WW1 British Expeditionary Force Marksmanship Standards

[sirhrmechanic]

As I was rummaging around in the armory bunker at Schloss Nitrocellulose today.... wrapping up some projects before winter... I remembered to grab some photos of this. I'd been meaning to post it when the thread was new-ish.

Might call it the "Original" Mil dot Master. But it's a metal slide rule for calculating machine gun placement and ranging, etc. This was what members of the Machine Gun Corps had to be competent with. Along with degree wheels on their carriages... T&E's, ranging posts, grazing fire, interlocking fields, plunging fire, graticules, all math...

Still think the MG Corps is where they sent the f**k-ups?

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Hey @TorF Good to see you still hanging out here!

Anyone ever restore that target in Norway... or is it still rusting ;-)

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[TorF]

Hi Sirhr

They promised to take care of it but I'm not sure they've done it.

Here's the old pics and a video of how it works.( from 3:20)

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

As I was rummaging around in the armory bunker at Schloss Nitrocellulose today.... wrapping up some projects before winter... I remembered to grab some photos of this. I'd been meaning to post it when the thread was new-ish.

Might call it the "Original" Mil dot Master. But it's a metal slide rule for calculating machine gun placement and ranging, etc. This was what members of the Machine Gun Corps had to be competent with. Along with degree wheels on their carriages... T&E's, ranging posts, grazing fire, interlocking fields, plunging fire, graticules, all math...

View attachment 7428415

View attachment 7428416

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Still think the MG Corps is where they sent the f**k-ups?

Cheers,

Sirhr

Very cool sirhr.. don’t you also have one of those old mechanical range finders? I’m guessing the officers were tasked with range finding and then sharing it with the unit?

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Hi Sirhr

They promised to take care of it but I'm not sure they've done it.

Here's the old pics and a video of how it works.( from 3:20)

Sad... I am sure it will rust into oblivion.... No chance of buying it to restore, is there?

Heck, I'd even leave it back to Norway in my will!

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Very cool sirhr.. don’t you also have one of those old mechanical range finders? I’m guessing the officers were tasked with range finding and then sharing it with the unit?

Several, in fact. Some WW2 ones that are several feet long... Old optics are very cool.

And NO, officers did not use them, typically. Using a rangefinder as a menial task. Machine Gunners and their NCO's set things up. Officers gave the orders. Then went to get tea and cakes.

You give too much credit to WW1 officers.

Sirhr

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Several, in fact. Some WW2 ones that are several feet long... Old optics are very cool.

And NO, officers did not use them, typically. Using a rangefinder as a menial task. Machine Gunners and their NCO's set things up. Officers gave the orders. Then went to get tea and cakes.

You give too much credit to WW1 officers.

Sirhr

Lol, I wasn’t attributing anything to their ability. I’ve simply read throughout history it was SOP for the officer to call out the range to the men under his command.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Lol, I wasn’t attributing anything to their ability. I’ve simply read throughout history it was SOP for the officer to call out the range to the men under his command.

If they called it out... it was because they had been handed it by an NCO.

Don't assume that British officers of the period "Did" anything.

And I offer this up as a guy whose grandfather WAS one of those officers.

Sirhr.

P.S. Well, Canuckian... which was a far sight better than the Limeys...

 

[sandwarrior]

Lol, I wasn’t attributing anything to their ability. I’ve simply read throughout history it was SOP for the officer to call out the range to the men under his command.

A lot of 'Historians' have this idea that officers are all involved. Remember NCO's are officers, just not commisioned, and not only know what to do (tactics), they mostly know how everything works mechanically under their control. Not saying officers are useless, they know which crumpets go with which tea. JK, I knew some really good ones.

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

Don’t forget to add “Sniping in France” by Major Hesketh-Prichard to the reading list. If you’re interested in WW1 marksmanship standards and sniping techniques then this book is essential reading. There’s a fair bit of technical info too.

An interesting read.
Major Hesketh Pritchard understood the devastating effect a sniper could have.

 

[Chenapan]

Information about standards can be found here:

Musketry Regulations, 1909, Reprinted with Amendments 1914 : War Office : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Updated just prior to the outbreak of the Great War, this was the manual that determined how every soldier in the British Army was taught how to use their...

archive.org

And here:

Small Arms Training Manuals

The Small Arms Training manuals cover the specific weapons used by the British Army and we have included international versions on this page as well.

vickersmg.blog

Recently, a history has been written, 'History of the Small Arms School Corps 1853-2017', by Richard Fisher, published by Helion, 2019.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Information about standards can be found here:

Musketry Regulations, 1909, Reprinted with Amendments 1914 : War Office : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Updated just prior to the outbreak of the Great War, this was the manual that determined how every soldier in the British Army was taught how to use their...

archive.org

And here:

Small Arms Training Manuals

The Small Arms Training manuals cover the specific weapons used by the British Army and we have included international versions on this page as well.

vickersmg.blog

Recently, a history has been written, 'History of the Small Arms School Corps 1853-2017', by Richard Fisher, published by Helion, 2019.

Awesome stuff, thanks! You wouldn’t happen to know where to find similar manuals for America from the same time period would you?

 

[Deleted member 10043]

I think as timed rolled by it didn't really matter anymore.

 

[Chenapan]

Awesome stuff, thanks! You wouldn’t happen to know where to find similar manuals for America from the same time period would you?

Small Arms Firing Manual 1913 : United States War Dept : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Book digitized by Google from the library of the University of Michigan and uploaded to the Internet Archive by user tpb.

archive.org

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Small Arms Firing Manual 1913 : United States War Dept : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Book digitized by Google from the library of the University of Michigan and uploaded to the Internet Archive by user tpb.

archive.org

Thanks a bunch @Chenapan youre the man