Winchester Model 54

[roostercogburn98]

It was probably a 30-06 or .270. That was the rifle that introduced the .270 Winchester.

Will default to 06. Email back from the Cody Museum confirmed my guess. They don’t have any information about the 54s. It’s not even listed on their pages of firearms they research.

 

[fosberry455]

Use canned compressed air and blow off the dust and dirt on the lenses.
A fine make up brush will clean the rest and then use a camera lens cloth.
DO NOT USE 40 grit sandpaper or a shirt tail with a screwdriver or pocket knife to get in around the edges and gouge out a bit of glass..
You would not believe what "little boys with vise grips" can do to a scope and adjustments as well.
An achromat lens is made of two layers of glass glued together. One of flint glass and one of crown glass.
Glass will scratch very easily and if you can feel the scratch with a finger nail the lens is pooched.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Use canned compressed air and blow off the dust and dirt on the lenses.
A fine make up brush will clean the rest and then use a camera lens cloth.
DO NOT USE 40 grit sandpaper or a shirt tail with a screwdriver or pocket knife to get in around the edges and gouge out a bit of glass..
You would not believe what "little boys with vise grips" can do to a scope and adjustments as well.
An achromat lens is made of two layers of glass glued together. One of flint glass and one of crown glass.
Glass will scratch very easily and if you can feel the scratch with a finger nail the lens is pooched.

Muriatic acid and a dremel wire wheel was a bad idea. I should have read your post first.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Muriatic acid and a dremel wire wheel was a bad idea. I should have read your post first.

Meh... those old scopes can take it...

 

[sirhrmechanic]

 

[cplnorton]

@cplnorton

Paging for insight

I apologize. I do not know the model 54 at all. I really only study the model 70 with the association as a Marine Sniper rifle.

If this was mine, there is the Winchester Collector's forum or the Double gun Forum. Both of those forums are full of very heavy Commercial Winchester Collector's and researchers.

I would post it here.

Forum -

winchestercollector.org

Then I would also post it here. These guys specialize in custom gunsmiths.

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=7&page=1

 

[roostercogburn98]

View attachment 7846364

Where did you find rhat

 

[roostercogburn98]

I apologize. I do not know the model 54 at all. I really only study the model 70 with the association as a Marine Sniper rifle.

If this was mine, there is the Winchester Collector's forum or the Double gun Forum. Both of those forums are full of very heavy Commercial Winchester Collector's and researchers.

I would post it here.

Forum -

winchestercollector.org

Then I would also post it here. These guys specialize in custom gunsmiths.

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=7&page=1

Thanks. I have read a bunch of doublegunshop the last few days. To will keep digging though, and see what else might show up.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Where did you find rhat

It's for sale on eBay!!!

Sirhr

 

[roostercogburn98]

Very interesting indeed

 

[roostercogburn98]

Brownells shipping has gotten slow. I am still waiting on my chamber casting material to ship, it was ordered on Monday or Tuesday. If I wanted to support amazon more, I would have had that crap Thursday

 

[pmclaine]

Fuck amazon

 

[roostercogburn98]

Fuck amazon

That’s why I’m waiting patiently

 

[sandwarrior]

From what I have read, the Cody museum can’t letter the 54s due to some lost records. I am still going to send an email and see if I get lucky. The bolt face is small so it very well could have been an off caliber rifle.

They were only made from '25-'35. '36 was the beginning of the M70.

 

[roostercogburn98]

They were only made from '25-'35. '36 was the beginning of the M70.

Just a hair over 50k of them made

 

[sirhrmechanic]

That’s why I’m waiting patiently

You should have told me... I could have had you some Cerrobend for nada!!!

Let us know what show up.

This is a really cool rifle and thread. If I haven't mention that.

Sirhr

 

[roostercogburn98]

You should have told me... I could have had you some Cerrobend for nada!!!

Let us know what show up.

This is a really cool rifle and thread. If I haven't mention that.

Sirhr

All good, I can’t believe I didn’t have it already. Will come in handy later I’m sure anyway.

I’m pretty excited about the this thread as well. I have learned quite a bit

 

[roostercogburn98]

Snagged a Lyman 48 rear sight to throw on this thing. Probably not 100% correct as it is the WJS version, but it will look the part nonetheless.

Casting material should be here tomorrow so the weekend will be for truth telling and maybe some shooting if it is in fact a 22-250

 

[roostercogburn98]

Casting material showed up. Cleaned the chamber, stuffed it, and lubed it(sounds like those three events should be in a different order ). Anyway, broke off appropriate amount and added to my Red Bull can. Switched my MAP to regular propane and got busy melting. Pour went good, will wait for it to dry and have the gender reveal.

 

[roostercogburn98]

and it’s a 22-250. Will get it back together and hopefully shoot it this weekend

 

[j-huskey]

Looks more like a 250-3000 to me..

I think more likely, given the time frames.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Looks more like a 250-3000 to me..

View attachment 7850518

I think more likely, given the time frames.

I can see it vaguely as I look over case dimensions, in particular the shoulder angle. The 25-3000 has a 26 degree and the 22-250 has a 56 degree. Will do some more measurements later I guess

 

[j-huskey]

Based on everything I can find so far, and my odd mafia of folks, and as close as we can eyeball... off pics...

Without more to go on.

 

[cas6969]

^ Hmmm. .25-20 single shot is a pretty narrow case if I recall correctly.
I saw the casting and thought "It's a .219 Zipper!" (though that's probably just because he cast a perfect rim)



Electro-penciling your name and drivers license number on your guns seemed to be the thing to do in the late 1950's and through the 60's, but I'd love to know started that awful fad.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Based on everything I can find so far, and my odd mafia of folks, and as close as we can eyeball... off pics...

View attachment 7850796

Without more to go on.

So more digging is definitely in order. Shame on me for not trying it earlier, but I never actually closed the bolt on a 22-250 round. As it turns out, it will not close. I marked the case and worked the bolt a few times. You can clearly see the line on the start of the shoulder. This is not a 22-250

 

[roostercogburn98]

So digging continues. Pulled some old manuals. The Speer #9 is full of choices, but two cases have caught my eye. The 225 Winchester and the 220 Swift. I am looking for case dimensions of the 22R, none of my old books have them.

 

[j-huskey]

^ Hmmm. .25-20 single shot is a pretty narrow case if I recall correctly.
I saw the casting and thought "It's a .219 Zipper!" (though that's probably just because he cast a perfect rim)



Electro-penciling your name and drivers license number on your guns seemed to be the thing to do in the late 1950's and through the 60's, but I'd love to know started that awful fad.

In a pm, I posted about that rim, that rim is simply overflow out of the chamber patted down when casting. There is still "lost" length to the bolt face, that casting can't capture.

My thoughts on the width of that casting VS the R Lovell case are similar to yours. Without more to go on...
Texting and phone pics to old buds gets interesting.
@roostercogburn98

Please give us caliper measurements on the mouth, neck junction, shoulder, and at the end of the casting b4 the mushroom. Plz

I'm not where I can get to my old lyman book. At some point....

Where oh where is my copy of "cartridges of the world" ....

 

[roostercogburn98]

@j-huskey
Mouf- .260
Neck Junction-.262
Casting end-.473

These dimensions are exact for a 220 swift in the Nosler #3 manual

 

[roostercogburn98]

@j-huskey
22R Lovell doesn’t seem to match dimensionally

 

[j-huskey]

That .473 at the end of the casting.... should be .445 for a swift. That dead space, missing from the casting between chamber face and bolt face.

 

[roostercogburn98]

You are correct, I run the calipers around some to see if it changed. I can get .467 just below the mushroom, so too big for 220swift there. Digging through some hornady manuals now

 

[j-huskey]

Closest thing I can find is a 250/3000 necked down to 22

 

[sandwarrior]

Not a Swift by any chance or a 2R Lovell. I don't know who posted the shit in the book that j-huskey showed (no offense j-huskey, the book is WRONG) but that ain't an improved version.

The shoulder should measure .419" and the base should be around .470" (convert to metric and it's ~about~ 12mm, give or take...Damn that Paul Mauser was a smart guy).

Have you determined if the bore is .224", .243" OR .257"? Remember this case could be based off the .250-3000 (1915) or the .300 Savage (1920) which has a 30 deg. shoulder and is .062" shorter. But the .300 Savage is a .447" shoulder With the taper I see, it should be based off the .250-3000 case

 

[cas6969]

ETA: I didn't refresh the page soon enough, much too late.

 

[j-huskey]

Not a Swift by any chance or a 2R Lovell. I don't know who posted the shit in the book that j-huskey showed (no offense j-huskey, the book is WRONG) but that ain't an improved version.

The shoulder should measure .419" and the base should be around .470" (convert to metric and it's ~about~ 12mm, give or take...Damn that Paul Mauser was a smart guy).

Have you determined if the bore is .224", .243" OR .257"? Remember this case could be based off the .250-3000 (1915) or the .300 Savage (1920) which has a 30 deg. shoulder and is .062" shorter.

Link to which post, hard to keep up with this.

 

[cas6969]

.225 Winchester? .224 Donaldson Ace? .224 Clark? Hmmmmmm....

(I have no idea, I'm just flipping through the late Mr. Howell's big blue book without knowing what numbers I'm trying to compare. lol

Is .467" what I should be after?

 

[j-huskey]

.225 Winchester? .224 Donaldson Ace? .224 Clark? Hmmmmmm....

(I have no idea, I'm just flipping through the late Mr. Howell's big blue book without knowing what numbers I'm trying to compare. lol

Is .467" what I should be after?

Closest we can guess

 

[sandwarrior]

I just thought of something. What you could have is a 'short chambered' .22-250 (sorry, I didn't see the comparison of cast to .22-250). Barrels sent out, rough reamed .050" short for a cartridge. You, or your gunsmith, installs the barrel and finish chambers the barrel to fit the cartridge.

 

[j-huskey]

I just thought of something. What you could have is a 'short chambered' .22-250 (sorry, I didn't see the comparison of cast to .22-250). Barrels sent out, rough reamed .050" short for a cartridge. You, or your gunsmith, installs the barrel and finish chambers the barrel to fit the cartridge.

Not stamped " H LOVELL", wouldn't think so.

 

[cas6969]

^ I was wondering if it could be a ".22 Varminter" ( meaning a .22-250 but an earlier, non standardized chamber)

I'm not seeing things tighter in the shoulder, only slightly larger.

 

[j-huskey]

@roostercogburn98

Try WAG #2...
cut the 22-250 case off just below the shoulder. Be like a 44 automag case. Anneal the hell out of it.
Try to chamber form it in the action...
Be real curious. That would be my next thing.

Hopefully it would just start to form the bottom of the shoulder and not into the neck.

 

[roostercogburn98]

@j-huskey
Had to break to go mess with horses, will try that when I get back to the house. Got a chop saw, so will chop one and got it with the benzo torch for a few. Might get bored and cast the chamber again just to have two references

 

[roostercogburn98]

I just thought of something. What you could have is a 'short chambered' .22-250 (sorry, I didn't see the comparison of cast to .22-250). Barrels sent out, rough reamed .050" short for a cartridge. You, or your gunsmith, installs the barrel and finish chambers the barrel to fit the cartridge.

This gun was likely done in the late 30s through the early 60s I’d assume. Not sure it would have say around for that long short chambered. It has seen use for sure.

 

[cas6969]

Re-reading both pages I was thinking, before you make any changes to it, it might be worth puting it on Gunbroker to make sure some Lovell aficionado didn't want it really bad. You never know.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Re-reading both pages I was thinking, before you make any changes to it, it might be worth puting it on Gunbroker to make sure some Lovell aficionado didn't want it really bad. You never know.

It won’t get changed other than adding a Lyman 48 peep sight to the rear. Probably won’t go up for sale anytime soon either. At least not before I know what caliber it is

 

[roostercogburn98]

@j-huskey
Case cut just behind shoulder and annealed till it cried momma. You can just barely see the shoulder starting to roll

 

[j-huskey]

That gives you more measurements to work with.
Base to shoulder.
Base diameter.
Shoulder diameter.
Shoulder diameter on the casting.
Along with the other casting measurements.

Might get closer to knowing what it is.

 

[roostercogburn98]

That gives you more measurements to work with.
Base to shoulder.
Base diameter.
Shoulder diameter.
Shoulder diameter on the casting.
Along with the other casting measurements.

Might get closer to knowing what it is.

Getting close measurements to a 225 Winchester with that method you referred to. Head to shoulder measurement is 1.53 which is exact for that caliber. All other dimensions are fairly close or exact.

 

[j-huskey]

Time to find a 225 Winchester cartridge and see if it fits.
Where oh where 225 win Cartridges....

 

[roostercogburn98]

Time to find a 225 Winchester cartridge and see if it fits.
Where oh where 225 win Cartridges....

Sent an email to a guy on GB that has some older cartridges for sale. There is also an auction for a handful that might end up mine