XRSII alternative with better reticle?

[Schw15]

Just because they are made in the same factory, doesn't mean they are the same scope, for example the tract uses Schott high transmission glass, there is a difference.
It is another option.
I understand, you have some emotional investment in Athlon, whatever.
I own a Cronus, I like it. My Sightron SV is better.

Tract Toric

Getting ready to replace PST Gen 2 with Tract Toric 4.5x30 56 and want to ask if anyone has feed back on this Toric scope? Researched many of competing scopes: MK5, Cronus, Rzr, XTRIII, T5XI, and the Toric seems to keep bubbling to the top. How is the glass quality at distance? How is the...

www.snipershide.com

The guy said he couldn't tell a difference. There is stuff like that all over. Not getting in a peeing contest over helping someone. He needs a great scope for as cheap as he can. 1399 is stretching his budget anyways so offering 1600 plus scopes don't make sense.

 

[fdkay]

Tract Toric

Getting ready to replace PST Gen 2 with Tract Toric 4.5x30 56 and want to ask if anyone has feed back on this Toric scope? Researched many of competing scopes: MK5, Cronus, Rzr, XTRIII, T5XI, and the Toric seems to keep bubbling to the top. How is the glass quality at distance? How is the...

www.snipershide.com

The guy said he couldn't tell a difference. There is stuff like that all over. Not getting in a peeing contest over helping someone. He needs a great scope for as cheap as he can. 1399 is stretching his budget anyways so offering 1600 plus scopes don't make sense.

true that, but he himself mentioned the tract.
It appears he is looking for something relatively unobtanium.

 

[Schw15]

true that, but he himself mentioned the tract.
It appears he is looking for something relatively unobtanium.

But all those scopes are great. I had tract binos and loved those things

 

[fullsemiauto556]

Is the Razor $400 better than the Cronus? Serious question.

I've owned a Razor 1-6 and it was a well built tank. I only sold it because it made my 16" BCM too top heavy and I replaced it with a lighter 1-4 Accupoint.
I don't care about weight for my 308 though.
I've only had experience with a couple of gen1 Athlon Helos scopes. They were okay for $300 Midway closeouts and did fine on a few 22 rifles.

 

[BCP]

Is the Razor $400 better than the Cronus? Serious question.

I don't think so. The 5-20 razor was the one I really liked although some on here complained about the eyebox. You can find them for used around a grand and it has all the bells/whistles.

 

[CK1.0]

I only use the tree portion of the reticle for measuring impacts in relation to POA, or holding for wind on rimfire setups that don't have enough elevation. I have no current use for anything above the horizontal stadia. I'm still very much a novice though when it comes to using these types of precision/long range oriented scopes, so some of the features/benefits of them may not be needed for what I want to do or I may just not know enough about how to use them properly.

If you hit shit, you're using the reticle properly.

I just think it comes in handy to be able to use one's reticle like a ruler sometimes, not necessarily while shooting and spotting impacts...

Example: truing my BC at 1000yrds on a big plate, I send a couple and my impacts look a little low, I can clearly see my impact mark and it looks like maybe a couple clicks, or maybe 3, but I can't really measure it using the "meat" of the reticle because the vertical stadia lines are too far apart (coarse measurement)... on the EBR-7C there's a portion towards the top of the reticle (that I don't use normally) that has vertical stadia every 0.1 MRAD, I can use that like a ruler to feed my ballistic calculator the the correct increment and voila! BC updated, no dicking around firing wasteful rounds to figure out what I already should know...

 

[fullsemiauto556]

If you hit shit, you're using the reticle properly.

I just think it comes in handy to be able to use one's reticle like a ruler sometimes, not necessarily while shooting and spotting impacts...

Example: truing my BC at 1000yrds on a big plate, I send a couple and my impacts look a little low, I can clearly see my impact mark and it looks like maybe a couple clicks, or maybe 3, but I can't really measure it using the "meat" of the reticle because the vertical stadia lines are too far apart (coarse measurement)... on the EBR-7C there's a portion towards the top of the reticle (that I don't use normally) that has vertical stadia every 0.1 MRAD, I can use that like a ruler to feed my ballistic calculator the the correct increment and voila! BC updated, no dicking around firing wasteful rounds to figure out what I already should know...

I follow and that sounds logical. Better than buying stuff just because it looks badass.

I'm gonna do some in depth research on different reticles on all of the scopes recommended and others I can think of. Write a list down and research each model with a reticle I like further. See if I come back to the Razor and Cronus or not. I should be ready to make a decision by Christmas.........of 2023.

 

[fdkay]

Haha do some research and you will find out that all 3 scopes are made the same by ome look the same but that's not me saying it look it up. No emotional investment in anything don't even own one now but he wants the best scope he can for the cheapest he can get. So that means all 3 are same cronus is cheaper.

You realize each company specs things differently, right?
Yes, they are built in the same factory. That doesn't mean they are the same.
@koshkin might be able to explain it to you.

 

[Hickswr]

Think spending another $200 for the open box Cronus BTR Gen2 at CameraLand would be worth it?

Absolutely!

 

[Schw15]

You realize each company specs things differently, right?
Yes, they are built in the same factory. That doesn't mean they are the same.
@koshkin might be able to explain it to you.

No I understand that. I know what I'm trying to say you don't get what I'm saying. Look the 3 scopes are so close being the same why not pick the cheaper one that's all I was saying for the sake of the op. But everyone on here has to be so much smarter than everyone and try to educate and I don't need it. Yes everyone has there own specs that what I said before different reticles and the other two offer locking turrets ect. I don't get it why people have to prove something that doesn't need to be proven. You win I was wrong.

 

[fdkay]

No I understand that. I know what I'm trying to say you don't get what I'm saying. Look the 3 scopes are so close being the same why not pick the cheaper one that's all I was saying for the sake of the op. But everyone on here has to be so much smarter than everyone and try to educate and I don't need it. Yes everyone has there own specs that what I said before different reticles and the other two offer locking turrets ect. I don't get it why people have to prove something that doesn't need to be proven. You win I was wrong.

The problem is, you keep insisting they are the same. They are not.
It is not just different reticles, I have a chronus and have used a Gen ii razor. The turret mechanisms are not the same at all.
He'll, the turrets on the Gen 1 chronus and the Gen 2 are different..
you are feeding people inaccurate information.
It's that simple.

 

[fullsemiauto556]

TORIC UHD 4.5-30X56 34mm MRAD ELR FFP Rifle Scope

This extreme long range rifle scope is specifically designed for the shooter looking to maximize the performance of his cartridge.

tractoptics.com

Edgun West | Delta Javelin 4.5-30X56

EDgun West Store - Leshiy 2 Edgun Fenix Epic Airguns Steyr Airguns Airmaks Airms Airgun Technology

www.edgunwest.com

View attachment 7708662

I've heard the Ares ETR was the best Chinese made scope and the Delta Javelin is a rebranded, but upgraded version of the Ares ETR. So for $1049 it sure seems like a really good deal versus the Ares ETR at $1199. Less money and comes with all the goodies I would buy at extra cost (sunshade, flip caps - which are metal = nice, throw lever). The SMR-1 looks to be a nice reticle.

 

[Schw15]

The problem is, you keep insisting they are the same. They are not.
It is not just different reticles, I have a chronus and have used a Gen ii razor. The turret mechanisms are not the same at all.
He'll, the turrets on the Gen 1 chronus and the Gen 2 are different..
you are feeding people inaccurate information.
It's that simple.

Like I said you are smarter and won. I'm not arguing with you. You just don't understand simple minded person that won't listen at all I even gave you proof of others stating they couldn't tell the difference. But it really doesn't matter to me I don't care lol I really don't have a fight in this was only trying to help out and make sure it was within budget but wow it's impossible to even try to help. I guess I have false info I gave false info there's the internet and people can look up stuff so I will leave it at that.

 

[Schw15]

The problem is, you keep insisting they are the same. They are not.
It is not just different reticles, I have a chronus and have used a Gen ii razor. The turret mechanisms are not the same at all.
He'll, the turrets on the Gen 1 chronus and the Gen 2 are different..
you are feeding people inaccurate information.
It's that simple.

Oh I never said anything about the Vortex Gen 2 razor. I was only talking about the cronus delta and tract. Once again you didn't listen and trying to put things there that I never said pointless and stupid argument because you are arguing something totally different than I am.

 

[fdkay]

Oh I never said anything about the Vortex Gen 2 razor. I was only talking about the cronus delta and tract. Once again you didn't listen and trying to put things there that I never said pointless and stupid argument because you are arguing something totally different than I am.

You are right, I think my mistake was when you posted this:
The cronus is lighter and better glass than the razor in my opinion. I know a lot of guys love the razor but I never was to impressed glass wise seemed to get fuzzy after 16 to 18 power.

I conflated your statements. Sorry.
The Vortex is built in the same factory, as is the Chronus, Delta Stryker, Primary Arms Platinum and the XRS the OP already has (plus more, I'm sure).
While they all share a very similar chassis, the internals can be quite different.
I have the latest gen Chronus and the knobs are VERY stiff, the glass seems good, not as good as my SV and the eye box is very tight at high magnification.

 

[Schw15]

You are right, I think my mistake was when you posted this:
The cronus is lighter and better glass than the razor in my opinion. I know a lot of guys love the razor but I never was to impressed glass wise seemed to get fuzzy after 16 to 18 power.

I conflated your statements. Sorry.
The Vortex is built in the same factory, as is the Chronus, Delta Stryker, Primary Arms Platinum and the XRS the OP already has (plus more, I'm sure).
While they all share a very similar chassis, the internals can be quite different.
I have the latest gen Chronus and the knobs are VERY stiff, the glass seems good, not as good as my SV and the eye box is very tight at high magnification.

I'm not saying those 3 scope are the same as they just put different names on them. But out of the cronus delta and tract they share alot of features. They are very close but I was saying the cronus is cheaper at 1399 better deal since there so close. If the tract was the cheaper I'd say the same thing get the tract. That was my point. Since we are not comparing like a Atarc to the cronus there is not big separation in those 3 scopes where one really stands out all 3 are great options and awesome products. Hopefully I cleared up what I was trying to say......

 

[CK1.0]

I actually see the Razor HDG2's 48oz weight as a plus... adding rifle weight can be a PIA sometimes and can get f'ing expensive for dumb weights, and none of these are hunting scopes.

And IMO a good usable reticle is more important than slightly better glass, there are a few popular fancy scopes out there that cost north of $4k and their reticles just plain suck.

 

[Schw15]

(I actually see the Razor HDG2's 48oz weight as a plus... rifle weights are f'ing expensive and none of these are hunting scopes. )

Very true. Usually I dont mind extra weight me personally I run 1 rifle and switch barrels so come time for hunting season I tried to get a scope that wasnt big as a tank for my use lol. But weights are very expensive

 

[fullsemiauto556]

I actually see the Razor HDG2's 48oz weight as a plus... adding rifle weight can be a PIA sometimes and can get f'ing expensive for dumb weights, and none of these are hunting scopes.

And IMO a good usable reticle is more important than slightly better glass, there are a few popular fancy scopes out there that cost north of $4k and their reticles just plain suck.

Agreed. You'd laugh if I told you what all I added into the back end of the KRG for weight. It totaled a few extra pounds and cost me nothing.

I added weight into the bottom of the grip, the area above the removable hook/cover on the bottom and I also removed the LOP spacers and stuffed that full also.

 

[CK1.0]

Yeah, I don't get it really when some companies advertise lower weight with some of these long-range/PRS-style scopes... with the current state of things, if they wanted to sell more scopes, they should probably make them heavier on-purpose and then advertise that!

I almost bought a Leupold MK5 a couple weeks ago just to try something different, but I didn't want to have to duct tape a full tall boy to the side of my rig to make up for the weight difference coming from the Razor hahahaha.

Here's a new idea for a niche if one wants: make a scope mount similar to a Spuhr or MPA mount, but make it out of steel, so it weighs like 3lbs... I'll just want a free one, and 10% of profits ;-)

 

[fullsemiauto556]

Looked pretty hard at different options today. Read more discussions on here. Delta Stryker, Tract Toric, Cronus, Razor, Delta Javelin, Ares ETR, etc.

For top of the line Chinese stuff, I like either the Ares ETR with APRS6 or Delta Javelin SMR-1. But my heart tells me I want to stay with Japanese stuff, now that I've had a good taste of how much the image quality improves. The reticle is my main priority, with price being next. That makes the Cronus my main interest right now. The open box at Cameraland for $1399 saves me $600 over a new Razor and I like the APRS6 reticle the most anyways. I do like the robustness/color/locking turrets of the Razor (and it looks cooler), but when I'm looking through the glass, none of that matters, only the reticle does.

 

[fullsemiauto556]

Today's thought process has been an interesting one. I've went back and forth between the open box Cronus at Cameraland and Arken. I damn near ordered one and then the other.

I've been comparing the scopes on my 3 "precision" rifles the last 2 days at various distances (300/700/1100 yards) and different times of day with low light, overcast and bright sunlight.

CZ 457 22LR - Arken SH4 G2 6-24x50
Noveske 5.56 AR - Bushnell DMRII G3i
Howa .308 - Bushnell XRSII H59

At 300 yards, I don't see much difference. At 700 & 1100 yards the Bushnells are a clearer more defined image and show mirage better, but the Arken doesn't suck necessarily. The reticle isn't a visual clusterf**k that the H59 is and doesn't have the super thick lines of the G3i either. I really don't think I'd have an issue engaging targets with the Arken at those longer shots, but in reality the majority of my shooting is 300 yards max. I don't do any competitions or rough handling with the Noveske or Howa and the 457 is only used in NRL22 (which is definitely not hard use from the matches I've been in).

I really like the Arken reticle, as previously stated and it costs 1/3 of the Cronus open box. Would it be a mortal sin to just put Arkens on all 3 rifles and call it a day? I am a big fan of standardizing stuff after all. I could resell the Bushnells and probably put $800 - $900 back in my pocket at the same time.

If the Arken tracks, the image clarity is acceptable to my eyes and I don't need locking turrets or bomb proof reliability, does it really matter? Why not, right?

Thoughts? Am I an idiot for thinking this way?

 

[CK1.0]

I don't think you're an idiot for wanting another Arken. Their SH4G2, at least in my mind, has sort of redefined what "budget scope" means.

Budget scopes used to mean "barely usable piece of crap", now there's the Arken looking 95% as good as a Razor and having turrets as good or better than anything out there for like $400... just crazy.

I'm not the biggest gear snob though, I judge most stuff pragmatically and try not to consider price too much (and tend to judge things more harshly if I think they're overpriced). I'm sure there are plenty around here who think any glass that costs less than $4k is a "budget scope", and they'd probably feel differently.

 

[Schw15]

Today's thought process has been an interesting one. I've went back and forth between the open box Cronus at Cameraland and Arken. I damn near ordered one and then the other.

I've been comparing the scopes on my 3 "precision" rifles the last 2 days at various distances (300/700/1100 yards) and different times of day with low light, overcast and bright sunlight.

CZ 457 22LR - Arken SH4 G2 6-24x50
Noveske 5.56 AR - Bushnell DMRII G3i
Howa .308 - Bushnell XRSII H59

At 300 yards, I don't see much difference. At 700 & 1100 yards the Bushnells are a clearer more defined image and show mirage better, but the Arken doesn't suck necessarily. The reticle isn't a visual clusterf**k that the H59 is and doesn't have the super thick lines of the G3i either. I really don't think I'd have an issue engaging targets with the Arken at those longer shots, but in reality the majority of my shooting is 300 yards max. I don't do any competitions or rough handling with the Noveske or Howa and the 457 is only used in NRL22 (which is definitely not hard use from the matches I've been in).

I really like the Arken reticle, as previously stated and it costs 1/3 of the Cronus open box. Would it be a mortal sin to just put Arkens on all 3 rifles and call it a day? I am a big fan of standardizing stuff after all. I could resell the Bushnells and probably put $800 - $900 back in my pocket at the same time.

If the Arken tracks, the image clarity is acceptable to my eyes and I don't need locking turrets or bomb proof reliability, does it really matter? Why not, right?

Thoughts? Am I an idiot for thinking this way?

Where are those arken made? Do they have illumination? Right now we live in a great time where $400 to $600 scope are actually really good. Track well. When I first started I had a Athlon midas tac and got to shooting 1 mile. So no not stupid at all. Not all of us are TT or zco lol

 

[fullsemiauto556]

Where are those arken made? Do they have illumination? Right now we live in a great time where $400 to $600 scope are actually really good. Track well. When I first started I had a Athlon midas tac and got to shooting 1 mile. So no not stupid at all. Not all of us are TT or zco lol

Made in China. Yes, illumination.

I have always tried to find products that deliver above their price point. I value the Arken 6-24 at about 2x-2.5x it's price of $449. Does the Cronus or Razor value equal $3200 or $4000? Another example is Larue AR triggers, I have 3 of them and they cost around $80-$90 each. I've compared them to a Geissele I also owned. They were just as nice to me as the Geissele, but were 1/3 of the cost.

I guess what I'm getting at is that I don't necessarily actually "need" a scope that costs $1500-$2000 for what I want to accomplish. I also need to realize/accept that I'm not a competition rifle shooter, I'm not hard on my gear, I don't shoot as much as I'd like and I'm not really competing against anyone but myself. So long as the scope works right and does what it's supposed to do, what else do I need?

I really enjoy this forum, but if I'm being honest, it's pretty easy to feel inadequate when trying to mix it up with the shooters on here that are at a completely different level than me and use their rifles for far more serious use than I do. "Keeping up with the Joneses" has always been a struggle of mine.

 

[Schw15]

Made in China. Yes, illumination.

I have always tried to find products that deliver above their price point. I value the Arken 6-24 at about 2x-2.5x it's price of $449. Does the Cronus or Razor value equal $3200 or $4000? Another example is Larue AR triggers, I have 3 of them and they cost around $80-$90 each. I've compared them to a Geissele I also owned. They were just as nice to me as the Geissele, but were 1/3 of the cost.

I guess what I'm getting at is that I don't necessarily actually "need" a scope that costs $1500-$2000 for what I want to accomplish. I also need to realize/accept that I'm not a competition rifle shooter, I'm not hard on my gear, I don't shoot as much as I'd like and I'm not really competing against anyone but myself. So long as the scope works right and does what it's supposed to do, what else do I need?

I really enjoy this forum, but if I'm being honest, it's pretty easy to feel inadequate when trying to mix it up with the shooters on here that are at a completely different level than me and use their rifles for far more serious use than I do. "Keeping up with the Joneses" has always been a struggle of mine.

I totally agree and see your point. My dad is about the same way and start shooting long range with me. He can afford much better scopes but he started with the Athlon midas tac and still running it. I'd say go for the Arken and enjoy shooting. The cronus is awesome scope and does pack above price point. But just shooting for fun and enjoing your time go cheaper Arken.

 

[fullsemiauto556]

Ordered placed for 2 more Arken scopes with precision pack, flip caps, rings and mount.

 

[CK1.0]

Made in China. Yes, illumination.

I have always tried to find products that deliver above their price point. I value the Arken 6-24 at about 2x-2.5x it's price of $449. Does the Cronus or Razor value equal $3200 or $4000? Another example is Larue AR triggers, I have 3 of them and they cost around $80-$90 each. I've compared them to a Geissele I also owned. They were just as nice to me as the Geissele, but were 1/3 of the cost.

I guess what I'm getting at is that I don't necessarily actually "need" a scope that costs $1500-$2000 for what I want to accomplish. I also need to realize/accept that I'm not a competition rifle shooter, I'm not hard on my gear, I don't shoot as much as I'd like and I'm not really competing against anyone but myself. So long as the scope works right and does what it's supposed to do, what else do I need?

I really enjoy this forum, but if I'm being honest, it's pretty easy to feel inadequate when trying to mix it up with the shooters on here that are at a completely different level than me and use their rifles for far more serious use than I do. "Keeping up with the Joneses" has always been a struggle of mine.

Try not to let the snobbery ruin it for you (at least that's what I tell myself anyways).

When in doubt: put your money on ammo/components. It's more fun, and will make you into a far better shooter than any fancy piece of gear will IMO.

 

[Schw15]

Try not to let the snobbery ruin it for you (at least that's what I tell myself anyways).

When in doubt: put your money on ammo/components. It's more fun, and will make you into a far better shooter than any fancy piece of gear will IMO.

There is alot of that on here or just in general. The only reason I have the minox and some nicer stuff is I sold every rifle and scoped I owned and put it all into one. I only shoot long range though now like 1000 to over 1 mile and then hunt. So I take the rest and buy bullets powder and everything I can just to shoot. There is a saying her "poors" lol I'm one of then haha but I know money can't buy how good you shoot

 

[fullsemiauto556]

Slight change of plans

Keeping the DMRII on the Noveske AR and putting an Arken on my Tippmann 22 rifle instead. I had it scoped for quite awhile before (Athlon Helos gen1). That rifle does fairly well with CCI & Aguila SV. I have a Harrell tuner on order that I want to play around with on it too. It will make for a good training rifle to the Noveske. The G3i reticle in the DRMII is a little thicker for precision work than I'd prefer, but I'm also not seeing any issues using it for such task and the reticle is really simple along with the illumination being daylight bright.

The XRSII is still going to be sold off.