Winchester M70

[j-huskey]

I also went to the range today with a prewar kinda, kinda similar to Phil's device...

But I had a problem... from some 35 year old reloads from the high-power days. Glad Phil isn't seeing this with his ammo...

So.... Phil, pleeeeezzz post some good pics soon...
We waitin....

 

[pmclaine]

Holy cold weld Batman....

Started at 25 yards to make sure I was on paper before going to 100.

First shot was high by 3 inches...at 100 yards I might have been off paper using my old front sight setting. I gained a lot of adjustment. Only fired 3 shots at 25 figuring I would be close enough at 100.

My 100 yard sight in target....

The first shot was the high 12. I dicked around trying to tighten it up.....

When I felt I was good I fired up ten in two groups of five......made a small adjustment left after first five.

What my sights look like now....

 

[pmclaine]

Got home and.......

A grab Im totally jacked I was able to find....

A Lyman sight blank, Only one I have ever seen for sale. They come either 60 MOA or 100 MOA.

Gonna need the stock pad with the Unertl....

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

I had a Lyman peep sight on my black powder rifle, absolute magic.

 

[pmclaine]

I had a Lyman peep sight on my black powder rifle, absolute magic.

Nice thing is the inserts are readily available.

I used a post insert today instead of the front circle aperture last time I went out.

I usually shoot either equally well.

When I took the rear off I compared it to a WJS and noted that the other sight has a smaller rear aperture. That would have helped me today...I like small rears.

Doubt Ill ever shoot the irons again but I couldnt have the rifle without them.

Ill follow the weather....get some more warmth next week we will see how the scope performs.

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

I had a shitload of fun with that peep sight.
Mounted on a Hawken rifle.

 

[Charger442]

I have a pre-war, 4 digit serial made in 1937, modified to a USMC clone with Douglas barrel by TBA. Only thing is it still needs a d&t for the front sight block.

Anyone have a measurement from the muzzle to the front of the block or muzzle to center of the first hole? Are they 6-48 threads?

 

[pre64win]

Seeing the aperture arm come down is great, but this pic ^^ did my heart good. We knew that thing should be a shooter!

 

[Average guy]

Seeing the aperture arm come down is great, but this pic ^^ did my heart good. We knew that thing should be a shooter!

It looks like you did a fine job on this. Looking forward to a scope sighted report. Also looking forward to more of your work on here.

 

[j-huskey]

I have a pre-war, 4 digit serial made in 1937, modified to a USMC clone with Douglas barrel by TBA. Only thing is it still needs a d&t for the front sight block.

Anyone have a measurement from the muzzle to the front of the block or muzzle to center of the first hole? Are they 6-48 threads?

@pre64win

 

[Charger442]

@pre64win

I just got a rear Lyman and front block from Justin. Was going to ask him directly through email but figured since we are building an epic M70 thread here, it would be great to have the information posted

 

[pre64win]

My Van Orden has not been recrowned and measures 0.630" from the face of the muzzle to the center of the first hole. I would be surprised if there is not a bit of variation on this dimension if measured across a host of barrels, but that is at least one datapoint that should work for you.

 

[Charger442]

My Van Orden has not been recrowned and measures 0.630" from the face of the muzzle to the center of the first hole. I would be surprised if there is not a bit of variation on this dimension if measured across a host of barrels, but that is at least one datapoint that should work for you.

View attachment 7581567

6-48 thread screws correct?

 

[pre64win]

Yes. 6-48 threads.

 

[pmclaine]

@pre64win

Got to send you back the Winchester 105A site you sent me to try out. Its a great sight and will be useful on one of your other builds.

The prices on Lyman 17's range from really low to high on Ebay let me know what I owe for it. Weird....work now identifies the Pre64 Win sight as restricted for "violence" and cant access it.

Thursday is going to be in the 50s. Ill get the Unertl zeroed.

Next week we will be in the 60s and Ill do some 5 shot tests with M72, Sig Sauer 175 SMK, FGMM 168, my Garand reloads w/168 Nos CC, maybe another flavor.

I have a box of 175 SMK IMR 4350 reloads made up, looking forward to seeing if I can find a hand load for this.

 

[j-huskey]

@pre64win

Got to send you back the Winchester 105A site you sent me to try out. Its a great sight and will be useful on one of your other builds.

The prices on Lyman 17's range from really low to high on Ebay let me know what I owe for it. Weird....work now identifies the Pre64 Win sight as restricted for "violence" and cant access it.

Thursday is going to be in the 50s. Ill get the Unertl zeroed.

Next week we will be in the 60s and Ill do some 5 shot tests with M72, Sig Sauer 175 SMK, FGMM 168, my Garand reloads w/168 Nos CC, maybe another flavor.

I have a box of 175 SMK IMR 4350 reloads made up, looking forward to seeing if I can find a hand load for this.

Been shooting some original LC62 Match and breaking the tar seal by reseating the bullet a tiny tiny bit, and its shooting really good right now.
50 grains of IMR 4064 with a 168 SMK in that brass with a BR2 is super accurate.
37, 38w Shilen Select, 56w original target bbl, and 63 with the #7 Douglas xxag all love that load.

Been shooting IMR 4350 with 190's a long time. You shouldn't have any trouble finding a 175 load it likes.
Been shooting RL19 with the 175 lately. Have shot 4064, vv160, 540, and 550, and it didnt seem to matter, the 10-twist Douglas liked them all.

 

[pre64win]

@pre64win

Got to send you back the Winchester 105A site you sent me to try out. Its a great sight and will be useful on one of your other builds.

The prices on Lyman 17's range from really low to high on Ebay let me know what I owe for it. Weird....work now identifies the Pre64 Win sight as restricted for "violence" and cant access it.

Don't sweat payment for the sight / block. Just consider it part of the build. Send back whatever parts you did not use and we'll call it square.

Thanks Phil and eager to see those scoped groups!

 

[pmclaine]

Beautiful day today.....took two hours of earned personal time to zero the Unertl under windless 60 degree sunny skies....

The good.....Beautiful rifle...

Wanted to initial sight in at 25 yards....too many bodies so I went to 100. Worked on a good slow bore sight. Looked down barrel centered target, looked through scope I was two target boards right. Way more than I was expecting. Try again, still right. Try adjusting the windage I took all the right out of it I could and was still 1 foot or so away.

Removed scope, made extra sure the screw shafts were secure in their half moons.

No shots fired. Why waste the FGMM?

My suspicions are Dec 10, 2017 and shooting shotgun with my daughter may have been the worst shooting experience of my life.

In the next 45 minutes while I drive home please come up with theories how my sliding the Unertl on the mounts was done incorrectly and its not some other possibility.

 

[j-huskey]

The pictures look like.....
Do you still have my phone # ?
Call me....

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

I'm not trying to be a prick, the mount and scope look like they are biased to the right.
Beautiful rifle.

 

[pmclaine]

Maybe needs some barrel clocking.

 

[Charger442]

Oh my God. So what happened with the daughter shotgun day? I've got a barrel vice if you need it

 

[pmclaine]

Oh my God. So what happened with the daughter shotgun day? I've got a barrel vice if you need it

Go back to post one from 4 years ago......

 

[Average guy]

I’d definitely be asking some questions.

 

[j-huskey]

Bump

 

[NineHotel]

Since we are all M70 fans here, I thought you might enjoy seeing this one. 1965, first year push feed, in 308. Factory across-the-course and any-any rifle setup, ordered from WIN as a complete rifle/sights/scope combo. Best I can tell it's been to the range once or twice for zeroing, but never really shot. It's basically a new rifle, with new sights and a new 14x big tube Unertl. Clearly an evolution of the Pre-64 Marksman stocked rifles shown above. I don't know if anyone ever adopted this configuration into the Sniper ranks, though most certainly it carries all the features to have been a part of the evolution.

 

[pmclaine]

Ill be boxing it up and sending it back.

Its a major ass ache. Wish I never bought the rifle now.

Im not putting another dime into it. Last time I shipped it was $70. I kind of forgot about that expense. Justin told me to keep the front site he sent and I appreciated that gesture when I was a happy camper but now I look at it as reimbursement for my last Fed Ex bill.

Justin was quick with the contact and I believe he is actually sorry this has gone this way. He wants to make it right.

I want to see it done right too, I was hoping a positive post here would get him some work. Ill tell you truthfully I have heard horror stories of others that have been treated much worse....no communication, avoidance, basically go fuck yourself and totally shitty work. Justin is in full communication, willing to fix things and save for some important QC I would have what I asked for. I acknowledge the issues of the last year with our country being under attack and it disrupting Justins shop either through illness or restriction silliness. His area was hit hard initially with the bio attack.

Thing is I think in its present set up it could be a great shooter. I dont think I have 30 rounds through it and its grouping about an inch with irons. There is another expense....another 30 rounds of non available FGMM sighting in the irons again. I should be on paper easily this time though with the present block set up.

@pre64win you run a great company. I dont think there is finer when Pre 64 Win parts are needed. Your dynamite on the looks, bedding etc but none of that matters without function.

I will let you know when my local FFL has it coming your way.

 

[pmclaine]

I don't know if anyone ever adopted this configuration into the Sniper ranks, though most certainly it carries all the features to have been a part of the evolution.

Colonel Brophy in Korea.....

He is reported to have made some long range shots treating the Korean War as a personal safari.

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[NineHotel]

Yes - similar configuration, but pre-64 CRF.... mine is a '65 push feed.

Your bases could be trued up with some brass shim stock hidden under the bases and you could do that yourself. The only way to truly "correct" the slightly off line holes is to weld em up and redrill..... not a pretty scenario. You can't "reclock" A M70 barrel with the extractor cutout in it. Besides it would only address one set of holes if you could.

 

[pmclaine]

Yes - similar configuration, but pre-64 CRF.... mine is a '65 push feed.

Your bases could be trued up with some brass shim stock hidden under the bases and you could do that yourself. The only way to truly "correct" the slightly off line holes is to weld em up and redrill..... not a pretty scenario. You can't "reclock" A M70 barrel with the extractor cutout in it. Besides it would only address one set of holes if you could.

Good truthful response.

I will let the builder look at it.

I didn't pay for shims, didn't pay for exposed screw plugs........

Not looking to kick anyone's bag in but......if a new barrel is required I hope the next one is as good a shooter.

I am sick about this for the builder as much as myself.

 

[RTH1800]

Phil,

Very sorry about your project! I’ve had a few projects go off the rails. Ruined all the fun. My experience is that even when corrected the fun is gone. Like all of life, it’s not always fair.

You have always taken the high road on this mess and shown your character to be uniformly high in the face of undeserved adversity.

EXCELLENT JOB ON YOUR PART!

 

[j-huskey]

Yes - similar configuration, but pre-64 CRF.... mine is a '65 push feed.

I've got a 67 like your 65. It was the best factory shooting rifle I ever bought, until I got the AI-AT.

And it came out of Winchester wearing a Canjar Single Set, that's still on it today.

 

[pmclaine]

Phil,

Very sorry about your project! I’ve had a few projects go off the rails. Ruined all the fun. My experience is that even when corrected the fun is gone. Like all of life, it’s not always fair.

You have always taken the high road on this mess and shown your character to be uniformly high in the face of undeserved adversity.

EXCELLENT JOB ON YOUR PART!

Justin's a good guy. A gentleman to deal with. Im guessing he is as upset as I am.

He will make it right.

I got some sweet M72 from @NineHotel though and I'm hoping to show him some awesomeness from that old match ammo.

 

[j-huskey]

Your bases could be trued up with some brass shim stock hidden under the bases and you could do that yourself. The only way to truly "correct" the slightly off line holes is to weld em up and redrill..... not a pretty scenario. You can't "reclock" A M70 barrel with the extractor cutout in it. Besides it would only address one set of holes if you could.

Bases could be trued with steel bed and look natural.

You dont weld on a barrel. You put taller plug screws in and fill the holes, then finish them level with the barrel, and a dab of cold blue..

You can then drill the correct location base holes where the base covers the plug screw fix, within an 8th of an inch of the original length from the receiver and not affect scope function.

You can clock a pre-64 a few thousands which "can" correct a small offset. The extractor cut doesnt have to be exact or perfect as long as it's not opened more than a few thousands.

Clock the front sight mount, plug, predrill the front scope base.

Either way, a competent smith can correct this.

I would have zero problem buying Phil's barrel from him, today, and putting it in one of mine, and make the corrections I spoke of.

@pmclaine
That offer stands...

 

[pmclaine]

I prefer this barrel stay if possible.

Not looking to see anymore money, mine or Justin's, spent on this.

I can live with plugs as long as they are not visible.

I get it done, throw the scope on, shoot a half inch group, everything is back on track.

 

[BJames]

I prefer this barrel stay if possible.

Not looking to see anymore money, mine or Justin's, spent on this.

I can live with plugs as long as they are not visible.

I get it done, throw the scope on, shoot a half inch group, everything is back on track.

I don’t post much, I’m here often but more to learn and for entertainment purposes. I’ve been following this post since day 1 as I’m a huge m70 fan, and wanted to express how much I appreciate this thread and all the knowledge in here. Watching the roller coaster ride you’ve been on with this thing has been kinda gut wrenching, it’s like, what else could go wrong with this project?! Sounds like it will be made right.

Anyways, enough mushy shit, here’s my contribution. 1941 Super grade in ‘06. At least the barreled action is a super grade, have no idea where or what the stock is. The bottom metal isn’t marked “Super Grade”, either way still a nice rifle. This post has inspired me to build a Resto-Mod, Vietnam era sniper rifle but with more modern optics. Maybe a S&B pmii fixed 10.

 

[RTH1800]

How do you know that it is a super grade?

 

[pmclaine]

I don’t post much, I’m here often but more to learn and for entertainment purposes. I’ve been following this post since day 1 as I’m a huge m70 fan, and wanted to express how much I appreciate this thread and all the knowledge in here. Watching the roller coaster ride you’ve been on with this thing has been kinda gut wrenching, it’s like, what else could go wrong with this project?! Sounds like it will be made right.

Anyways, enough mushy shit, here’s my contribution. 1941 Super grade in ‘06. At least the barreled action is a super grade, have no idea where or what the stock is. The bottom metal isn’t marked “Super Grade”, either way still a nice rifle. This post has inspired me to build a Resto-Mod, Vietnam era sniper rifle but with more modern optics. Maybe a S&B pmii fixed 10.

View attachment 7590570

Im having LRI build me a "Modern Antique" based on the USMC M40 Remington idea....

Gunsmithing - Remington 700 DBM opinions from guys that put them in.....and use them.

Lots of options out there. Lots of opinions. Figured Id ask here amongst the people that install them in hopes of finding out what is preferred as far as ease of fitting and just plain works for the customer. My build is going to be a wood stocked R700 in .308. Kind of an M40esque heavy...

www.snipershide.com

They should be cutting the stock soon and Im really interested in seeing their work on that.

These wood guns shoot great but I do get hesitant to bring them out in rain or crap weather where as plastic stocks I dont care.

 

[RTH1800]

Phil,
My experience with wood stocks is that they are far more stable in wet weather than most current shooters would think. I have spent literally years of my life outside in all climates, high altitude, tropics, costal planes and deserts. Rain, humidity heat and cold. I have had no zero shift issues. I’m sure it happens but not as often as commonly believed.

 

[BJames]

How do you know that it is a super grade?

From my research, having an S cartouche on the bottom of the action was one of the identifable markings. This one has it, but with no marked bottom metal, I’m lead to believe the stock isn‘t original.

 

[RTH1800]

Those markings can indicate several things. S is often seen on .220 Swift among other things.
I have owned over 30 original Mod 70 Super Grades. None were marked in any way other than the floorplate. I have seen many standards marked with an S. I did see one once that was marked Super Grade on the barrel. It appeared original. It is doubtful your rifle was a super grade but there was little difference in the metal anyway. Some were jeweled on the bolt, some were finished a little different and they had a different front sight. Super Grade was primarily a cosmetic stock option with QD Swivels, more checkering, a cheekpiece and a black plastic for end tip.

Yours is a nice rifle.

 

[BJames]

Phil,
My experience with wood stocks is that they are far more stable in wet weather than most current shooters would think. I have spent literally years of my life outside in all climates, high altitude, tropics, costal planes and deserts. Rain, humidity heat and cold. I have had no zero shift issues. I’m sure it happens but not as often as commonly believed.

I’ve often wondered how the old guides in places like Alaska and Canada kept their weapons serviceable, before stainless saw widespread use. Had one tell me before a hunt he’d take is rifle apart, wipe the barrel channel, action inlet, etc.. with the wax from the waxed tin cloth. Old school filson type stuff. Put the rifle back to together and go, supposedly never had an issue. My limited experience hasn’t seen any issues. I’ve never read anything regarding shifts on the Vietnam (or earlier) era m70’s, or gun writers like O’Conner and Keith have ever written anything about it either. Wonder if it was a marketing thing when the gun companies started pushing the cheaper synthetic stocks?

 

[RTH1800]

There were POI issues mentioned by USMC RVN snipers. The M40A1 was developed to correct warpage as well as other issues.

 

[pmclaine]

My hangups with taking my wood in the rain are mine alone based on laziness and having options.

I just wouldnt want to deal with the after care.

If things are real wet I bring an AR and put it away wet.

 

[RTH1800]

Understand. I hang mine outside, upside down after a day spent in the rain.

 

[pmclaine]

Scheduled delivery:
Thursday, April 8, 2021 by end of day
​

IN TRANSIT​

 

[Bigfatcock]

Im having LRI build me a "Modern Antique" based on the USMC M40 Remington idea....

Gunsmithing - Remington 700 DBM opinions from guys that put them in.....and use them.

Lots of options out there. Lots of opinions. Figured Id ask here amongst the people that install them in hopes of finding out what is preferred as far as ease of fitting and just plain works for the customer. My build is going to be a wood stocked R700 in .308. Kind of an M40esque heavy...

www.snipershide.com

They should be cutting the stock soon and Im really interested in seeing their work on that.

These wood guns shoot great but I do get hesitant to bring them out in rain or crap weather where as plastic stocks I dont care.

Linseed oil finishes were good enough to survive world wars. Take them out and enjoy them!!

A good paste wax will protect the metal just fine. Old school weapons care.

 

[pmclaine]

Linseed oil finishes were good enough to survive world wars. Take them out and enjoy them!!

A good paste wax will protect the metal just fine. Old school weapons care.

 

[RTH1800]

Oil finish, oil finish?

 

[RTH1800]

Sorry for triplicate photos.