Winchester M70
- Thread starter pmclaine
- Start date
Last group was mostly X one 10.
Sights are coming off, Scope time.
Nice shooting. I can’t wait to see the scope sighted results. That rifle is shaping up to be an absolute hammer.
Last group was mostly X one 10.
Sights are coming off, Scope time.
I hope so.
Hammer it is.
The fewer shots needed to get your work done the better.
Toss up whether I shoot the scope tomorrow or pick up my new to me Remington 870......first world decisions.
Scope.... the shotgun can wait....
We been waiting about a year with you to see the scope group...
Scope... Scope... Scope... Scope...
Just say no to shotgun tomorrow. Too easy.
We been waiting about a year with you to see the scope group...
Scope... Scope... Scope... Scope...
Just say no to shotgun tomorrow. Too easy.
You will only make that wood all beautiful and pimp my gun all up.
I like the "rat" hidden gem disguise.
Nothing better than going to classes with my old man guns and being dismissed.
Class coming up on the 20th at Sig. Ill be shooting with another Hide member former USMC.
Ill bring my "Billy Baroo" M40A1ish....
Dont want to let my classmate down, and that rifle takes any question out of the misses. If it doesnt hit its on me.
When we distressed the bluing on this rifle the second (3rd?) time, it really came out incredible. It looks like it has decades of hand carry wear. I love that.
Scope installed.
Seems like most of the USMC pictures show the front mount using the forward position on the front block.
That's how I shot it last time.
If I remember right 7.2 inches between blocks is supposed to equal 1/4 MOA adjustments.
That one picture though of the Lance Corporal in the sitting/kneeling that everyone thinks is Hathcock....He has his front block on the rear position........Im thinking thats just Lance Corporal shit.
Seems like most of the USMC pictures show the front mount using the forward position on the front block.
That's how I shot it last time.
If I remember right 7.2 inches between blocks is supposed to equal 1/4 MOA adjustments.
That one picture though of the Lance Corporal in the sitting/kneeling that everyone thinks is Hathcock....He has his front block on the rear position........Im thinking thats just Lance Corporal shit.
Front position, 7.2 inches, lock em down, squeeze off some rounds.
Just so you don't feel alone in your M70 saga, I'm having to have the chamber on mine bumped back at the lands as it won't let a round chamber without pushing the bullet into the case. It's irritating but shouldn't be a big issue. Just every smith is busy as hell these days
for the record, my rifle was not built by pre64win and i dont want to give the false impression that he is in anyway responsible for my rifle's issues. and from my experience with correspondence and buying parts from the man, he is a great guy and a standup gentleman to deal with.
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Shotgun was last seen somewhere in PA with no updates on where abouts.....so I went shooting.
Rough zero from bore sight....
5 Groups of 4...
Should have stayed on the big target. The Xerox faded M40 Target wasnt as crisp as it could be.
A good start though, new barrel will tighten up till about 200 rounds.
My sights look like this....
I slipped the windage drum to "zero"
I think the red mark was my 100 yard zero when I had this scope on my M1941 1903.
What do you Unertl guys look like at 100 yard zero?
Think I should do some block swapping?
Most typical distance I can expect would be 600 yards.
I toy with the idea of taking it to 1000 though.
Rough zero from bore sight....
5 Groups of 4...
Should have stayed on the big target. The Xerox faded M40 Target wasnt as crisp as it could be.
A good start though, new barrel will tighten up till about 200 rounds.
My sights look like this....
I slipped the windage drum to "zero"
I think the red mark was my 100 yard zero when I had this scope on my M1941 1903.
What do you Unertl guys look like at 100 yard zero?
Think I should do some block swapping?
Most typical distance I can expect would be 600 yards.
I toy with the idea of taking it to 1000 though.
Groups like that on a faded target. I’d say the old girl will shoot. I can only imagine what she will do when fully broken in.
Its well within my expectations right now.
With the level of technology Im probably squeezing the most out of it my skills will allow.
The bedding looks as good as I have ever seen but Im still dealing with a hunting stock that wasnt designed for adjusting ergonomics.
My scope could probably use some ocular adjustment to darken the crosshairs, might of got a hair more focus if I loosened the parallax ring and adjusted it.
but......
If a guy bought this gun in 1952 took it home and made groups like that it would be the talk of the Flannel Wearers Club.
Its already attracted attention....today I was asked if it was the gun in Saving Private Ryan........gives me a chance to correct people and exhibit my superiority.....there is a benefit @pre64win doesnt list but he builds into his guns....
@cplnorton where are you? we want some info on that sweet hybrid stock posted up above......
Toying w/ the idea of taking it to 1000.
You will definitely be block shopping. You might want to find a two step block for the front (high step for 600, low step for 1000)... and a much higher rear. Just sayin...
I cant shoot mine to 1000 with a hundred yard zero because it puts the windage adjustment "point" below the usable centerline down the curve, almost under the scope. Gets wonky.
You will definitely be block shopping. You might want to find a two step block for the front (high step for 600, low step for 1000)... and a much higher rear. Just sayin...
I cant shoot mine to 1000 with a hundred yard zero because it puts the windage adjustment "point" below the usable centerline down the curve, almost under the scope. Gets wonky.
I took my .308 M40 to 1000 using reticle holds and dialing down to 4.5X to double the reticle off a 2 mil under 100 yard zero.
It was fun in close and though I made hits at 1000 it was a challenge.
I got three other flavors of ammo to give a try in this...my 1903/Garand reloads, some 167 Lapua Credmoor Sports stuff and some Sig 175 match.
After that I got a box of I4350/175s in varying loads to go through to see if I can reload something for this.
Few more seats at the 100 yard bench, than Ill move on to check what a 200 and 300 yard zero will be, than on to the reloads.
To be continued.
Hey sorry, I've had a busy week! lol
I will go back and look but this one I honestly don't know on. All the orders I have seen for the stocks have detailed that sling keepers be installed by WRA, and if I remember right they all classify that the larger of the two sling keepers were used. For example I can't remember off the top of my head but 1'' was standard and 1 1/4 was optional. Or something like that. I will go back and pull the orders and see if I can find a clue.
Now with that being said, there is still a lot we don't know about the Marine model 70's. For example how they claim in books the Marines only received 373 of them in 1942. This number is so far off. I can track about another 80 sold in 1942 and I think from those 80 that is where a lot of the snipers originated. Because I think they went to Quantico.
But that isn't remotely how many Model 70's they had. I have counts over of 2500 Model 70's in the 1950's. So how all the books make the claim there were only 373, yeah they are totally wrong.
There is still way more to be discovered on the Model 70 snipers. But I do know how many shipped to Vietnam. They are super rare. I won't say how many for sure just in case I do write a book and I have a habit of certain authors taking my info and publishing it as theirs. But I will say this. There were less than 75, and quite a few less than 75. So you figure I have counts of over 2500 in the 1950's and less than 75 shipped to Vietnam. So very very few were actual sniper rifles.
I will go back and look but this one I honestly don't know on. All the orders I have seen for the stocks have detailed that sling keepers be installed by WRA, and if I remember right they all classify that the larger of the two sling keepers were used. For example I can't remember off the top of my head but 1'' was standard and 1 1/4 was optional. Or something like that. I will go back and pull the orders and see if I can find a clue.
Now with that being said, there is still a lot we don't know about the Marine model 70's. For example how they claim in books the Marines only received 373 of them in 1942. This number is so far off. I can track about another 80 sold in 1942 and I think from those 80 that is where a lot of the snipers originated. Because I think they went to Quantico.
But that isn't remotely how many Model 70's they had. I have counts over of 2500 Model 70's in the 1950's. So how all the books make the claim there were only 373, yeah they are totally wrong.
There is still way more to be discovered on the Model 70 snipers. But I do know how many shipped to Vietnam. They are super rare. I won't say how many for sure just in case I do write a book and I have a habit of certain authors taking my info and publishing it as theirs. But I will say this. There were less than 75, and quite a few less than 75. So you figure I have counts of over 2500 in the 1950's and less than 75 shipped to Vietnam. So very very few were actual sniper rifles.
I went back and looked. It details they had 1 1/4'' sling swivels. This is detailed in the Marine team docs too from 1954.
So I'm not sure what this is. Like I said, we still have a lot left to learn on these.
So I'm not sure what this is. Like I said, we still have a lot left to learn on these.
Thanks @cplnorton
The swivels are about the minorest detail to install.
They were the first thing. I changed on my M70 going from 1 inch to 1.25.
Rear is a wood screw, front has a round nut.
It's interesting to know the teams actually used that hybrid style.
Doesn't mean this is one but it would be a great version to build in to.
The swivels are about the minorest detail to install.
They were the first thing. I changed on my M70 going from 1 inch to 1.25.
Rear is a wood screw, front has a round nut.
It's interesting to know the teams actually used that hybrid style.
Doesn't mean this is one but it would be a great version to build in to.
When I put the scope on mine, (the malcolm repro) I ended up using a high front block. I can measure it later if need be. I did that to be able to get out to distance with the rifle. The scope tube was fairly centered in the mount at 100. I’ve had it out to 700 and have room in the mount to get to 1k
Some load testing...
Sig Sauer 175 SMK Match
M72
168 FGMM
167 Lapua Scenar Creedmoor Sports
RTH 1800s
Shot them round robin which I hate because I tend not to group as well and I do stupid shit like shoot a Lapua Round on my FGMM target.
M72 has not impressed me in my Garand, shoots a little better in the 03 but here I was getting varying bolt closure feeling I think that resulted in varying pressure and the target results shown.
Happy about the Sig ammo. I have a class up there in a week and I plan on using their ammo which may cost me a little bit but at least it wont be burning my stockpile down.
Sig Sauer 175 SMK Match
M72
168 FGMM
167 Lapua Scenar Creedmoor Sports
RTH 1800s
Shot them round robin which I hate because I tend not to group as well and I do stupid shit like shoot a Lapua Round on my FGMM target.
M72 has not impressed me in my Garand, shoots a little better in the 03 but here I was getting varying bolt closure feeling I think that resulted in varying pressure and the target results shown.
Happy about the Sig ammo. I have a class up there in a week and I plan on using their ammo which may cost me a little bit but at least it wont be burning my stockpile down.
FGMM is always nice. I was buying 30-06 by the case at $185 shipped 1.5 years ago off a seller over on CMP ......think I got ten cases over 3-4 months time. Posted here to share my good fortune and only had one or two follow up. After the ammo shit hit the fan I had people digging up the necro thread thinking it would still be available.
Ive got ten pounds of I4350, couple cases of LRPs, and a few thousand 175 SMKs to try and figure a load.
Good call. Im set up for 30-06 now at about 3.34 OAL would be easy tobreak that sealant.
The @rth1800 ammo appears crimped have to ask if he was loading it for a semi - probably his dangerous game tiger hunting ammo - think he sent me that box gratis when I bought something else off him, its a 168/I4895 recipe.
Wish I'd have seen it. I was looking for good 30-06 at that time but hadn't wondered into vintage sniper forum much despite my 03 in the safe
Cmp reportedly has some more Creedmoor sports 167 Lapua in new Lapua brass.
Went up by $25......100 rds for $150.
I gots 800 or so rounds of .308 167 Lapua in new Lapua brass pending from them.
The Lapua rounds I shot today I note have brass primers.
Last lot of that stuff I shot had nickle. Im assuming the nickle were Fed Match primers as that first lot was exceptional.
A US Property 1941 M70 in .30 Gov't 06 showed up in the last RIA auction and I bit on it. I put in a silent bid before the auction and believe I was the only bidder - I picked it up for the opening bid price. The serial number is not documented by Chandler & Chandler, but the CMP cert that came with the rifle indicates it's one of the missing numbers. This one fits nicely between two of the Chandler documented numbers. Should be here in a couple weeks. Definitely a rack rifle, but glad to snag another part of Winchester / USMC history with this one.
Back in the day when people were treated like adults and it was assumed they were inclined to do good not bad the morale and recreation units on base held these for troops to sign out and use for recreation purposes.
I would be inclined to think this would be one of those.
There is a picture in VN though of what appears to be a heavily burdened USArmy soldier crossing a stream with a rifle in that exact configuration.
Whats with the "back cut" nose on the stock though.
Scope appears to have an M84 like sun shade but turrets look odd.
Rifle very much makes me think Weatherby.
If you zoom in on the photo, you can see the whole forend it there, it looks back cut because of how the light is hitting it
Somewhere else on the hide I saw a photo of another Marine, I believe an officer, holding a sporter M70 very similar to that rifle. The caption said he had used it to take out a VC at a very long distance
Somewhere else on the hide I saw a photo of another Marine, I believe an officer, holding a sporter M70 very similar to that rifle. The caption said he had used it to take out a VC at a very long distance
everything about that picture makes me think M70 Featherweight with the ramped blade front sight, missing the hood. down on the butt, looks like someone had fixed a black recoil pad, as it looks like its more substantial than the butt plate.
It's possibly a R700, but I love this pic. Either way, it was there because it was more accurate than most other light weapons they had available to them. You are right the scope looks very odd. I'd love to see this actual rifle in its service config - so much that's hard to definitively know 55 years later.
That rear sight looks a lot like my R700 and my dad's as well of that era. Dad's was a five digit, 1962
added: The scope to me looks more like the standard bell objectives that were starting to come out then.
Dang! I wish I would have seen this one... you would have had some competition! : )
DW
From a Google image search....
www.usmilitariaforum.com
US Sniper Rifle Recaptured from VC
This is a US Winchester 70 sniper rifle recaptured from the VC by the 101st.
www.usmilitariaforum.com
Its not a PreWar Model 70 and has the high comb stock.
@cplnorton believes the USMC to have obtained rifles post WWII.
@cplnorton believes the USMC to have obtained rifles post WWII.
This definitely looks like the one. Scope, rear sight, front ramp, everything.From a Google image search....
US Sniper Rifle Recaptured from VC
This is a US Winchester 70 sniper rifle recaptured from the VC by the 101st.
View attachment 7628986
It’s a very early post-1963 rifle. That makes sense given the period of use. I wonder what the military designation was for this rifle.
Nice score! I remember watching that auction when it sold at CMP. Here's my 2 USMC M70's:
