Worst Value Optic?
- Thread starter KevinWood44
- Start date
You are right, I apologise.
Porche doesn't deserve to be compared to Mercedes or Range Rover.
In the tier list of shit cars Porsche is right along side Tesla, Ford, and Jeep.
You want a real luxury 4x4, get a Range Rover.
You want a real sports car, get a Ferrari.
You want a real rifle get a Savage.
Friends don't let friends buy Euro trash,dam,........ I thought I was a KTM forum ,ya know,the premium bikes that are "made in Austria" stamped on frame.The engines made by Kymco or Cf moto,plastic from India.Prove your Zco,Meo,NF etc,doesn't have chicom parts in it.You can't.Friends don't let friends buy Leupold.
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Hey now, you leave KTM out of this.
Piece of shit.
Hey now, you leave KTM out of this.
If it's not a 300 then it's also a POS.
300 2T is the only way.
I guess I can accept that.Lol
The smoker is a 300. The 890 went on down the road and the 500 is my BDR ride, love the 500.
Many years ago I had a DR650 as adventure bike (I guess thats the same BDR) it wasn't very comfortable on road (no screen and a bit under powered) but it was surprisingly capable offroad. I then had a KLR 650 (ugly as hell) which was much better on the road but I enjoyed it less as offroad it wasn't great.
Adventure bikes are hard to strike the right balance of on road/off road performance.
I think for my midlife crisis I'll tour Europe by adventure bike.
I'd like a road legal 300EXC, somewhat for the offroad capability but mostly for the smell.
What kind of chicken shit mod issues a warning by editing your post. And not saying who they are. And not sending a message or anything.
Standards are going to hell here with these millennial hires
Try to be nice but sometimes idiots can't see that and have to continue to be stupid. Buh bye.
Rob01 aka not a millenial
Hi point is the most under rated firearm.
And Nightforce doesn’t have failures. Only operator error.
Standards are going to hell here with these millennial hires
Try to be nice but sometimes idiots can't see that and have to continue to be stupid. Buh bye.
Rob01 aka not a millenial
Hi point is the most under rated firearm.
And Nightforce doesn’t have failures. Only operator error.
Prove that your Leupold trash isn’t 30 year old technology stuffed into a moderately-modern package, 10 years out of date from everyone else, only beaten by 1 other company on the “outdated scale”… Schmidt & Bender.
I’m pretty damn sure ZCO, NF, Kahles, Swaro, etc… aren’t using Chinese glass, erectors, and internals. You would have to be a dumbass to think otherwise, because only a moron who’s never actually used an alpha-scope, would not be able to immediately distinguish the glass quality between Schott & Taiwan, and the feel of quality erectors and workmanship, over cheap Chicom scopes. Maybe they use some Chinese o-rings and small plastic parts, but who knows?
I’d suggest actually learning what you’re talking about next time you decide to open your cockholster.
Wasn't dissing KTM ,but KTM has had direct ties with China and India companies for years,with thier specs,Kymco and CF Moto make quality products,Honda CRf 300 ,Honda small engines,China,BMW has some engines made in China,Cadillac has transmissions made in China etc ,bottom line is profit,they are force to use China.Europe corporations killed thier local foundry steel,brass,aluminum and lead supply chain like the US..Look at a ship tracking app,look at container ships entering our ports from China,they all have numbers,look the container number up,the number will give you every ocean bill of ladings in that have been in that container.All this can be done on $100 chicom phone or us a $1000 chicom apple. I found Vortex,Sig and Leupold range finders on same container in Washington state four or five years ago, takes a bit of time,but interesting.Hey now, you leave KTM out of this.
Heres the deal, I accept it.I buy what fits my budget, and works the best,I never use credit for toys.Credit makes you blind on toy shopping.Chicom thing sucks, but it's here to stay.We are consumer economy.
What precent of folks on this forum pecking on their chicom keyboard have some chicom clothes on,shoes,belts,lighting,RX glasses,cell phone,computer,TV,coffee cup,microwave, fan,clock,eating chicom Farmland bacon,Brazilian beef ,chicom shrimp from Kroeger etc and then they claim,..... no,no, Chinese ingrediants in my favorite toy!ooooooooookaaaaaay.
There is a slight difference between buying chinese because it's literally the only option for a needed product and buying chinese made luxury items when/if there are other options.
And, although I don't expect it to happen, consumers can vote with their wallet and cause change. Could we cut foreign made entirely? Almost certainly not. Can we cut down on chinese goods? Probably could but I don't believe consumers will ever unite enough to do it. Doesn't mean I can't at least try to stand on principle.
I wonder how anyone managed before any of the current “alpha” scopes out there? Carlos Hathcock must be rolling over in his grave right now. Seems very snobbish the way many act over this (cost of item) subject. I’m happy that there are better options available today but it’s asinine to think that anything less that “X” brand is shit. It makes you look small and speaks to the fact that your “skills” are dependent on such things.
I shot with less quality and features when I was in the Army than what is available mid quality today and was still able to get the job done. God forbid there might be some purple fringing or a bit of chromatic aberration! So what if someone can’t throw down $5k on a scope? Does that make them less of a shooter? Last time I checked being an expert at something was mastering the basics, not how much you spent on an optic.
Yes some of it is Chinese made but what isn’t today? Want to change that then change the way manufacturing is today. It’s a sad part of life but it is for sure a part of it. Want more people to buy American? Then help make it affordable again. I’m glad that you can afford those nicer things and support the fact that you deserve them but your situation isn’t everyone’s. And it doesn’t make them less of a shooter either. It’s pretentious at best.
I shot with less quality and features when I was in the Army than what is available mid quality today and was still able to get the job done. God forbid there might be some purple fringing or a bit of chromatic aberration! So what if someone can’t throw down $5k on a scope? Does that make them less of a shooter? Last time I checked being an expert at something was mastering the basics, not how much you spent on an optic.
Yes some of it is Chinese made but what isn’t today? Want to change that then change the way manufacturing is today. It’s a sad part of life but it is for sure a part of it. Want more people to buy American? Then help make it affordable again. I’m glad that you can afford those nicer things and support the fact that you deserve them but your situation isn’t everyone’s. And it doesn’t make them less of a shooter either. It’s pretentious at best.
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And, to make matters worse, let me throw a black pill in. I knew a guy working at at local company where he would receive parts from Mexico and China and assemble them here and slap on a "Made in America" sticker.
So, possibly chinese parts are getting into scopes of all kinds. What is the source of glass? Sand. Where do we get sand? The desert, I suppose. Then only difference is whether you say sheh sheh ni or do mari gato. I think others are saying that the japanese are doing a better job of creating and polishing the glass than the chinese but I don't know because I have not worked in either of those factories, nor do I know the reason that japanese glass may be more expensive than chinese glass, assuming that the unit of glass has a price difference.
In fact, I am just a simple caveman electrician. Years ago, your scientists thawed me out of a glacier...
I really like Burris scopes, always have, but there's definitely a QA thing going on with them. My buddy has a few XTR2's, and they're all different. some have really generous eye boxes, while others have ULTRA small boxes. Some are way clearer than others as well.If my $3,100 ATACR F1 5-25X56 has lower-quality glass than my $1,300 Zeiss Conquest V4 6-24x50, then I'd guess the much lower-priced NX8 is probably somewhere around the Burris XTR-II 5-25x50... In that case, I'll just save $1,500+ and buy the Burris while it's on sale. It tracks true, has a solid pin zero-stop, has decent turrets, and at least the parallax is semi-close to accurate.
I imagine this is true. My limited experience with Burris is from when they first came out with the xrs2. I had looked through one someone had and a friend was looking for something on that price/performance range, so I recommended one to him. His was a poor in general and I felt bad. Tight eyebox and not a clear picture no matter how much adjustment to the diopter and focus we attempted.
On the other hand I’ve seen a number of the match pro scopes and looked through a few at targets and they seem quite a bit more consistent. I guess one would expect that as it’s intended to be a step up from the others and is.
Yea, not sure what's going on with them. I've been a Burris owner since the 80s, and they always beat Leupold in my opinion for the money. (they weren't better than leupolds, but their value was better) I have an XTR2 as of now and what's odd is when it's really bright out, I can't get the image to focus past say 18 power or so. When it's hazy out, I can get it to focus but when it's past I think 20 or so the eye box is so small the scope is wholly unusable. I mean my Athlon Argos gen 2 6-24 beats it soundly on being clearer and more forgiving in the eye box area and being able to focus it in. The burris parallax is very hard to adjust as well. I must have just gotten a bad one I think.
Not sure that's what they're arguing. I agree totally though, I take the exact same approach; "what were we doing before all of this shit came out?" lol. It seems we were all just fine shooting total CRAP Leupold M3As and the vari x whatevers in SFP with standard mil dot reticles lol.
But I think what they're saying is it just makes the whole experience a whole lot better and thus more efficient. I'm a car guy, and I love my old cars, and I'm not spoiled by any means meaning, I dont even have a back up camera or blue tooth whateverthefuck in my daily driver, but I couldn't IMAGINE having to drive a '57 chevy to work every day. No way in hell lol. The upper end Schmidt Benders, Kahleses, TTs and ZCOs are just soo much easier to screw with once you've shot them. No it doesn't make anyone less of a shooter (I'm very sure frank galli could outshoot most of us here with an Athlon Argos scope) but it does make a difference in how fast you can make out target detail, and even more so in crap conditions (low light or mirage).
Either way, we buy what we can afford. I think the more you spend on the scope the less chance you'll run into a QA issue. I've shot to 1300 meters with an old burris 8-32 varmint scope over 30 years ago. Though my eyes were infinitely better than they are now lol.
Night Force just don't look good to my eyes. I am 59 and wear glasses to this for what it's worth.
For Burris now you have to look beyond the older XTRII. Their XTRIIIi and the Pro are head and shoulders above the old XTRII. My first scope was an old Burris Fullfield 30 years ago. Glad to be back using the newer Burris scopes now and see how far they have come.
That’s been around long before Ron White would have said it (if he did, I don’t know?
).One of his bits was about being in a movie theater and dealing with some lady who would not shut up and he told her to shut her cockholster, at which point, the entire theater was quiet and could hear that.That’s been around long before Ron White would have said it (if he did, I don’t know?
Go to timestamp 06:00
There’s a wee bit of difference between the job you got done and the capabilities of today’s rifle systems / shooters.
And there’s a difference between low priced quality scopes and low priced junk that has a bunch of features but is unreliable
You bit HARD on his Chicom parts comment just to come full circle and say he might be right.
I'm that idiot who HAS used (borrowed) top tier scopes NF and ZCO and can maybe just barely distinguish a difference in the glass vs better Chinese stuff (I've also used some really crappy cheap stuff that is bunk). Put a ZCO beside some decent Jap glass and I'd never know. Same goes for the turrets, the cheaper stuff is easy to tell how mushy they are, the more expensive stuff is definitely decent and the Jap stuff is really good, maybe not TT or ZCO good but definitely in the mix with NF IMO.
Even after all that I have decided that my next scope will be a ZCO or TT still up in the air but leaning ZCO currently really IMO it's down the line of diminishing return but you can't stop me from buying something more expensive even if the only reason is "I want it."
I’m not trying to sell either one of them to you, but when it came time to buy I had the money for ZCO or TT. After much research I chose the ZCO, I’m thinking mostly based on reticle. Then I couldn’t get the reticle I wanted right now and bought it used.
Honestly I’m an impulse buyer after I’ve made my decision on what I want. I need the damn thing today.
I couldn’t see the extra thousand for a reticle I didn’t like and the no tool turrets. Even if they are clickeyer. Or tactile, whatever the word is.
Put the Vortex in the same wheelbarrow.
Yeah, lifetime warranty regardless of original buyer or next owner. No questions asked. How horrible are they? Evidently so horrible that Arken and a few others are also offering that warranty. And have also had warranty claims against them, as well.But that customer service!!!!
And I bet there have been warranty claims against every brand mentioned in here. Maybe not by the guys here but elsewhere. Or, the people that had warranty problems got it taken care of quietly.
Most every car has a recall at some point in it's life. Yet, we are still buying those vehicles.
So, I think the next challenge should be to present a warranty claim that Vortex or anyone else did not honor or do something about, especially complete replacement of the unit.
Yes, I like Vortex but I am also looking for a balanced judgement, which may be asking too much.
Not ZCO or NF.
NF at least calls it like it is and explains that that the failure is in reality user error.
I will have to take your word for it. I don't work for any of these optic companies and cannot speak to the actual existence and number of warranty claims. But I am glad that you do. This is valuable information.
Lol zco has busted lenses and also turrets I think (hope) that’s the extent and only on the 840s
NF has had to be sued to admit / remedy issues.
But I love some mpct3 and 4-16x42s and 2.5-20s so I’ll pretend they don’t fail
I am confused. You just said these companies did not have warranty claims. But then, you mention these problems.
That was NOT my intentions at all. I asked a very simple question I did NOT expect 7 pages of this. Lesson learned
Actually, I can explain that. The reason for the drama is because it started on a day that ended in the letter 'y'. And only gets more grief on other days that end in the letter 'y'.
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