Winchester M70
- Thread starter pmclaine
- Start date
So, that gives you in the neighborhood of 4 moa (approximately at 100) in the sight itself bc those old clicks arent perfect. So.......
With a tall target.... shoot the gun. As sighted in now. But, count the moa down to the stop and see how many minutes you are playing with and need on the mount height, to get your desired setting on the sight for the stop.
Run the sight to the bottom and shoot it on the tall target and see what u playin with on the needed moa.
You may end up with the lowest mount and the lowest lyman front to get as close as you can.
My 56 had this same issue. Still not where I can do pics.
Best to you brother.
With a tall target.... shoot the gun. As sighted in now. But, count the moa down to the stop and see how many minutes you are playing with and need on the mount height, to get your desired setting on the sight for the stop.
Run the sight to the bottom and shoot it on the tall target and see what u playin with on the needed moa.
You may end up with the lowest mount and the lowest lyman front to get as close as you can.
My 56 had this same issue. Still not where I can do pics.
Best to you brother.
The lower front sight globe will give me a CH of adjustment also, very little but some.
The iron sights, once sighted in and removed, will get very little use. I just dont want to have them and have them ready to go if the desire strikes to use them.
Ill be mounting the Unertl but am considering other scope options. Being as its a rifle just to impress with its good looks and good shooting it kind of calls to have the Unertl be its only optic.
@pre64win is looking into his parts pile to see what can get that front sight as low as possible.
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Parts are sent. Custom lowered front block and two of our lowest globes (one Lyman, one Winchester).
It's okay...he was behind the lines
I called in air and the F4U dropped Napalm.....
Next up........zeroing the lower sight.....thank you @pre64win .......I will be paying you for the sights you are sending. Small business is having a hard enough time and you have taken a beating the last year or two in more ways than many.
The project took some time but you stood behind it 100 percent. I got my moneys worth and a beautiful rifle.
Watch this spot for more info.
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All the good stuff gets delivered when I am not at work......
I will be getting those sights tomorrow and will be fitting them on with intent to shoot ASAP.
@pre64win you mentioned wanting to see tighter groups.....that will come at around 200 rounds for certain, likely a lot less,....the barrel is still "seasoning".
Im not a believer in any sort of break-in procedure but I do believe it takes a certain number of rounds to form a lead and get things to settle in.
With these new sites rather than seeing how tight they will group Im kind of more interested in seeing how close my mathematics exercises were in determining how much elevation adjustment I will gain......
Right now thinking 'bouts 4MOA but with Pre64 trimming a base to the minimum maybe more.
We got a hiccup.
My new base is as low as you can go. The new Lyman 77 @pre64win shipped will appear silver soldered to the barrel.....as much possible MOA as I can get unless I file the front sight post which with the ready availability of Lyman inserts I may do that.
The fly in the ointment......block screws are a thread or two too long Im bottoming out before the base is mounted.
I have the Desk today but if the Honey Hole is open I might be able to find some shorter ones. Local hardware actually sells gun screws but I fear they are made of soft chinesium metal.
My new base is as low as you can go. The new Lyman 77 @pre64win shipped will appear silver soldered to the barrel.....as much possible MOA as I can get unless I file the front sight post which with the ready availability of Lyman inserts I may do that.
The fly in the ointment......block screws are a thread or two too long Im bottoming out before the base is mounted.
I have the Desk today but if the Honey Hole is open I might be able to find some shorter ones. Local hardware actually sells gun screws but I fear they are made of soft chinesium metal.
Very gently shorten the screws, do not buy cheap ass screws. Take off a half thread n try it... repeat.
Chuck screw head in drill. Turn screw on sandpaper until u got the length you need....
It's old school and how we used to do it...
Chuck screw head in drill. Turn screw on sandpaper until u got the length you need....
It's old school and how we used to do it...
I was thinking about that but instead of sandpaper something like a shaprpening stone.....one or two threads should do........ would hate to have a messed up job screw up barrel threads though....Id guess the screws are harder than barrel steel?
I agree with j-huskey - the screws are pretty hard and will easily strip the barrel steel. Shorten them up by 0.025” to be safe. You now have two screw sets, so tailor one set for the custom lowered base. If I had been thinking, we’d have done it before we shipped. Sorry about that. Eager to hear how close we are to getting that sight arm back down where it belongs!
Didn't get around to playing with the base screws.....too busy messing with my new to me 1967 Coleman lantern, buying that shit on EBay kicks ass.
Did make it by the Honey Hole today.....kept away from the rack of Model 70s so I wouldn't be tempted to buy that 1941 .300 Win Mag Standard......friggen beautiful rifle....told its about 20 SN away from a legit USMC gun.
I did get this though....
Smells like decades ago. $10 not bad inflation wise.
Did make it by the Honey Hole today.....kept away from the rack of Model 70s so I wouldn't be tempted to buy that 1941 .300 Win Mag Standard......friggen beautiful rifle....told its about 20 SN away from a legit USMC gun.
I did get this though....
Smells like decades ago. $10 not bad inflation wise.
Honey Hole - Looks like the Winter War
I dont know what this is but its worth every bit its price...... More Mosin.... Some beautiful Springfield, the striping on this walnut is great but the stock is merely pinned, no bolts, appears low number also, beautiful....
www.snipershide.com
My co-worker doesnt sound interested....he has his eyes set on a new Winchester/FN that they have in a blond stock,
Just as well, if he wanted a 300 win mag. If the 1941 model 70 barrel is factory and marked 300 Magnum it is chambered in 300 H&H not 300 win mag. 300 win mag was not introduced until 1963.
Co worker wants it as a possible Elk rig. He currently uses an R700 in 30-06 for his hunting purposes and wants to get a "dream rifle"...Im guessing this is the one he wants....
Different strokes for different folks.
The Honey Hole had a Pre 64 standard stock but I think he was asking stupid money for it....plus $500 if I recall.
Ill try and get by to check it out and see if he has a "best price".
I have one built by TBA that I just got my 15x Varmint Unertl mounted on. Thinking I might go with a lower power
I have a 20X on a Springfield M2...the scope shake is no joke.
On my M70 I run a 10X.....its perfect.
There are eye pieces on occasion on EBay. Wonder if one of the vintage scope shops could just change your eye piece glass to desired mag.
I have a two stocks in the shop from the original 373 USMC rifles. One is a marksman stock that has already sold and is going into a sniper build we are working on now. The other is a Low comb sporter stock with heavy original patina. A rack number is stenciled on the butt, some various stamps randomly scattered on the exterior of the stock, and the serial number stamped in the barrel channel. This latter stock also has a very large toe crack which has been repaired in our shop. It is by far the cooler of the two stocks, but may be too rough for most to be interested. Photos of both are below, with a couple additional photos of the sporter stock. At the bottom is a WWII era photo showing both styles of rifles being used side by side in training.
If you were not thinking of going with something this authentic, we have plenty of other options for you. Just let me know the details (pre-war tang & low comb, or something different?)
If the sporter stock has enough meat to open the barrel channel to a Win target taper or a 6 Douglas, I would be more than ok with it.
It's going to be a user rifle. The prewar action I'm going to use will be getting barrel #5 in its lifetime for this iteration (its it's currently a 6mm Rem in an oil finish marksman stock). I like the narrow stock sniper version better for what I'm doing with them these days. Phil's rifle signature/silhouette just called and said, do this.... bc somewhere in my checkered past I used one like that... nostalgia bites again.
I looked last night at a McMillan GP in marble walnut, and almost ordered it.
I might be better speaking with u on phone.
Work gun I carried for 17 years has a 7, and 63, in the pics shown b4 has a 7. I'm ok with them, just when u get old like me, u will like a bit less weight, just sayin..
and u ain't really that far behind me....
I think it's as low as can be.
I had to hone the bottom of the site to fit.
I had to hone the bottom of the site to fit.
It looks good, Phil. Pretty clean. Not sure if the Lyman was lower than the Winchester, but I sort of agree that the Winchester has a better more utility look to it. Good luck finding inserts for it, however. I assume that is why you went with the Lyman? Anyhow, let us know what that did for the aperture arm on your receiver sight. Close to getting it back where it belongs?
I've been lucky to find all the Winchester inserts.....people buy entire guns just to get one of the three they are missing.
The Lyman is lower than the Winchester and if need be I could lower a Lyman front sight post....I don't think I will need to.
I will look at weather toward end of week and get it out to shoot.
Get it sighted in than I will move to a scope.
Im going to send you back the unused Winchester globe once I get it all settled.
let me ask this, and this is not to stir the pot any, but just for my information.
Did the actual USMC Sniper m70s like Hathcock used have a front sight mounting block or dovetailed to drift in a sight after the Douglas barrels were installed? Did they come like that from Van Orden?
Did the actual USMC Sniper m70s like Hathcock used have a front sight mounting block or dovetailed to drift in a sight after the Douglas barrels were installed? Did they come like that from Van Orden?
The 1942 rifles had a dovetail and needed a dovetail type block. The Van Orden rifles had D&T holes for a screwed-on front block.
I have a Van Orden with original Winchester barrel and dovetailed front sight block....
I went with the Winchester Target profile barrel and dovetailed front sight block on my USMC clone... my next rifle will be the heavy Douglas barrel like @pmclaine has.
Van Orden rifles used factory target barrels. There were no cataloged target rifles made between 1951 and 1954, so a VO made in this period could conceivably have a barrel with a dovetail. Those made from 1955 onward are all made with D&T holes and no dovetail.
It’s 1955, but I wouldn’t dispute the originality of a dovetail even this late. Winchester was notoriously scattered in their cutoff points when they transitioned changes into production. The bottom of the barrel will be dated for the barrel date of manufacture. It’s conceivable Winchester sent some “clean-up” barrel inventory to Evaluators. Target rifles in the non-cataloged years of 1952-1954 have barrels both ways. I have VO SN 335339 (also 1955), a “US PROPERTY” gun, and it has a 55 dated barrel with D&T holes, which is what we’d expect to see.
This is on my bucket list of rifles... after I recoup from my Tacops, I’ll be searching for a donor rifle
I think I paid $900 for my donor with the trade in of a last ditch arisaka that was doing nothing but taking up limited safe space.
The experience of buying a gun from Cabelas was the worst ever.
I would have gladly paid the money for this rifle instead.
My rifle is a 1950s vintage with an early safety added to give it the pre war look....this rifle is legit, looks to be in better shape than what I started with.
My USMC replica started out as a pre-64 Featherweight hunting rifle (299xxx serial range - not sure what year) with a skinny barrel in 308W,
and an old Bushnell 3-9x scope. Found it local for $750 back in 2016....
...but it was subsequently re-born with a new Douglas barrel with WRA's 'medium-heavy' profile in caliber 30-06, given a satin blue finish,
...and carefully bedded in a Marksman stock. Initially had a 10X Lyman Super TargetSpot, but later got a 10X Unertl, as seen here:
(Also found a 1963 dated leather sling for it)
Used it once at a vintage Quantico Shooting Club match a few years ago, and had a nice chat with Maj. Land (ret)
about these oldie but goodie rifles. This thread makes me want to try it again this summer at another match.
...below rifle is not mine, but I recall it is a very early pre-war M70 with nice patina. While I do not remember the serial number,
it was only 4 digits long, and I was told it was first or second year production of the M70, so I think its from 1936 or 1937.
I always liked the old style caliber marking on the barrel (although I think a slightly older vintage scope would look more appropriate).
...my random post for today.
and an old Bushnell 3-9x scope. Found it local for $750 back in 2016....
...but it was subsequently re-born with a new Douglas barrel with WRA's 'medium-heavy' profile in caliber 30-06, given a satin blue finish,
...and carefully bedded in a Marksman stock. Initially had a 10X Lyman Super TargetSpot, but later got a 10X Unertl, as seen here:
(Also found a 1963 dated leather sling for it)
Used it once at a vintage Quantico Shooting Club match a few years ago, and had a nice chat with Maj. Land (ret)
about these oldie but goodie rifles. This thread makes me want to try it again this summer at another match.
...below rifle is not mine, but I recall it is a very early pre-war M70 with nice patina. While I do not remember the serial number,
it was only 4 digits long, and I was told it was first or second year production of the M70, so I think its from 1936 or 1937.
I always liked the old style caliber marking on the barrel (although I think a slightly older vintage scope would look more appropriate).
...my random post for today.
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Way back in this thread there are lots of muzzle shots with a variety of different configs.
My fave is the cigar smoking Leprechaun with two open sight mount holes.
Just left the range......it was a good day!
Pics to follow.
