Winchester Model 54

[roostercogburn98]

Local gun show today led me to these. They may work to size brass close enough to fire form. Talked with an older gentleman who has dies for 22 varminter as well. Hopefully one will turn out

 

[j-huskey]

More ! More !
Please...

 

[sandwarrior]

Local gun show today led me to these. They may work to size brass close enough to fire form. Talked with an older gentleman who has dies for 22 varminter as well. Hopefully one will turn out View attachment 7860050

Did you go to your gunsmith and see what he say's the cartridge actually is?

 

[roostercogburn98]

Did you go to your gunsmith and see what he say's the cartridge actually is?

Don’t have a cartridge yet. Just the rough formed one from super annealing and closing the bolt. I was hoping this set of dies would work, but they are too long and don’t touch the neck of my 250 savage or 22-250 brass. One of the old guys I talked to today said that could be a possibility since some of the reamers made back in the day didn’t all match up.

 

[RTH1800]

Bedding is the old Acuraglass. Trigger is M70 conversion. Nice old rifle.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Bedding is the old Acuraglass. Trigger is M70 conversion. Nice old rifle.

Hopefully soon I’ll have an definitive for caliber. Waiting on reply from some people for info at C4HD.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Update on digging. Talked to the owner of the shop I bought it from. He said they were on consignment for a guy who took a bunch of rifles in on trade. He said the guy(seller) didn’t have a clue about any of them and just wanted to recoup his money. He seemed just as interested as the rest of the group when I talked to him some yesterday

 

[RTH1800]

I had a 1936 two digit SN mod 70. It was originally a 220 Swift Super Grade. Had been re barreled several times as a PD rifle..22 Varmiter. ‘30s to early 60’s era.
It was not the standard 22/250 but was close. Smiths made up their own reamers in those days.

 

[roostercogburn98]

I had a 1936 two digit SN mod 70. It was originally a 220 Swift Super Grade. Had been re barreled several times as a PD rifle..22 Varmiter. ‘30s to early 60’s era.
It was not the standard 22/250 but was close. Smiths made up their own reamers in those days.

Different shoulder angles on most back in those days from what I have read. 22-250 made one common angle

 

[RTH1800]

That is correct. It was neck length and shoulder angle changes.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

May have stumbled into a Model 54 today. Who knows any about them. I know what I have read online so far. Seems to have been rebarreled so I gotta find out caliber, but I was told 22-250. It’s a monster of a barrel and has “Lovell” stamped on it. Serial number is 40452A IIRC, which should put it manufactured in 1933. I know those was the predecessor to the model 70 in some design aspects. What’s the collective knowledge here on these. Pics to follow when I get back home

Twenty Two Caliber Varmint Rifles HC Book Landis 1947 Copyright 529 P - Books at GunBroker.com : 938234804

Buy Twenty Two Caliber Varmint Rifles HC Book Landis 1947 Copyright 529 P: GunBroker is the largest seller of Books Books, Videos & Literature All: 938234804

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This book just popped up. Early history of .22 Varminters. Dirt cheap. Might be a worthy addition to the research or library!

Cheers, Sirhr

 

[RTH1800]

All the Landis books are both informative and entertaining. HUNTING WITH THE .22 is one of my favorites.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Twenty Two Caliber Varmint Rifles HC Book Landis 1947 Copyright 529 P - Books at GunBroker.com : 938234804

Buy Twenty Two Caliber Varmint Rifles HC Book Landis 1947 Copyright 529 P: GunBroker is the largest seller of Books Books, Videos & Literature All: 938234804

www.gunbroker.com

This book just popped up. Early history of .22 Varminters. Dirt cheap. Might be a worthy addition to the research or library!

Cheers, Sirhr

Put some bidding on it, will keep my eye for sure. Thanks for the heads up.

Meant to update a few days ago. The reply I got from C4HD said if it was a 22 varminter,a 22-250 case would chamber easily. Still waiting on reply as to what they think since the 250 case didn’t chamber easy.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Put some bidding on it, will keep my eye for sure. Thanks for the heads up.

Meant to update a few days ago. The reply I got from C4HD said if it was a 22 varminter,a 22-250 case would chamber easily. Still waiting on reply as to what they think since the 250 case didn’t chamber easy.

Varmint by Landis - AbeBooks

Twenty-Two Caliber Varmint Rifles (The Firearms Classics Library) by Charles Landis and a great selection of related books, art and collectibles available now at AbeBooks.com.

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If you get sniped these copies are not as 'early' and cool, but are good reference an not bank breaking.

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[Flowman33]

Congrats on acquiring an important milestone in Winchester history. I'm a big fan of the modern M70 and the 30-06 cartridge so a Model 54 like yours is quite fascinating to me.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Congrats on acquiring an important milestone in Winchester history. I'm a big fan of the modern M70 and the 30-06 cartridge so a Model 54 like yours is quite fascinating to me.

Thanks. It’s a neat piece for sure. Hopefully soon, I’ll get it figured all the way out and get a chance to shoot it

 

[roostercogburn98]

Varmint by Landis - AbeBooks

Twenty-Two Caliber Varmint Rifles (The Firearms Classics Library) by Charles Landis and a great selection of related books, art and collectibles available now at AbeBooks.com.

www.abebooks.com

If you get sniped these copies are not as 'early' and cool, but are good reference an not bank breaking.

Cheers,

Sirhr

Won that auction for 10 bucks!

 

[sandwarrior]

Won that auction for 10 bucks!

did you ever find out exactly what cartridge you have in that rifle?

 

[roostercogburn98]

did you ever find out exactly what cartridge you have in that rifle?

Not yet. The dig continues for exactly what it will be

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Won that auction for 10 bucks!

Well you stole that! Early copy first edition like that... outstanding!

Can't wait to hear if it reveals anything new. Glad you got it!

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[roostercogburn98]

Great find, congrats!

Thanks

 

[roostercogburn98]

I am the third generation owner of a circa-1935 Win Model 54. I own several other rifles and the Mod 54 is, hands down, the most accurate of the bunch. Caliber is 30-06. Barrel length is 22-inches. Mine is no longer "factory original"...20+ years ago on an elk hunt the rifle was in a scabbard when the horse decided to rub against a tree...I obtained a replacement stock from the old Fajan company.. Many years ago I decided to mount a scope and had the bolt handle turned down to accommodate the scope bell...still required high rings but the rifle is a shooter. I do reload and do not exceed 2,700 fps with 150 grain bullets considering its age this is mid-range velocity. As JBelk notes, I have experienced a trigger problem and am in the process of replacing the original trigger assembly. The rifle with scope, sling and loaded weights out at about 10 pounds so it is not a light weight but a very steady hold.

I have great hopes for this rifle once the caliber is figured out for sure. Something tells me it will be a fun and accurate shooter. There are a few guns in my safe that speak to me when I hold them. This one has secrets it wants to let out, I just have to find its language

 

[roostercogburn98]

So the book is going to be interesting for sure. It has a whole chapter dedicated to Hervey Lovell and his lineup of 12(yes 12) wildcats. I will start with that chapter I believe.

 

[j-huskey]

Hurry.
Inquiring minds want to know !!!!!

 

[roostercogburn98]

Looking to see if some of the other pros might step in and help. I was just reading a thread about a Model 70 where @Frank Green was talking some.

I’m atill not convinced the book will lead me to the caliber. There are only a few that have the case dimensions as my cast. I want to start leaning back towards a 22-250 with some early version of the shoulder angle. Funny thing is this, I took one of the cases I super annealed and closed in the chamber, and primed it. I could not get the firing pin to ignite the primer.

 

[j-huskey]

Do you know how to check firing pin protrusion on that bolt ?

 

[roostercogburn98]

Do you know how to check firing pin protrusion on that bolt ?

Will make some time to get out this week and check it out

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Looking to see if some of the other pros might step in and help. I was just reading a thread about a Model 70 where @Frank Green was talking some.

I’m atill not convinced the book will lead me to the caliber. There are only a few that have the case dimensions as my cast. I want to start leaning back towards a 22-250 with some early version of the shoulder angle. Funny thing is this, I took one of the cases I super annealed and closed in the chamber, and primed it. I could not get the firing pin to ignite the primer.

So did book lead you to any cool new knowledge? Had to be something in a whole chapter on that builder!!!

 

[roostercogburn98]

So did book lead you to any cool new knowledge? Had to be something in a whole chapter on that builder!!!

So far it has me leaning towards 22-250 with early steeper shoulder angle. I did learn where most of Mr. Lovell’s barrels probably came from though. The book has tons of interesting information and facts, it doesn’t go super in depth for the calibers though. I have been reading bits and pieces over again to see if anything new comes out to me. So far nothing though.

I still need to get out to the shop and check firing pin protrusion

 

[roostercogburn98]

Do you know how to check firing pin protrusion on that bolt ?

Looks to be .042-.045 ish

 

[j-huskey]

Looks to be .042-.045 ish

Do you have another m70 to compare the 54 to ?

 

[roostercogburn98]

Do you have another m70 to compare the 54 to ?

Unfortunately no. The only other Winchester I own is an 1885 low wall

 

[roostercogburn98]

So I decided to play around some. Filed the rough edges of the chamber cast so it would chamber and the bolt close. I pulled the trigger and there is an indent of the firing pin on the tail of the chamber cast. I played around with seating depth on a couple of primers in the super annealed case and I could get a faint light strike with a proud primer. Unfortunately, it just pushed the primer down and would not ignite it after that.

 

[j-huskey]

So I decided to play around some. Filed the rough edges of the chamber cast so it would chamber and the bolt close. I pulled the trigger and there is an indent of the firing pin on the tail of the chamber cast. I played around with seating depth on a couple of primers in the super annealed case and I could get a faint light strike with a proud primer. Unfortunately, it just pushed the primer down and would not ignite it after that.

That "sounds" like excess headspace on that brass... except I know what you went through to create that brass... shouldn't be excess headspace.
Without something to compare, bc I can't remember what firing pin protrusion "should" be, the next thing to look at would be how tight to the bolt does the extractor hold it.
Bc there is one scary thing... Bolt lug setback. If that has happened, the high spot cam over point will create excess headspace once the bolt seats.

Just a thought. At this point. I'd probably let a very competent gunsmith set the barrel back and rechamber it with a std 22-250 reamer. Just sayin.
When they take the barrel out, they could see if there was bolt lug setback.
My .02 agin...

That way, it would be safe to shoot, and close enough to original intention as well. Still a neat historical piece.

 

[roostercogburn98]

That "sounds" like excess headspace on that brass... except I know what you went through to create that brass... shouldn't be excess headspace.
Without something to compare, bc I can't remember what firing pin protrusion "should" be, the next thing to look at would be how tight to the bolt does the extractor hold it.
Bc there is one scary thing... Bolt lug setback. If that has happened, the high spot cam over point will create excess headspace once the bolt seats.

Just a thought. At this point. I'd probably let a very competent gunsmith set the barrel back and rechamber it with a std 22-250 reamer. Just sayin.
When they take the barrel out, they could see if there was bolt lug setback.
My .02 agin...

That way, it would be safe to shoot, and close enough to original intention as well. Still a neat historical piece.

Only issue I would have with doing a barrel setback would be the chance of messing up the H. Lovell stamp on the barrel. There isn’t much room to play with in that direction

 

[j-huskey]

Rgr

 

[roostercogburn98]

Ok so had some measurements made on the case. Here is what I got back, gotta dig through some books and see if anything matches or comes close

 

[roostercogburn98]

Sooooooooooo, let’s circle back around to this blaster. I got bored the other night and pulled a bullet from a 22-250 case, stuffed it into the “magazine” and closed the bolt. Left me dumbfounded cause the bolt closed on a 22-250 case where it had not before. So I repeated it and got the same results, two smashed primers and no hard to close bolt. Funny thing is if you just drop the round into the chamber, the bolt is very hard close though.

Fast forward to today, took a few 50g JHP bullets to the backyard blasting place. First trigger pull was a pucker factor of 2 million. Fired about 10 rounds through it today and it shot like a champ. I walked it into a rough zero and then stepped back to 50 yards. Zero is a tad high but should be close at 100, I will get there this week maybe if the weather cooperates.


A smooth shooting rifle and the trigger isn’t just absolutely atrocious. I believe the barrel has plenty of life left. I’ll dig the modified case up soon and check it out some more.

 

[j-huskey]

Sooooooooooo, let’s circle back around to this blaster. I got bored the other night and pulled a bullet from a 22-250 case, stuffed it into the “magazine” and closed the bolt.

Left me dumbfounded cause the bolt closed on a 22-250 case where it had not before.

So I repeated it and got the same results, two smashed primers and no hard to close bolt.

Funny thing is if you just drop the round into the chamber, the bolt is very hard close

I’ll dig the modified case up soon and check it out some more.


HELLO....

Bubba....
Big DUH....
a control round feed rifle.... is SUPPOSED to feed smooth from magazine....

And hard-ish when u drop a shell in chamber and FORCE the extractor to jump the rim....
Unless the extractor is modded for such, it's NOT INTENDED to be loaded that way....
Bubba.....

 

[Charger442]

First trigger pull was a pucker factor of 2 million

what does this mean?

 

[roostercogburn98]

Bubba....
Big DUH....
a control round feed rifle.... is SUPPOSED to feed smooth from magazine....

And hard-ish when u drop a shell in chamber and FORCE the extractor to jump the rim....
Unless the extractor is modded for such, it's NOT INTENDED to be loaded that way....
Bubba.....

I am legally retarded

 

[roostercogburn98]

what does this mean?

Means I was hoping the old gun didn’t blow up

 

[roostercogburn98]

Unless the extractor is modded for such, it's NOT INTENDED to be loaded that way..

In all fairness I’m surprised this rifle hasn’t been modified that way. It already has a model 70 trigger from what was posted up earlier in this thread iirc.

 

[RTH1800]

The mod weakens the extractor. Contrary to popular belief, the M70 extractor is far less sturdy than the m98 Mauser.

 

[roostercogburn98]

The mod weakens the extractor. Contrary to popular belief, the M70 extractor is far less sturdy than the m97

Thank you for that tidbit. Everything helps with me and these rifles

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Winning!

My pucker factor would have been pretty high, too! I'd have probably tied to a tire!

Good on ya man! Congrats!!

Cheers!

Sirhr