Would you support age restriction on semi-auto firearms?

[...]

And ......... You just proved my point. I am not going to ask you to remove that, @fdkay swung first.

proved what point?

that i think youre an asshole if you feel civil rights should be violated?..........that you are a piece of shit for trying to restrict the 2A.........that you are a coward for endorsing laws that wont effect you?

or is it that my "cortex isnt developed"?.......well im nearly 30, so maybe no guns for anyone until theyre 35?.....

being mouthy isnt an indication im a violent person....or otherwise unsafe...it just means im a strongly opinionated asshole.

when you tell me you want restrictions on the 2A......i treat you just the same as some fuck in Shitbagistan who burns the flag and shouts "death to america"..........because both want exactly the same thing.

 

[SmileMaker]

Better a minimum age requirement than reclassifying and treating them as Class 2 weapons.

 

[MtnCreek]

I can't speak for the man, but I belive he's just frustrated to see us argue while we're, as a whole, being attacked. But I'm an asshole too, so doesn't bother me much. :-D

 

[fdkay]

Excellent point. Wish I had thought of it. I was actually just wonder if maybe his prefrontal cortex wasn't fully developed yet. :-D

Since the late 70's or early 80's America has become the land of parenting through pharmaceuticals.
Instead of providing direction, guidance and discipline, they react by administering drugs.
Since the authority to punish has been removed from the schools, and largely removed from parental rights, they method of control has been drugs.
These drugs have been PROVEN to alter or delay the healthy development of the brain.
So, yeah, it is very likely his prefrontal cortex was not fully developed.

 

[MtnCreek]

Since the late 70's or early 80's America has become the land of parenting through pharmaceuticals.
Instead of providing direction, guidance and discipline, they react by administering drugs.
Since the authority to punish has been removed from the schools, and largely removed from parental rights, they method of control has been drugs.
These drugs have been PROVEN to alter or delay the healthy development of the brain.
So, yeah, it is very likely his prefrontal cortex was not fully developed.

I see that as similar to the gun bans some want because of school shooting. The same people wanting to restrict access to firearms are the same people that created the problem. I refuse to give up any of my nature rights because someone else is doping kids or concentrating them in a place where it's a crime to be prepared to protect them with a firearm. It would be like passing a law requiring cars don't have a brake, then banning cars because people are getting killed.

 

[MilDot1960]

mcameron said:
Go fuck your self you dumb fucking cunt.

Do me a favor and hang yourself you communist fuck End Quote,

ya know I understand how you feel about all this but this is no way to go forward, This type of thing is giving them all the ammo they need to come back at you,

fdkay or 2ndamedfan or anyone for that matter does not deserve your above comments, fair go mate that's a bit OTT don't ya think, The point being is they want to see crap like that because it gives them reasons to take your gear away and if you can't get along on here then as "One"/Team then your F%&@ed already and you might as well give up now, I admire your passion about it but don't give them the bullets to fire at you. Keep that kind of thing for the PM system if you have to go to such extremes, Not that he did anything to deserve that in the first place.

It's a fact, you guys need each other,

John.

 

[Downtown]

I'm a little confused. An eighteen year old could still purchase a lever action, a pump action, a bolt action? This lowers the chance of mass shooting until they are twenty one?

 

[Downtown]

I'm pretty fast with a lever action, although I'm old enough to own one.

 

[...]

2ndamedfan does not deserve your above comments,

that wasnt directed at him.

and quite frankly im appalled at the lack of regard for our constitution that many have shown here.....but so long as everyone can keep their own guns, they dont care about anyone else i guess.....i wonder who they are gonna count on when the govt finally comes for their guns?

you claim im "giving ammo to the antis"......what about all the "gun supporters" that support more gun regulations?......thats FAR more dangerous that some prick with an attitude.

 

[2ndamendfan]

proved what point?

that i think youre an asshole if you feel civil rights should be violated?..........that you are a piece of shit for trying to restrict the 2A.........that you are a coward for endorsing laws that wont effect you?

or is it that my "cortex isnt developed"?.......well im nearly 30, so maybe no guns for anyone until theyre 35?.....

being mouthy isnt an indication im a violent person....or otherwise unsafe...it just means im a strongly opinionated asshole.

when you tell me you want restrictions on the 2A......i treat you just the same as some fuck in Shitbagistan who burns the flag and shouts "death to america"..........because both want exactly the same thing.

Read through the whole tread and connect the dots. 2 or 3 conversations going on here. @MilDot1960 got it.

 

[MtnCreek]

What will they do when some kid kills more with a well worn wingmaster?

 

[2ndamendfan]

that wasnt directed at him.

and quite frankly im appalled at the lack of regard for our constitution that many have shown here.....but so long as everyone can keep their own guns, they dont care about anyone else i guess.....i wonder who they are gonna count on when the govt finally comes for their guns?

you claim im "giving ammo to the antis"......what about all the "gun supporters" that support more gun regulations?......thats FAR more dangerous that some prick with an attitude.

I have a huge regard for the constitution. I started this thread to work out why it is a bad idea.

On the surface it does not sound to bad (hold the hell on before you start typing)

As i believe you said 18 is just an arbitrary number. But that number was based on what at the time was an expected level of maturity. As has also been stated, times have changed, parenting by drugs, participation trophies, ..... Have what would seem to many. Made 18 the new 13.

I dont think anyone wants a weapon in the hands of an immature, physiological under developed person.

So the real question/issue is how do you/we prove maturity/competence without making it age based? I know 26 year olds right now that are less mature than some 18.

As someone stated a 13 year old can not sign into a contract. But that is also arbitrary and could be changed. There is actually a movement by pedophiles to get the age of consent dropped to 12-13 years old. I obviously hope that never gains traction, but again level of maturity is what is implied when an age is chosen.

 

[Crewdog135]

It’s already been said, but if we are going to have this conversation, then it must include a “legal adult” conversation. Rights are interesting things; either they apply or they don’t. If I can be deemed legally obligated to a contract, can vote for governmental representation, legally organize and voice grievances, etc, then ALL rights should apply.

My 15 year old daughter asked for her own rifle for Christmas this year. After looking at many different types, she ended up wanting an AR. Makes sense, low recoil, light weight, adjustable stock. I gave her one from my stable. She’s been shooting with it since she was 11.

 

[Nik H]

I support age restricting semi-autos until 21. The prefrontal cortex, which is the decision making organ, does not come online until ~25.

Maybe you’re a late bloomer. I already had 2 technical degrees at 21.

 

[MilDot1960]

Personally I think you should grab your constitution and hang on with both hands, The battle is out there, Not here. I envy your constitution and if you follow it to the letter it won't let you down.

John.

 

[ShadowBear]

Ok, do you think that age restrictions on handguns should be dropped to 18?

Look I am not trying to push anyone's buttons. The proposal was said to have been brought up to Trump at Mar-alogo last weekend.

The fact is that the human brain is not fully developed until about age 24. That it has been proven that before age 20 most people can not fully think out the totality of there actions.

I dont believe talking about it like grown men is detrimental in anyway.

That explains why recruiters hang around high schools....

 

[jcm331]

Serious question. Where did our current age restrictions (18, 21) on purchasing firearms come from?

 

[FS1]

After World War 2 a lot of women remained in the workforce. In the Sixties more and more women went to work. Some for economic reasons others for satisfaction. Then some who went it alone. Less and less mother’s at home raising kids. I believe this was the key to where we are today.

It was a significant Social change that did not seem like a big deal at the time. It altered us to the very core of our society. We live the results. JMHO

 

[...]

I have a huge regard for the constitution. I started this thread to work out why it is a bad idea.

On the surface it does not sound to bad (hold the hell on before you start typing)

As i believe you said 18 is just an arbitrary number. But that number was based on what at the time was an expected level of maturity. As has also been stated, times have changed, parenting by drugs, participation trophies, ..... Have what would seem to many. Made 18 the new 13.

I dont think anyone wants a weapon in the hands of an immature, physiological under developed person.

So the real question/issue is how do you/we prove maturity/competence without making it age based? I know 26 year olds right now that are less mature than some 18.

As someone stated a 13 year old can not sign into a contract. But that is also arbitrary and could be changed. There is actually a movement by pedophiles to get the age of consent dropped to 12-13 years old. I obviously hope that never gains traction, but again level of maturity is what is implied when an age is chosen.

well to that i have to say.......to what end do we take this?

whose to say in 50 yrs times they will decided that 21 is too young and we need to up it again to 30?....i mean, if we already set the prescient that we can up the age at will, whos gonna say that they wont make it 50yrs old?

you say that 18yr olds are now acting like 13........wheres any sort of data to prove that?........by what we see morons doing on the internet?

i work with 17,18,19,20yr olds every day........honestly 95% of them i would have no problem handing a firearm too and trusting them not to shoot me with it......youtubers looking for likes are not indicative of our society.

now you claim over medication and lack of discipline is a issue.......and honestly i agree.........but upping the age to be a legal adult isnt the solution.

because that addresses the symptoms, and not the cause of the issue.

that would be like stepping on a nail, and then cutting holes in all your shoes to make room for the nail.......when the solution is to pull the fucking nail out of your foot.

18 to be a legal adult has been fine for the past 250yrs......but now all of a sudden its an issue?......why?.......its not because humans have devolved.


now more importantly, do you support this for ALL rights? or just the 2A?..........can you not vote until 21?........what about speak publicly?......are 18yr old subject to unreasonable search and seizure? be 21 to sign legal contracts?

what about to drive a car?......they give licenses away at 17......if 18 yr old act like 13......im assuming 17yr olds act like 12..........do we really want 12yr olds driving?

why does this burden fall solely on the 2A.......which is a god given right..........when auto accidents kill far more people a year than guns do......and driving is a privilege

 

[Velocity Chad]

I have a kid that's going to grow up in this fucked up world, and as much as I'm a staunch supporter of the constitution, and love my guns. IF (notice the big IF) there was a law that would stop all this terrible shit going on and protect him, I would support it. Adding another gun law sure isn't going to help, and the gun laws in general are not about protecting anyone. Its about disarming citizens. Even if every gun magically disappears tomorrow, there will still be mass killings, murders etc. It is a problem with society, not guns.

Also, if all my guns disappeared tomorrow I would be one really angry MF'er!

 

[MilDot1960]

I have a kid that's going to grow up in this fucked up world, and as much as I'm a staunch supporter of the constitution, and love my guns. IF (notice the big IF) there was a law that would stop all this terrible shit going on and protect him, I would support it. Adding another gun law sure isn't going to help, and the gun laws in general are not about protecting anyone. Its about disarming citizens. Even if every gun magically disappears tomorrow, there will still be mass killings, murders etc. It is a problem with society, not guns.

Also, if all my guns disappeared tomorrow I would be one really angry MF'er!

Yep, They can bring in 10,000,000 Laws but criminals break Laws so any new Laws will only effect honest people, They have Laws about murder and theft etc but somewhere over there Today someone has died and someone has stolen something so any change in Laws will be Null and Void.

Parents need to be more proactive as do others who know someone who is on a down hill slope and if such persons won't get help then those around them need to step up.

John.

 

[Maggot]

One must be of an appropriate age to drive a car...Though I think age has far less to do with this than being reasonably sane and no anger management issues.

20% of the people I see on the highway have nobusiness there. While I support 2A rights, a large % o the people I see with guns really have no business with them....go to any gunshow anymore. Too many idiots with attitudes. What I would support is a national program that all gun owners are required to go through. Completion of the course grants you a CCW valid in every state.

The below suggestins should in no way impinge upon one's right to buy and own a weapon, just insure that there is a certain level of proficiency and awareness. You'd be surprised how many still think that the car door iss an effictive shield.

First some legal stuff like you should get in any good course. Then maybe being forced to watch some videos of the aftermath of poor gun handeling and a 'scared straigh't sort of visit to the local prison where you can witness the results of poor choices. Then, finally, more than just cusory training, but some indepth handling and shooting experience.

Popcorn time.

 

[_Windrider_]

One must be of an appropriate age to drive a car...Though I think age has far less to do with this than being reasonably sane and no anger management issues.

What I would support is a national program that all gun owners are required to go through. 30% of the people I see on the highway have nobusiness there. While I support 2A rights, a large % o the people I see with guns really have no business with them....go to any gunshow anymore. Too many idiots with attitudes.

The below suggestins should in no way impinge upon one's right to buy and own a weapon, just insure that there is a certain level of proficiency and awareness. You'd be surprised how many still think that the car door iss an effictive shield.

First some legal stuff like you should get in any good course. Then maybe being forced to watch some videos of the aftermath of poor gun handeling and a 'scared straigh't sort of visit to the local prison where you can witness the results of poor choices. Then, finally, more than just cusory training, but some indepth handling and shooting experience.

Popcorn time.

Why not, they make you watch Red Asphalt in drivers Ed.

 

[EddieNFL]

I say no...but then I think of a certain SH member.

 

[j-huskey]

Absolutely HELL FUCKING NO!!!!!

All the 18 year olds serving in the military ,those who have served, and those who will serve, do not deserve to be so disrespected...

 

[W54/XM-388]

What I would support is a national program that all gun owners are required to go through. 30% of the people I see on the highway have nobusiness there.

Here is the problem, you want to put a roadblock for a constitutional right instead of possibly suggesting non freedom infringing methods.

So a national program then before you can vote, before you can use your free speech rights, before the government can't intrude into your freedoms?
Unlike driving, the right to be armed is a natural right that is protected specifically in the constitution.

Here is the proper solution that does not restrict freedom.
If you want people to get training, that's easy, make it a mandatory part of the Education curriculum in high school, safe gun usage, how to handle and shoot properly & basic gun safety.

You'll notice a generation ago when such things were still common, there was not the current issue with younger people not knowing how to safely handle guns.

 

[Xander3Zero]

I think its worth noting that even on a forum dedicated to firearms and shooting sports of all kinds, there is a massive amount of differing opinions.

Now take this forum and combine it with the opinions of the rest of the country... will America ever agree on anything again?!

 

[MilDot1960]

Absolutely HELL FUCKING NO!!!!!

All the 18 year olds serving in the military ,those who have served, and those who will serve, do not deserve to be so disrespected...

By putting an age limit on them would have to include those in the military and that would just not work, So an age limit would be a double edged sword.

 

[boomer81]

if you can die for your country then you should be able to do anything. are the going not let 18 year olds in the military use semi autos either. it's stupid i give no quarter on 2a. fuck with it and you should be shot for treason

 

[Steel+Killer]

Does anyone think they will stop at 21? Or bump stocks? Or 10 round mags? Or scary black AR15s? Give them an inch and they will want a mile! Oh BTW I have two bump stocks for sale anyone interested?

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

I did not read all the posts,

So this idea has surfaced. Semi-auto restricted to age 21 and older for purchase.

Yes, as long as they can't drink alcohol, vote, or serve in the armed forces until the age they can have a semi-auto. Fucking libtards always want it their way, fuck them. Back when, I was humping a M14e2 at 17. I was old enough to fight for this country, but not vote or drink, what the fuck is that all about? Land of the free my ass!

 

[wake.joe]

Shall not be infringed... Once you're 50 years old and too broken to fight back anyway. Otherwise this amendment does not apply to you.

 

[...]

I think its worth noting that even on a forum dedicated to firearms and shooting sports of all kinds, there is a massive amount of differing opinions.

Now take this forum and combine it with the opinions of the rest of the country... will America ever agree on anything again?!

you see the thing is.......it doesnt matter what everyones opinion is.....it really doesnt.

because the constitution is clear as fucking day on this issue......."the right of the people, to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed"

now you may not agree with whats written....and you can try to "interpret" it......you can try to pass your own justifications and opinions......but at the end of the day, if you believe in any sort of regulation.....you are wrong, i am sorry.

now if you want to change that.......there is a legal way to do it......its by amending the constitution as called out in article 5.

but all this pussy footing and BS regulating is illegal.

 

[_Windrider_]

you see the thing is.......it doesnt matter what everyones opinion is.....it really doesnt.

because the constitution is clear as fucking day on this issue......."the right of the people, to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed"

now you may not agree with whats written....and you can try to "interpret" it......you can try to pass your own justifications and opinions......but at the end of the day, if you believe in any sort of regulation.....you are wrong, i am sorry.

now if you want to change that.......there is a legal way to do it......its by amending the constitution as called out in article 5.

but passing all this pussy footing and BS regulating is illegal.

They made it difficult for a reason.

 

[quietmike]

If semi-autos are too dangerous for 18yo minds, how are revolvers different?

If the rate of fire is to high, what rate is acceptable for killing people?

 

[wilson1911]

Instead of everyone getting all worked up...take a breather. I can think of many reasons many want to restrict gun laws. But if we are a nation, with that comes laws we must all abide by.
There are many people who have made valid arguments for...... or against. So what does the law say about firearms ?

At first many will direct you to federal regulations, then the constitutional crowd comes in beating their drums and waving their flag. If we look at what the law states, then we can determine how to proceed. There is a hierarchy in the structure of laws.
First we have the constitution, then federal laws coming in position number 2, then state and local laws. Without this structure laws would be pure chaos.....with them all conflicting one another.

So lets start with looking at what the law states. The First law explicitly states we have a right that shall absolutely not be hindered in having/wearing arms. This goes much further than a simple gun, but it includes all knives, swords, nun-chicks. If its wearable, its legal.

Now this is where the problem begins. The constitution has a requirement of "common sense" to be interpreted correctly. We as a people, reared our kids in a way that taught them right from wrong, values, and we are accountable for our actions etc.....well which is the missing link in today's society.

So I ask everyone who has posted in this thread, where does the first law leave room for gov of any kind to regulate/restrict arms ? I realize this may strike some as an extreme view, but it's actually what the law states.

 

[MilDot1960]

Does anyone think they will stop at 21? Or bump stocks? Or 10 round mags? Or scary black AR15s? Give them an inch and they will want a mile! Oh BTW I have two bump stocks for sale anyone interested?

The limit in the UK is 3 round Cap I think, which is totally useless. and then it gets really confusing.

John.

 

[Maggot]

"Now this is where the problem begins. The constitution has a requirement of "common sense" to be interpreted correctly"

Our right to assemble is also clearly laid out, but in certain circumstances can be 'infringed upon"

And common sense would dictate that should if someone who is clearly insane, or deemed mentally not fit, or in a rage talking about killing people, their rights to purchase a firearm CAN BE INFRINGED UPON. Would yo seel a pistol to an idiot just because he had the$$$?

Thats how I see a training program, as common sense not as infringement. As suggested above it should be in the shcools to begin with, but Id like to see it nationwide, perhaps adminsitered by the states.

There are people who have no business owneing a gun, or a car for that matter.

 

[MilDot1960]

There are people who have no business owneing a gun, or a car for that matter.

I can't believe they let some folks breed either, Lol

 

[wilson1911]

Back in the old days, these types of people weeded themselves out....too bad that doesn't happen today.

Tide pods anyone ?

 

[_Windrider_]

I can't believe they let some folks breed either, Lol

Fact. Like democrats.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Every day 51 die from alcohol !!
60K died last year from drugs, where is that outrage??? It's ok to kill a baby, so what point I am missing here? It's not about lives it's about control, nothing more nothing less, but if they are looking for a Athens Tenn event in flyover land they can get their wish!

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Here's one. When I left for Parris Island, I was old enough to walk into the corner tavern and buy one (or more) beer(s).

When I got back, I was not old enough.

WTF! Happened while my back was turned, defending democracy...

 

[DetroitRearView]

No
Negatory
Never

I don’t live in a metro area anymore. I still believe -as posted elsewhere in States Rights. I am a Northerner - however Federalism has been and continues to be our major problem.

We moved here with purpose, in fact our road dead ends into the largest wilderness land mass in the lower 48. The NATO rigs may go down river, but they will not make it back.

Oh what bomb us? Go ahead, that is the perspective here. We live everyday knowing that we could be blasted off the planet living adjacent to the big caldera.

Many well known western writers, hunters and former/current LEO .Mils are here because of our common values.

Do we have some liberals here? Of course we do. But they will come crying for protection to save their own butts.

Some bad guys here? Yep - but they go to jail or the big house.

I would rather die today than to see my children and grandchildren lose all that OUR generation has enjoyed and now are abusing.

I hope the day comes in my lifetime that if this garbage continues we have an armed hard Border surrounding Wyoming. The Feds can have Yellowstone, what a pathetic mess that has become with federal oversight.

Parenting, culture and values vary big time in USA. Most HS students where I live either check their trap lines and or feed horses, do chores and head off to school. Finish football practice, go to work for 4 hours, head home, more chores, eat dinner, run out and bust a few caps, take a shower (maybe) do some homework and catch 6 hours of sleep.

I know plenty of 16 year olds (male and female) with more maturity than a 65 year old.

They already have their weekend planned, hiking, trapping, riding horses, fishing, skiing and yes shooting their AR’s.

They wouldn’t know whether to laugh or cry reading this thread. Facebook or SH? Take your pick.

I shall now un-watch this thread, eat dinner with my wife and watch a WWII documentary.

 

[Rthur]

The only reason this is being discussed is the recent shooting.
I've never heard this topic brought up before.
The age barrier is just another angle.
Using the shooting as anything other than a crazy perp is dishonest.
His actions haven't any bearing on the actions/responsibility of others.
We have laws already on the books for when an individual steps outside the bounds.
All the what ifs are just an excuse.
On that vein, if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

R

 

[MarinePMI]

I did not read all the posts,


Back when, I was humping a M14e2 at 17. I was old enough to fight for this country, but not vote or drink, what the fuck is that all about? Land of the free my ass!

Doesn't that mean you volunteered?

 

[MarinePMI]

.......well im nearly 30...

That certainly fills in a couple blanks.

 

[shipereyes445]

Nope, you can join the military at ages 17 but can’t own a semi. Nah.

 

[...]

That certainly fills in a couple blanks.

i know i know......youre thinking that if i were just a little bit older, and you were just a little bit younger.......but im sorry mate....im taken

but ill tell you what ill do, i put you the waiting list.....you are currently 5th in line, right after Veer

 

[ArmyJerry]

Our radio news guy here on radio 740 in houston this morning described it as "students protesting in Tallahassee asking the government to restrict their liberty", Texas is in the process of turning into California as we speak, and will be a deep blue state within the next two elections but in the meantime we have at least one good radio news guy.

If John Cornyn dies in a fiery plane crash, I would not attend his RINO funeral or shed one tear. In the mean time I am going to start a go fund me to primary his ass.