World record 600 yd. 5 shot group. 0.349"

[tickled pink]

Here is something for you paper punchers to strive for. 0.349"



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[nuclear_shooter]

Why is this in the semi auto forum?

 

[corym468]

I'm just not impressed by this. How does anything he did to get this group carry over away from the bench?

 

[the once-ler]

That is benchrest where you are more of a technician than a true to the bone shooter. Shoot that prone or even off a sandbag and I will bow at your feet.

 

[Raven34]

If he shot that prone he wouldn't be able to breath.

 

[wareagle700]

I think some are missing the point. Its not about the shooter, its the equipment.

 

[corym468]

I think some are missing the point. Its not about the shooter, its the equipment.

Exactly why I'm not impressed!

 

[Ledzep]

I could do better with my 6.5 Grendel if I cut the barrel down to 12.5 inches.

 

[hessian]

Precision Shooting magazine went tits up 'cause nobody gives a shit about bug hole shooting anymore. Me included.

 

[jasonfaz]

I could do better with my 6.5 Grendel if I cut the barrel down to 12.5 inches.

HAHAHA! I know brotha, those fuckers right there will do it all...

 

[502Chevelle]

Wonder how he would do shooting off "the boat" at Woody's.

 

[MAT4-82]

I'm just not impressed by this. How does anything he did to get this group carry over away from the bench?

Because he crafted ammunition and a rifle that will shoot .058 min!
95% of the improvements in rifles and ammo accuracy-wise came from guys like this.
No, he's not a TAC shooter like you but you would not have the capabilities you do today were it not for the rifle geeks.
Give credit where it is due!

 

[LRRPF52]

There is a laundry list of developments that have been pioneered by the Bench Rest guys, that trickle down to practical shooters.

The 1 MOA threshold for consistent accuracy was a pretty impressive feat back in the day with bolt guns, but now people think their AR15's are garbage if they're not getting consistent 1 MOA performance with every group from a mixmaster frankenbortion with gun show parts and internet special sales, where they spent maybe $600-$700 on the rifle.

We can thank the BR folks for taking accurate rifle shooting capabilities to higher levels incrementally. BR doesn't appeal to me personally, just like I'm not a big shotgun guy either. I'm more than happy to learn from them both and apply aspects of what they do to what I do if it works.

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

I commend the guy. Regardless of the equipment he used, it still took lots of skill on his end whether it was reloading or controlling his breathing, he shot well.

 

[MLC]

Precision Shooting magazine went tits up 'cause nobody gives a shit about bug hole shooting anymore. Me included.

I'm going out on a limb and by saying that a whole lot less esoteric printed media has gone tits up because the internet, not lack of interest.
It was a loss to the community when you look at the quality of the shooting related magazines that still exist.

 

[The Punisher]

and what's really sucks just after that match his rifle was stolen....but he is a real nice person and doesn't mind sharing info. Learned a lot of reloading info during the last shoot I attended.

 

[corym468]

and what's really sucks just after that match his rifle was stolen....but he is a real nice person and doesn't mind sharing info. Learned a lot of reloading info during the last shoot I attended.

That does suck and I'm sorry to hear it! I'm not saying bench rest is useless by any stretch of the imagination.

To me this record is like Barry Bonds Home Run record. Was he a skilled athlete, baseball player? God yes. Would he have broken the record of 61 HRs without HGH? Hell no! To me both records should have an asterisk by them.

 

[tickled pink]

I used to bench rest shoot at 100 & 200 yds. and usually got my butt kicked. Then I got bored and started to shoot for score at 100 & 200 yds. Our rifles were so accurate that we would only shoot one shot at each of 5 targets on one sheet. At 100 yds we attempted to hit a 1/16" dot on each of 5 targets. At 200 yds. we shot at 1/8" dot on each of the 5 targets. I only shot 5 perfect hits on the 100 yd. target once and the same on the 200 yd. targets. Then A buddy asked me to try at 1,000 yds. I never looked back at the short range stuff. The second time I shot in competition at 1,000 yds we shot 3 five shot groups. I shot a 11.25" group then a 10.25" and then a 8.125" group. All the groups were in the center of the target. I placed 3rd. over all and came in first for score. The best 5 shot group I have shot at 1,000 yds. was a 3.25" group. I always got beaten though. Those guys really know how to shoot and have very expensive rifles. All different types of shooting is a learning experience. I wouldn't knock any type. Oh, I have even shot High Power. You can do a lot of things over the years when you are working on 70 years.

Open this up to see the target that Ed Sanders shot at 400 yds in competition. .327" group. I'd say his scope was dead nuts!!!! Read Post #5 on down.

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=814745

 

[tickled pink]

I used to think I was a good shot until I took the 3 day coarse with the Army shooting team at Ft. Benning Georgia. Boy do you learn how to shoot out to 600 yds. using only peep sights. They even hook up a laser beam to the end of your barrel so you can see how your barrel moves while aiming. The biggest thing I learned was how to aim moving the sight in a sideways figure eight. You learn how to consistently take head shots off hand at 200 yds. A lot of guys won't believe this, but most of us could keep 20 shots in that size groups.

 

[MAT4-82]

That does suck and I'm sorry to hear it! I'm not saying bench rest is useless by any stretch of the imagination.

To me this record is like Barry Bonds Home Run record. Was he a skilled athlete, baseball player? God yes. Would he have broken the record of 61 HRs without HGH? Hell no! To me both records should have an asterisk by them.

Respectfully, I don't see the correlation in your example.
Bonds artificially enhanced his physical ability and it resulted in his breaking a record which was intended to be based on pure natural capability.
This guy set a record within the rules.
Also this record is viewed by most folks as a measure of technical achievement , not one of physical accomplishment.
Just saying

 

[blackfoot]

I'm just not impressed by this. How does anything he did to get this group carry over away from the bench?

How does anything a drag racer or a Baja racer do carry over to the street? It doesn't except for technical development which we all benefit from, just like benchrest. Not all benchrest guys are one discipline shooters although there seem to be a lot of assumptions here that this is all they can do. Just about every rifle part, scope, brass quality, powder development, loading technique, etc in today's precision rifle shooting came about in large part from the developments and demands of benchrest shooters since the 50's and maybe earlier. I think we need to respect all shooting disciplines for what they are and what they contribute.

Maybe you should ask Walt Berger how anything he did in his years of benchrest shooting carried over away from the bench.

 

[Bill Larson]

Exactly why I'm not impressed!

Although BR does`nt seem to be your cup of tea.......why belittle the man who shot a national record....?????...How many have you shot....???...prone,off sandbags or offhand....????...before making statements like you have...... why don`t you go try it and see how hard it is....??
bill larson

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

though BR isn't my cup of tea, you still have to give him credit - 600Y, there's still wind / mirage out there to compensate for, .349"

it's sad that many folks in the populous knock any shooting sport and firearms in general, even sadder when shooters knock other disciplines. somewhere an anti laughs and gains ground when we eat our own.

like BR or not, does it really matter? - congrats to Rodney Wagner and the achievement made in that discipline.

 

[sea2summit]

Because he crafted ammunition and a rifle that will shoot .058 min!
95% of the improvements in rifles and ammo accuracy-wise came from guys like this.
No, he's not a TAC shooter like you but you would not have the capabilities you do today were it not for the rifle geeks.
Give credit where it is due!

I've been seeing some targets pop up from a semi manufacturer with test targets in the .05 min range...even a few better. It is amazing no matter what your shooting off of, in my mind, to have consistency shoot that well.

 

[wildcats]

Because he crafted ammunition and a rifle that will shoot .058 min!
95% of the improvements in rifles and ammo accuracy-wise came from guys like this.
No, he's not a TAC shooter like you but you would not have the capabilities you do today were it not for the rifle geeks.
Give credit where it is due!

+1, Amen

 

[Flat Tire]

That is benchrest where you are more of a technician than a true to the bone shooter. Shoot that prone or even off a sandbag and I will bow at your feet.

I think they call it F-Class. Same guns, same rests but different sequence in pulling the trigger. Having each shot scored and the target getting pulled up and down for twenty shots is a different game. I think F-Class is more of a shooters game.

 

[wareagle700]

Not really, F-Class is just belly benchrest. It's for the benchrest guys that are still able to get up after laying on the ground. I find steel matches and UKD targets much more challenging and fun.

 

[Flat Tire]

Not really, F-Class is just belly benchrest. It's for the benchrest guys that are still able to get up after laying on the ground. I find steel matches and UKD targets much more challenging and fun.

No, they are more different then just laying down or sitting. Benchrest can be 5 or 10 shots fired as fast as you can and F-Class can be 105 - 125 shots for record. Different games and not just belly benchrest. You know nothing about the two.

 

[wareagle700]

No, they are more different then just laying down or sitting. Benchrest can be 5 or 10 shots fired as fast as you can and F-Class can be 105 - 125 shots for record. Different games and not just belly benchrest. You know nothing about the two.

Lol, ok.

For those that cant detect sarcasm, my description of F-class was a not meant to be taken seriously.

 

[Flat Tire]

Lol, ok.

For those that cant detect sarcasm, my description of F-class was a not meant to be taken seriously.

LOL, the guys who think they are badasses when they shoot steel don't want to shoot with the F-Class guys and the F-Class guys don't want to shoot with the benchrest guys.

 

[sandwarrior]

Respectfully, I don't see the correlation in your example.
Bonds artificially enhanced his physical ability and it resulted in his breaking a record which was intended to be based on pure natural capability.
This guy set a record within the rules.
Also this record is viewed by most folks as a measure of technical achievement , not one of physical accomplishment.
Just saying

I'd have to disagree, as much as I appreciate your point of view and previous posts on the matter. Shooting a group that size, equipment not withstanding, is a pretty amazing skill achievement. Sometimes even going over the top with equipment is not a guarantee you will do well. On days when wind and mirage are always changing, it's a tough challenge to still call it and shoot it. Granted, prone or even rested on a sandbag prone makes it harder physically. Offhand even more so.

But, one of the biggest contributions to shooting from the benchrest crowd, aside from how to super-accurize a rifle, is seeing how to call 'conditions'. A lot of newer shooters find it difficult to attempt to master marksmanship position skills along with wind and mirage reading. Too many beginning shooters look at all the factors and rather than seeing them together and adjusting (down to where it becomes second nature with advanced shooters), they simply get overwhelmed. Bench rest takes the physical out of the equation and allows the shooter to decide, under no physical stress, how to call the shot. What is a 10 or an X at short range is a hit or a miss at long range. Translated to the battlefield and precision shooters there, those little factors that can be trained into the mind before the harder part of physically mastering the rifle is a good lead in I think.

All this being said, I don't think pretty much anyone gets there by themselves. Knowledge in this endeavor is passed from shooter to shooter. And so we learn....

 

[6brshooter]

Some good responses to the OP's thread, and some silly ones. I don't know what kind of wind he shot in but he still had to make good calls. It's not like a farley co ax auto adjusts for wind. For years on this site it was the same ole same old, br is easy and i'm a tactical shooter . I've always said that things pioneered in br shooting from the 60-80s have trickled down to every sport. Things like fiberglass stocks, bedding, free floating barrels, manufacturers building scopes that actually track.... The list could go on and but i digress. I hope one day that i can be as good as the guys here that say ".3xx" at 600 yds don't impress me." Must be some super duper steel shooter to get bored with that common accuracy,lol.

 

[Birddog6424]

There is a laundry list of developments that have been pioneered by the Bench Rest guys, that trickle down to practical shooters.

The 1 MOA threshold for consistent accuracy was a pretty impressive feat back in the day with bolt guns, but now people think their AR15's are garbage if they're not getting consistent 1 MOA performance with every group from a mixmaster frankenbortion with gun show parts and internet special sales, where they spent maybe $600-$700 on the rifle.

We can thank the BR folks for taking accurate rifle shooting capabilities to higher levels incrementally. BR doesn't appeal to me personally, just like I'm not a big shotgun guy either. I'm more than happy to learn from them both and apply aspects of what they do to what I do if it works.

Great post.

Everything needs a testing ground where the envelope is pushed. At some point those things trickle down to the common man.

 

[MAT4-82]

I'd have to disagree, as much as I appreciate your point of view and previous posts on the matter. Shooting a group that size, equipment not withstanding, is a pretty amazing skill achievement. Sometimes even going over the top with equipment is not a guarantee you will do well. On days when wind and mirage are always changing, it's a tough challenge to still call it and shoot it. Granted, prone or even rested on a sandbag prone makes it harder physically. Offhand even more so.

But, one of the biggest contributions to shooting from the benchrest crowd, aside from how to super-accurize a rifle, is seeing how to call 'conditions'. A lot of newer shooters find it difficult to attempt to master marksmanship position skills along with wind and mirage reading. Too many beginning shooters look at all the factors and rather than seeing them together and adjusting (down to where it becomes second nature with advanced shooters), they simply get overwhelmed. Bench rest takes the physical out of the equation and allows the shooter to decide, under no physical stress, how to call the shot. What is a 10 or an X at short range is a hit or a miss at long range. Translated to the battlefield and precision shooters there, those little factors that can be trained into the mind before the harder part of physically mastering the rifle is a good lead in I think.

All this being said, I don't think pretty much anyone gets there by themselves. Knowledge in this endeavor is passed from shooter to shooter. And so we learn....

Well I said MOST and I didn't say it wasn't an achievement.
I was merely pointing out to the gentleman that this record setting accomplishment ( specialized as it might be ) was an accomplishment none the less and should not be denigrated.

There was almost nothing in the demonstration video however that has much to do with the conventional concept of rifle marksmanship.
Benchrest allows situational control to an extent not allowed in any other "gun game" to accomplish the intended goal.

My instructional philosophy is in almost direct opposition to what you express in your above post.
I feel that the major error of most new shooters is to try to learn everything all at once rather than a step at a time so that variables can be identified and corrected.
No offense, just my viewpoint.

 

[sandwarrior]

Well I said MOST and I didn't say it wasn't an achievement.
I was merely pointing out to the gentleman that this record setting accomplishment ( specialized as it might be ) was an accomplishment none the less and should not be denigrated.

There was almost nothing in the demonstration video however that has much to do with the conventional concept of rifle marksmanship.
Benchrest allows situational control to an extent not allowed in any other "gun game" to accomplish the intended goal.

My instructional philosophy is in almost direct opposition to what you express in your above post.
I feel that the major error of most new shooters is to try to learn everything all at once rather than a step at a time so that variables can be identified and corrected.
No offense, just my viewpoint.

No offense taken here. And, I hope none taken. I agree with your viewpoint. One thing at a time mastered produces a better end result. I did not mean to phrase it in a way to get you up in arms. Only that while being heavy on the technical side some skills of BR carry over. One thing that doesn't, and I'm really guilty of it, is not getting out and moving and shooting different positions. Some days it's just too easy to pack the rifle to the bench and back to the truck.

 

[MAT4-82]

No offense taken here. And, I hope none taken. I agree with your viewpoint. One thing at a time mastered produces a better end result. I did not mean to phrase it in a way to get you up in arms. Only that while being heavy on the technical side some virtues of BR carry over. One thing that doesn't, and I'm really guilty of it, is not getting out and moving and shooting different positions. Some days it's just to easy to pack the rifle to the bench and back to the truck.

No problem here at all just felt you misunderstood the point of my post and thus the disagreement. Its the yin and yang thing, credit were due does not imply universal credit.

 

[Jig Stick]

Benchrest shooting is very different than what most guys on the hide are into. I happen to be into a little bit of both. And I can certainly tell you that shooting a group like that is not easy to do, even with F class guns, insanely heavy rests, sleds, supports, etc. The amount of time that goes into load development and loading in general is insane. Most of my buddys have multiple barrels with them and swap them out based on conditions, bullet weights, time of day…and tweak seating depth, neck tension, and powder charges on the fly, right at the bench. reading the wind is key, and trigger mechanics as well. I personally think that he pulled off some good shooting. Is it tactical? Practical? No. But everyone has their own hobby, and in the world of long range bench rest, that group is no joke.

Ill throw this out there as well. The stuff that I have learned from bench rest shooting has definitely made me a better shooter in general. Reading wind, controlling breathing, trigger mechanics, and my hand loading all drastically improved. And when I am in the woods hunting, I'm definitely a better shot than I used to be.

 

[Shoottothrill]

I think the guy is a total bad-ass, and that group is insane. Its basically 1 hole at 600 yards. That would be hard to do with a laser that has no drop and is unaffected by wind. The level of perfection in your equipment and reloading skills would drive most guys insane.