Precision Rifle Gear Without warning muzzle brake test

[Gil P.]

What do you think about this?

There's a section of the video where he's testing the brakes with video through the scope so you can see the effect each brake has on the recoil impulse.

The shooter is kind of all over the place though. Reticle jumping right, left, sometimes straight up. It looks like a bunch of bs. The brake wouldn't change the direction the muzzle moves during recoil unless he had them screwed on weird.

 

[kthomas]

You have to take any comparative testing done by a company that makes one of the products with a grain of salt.

The TMB is a nice looking brake that seems well designed, and people that have them seem to really like them. I have no doubt they are effective brakes.

Most of the popular brakes on the market these days perform very well, they are all pretty effective at mitigating recoil. Choose the one that ticks the most boxes for you.

 

[Gil P.]

You have to take any comparative testing done by a company that makes one of the products with a grain of salt.

The TMB is a nice looking brake that seems well designed, and people that have them seem to really like them. I have no doubt they are effective brakes.

Most of the popular brakes on the market these days perform very well, they are all pretty effective at mitigating recoil. Choose the one that ticks the most boxes for you.

Lately I've been eyeing that gen 2 Insite Heathen. They say the shooter doesn't get blasted as much.

 

[Danrobberg]

Lately I've been eyeing that gen 2 Insite Heathen. They say the shooter doesn't get blasted as much.

I ordered one a few weeks ago still waiting on shipping information. It was down to the insite or this one. I think they all do a good job at the high end levels probably wouldn’t notice a big enough difference between one and the other.

 

[96C]

What do you think about this?

There's a section of the video where he's testing the brakes with video through the scope so you can see the effect each brake has on the recoil impulse.

The shooter is kind of all over the place though. Reticle jumping right, left, sometimes straight up. It looks like a bunch of bs. The brake wouldn't change the direction the muzzle moves during recoil unless he had them screwed on weird.

I am the shooter running the AT-X rifle with the Tremor reticle, standing, firing from the barricade with a game changer only.

Full disclosure:
I am not associated financially with Without Warning although he is one of my very good friends and I am proud to see him succeed and see his products thrive in the industry internationally. I have been shooting TMB's in the Australian national PRS series since they first became available and now won't be looking elsewhere, they are excellent.

We worked our way through each of the brakes, firing them as we went, trying to capture footage in that environment. Being that it was clearly not a science laboratory, using robots, in a controlled atmosphere, we were dealing with variables like my body position potentially shifting from shot to shot slightly, wind conditions over time, varying muscle induced pressure on the system / support bag etc. it was hard to try and replicate each shot over an hour of us doing it as I'm sure you can appreciate. However, that being said - I was personally as interested in the outcome as you are, as a paying customer. There was no silly business from my end.

One thing about BJ (the designer), he is serious about making a good product and I believe he has absolutely done that.

I have always shot factory Hornady match ammo in my 6.5 and 6mm Creedmoor barrels, the Tuner was enticing... Even though I have still never really gotten down and dirty with tuning it as such, as soon as the additional weight ended up on the muzzle, the barrels settled down even more with the harmonic dampening taking place, like a suppressor.

I have switched the Area419 Sidewinders off all my match barrels in favour of the TMB's and have another one on order.


As friends here, my input is simply my own, read it however you like. If you ever get the opportunity to try a TMB on the range, you should see for yourself how effective they are at managing recoil.

 

[Sleeman]

It looks to me like the first shooter experiences consistent movement of the reticle under recoil in one direction, and the second shooter then has different, but consistent movement under recoil. This is most likely due to their individual rifle, calibre and position.

I RO’d a two day match where there were a significant number of TMB’s on the line. I was curious to see if they live up to the hype as I had only just installed a new Area419 Match brake on my rifle.

From my experience standing next to them all weekend, I didn’t notice any more muzzle blast compared to any of the other effective brakes being used (not measured in any way, just my observations)

I’ll be ordering one soon.

 

[Gil P.]

I am the shooter running the AT-X rifle with the Tremor reticle, standing, firing from the barricade with a game changer only.

Full disclosure:
I am not associated financially with Without Warning although he is one of my very good friends and I am proud to see him succeed and see his products thrive in the industry internationally. I have been shooting TMB's in the Australian national PRS series since they first became available and now won't be looking elsewhere, they are excellent.

We worked our way through each of the brakes, firing them as we went, trying to capture footage in that environment. Being that it was clearly not a science laboratory, using robots, in a controlled atmosphere, we were dealing with variables like my body position potentially shifting from shot to shot slightly, wind conditions over time, varying muscle induced pressure on the system / support bag etc. it was hard to try and replicate each shot over an hour of us doing it as I'm sure you can appreciate. However, that being said - I was personally as interested in the outcome as you are, as a paying customer. There was no silly business from my end.

One thing about BJ (the designer), he is serious about making a good product and I believe he has absolutely done that.

I have always shot factory Hornady match ammo in my 6.5 and 6mm Creedmoor barrels, the Tuner was enticing... Even though I have still never really gotten down and dirty with tuning it as such, as soon as the additional weight ended up on the muzzle, the barrels settled down even more with the harmonic dampening taking place, like a suppressor.

I have switched the Area419 Sidewinders off all my match barrels in favour of the TMB's and have another one on order.


As friends here, my input is simply my own, read it however you like. If you ever get the opportunity to try a TMB on the range, you should see for yourself how effective they are at managing recoil.

View attachment 8032782

The way you tested how much the rifle comes off target between the brakes was not good. All it shows is how inconsistent the shooter is.

I don't doubt it's a good brake, but your video only conclusively shows that it reduces recoil more than the other brakes.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

We have tested ourselves and found out we are the winner.....

 

[Alabusa]

I haven't tried all the brakes listed but out of the ones I have tried, Terminator, Hellfire, little and fat bastard, in shears terms of recoil mitigation, none are better than the TTerminator Brakes. This is just my limited opinion and I have no affiliation of any kind with any of the brands nor people that work for or are friends with owners, designers or shooters.

 

[96C]

I haven't tried all the brakes listed but out of the ones I have tried, Terminator, Hellfire, little and fat bastard, in shears terms of recoil mitigation, none are better than the TTerminator Brakes. This is just my limited opinion and I have no affiliation of any kind with any of the brands nor people that work for or are friends with owners, designers or shooters.

Terminator brakes are excellent, especially now they have self timing options. They are common here on most hunting rifles. T2 and T3’s.

 

[96C]

We have tested ourselves and found out we are the winner.....

It could easily be read like that, but the sled videos are pretty clear, the aim was to remove human induced factors. This video was focused around recoil reduction, not tuning.

It’s best to see who’s running TMB’s and how they are performing internationally and to try get behind one personally.

I still own and use other brakes and have no issues with any brands. There are lots of good options available these days.

 

[kthomas]

It could easily be read like that, but the sled videos are pretty clear, the aim was to remove human induced factors. This video was focused around recoil reduction, not tuning.

It’s best to see who’s running TMB’s and how they are performing internationally and to try get behind one personally.

I still own and use other brakes and have no issues with any brands. There are lots of good options available these days.

I like the sled test, though there are ways to make that impartial if they wanted to (not saying they did).

Who runs them doesn't really carry much water with me. Brakes are very simple things, and most work very well. There's a bit of a "follow the herd" mentality in PRS, just because certain shooters are using any one piece of equipment doesn't mean its better than other pieces of equipment.

None of this is to criticize the TMB by the way. It looks like a well designed product that works well as a muzzle brake.

 

[rydah]

What do you think about this?

There's a section of the video where he's testing the brakes with video through the scope so you can see the effect each brake has on the recoil impulse.

The shooter is kind of all over the place though. Reticle jumping right, left, sometimes straight up. It looks like a bunch of bs. The brake wouldn't change the direction the muzzle moves during recoil unless he had them screwed on weird.

Have you ever shot a prs rifle single bagged off of a barricade before? Lead a lone filmed it?

All of birchys shots look the same (typical of his holding the front of the bag technique, up and to the left because his shoulders are a bit bladed like everyone that does that) and every single one of my shots goes straight up (which is my emphasis on square shoulders and going over the top of the scope to not blade my shoulders). Where the reticle goes from there simply depends on my body position and balance at that time. We are not perfect creatures and every shot can’t possibly be the same. To try and make out like there’s a significantly better but still reasonable way to conduct that test and you’re in possession of the way to do it, while I’m just a hack and manipulating results, is absurd. Go conduct your own test and do better.
I’ll be happy to critique your work.

I’ve never had a single pro shooter shoot a tmb and not say it wasn’t the best brake they’ve ever used as far as recoil reduction and muzzle rise reduction is concerned. Blast is more than pretty much everything else on the market but everything has give and take. You can’t have one and not the other. So no it’s not perfect but it’s the best as far as recoil reduction/muzzle rise is concerned.

 

[Sprayed99]

I have a few of them, wont shoot anything else.

 

[jthor]

Best brake on the market hands down.

Having shot the ace, hellfire, EC Tuner brake and it beats them all.

Talk to anyone running them and they’ll tell you the same. It’s all I’m going to run now and I need to replace my training rifle 308s brake with one

 

[jthor]

Lately I've been eyeing that gen 2 Insite Heathen. They say the shooter doesn't get blasted as much.

Will confirm. The tuner at the back of the brake really does prevent the concussion of the brake from hitting the shooter

 

[Rexwagon]

If you cannot tell the difference between brakes shooting a rifle off a prop with different companies brakes, then you simply do not shoot enough. Every single brake reacts differently. The experience level on this forum shows. You spend enough time behind a gun, you will see that brakes are all not the same. If your serious about competition, you will take any advantage you can get. Example: APA lil bastard/fat bastard or a TMB. If your not, get the heathen. You probably don’t shoot enough to notice a difference.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Then why are the top 5 PRS shooters all shooting a different brake/can?

If one brake was an actual advantage over the others...when guys are winning the series by a fraction of a point, they would be running it.

 

[Rexwagon]

Some people are willing to give up some advantages to get benefits in other areas. Like back blast. A straight cut brake is significantly less concussive vs the others and also offers less in recoil management.

Even the Jtac guys have stated this with their own ACE brake design. Compromise.

They like what they like. Some don’t like to change. Etc etc.

 

[jthor]

Then why are the top 5 PRS shooters all shooting a different brake/can?

If one brake was an actual advantage over the others...when guys are winning the series by a fraction of a point, they would be running it.

Morgun King, and Austin Buschman use one just to name a few small name pros lol

 

[kthomas]

If you cannot tell the difference between brakes shooting a rifle off a prop with different companies brakes, then you simply do not shoot enough. Every single brake reacts differently. The experience level on this forum shows. You spend enough time behind a gun, you will see that brakes are all not the same. If your serious about competition, you will take any advantage you can get. Example: APA lil bastard/fat bastard or a TMB. If your not, get the heathen. You probably don’t shoot enough to notice a difference.

The difference is fairly marginal between most great brakes.

I haven't tried the TMB, full disclosure there. But I have a collection of most of the popular self-timing brakes on the market. There's a difference, but I would classify it as marginal at best.

If that marginal difference is what you want to have an edge on your competitor, then have at it.

 

[Sprayed99]

Morgun King, and Austin Buschman use one just to name a few small name pros lol

Buschman runs an ACE

 

[Patty]

The best brake on the market is the one that YOU shoot the best and enjoy the most.

For some guys that’s all out recoil reduction with little regard to blast on the shooter.

For some guys is the exact opposite.

Developing a preference comes through shooting thousands of rounds and trying different brakes. You will know what you want in a brake eventually, and it may be totally different than what someone else wants.

What I can tell you is BJ is a solid dude, not a snake oil salesman, so wether or not his brake is the one for you, you can be assured that you’re getting a quality product made by a guy that cares about making a quality product.

 

[Gil P.]

Have you ever shot a prs rifle single bagged off of a barricade before? Lead a lone filmed it?

All of birchys shots look the same (typical of his holding the front of the bag technique, up and to the left because his shoulders are a bit bladed like everyone that does that) and every single one of my shots goes straight up (which is my emphasis on square shoulders and going over the top of the scope to not blade my shoulders). Where the reticle goes from there simply depends on my body position and balance at that time. We are not perfect creatures and every shot can’t possibly be the same. To try and make out like there’s a significantly better but still reasonable way to conduct that test and you’re in possession of the way to do it, while I’m just a hack and manipulating results, is absurd. Go conduct your own test and do better.
I’ll be happy to critique your work.

I’ve never had a single pro shooter shoot a tmb and not say it wasn’t the best brake they’ve ever used as far as recoil reduction and muzzle rise reduction is concerned. Blast is more than pretty much everything else on the market but everything has give and take. You can’t have one and not the other. So no it’s not perfect but it’s the best as far as recoil reduction/muzzle rise is concerned.

You should have shot it prone and had your friend change the brakes while you stayed in position behind the rifle. It doesn't take a genius to figure that one out.

Why don't you help your friend with his technique?

 

[Patty]

You should have shot it prone and had your friend change the brakes while you stayed in position behind the rifle. It doesn't take a genius to figure that one out.

Why don't you help your friend with his technique?

Rifles recoil very differently prone. It’s being supported in two places, so you’re not going to see all of a brakes characteristics compared to shooting off a bag. Total rearward recoil reduction is not the only function at play.

But you’re right, it does not take a genius. Just experience.

 

[Gil P.]

Rifles recoil very differently prone. It’s being supported in two places, so you’re not going to see all of a brakes characteristics compared to shooting off a bag. Total rearward recoil reduction is not the only function at play.

But you’re right, it does not take a genius. Just experience.

Rifles recoil the same no matter what position you're in. Your body position influences where the recoil goes. I'm sure you know that, and I'm not trying to talk down to you.

The testers fucked up because they introduced too many variables into their test.

If all the shots were done prone, they results would have been more consistent and less dramatic. Any problem with their position would have shown up consistently from shot to shot as long as the shooter didn't change his position.

 

[Patty]

Rifles recoil the same no matter what position you're in. Your body position influences where the recoil goes. I'm sure you know that, and I'm not trying to talk down to you.

The testers fucked up because they introduced too many variables into their test.

If all the shots were done prone, they results would have been more consistent and less dramatic. Any problem with their position would have shown up consistently from shot to shot as long as the shooter didn't change his position.

I think you’re wanting the test to be much more scientific than it was. The reality is, no practical use of rifles is going to be with constants there will always be variables. If you don’t like the effort they made to show what a product does, and I really don’t know what else you’d expect as very few in the market are even showing any sort of tests at all. Pick one up and test it yourself.

Like I said before, none of this stuff is gonna show you what’s important to you anyway. That’s for you to decide.

 

[jthor]

Go buy one, compare to others yourself, and be done with it.

 

[96C]

@Gil P.
OK... Let's just agree that the problem with this test is my inability to shoot like a perfectly still, mechanical robot with reinforced titanium arms, hydraulics and a gyroscopically stabilised core, in a vaccum, with NASA spec ammunition that has an SD of 0.

It is important to also note that the barricade is at fault for not being made of concrete and having some element of flex, it was promptly dismantled and destroyed.

Mother nature was also reprimanded, being in trouble for changing the wind and lighting conditions on us.

Hornady was also sent a nasty email for making ammunition that wasn't perfectly consistent.

Lastly, I have no idea how to control recoil, shooting the same shot for an hour with numerous muzzle brakes, disrupting the position as we reset the muzzle brakes between tests, dealing with changing mirage and wind conditions, while shooting standing off a wooden barricade, using one bag with no rear support... Sorry I couldn't hold it that little bit tighter for you brother. I dontated $1 to the girl guides as an act of good faith.

Clearly, this is all bullshit and the test was absolutely rigged!


Didn't think showing people what they wanted to see (actual through the scope footage of the numerous brakes being fired, by a PRS shooter, standing, off a barricade) would be a hot topic... It's what people froth over.

If we weren't 8,150 miles apart, I'd happily lend you one of my brakes.

 

[Gil P.]

@Gil P.
OK... Let's just agree that the problem with this test is my inability to shoot like a perfectly still, mechanical robot with reinforced titanium arms, hydraulics and a gyroscopically stabilised core, in a vaccum, with NASA spec ammunition that has an SD of 0.

It is important to also note that the barricade is at fault for not being made of concrete and having some element of flex, it was promptly dismantled and destroyed.

Mother nature was also reprimanded, being in trouble for changing the wind and lighting conditions on us.

Hornady was also sent a nasty email for making ammunition that wasn't perfectly consistent.

Lastly, I have no idea how to control recoil, shooting the same shot for an hour with numerous muzzle brakes, disrupting the position as we reset the muzzle brakes between tests, dealing with changing mirage and wind conditions, while shooting standing off a wooden barricade, using one bag with no rear support... Sorry I couldn't hold it that little bit tighter for you brother. I dontated $1 to the girl guides as an act of good faith.

Clearly, this is all bullshit and the test was absolutely rigged!


Didn't think showing people what they wanted to see (actual through the scope footage of the numerous brakes being fired, by a PRS shooter, standing, off a barricade) would be a hot topic... It's what people froth over.

If we weren't 8,150 miles apart, I'd happily lend you one of my brakes.

Nobody said you had to be a robot. The solution to the inconsistent recoil management is shooting prone. It would have removed a lot of variables from the test. Even if your recoil management was poor in the prone, it would have likely been more consistent giving us better information.

Being a PRS shooter doesn't mean shit. But it is a lot better than being your average YouTube homo who says everything they use is great.

 

[Sprayed99]

This thread is interesting, shows a lot about peoples character.

Fyi the G2 Heathen is cool looking, but if you snag that weight pulling your rifle out of a bus window, steel prop port, or any other of the numerous things that tend to get smacked by muzzles you could have a problem on your hands.

 

[kthomas]

This thread is interesting, shows a lot about peoples character.

Fyi the G2 Heathen is cool looking, but if you snag that weight pulling your rifle out of a bus window, steel prop port, or any other of the numerous things that tend to get smacked by muzzles you could have a problem on your hands.

The tuner on the G2 Heathen has a smaller footprint than other tuners, such as the TMB.

But I personally wouldn't recommend running a tuner if snagging is a concern anyways.

 

[jthor]

Buschman runs an ACE

You’re correct, thought he did for some reason. I could have swore I saw him running one though.

 

[Sprayed99]

The tuner on the G2 Heathen has a smaller footprint than other tuners, such as the TMB.

But I personally wouldn't recommend running a tuner if snagging is a concern anyways.

Location and the way it locks in place is the concern. You pull your rifle from a prop and catch the edge of that brass weight and it moving would be a rough situation if it opens up the cone of accuracy.

The tmb and ats tuners lock in place with set screws. I have beaten them up on plenty of things and they don't move.

 

[NodakBarbarian]

I have a TMB. I didn’t notice any increase in muzzle blast at the shooter compared to the ACE that I ran last year. TMB had less recoil and muzzle rise as well. @Gil P. you’re too hung up on that test man, chill the F out

 

[Gil P.]

I have a TMB. I didn’t notice any increase in muzzle blast at the shooter compared to the ACE that I ran last year. TMB had less recoil and muzzle rise as well. @Gil P. you’re too hung up on that test man, chill the F out

Yeah I know. I have taken some time to reflect on this. The truth is that I'm just not happy in my own life and for some reason felt the need to complain about a test done over 8000 miles away.

They are just muzzle brakes and there is no reason to get worked up over them.

 

[kthomas]

Location and the way it locks in place is the concern. You pull your rifle from a prop and catch the edge of that brass weight and it moving would be a rough situation if it opens up the cone of accuracy.

The tmb and ats tuners lock in place with set screws. I have beaten them up on plenty of things and they don't move.

It uses the same locking mechanism - set screws.

I would think a giant 360° collar around a barrel would be more prone to getting hung up on things then a small rectangular object on one side of a brake/barrel. There's a lot more surface area with something like the TMB to get caught up then a G2 Heathen.

 

[Sprayed99]

It uses the same locking mechanism - set screws.

I would think a giant 360° collar around a barrel would be more prone to getting hung up on things then a small rectangular object on one side of a brake/barrel. There's a lot more surface area with something like the TMB to get caught up then a G2 Heathen.

I do see your point, however, both the tmb and ats are moved by turning and are threaded. The Heathen is a sliding weight. The set screws are the only “lock” keeping it from being adjusted. I’m just expressing my own observation of what they designed. Obviously you disagree… one of the beauties of our “semi” free country.

 

[kthomas]

I do see your point, however, both the tmb and ats are moved by turning and are threaded. The Heathen is a sliding weight. The set screws are the only “lock” keeping it from being adjusted. I’m just expressing my own observation of what they designed. Obviously you disagree… one of the beauties of our “semi” free country.

I can see how the weight moving could be a concern with the Heathen.

However, they all use the same locking mechanism. I'm not a fan of set screws, or tuners for that matter.

I think the principles behind tuners are not well grounded and understood, and I think relying on a device that changes POI with a set screw is eventually asking for trouble.

Doesn't matter if it's the TMB or the Heathen.

 

[Sprayed99]

I can see how the weight moving could be a concern with the Heathen.

However, they all use the same locking mechanism. I'm not a fan of set screws, or tuners for that matter.

I think the principles behind tuners are not well grounded and understood, and I think relying on a device that changes POI with a set screw is eventually asking for trouble.

Doesn't matter if it's the TMB or the Heathen.

Fair enough

 

[rydah]

It uses the same locking mechanism - set screws.

I would think a giant 360° collar around a barrel would be more prone to getting hung up on things then a small rectangular object on one side of a brake/barrel. There's a lot more surface area with something like the TMB to get caught up then a G2 Heathen.

Every tuner with set screws on the market uses opposing set screws screwed onto a curved surface. Friction holds them in place, there’s very little contact area and they can and do move from external forces. Screw them in until you strip them, they can and will still move. I get emails and dm’s from guys always telling me how the tuner they had moved and they want the tmb because it actually locks in place.

The tmb has cut outs in the jam nut that the set screws screw into. The only way that tuner is moving is if you sheer both set screws. The double sheer strength of the 8-32 set screws in the tmb are around 200 lbs. Ain’t nobody moving that tuner from hitting it on things. At matches I’ve seen dudes take chunks out of barricades and the tmb just laugh at them.

The tmb isn’t ‘just the first self timing tuner muzzle brake’ that was made. It has enormous amounts of engineering that went into it and if people take the time to read what went into it and why, it’s very clear very quickly how much more advanced it is that everything else on the market.

 

[kthomas]

Every tuner with set screws on the market uses opposing set screws screwed onto a curved surface. Friction holds them in place, there’s very little contact area and they can and do move from external forces. Screw them in until you strip them, they can and will still move. I get emails and dm’s from guys always telling me how the tuner they had moved and they want the tmb because it actually locks in place.

The tmb has cut outs in the jam nut that the set screws screw into. The only way that tuner is moving is if you sheer both set screws. The double sheer strength of the 8-32 set screws in the tmb are around 200 lbs. Ain’t nobody moving that tuner from hitting it on things. At matches I’ve seen dudes take chunks out of barricades and the tmb just laugh at them.

The tmb isn’t ‘just the first self timing tuner muzzle brake’ that was made. It has enormous amounts of engineering that went into it and if people take the time to read what went into it and why, it’s very clear very quickly how much more advanced it is that everything else on the market.

View attachment 8033734

That's a smart design.

 

[jthor]

The EC Tuner brake v2 uses a spring to hold the tuner in place vs set screws. The previous design did use a set screw with a nylon tip. EC Tuner photo added just to show the spring.

 

[Pete B]

Are people winning matches, based on their choice of brake? Nope
Are some brakes better than others? Yup, impossible not to be.....
Honestly don't understand where the debat in all this is......
Every other custom action etc falls into the same category, buy what you want and enjoy getting out to shoot!

 

[sab567]

Removed

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

I'll just drop that here.



TMB wasn't part of the testing as they declined participating in this third party neutral analysis. All the props for testing are still ready for a second video, wich I'm trying to put my hands on a TMB.

In my opinion, a company that claim being better than any other brand based on a test only them did so far, doesn't mean a lot. I don't think they are bad brake, I am sure they performs really well looking at the design, but we will have to test it to know it.

Awesome video. We chatted for a while at frontline a few weeks ago. Nice shooting man.

 

[sab567]

Awesome video. We chatted for a while at frontline a few weeks ago. Nice shooting man.

Great, I don't really know hide's nickname vs who people are yet, but I had a really good time there, really nice people

 

[rydah]

I'll just drop that here.



TMB wasn't part of the testing as they declined participating in this third party neutral analysis. All the props for testing are still ready for a second video, wich I'm trying to put my hands on a TMB.

In my opinion, a company that claim being better than any other brand based on a test only them did so far, doesn't mean a lot. I don't think they are bad brake, I am sure they performs really well looking at the design, but we will have to test it to know it.

What are you trying to achieve by posting your test here that didn’t feature the tmb and with a statement like that?

Bait me into giving you one for your next test? Because that isn’t going to happen.
I declined you for good reason and all you’re doing claiming my test aren’t legitimate but yours are and you’re an authority on the matter is just giving me more reasons to decline you again in the future. While also showing you’re not third party neutral and just making your test results invalid based on that alone.

As for your testing method, you want the rifle being used to be as light as possible for a number of reasons. The biggest reason being weight is what removes the most amount of recoil from the rifle. The then left over recoil, is then removed by the brake. It’s not a good representation of the performance of a muzzle brake and skews results significantly. For example a 6lb 308 rifle will give you a much better representation of what the brake is actually doing and give you better separation between them because the brake will only be able to remove around 30-40% of the recoil. That’s how these companies claim up to 60-70% of recoil reduced by their brake. Because it’s with a fully loaded rifle. While it’s really only around 30-35% of the recoil reduced by the brake. Especially since the theoretical limit of a muzzle brake is about 80% reduction in recoil and these tiny 1 inch diameter, 3 inch long 4-5 port brakes companies are making are no where near the limit of what a muzzle brake is actually capable of. That’s a hilarious statement. When we start seeing 1.25-1.375 inch diameter, 4-5 inch long 5 port brakes that are 3D printed and look more like silencers then sure we will be nearing those 60-70% performance figures but right now, we’re a long way away from that.
I’d also recommend two cartridges with different muzzle pressures and volumes of gas. A 6 br and 6.5 creedmoor for example would give you a good but still relevant spread for people to see how the brakes designs perform on a variety of cartridges.

Also the rest of your testing metrics are pretty pointless. You’d be better off just shooting them and letting people see what it’s like to shoot them with different people, different setups and different techniques. Muzzle rise is created by the user and affected by the rifles setup and technique and to try and measure, recreate or rate a brake on how well it does in a fictional and irrelevant test is just messy and meaningless. The less recoil you have the less muzzle rise you have and whatever muzzle rise you do have is easier to control when you have less recoil. There’s no way to showcase that in a test and you’re just wasting your time trying to.

 

[Raufoss]

I'll just drop that here.



TMB wasn't part of the testing as they declined participating in this third party neutral analysis. All the props for testing are still ready for a second video, wich I'm trying to put my hands on a TMB.

In my opinion, a company that claim being better than any other brand based on a test only them did so far, doesn't mean a lot. I don't think they are bad brake, I am sure they performs really well looking at the design, but we will have to test it to know it.

Honestly your opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.

If you watched the Strike without Warning video you will notice that your results are virtually identical...a great waste of time.

Review your test protocol because you don’t bring anything new to the table.

A video that just has bad English...terrible. It’s virtually you talking us to death.
I'd say I wouldn't have minded if you didn't look like a narcissist who thinks he has something more than everyone else.

Have some respect for people and stop making assumptions about other people's intentions when they don’t want to work with you.

 

[sab567]

What are you trying to achieve by posting your test here that didn’t feature the tmb and with a statement like that?

Bait me into giving you one for your next test? Because that isn’t going to happen.
I declined you for good reason and all you’re doing claiming my test aren’t legitimate but yours are and you’re an authority on the matter is just giving me more reasons to decline you again in the future. While also showing you’re not third party neutral and just making your test results invalid based on that alone.

As for your testing method, you want the rifle being used to be as light as possible for a number of reasons. The biggest reason being weight is what removes the most amount of recoil from the rifle. The then left over recoil, is then removed by the brake. It’s not a good representation of the performance of a muzzle brake and skews results significantly. For example a 6lb 308 rifle will give you a much better representation of what the brake is actually doing and give you better separation between them because the brake will only be able to remove around 30-40% of the recoil. That’s how these companies claim up to 60-70% of recoil reduced by their brake. Because it’s with a fully loaded rifle. While it’s really only around 30-35% of the recoil reduced by the brake. Especially since the theoretical limit of a muzzle brake is about 80% reduction in recoil and these tiny 1 inch diameter, 3 inch long 4-5 port brakes companies are making are no where near the limit of what a muzzle brake is actually capable of. That’s a hilarious statement. When we start seeing 1.25-1.375 inch diameter, 4-5 inch long 5 port brakes that are 3D printed and look more like silencers then sure we will be nearing those 60-70% performance figures but right now, we’re a long way away from that.
I’d also recommend two cartridges with different muzzle pressures and volumes of gas. A 6 br and 6.5 creedmoor for example would give you a good but still relevant spread for people to see how the brakes designs perform on a variety of cartridges.

Also the rest of your testing metrics are pretty pointless. You’d be better off just shooting them and letting people see what it’s like to shoot them with different people, different setups and different techniques. Muzzle rise is created by the user and affected by the rifles setup and technique and to try and measure, recreate or rate a brake on how well it does in a fictional and irrelevant test is just messy and meaningless. The less recoil you have the less muzzle rise you have and whatever muzzle rise you do have is easier to control when you have less recoil. There’s no way to showcase that in a test and you’re just wasting your time trying to.

You are right, I removed my post, and I owe you some appologize, my statement was off the chart. I'll send you a message not making that public, and I do understand you have a lot of order to fullfill before having any interest in "giving" brakes away. Do not worry, I was going to get one by myself for the testing, not asking you again.

On the second note, you are right about recoil and rifle weight, but as I said, it's a PRS MB test, and so I wanted a 100% PRS setup, same weight and configuration, even knowing difference would be harder to see and would put all the top performers close to the other. The recoil movement % reduction did not reflect an absolute % reduction number, it was more to get a scaled recoil reduction to be able to compare them. Rifle weight, cartridge, and more, will affect this % as you said, and so this number is just for comparison, not absolute performance.

Caliber (powder weight) is a huge factor, we ran out of time and just did 1 testing bench with an other caliber, was planning to do all the same test, so I didn't published the results yet, it will be in a second video while I'll have all the data, comparing different case size and how it affect the work of the MB. ie, best performer with creedmoor might not be the best performers with br size case. It will be interesting to see.

On the muzzle rise, I have to disagree with you, I don't think it is pointless, there is a difference between MB and compensator, that aim for something different, and our "MB" are sometime more of a comp, and there is a huge difference with the jump movement. Here is a quick explanation of this point: https://kahntrol.com/index.php/2016...kInWndeLKtYGU80E4H8YQtHGFXndgKRW1BpEf15HNHCys
I do agree that if you get really low recoil, the muzzle won't be moving much either way, and we saw that on the testing. You'll also be more able to mitigate it by yourself. But, there is some brake that have a lot of recoil felt, but no muzzle movement, just seeing for example the Insite. It shows in testing, and I had the exact same feeling when shooting it for myself.
At the end of the day, and I stated it in my video, the results are for viewer interpretation. Someone shooting free-recoil will not necessary want the same MB as someone loading his rifle, and this is on the shooter to decide what they prefer.