any kind, no import ban.

Compromise is why we are in the situation we are in now, in your "amerika".

 

[tolnep]

(Compromise)? Never. (Take cans off), sure you can dream, (pay more TAX for other items), no way, they don't care about your money, its about control. (Open nfa registry up to new mgs, including imports of all types)...? You mean the items that are on the small arms treaty they are wanting to ban? You mean MORE registration? Yes...Idiotic.

If you want to dream you should dream of no NFA registry of any kind, no tax of any kind, no import ban.

Compromise is why we are in the situation we are in now, in your "amerika".

Compromise is why we are in the situation we are in now, in your "amerika". .. i disagree. when the majority or those in control want something a certain way and you dont want it that way but they make it so anyway, thats not what i call compromise. its not like there was/is any agreement about NFA in which anyone 'compromised'. they did/still do hold the upper hand. and in such a situation about all you can do is offer 'compromises' to attempt to get something you want. thats real life, not some opinion piece on WND or a monolog from glenn beck.

 

[3DHUSKER]

Compromise is why we are in the situation we are in now, in your "amerika". .. i disagree.

You can disagree all you want but the fact is when you compromise you loose more freedom. That is why we are in the situation we are in now, in your "amerika".

Your suggested compromises are idiotic and give evidence that you do not even own an NFA item.

 

[orkan]

We've compromised enough.

 

[Dogtown]

Compromise shouldn't be the evil word that it's being made out to be these days. The problem is that it only works in a fair way when both sides are willing to compromise, not when one is absolutist and the other is flexible. That's how you get lopsided laws and that's unfortunately where we are right now in the States, with both sides approaching the issue from an inflexible absolutist position.

Using the example of where I live now in NZ, the police and public made a push for more restrictions on military style semi-autos, but instead of a blanket ban, they essentially went to the end users and asked "what restrictions would you be willing to live with?" and not "give up your evil guns!" Both parties went back and forth and in the end they compromised on a set of restrictions that required owners to have upgraded secure storage of their rifles, a proven track record of active involvement in shooting sports and the endorsement of two fellow shooters to vouch for your character. In return there are no magazine restrictions, and no barrel length or folding/collapsing stock restrictions for E-Category license holders.

To some that's giving in to the liberal agenda, but to others that's what compromise is about. Both sides gain and lose in the end and the result is considered fair. But yeah, I know that's too reasonable for a lot of people.

 

[3DHUSKER]

Compromise shouldn't be the evil word that it's being made out to be these days. The problem is that it only works in a fair way when both sides are willing to compromise, not when one is absolutist and the other is flexible. That's how you get lopsided laws and that's unfortunately where we are right now in the States, with both sides approaching the issue from an inflexible absolutist position.

Using the example of where I live now in NZ, the police and public made a push for more restrictions on military style semi-autos, but instead of a blanket ban, they essentially went to the end users and asked "what restrictions would you be willing to live with?" and not "give up your evil guns!" Both parties went back and forth and in the end they compromised on a set of restrictions that required owners to have upgraded secure storage of their rifles, a proven track record of active involvement in shooting sports and the endorsement of two fellow shooters to vouch for your character. In return there are no magazine restrictions, and no barrel length or folding/collapsing stock restrictions for E-Category license holders.

To some that's giving in to the liberal agenda, but to others that's what compromise is about. Both sides gain and lose in the end and the result is considered fair. But yeah, I know that's too reasonable for a lot of people.

Yep that is why everyone is moving to the wonderful land of NZ and nobody is moving to the USA. We want to be just like them as they are so free to do what they please. It might be better than commifornia for you, if it is please stay there we don't need your socialist logic watering down the few freedoms left in commiforia.

 

[3DHUSKER]

We've compromised enough.

Amen brother

 

[Dogtown]

Yep that is why everyone is moving to the wonderful land of NZ and nobody is moving to the USA. We want to be just like them as they are so free to do what they please. It might be better than commifornia for you, if it is please stay there we don't need your socialist logic watering down the few freedoms left in commiforia.

And this is why we can't have reasoned debate.

 

[orkan]

Compromise shouldn't be the evil word that it's being made out to be these days. The problem is that it only works in a fair way when both sides are willing to compromise, not when one is absolutist and the other is flexible. That's how you get lopsided laws and that's unfortunately where we are right now in the States, with both sides approaching the issue from an inflexible absolutist position.

What else exactly would you have gun owners give up??!?! For christs sake, we are already made out to be no better than pedophiles in political circles. We've been compromising for a hundred years. What has the other side given up? Oh wait, THEY are trying to stop us from doing what we love, while we aren't trying to stop them from doing anything other than stop them from stopping us from doing what we love.

The compromises you outlined in the above paragraph goes against everything this country was founded on. The Government is to ask the PEOPLE for permission, not the other way around.

 

[Dogtown]

I agreed with you earlier that we've compromised enough already. The problem is it's been a lopsided process for the past 40 years or so and having such an absolutist position makes us no more effective at winning the argument against the antis when in fact they outnumber us. My point, if you read it correctly, was not aimed solely at fellow shooters, but at both sides of the argument as a whole; both being unwilling to compromise and both taking absolutist stands that make it a stupid war of attrition. If you're on the outnumbered side then you will lose every single battle unless you can get the other side to compromise, which requires compromise in return. That's what diplomacy is all about, unfortunately the shooting community in the States has a way of being its own worst enemy, feeding negative stereotypes, playing right into the hand of the antis and trying to fight a battle of attrition instead of a proper chess match.

 

[orkan]

I don't believe that.

The deciding factor in who wins a war, is not which side compromises the most. The game of compromises has been lost by us ever since the first anti-gun legislation hit the books, and has become worse ever since.

 

[Dogtown]

Of course not, the only the way both sides get what they want though is through compromise. Without fair compromise, one side wins all and the other side loses all. That's how we get unreasonable and stupid gun restrictions.

ETA: the point I'm trying to make about this is if we could hit the reset button and work towards a compromise that both the public would be content with and we, as shooters, would be content with, wouldn't that be best in the long run? If you're mentally ill or have bad intentions, it's reasonable to assume that wouldn't be in your best interest versus being a law abiding citizen. And understandably, if you're an absolutist on this subject then you want 100% of your needs met and could care less about the public's needs. And sadly, that very easily describes many of the anti's point of view on this.

Now New Zealand is no utopia by any stretch (well, maybe if you're a hunter) but they've essentially gone the "both sides compromise" route with their gun laws and it has resulted in both sides generally being quite satisfied. There are restrictions, but there is a pathway to get what you want as long as you meet some basic requirements required to earn the public trust. When I described that earlier in this thread you remarked: "You just described what America is suppose to be like."

 

[Steel-W0LF]

If I demanded you give me 10, 000 dollars, would you compromise and send me 5, 000 instead?
If so I'll email you where to mail the check.

There is no compromise when one side has no buisness making the demand in the first place. The problem now is we already let that camel stick its nose under the tent 60 years ago.

 

[DoubleE]

So, what part of "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" do you FAIL to understand??????? A supressor is an accessory, like, let's say a scope, maybe scopes should be NFA????? Compromise is like a true democracy, 2 wolves and a lamb deciding what's for dinner.

 

[Dogtown]

And...nothing changes.

 

[3DHUSKER]

And...nothing changes.

Nothing should have changed from the time the constitution was written. Again... What part of "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" do you FAIL to understand?


Had to laugh at your signature. You are believing your own lies in order to feel better about your compromising and becoming more delusional with every post.

 

[3DHUSKER]

If I demanded you give me 10, 000 dollars, would you compromise and send me 5, 000 instead?
If so I'll email you where to mail the check.

I want in on this action also great one of compromise. After all this is what you said.

Of course not, the only the way both sides get what they want though is through compromise. Without fair compromise, one side wins all and the other side loses all.

Oh and don't tell me you don't have to because you do, as I do not believe you need to have that much money because it's dangerous to you and others, and above all its fair. Right? Has to be, you said it..

Insert "all gun rights" in instead of $10,000 and "gun registration" in instead of $5,000. Now see how we are the only ones giving anything up, then you MIGHT see how idiotic your position is in that first post I blasted you on. Key word MIGHT, still have hope for you but it is fading fast.

 

[MagnumSecurity]

And...nothing changes.

The only change should be from the other side. Logic like yours is why we lose incrementally. We need to take back not give.

 

[Johnny Lately]

a centerfire rifle with a suppressor and supersonic ammo will still damage your hearing if left unprotected.

Is this comment serious or am I missing something?

 

[3DHUSKER]

Is this comment serious or am I missing something?

That comment is correct. You should always wear Ear Pro.

Noise-induced hearing loss (NIHL) – this is hearing loss due to exposure to either a sudden, loud noise or exposure to loud noises for a period of time. A dangerous sound is anything that is 85 dB (sound pressure level – SPL) or higher. For every 3 dBAs over 85dBA, the permissible exposure time before possible damage can occur is cut in half. 115 db is 30 seconds permissible exposure, 130 db is .937 seconds. This is cumulative time.



http://www.dangerousdecibels.org/education/information-center/decibel-exposure-time-guidelines/

 

[orkan]

Dogtown, we already have compromised. Look what it's gotten us. Whatever we give, they say "thanks idiots" and then move to take MORE. That is what happened every single time, and is what will continue to happen if we allow it. The end result will be a complete ban.

Their requests are unreasonable, and as others have stated, they have no constitutional authority to request anything in the first place. We have spent the last hundred years compromising, and we've compromised ourselves to a point where we are never more than one election away from an outright ban on something we love.

What are we trying to take away from them? Safety? I think not. You are trying to approach these irrational emotional people from a rational and objective mindset, and that is a mistake. They are counting on people with your mindset, because that is exactly how they've won in the past.

Waiting periods aren't enough. NICS background check on every firearm sold isn't enough. ATF violating their own rules and stealing A&D books from dealers isn't enough. Not one anti-gun legislation victory for them has been enough to get them to stop pushing for more legislation. An outright ban on certain TYPES of firearms is not enough.

So if you'd have us compromise some more, what else would you have us give up? What would we get in return?

 

[SquidHC]

Lived in New Zealand for the last year. You can buy a suppressor over the counter, no questions asked, but you have to go through some crazy stuff to be allowed to buy a gun in the first place. In fact they promote suppressors because of the inherit hearing damage risk of shooting and noise pollution to the animals out in the bush.

 

[3DHUSKER]

From email i just received from NAGR about Alan Gottlieb.


“Compromise” is a dirty word here at the National Association for Gun Rights.

We’re in the business of protecting and defending your right to keep and bear arms, not cutting back-room deals to trade your Second Amendment rights away.

Last year, during the Toomey-Manchin Expanded Federal Background Check fight in Congress, NAGR made it clear there would be no compromise of your rights.

You may remember our slogan: “No Gun Control, No Deals!”

Unfortunately, the gun rights community isn’t always in lock-step when it comes to “compromise” and cutting deals.

Some of our so-called “friends” literally want to give the gun-grabbers exactly what they want.

It’s really just a preemptive surrender.

And that’s the main reason so many gun owners sense we’re always losing ground on our gun rights.

During the fight last year, Second Amendment Foundation (and CCRKBA) President Alan Gottlieb bragged that he and his staff had written the Toomey-Manchin gun control bill:

“I and our CCRKBA attorney lobbyist had a hand in influencing and writing parts of it.”

Instead of drawing a line in the sand and opposing a “compromise” of your rights like we did here at NAGR, Gottlieb looked to cut a deal.

Thankfully the grassroots pressure applied by NAGR’s more than 3.5-million members and supporters stopped Gottlieb’s bill dead in its tracks.

But he hasn't given up.

Just recently, Gottlieb was captured on video once again calling for gun owners to “compromise” and support a new expanded federal gun registration bill.

Click on the video below to watch for yourself.

Alan Gottlieb Supporting Compromise of your Second Amendment Rights - YouTube

Outrageous!

With Barack Obama and Harry Reid needing just a handful of votes to pass a gun control bill before the 2014 election, Gottlieb’s willingness to “compromise” is a danger to the Second Amendment rights of every American.

If he can convince enough Republicans in the House and Senate to go along with one of his gun control deals, you and I could be looking at the biggest victory for the gun-grabbers in nearly two decades.

That’s why you and I can’t take any chances.

Gun owners can’t go to sleep or cease to be involved in the fight to protect our rights -- we must remain vigilant, especially when the surrender monkeys start their siren cry: “we’re going to lose”.

If we draw a line in the sand and fight it out, we might lose -- but our rights are always the loser when we cut deals with the enemy.

We know what anti-gunners want -- the gutting of our Second Amendment rights by federal and state governments . . .

The more the Alan Gottliebs of the world seek to help them do that, the harder our fight will be.

 

[3DHUSKER]

Lived in New Zealand for the last year. You can buy a suppressor over the counter, no questions asked, but you have to go through some crazy stuff to be allowed to buy a gun in the first place. In fact they promote suppressors because of the inherit hearing damage risk of shooting and noise pollution to the animals out in the bush.

Noise pollution to the animals in the bush? What do they do when there is lightning and thunder? That is 120+ Db.

 

[Johnny Lately]

That comment is correct. You should always wear Ear Pro.

Noise-induced hearing loss (NIHL) – this is hearing loss due to exposure to either a sudden, loud noise or exposure to loud noises for a period of time. A dangerous sound is anything that is 85 dB (sound pressure level – SPL) or higher. For every 3 dBAs over 85dBA, the permissible exposure time before possible damage can occur is cut in half. 115 db is 30 seconds permissible exposure, 130 db is .937 seconds. This is cumulative time.



Dangerous Decibels » How Loud is Too Loud?

What cans do you have? I own YHM, Thunder Beast and Innovative Arms. They have been used on a 338 Edge, 300WM, 260 and 243. All have been very quiet; more than safe to shoot without hearing protection.

 

[3DHUSKER]

What cans do you have? I own YHM, Thunder Beast and Innovative Arms. They have been used on a 338 Edge, 300WM, 260 and 243. All have been very quiet; more than safe to shoot without hearing protection.

I have all those also and more. Supers out of those are not hearing safe. Most premium .30 caliber suppressors will reduce the report by 25-30 dB down to the 135-140 Db range. If you think that is hearing safe then you have not read the supplied material.
I do not wear EP when hunting and making 1 shot. Any other time I have EP on.

You asked, I told you and gave you reading material. What you do with it is your choice.

 

[hatidua]

In many countries

-this isn't many other countries. It's not even "other" country. It's the USA, and if you think any politician, regardless of party affiliation, is going to risk their next election by advocating the lessening of restrictions on scary silencers, I have some premium beachfront land to offer at well below market-value prices....in Kansas.

 

[tolnep]

ah me.. so absolutist in positioning.

compromise is a tool. some compromise is good, some is bad. the compromise i suggested wasnt meant to open the door to anything else, only to allow citizens once again to buy new and imported automatic weapons with the incentive to the other side, higher taxes for those stamps. that is all i was suggesting. but suggesting ANYTHING that suggests giving up ANYTHING to get ANYTHING firearms related is like waving a red flag in front of a bull.

about SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. well guess what, those in control simply ignore that part of the constitution every single day. thats the facts. its being infringed out the wazzoo at the federal level and in some states like new york and kalifornia, like crazy.

and FINALLY. i keep trying to make this point. WHO compromised in the 30s with the NFA? who compromised in new york recently, and in kalifornia? i suspect not a single gun owner COMPROMISED and the antis dont give a rats ass about what gun owners are willing to bring to the table in those states. they simply have the majority and the ability to take your constitutional rights away and do so and no court or legislative body in the country is gonna spend 1 second overturning such actions.

it is my prediction that within 2 generations what gun rights are still extant outside of new york and similar states will be gone and we will see the same level of firearms laws in nationwide as are found in places like england.