Xtreme Sniper Match...Xtreme Disappointment

Re: Xtreme Sniper Match...Xtreme Disappointment

I can't believe this turned into a 5 star thread. Bruce and his competitions are forever burned.

Ryan, I never heard to talk like this. You can be one hell of a funny motha.
 
Re: Xtreme Sniper Match...Xtreme Disappointment

I'm doing an Xtreme Mall Ninja class.

Any takers?
grin.gif


(I'm making fun of Bruce)
 
Re: Xtreme Sniper Match...Xtreme Disappointment

His entire crew were not idiots though. I liked the two oldest shooters out of the group, and one of the ROs was way cool. So don't burn his entire crew up.

What's that saying, don't let that one bad apple spoil the entire bunch.
 
Re: Xtreme Sniper Match...Xtreme Disappointment

I only had issues with our RO, the other RO that you guys had seemed cool. Our guy clearly had ZERO experience running a line. He spoke in a soft voice and never used any standard range commands. he didn't try to confirm that we heard or understood anything. We had to ask him <span style="font-style: italic">every single time</span> if it was OK to shoot because he wasn't clear. He also was picking on us for asking him to speak up, and tattling on us too for moving.

Hahaha, whatever, he's not <span style="font-style: italic">supposed</span> to let us "cheat" and if moving was cheating then he did his job. Too bad he didn't do the <span style="font-style: italic">rest</span> of his job as effectively!
 
Re: Xtreme Sniper Match...Xtreme Disappointment

DF you are a hell of a good guy! You offer to pay back guys that got burned out of 100 NOT because of you but just based on your recommendation. Damn that shows integrity and intestinal fortitude and I am impressed. Now if the Jackass that actually needs to pay them back would pony up. I may have never met you DF but you are tops in my book and hope that there are more people like you in this community than like the other. Please PM me when ever you hold another class or if you just need anything and I will be there with bells on.
 
Re: Xtreme Sniper Match...Xtreme Disappointment

It's not necessarily his fault either. Both ROs were under Bruce, and it seemed like they were doing him a favor. I didn't have a clear indicator of when to shoot, but I didn't blame him for it. Bruce should have gone over the protocal with both of them. In addition, Bruce did say to not move from your original spot. Threfore, it's Bruce that you have an issue with not that RO. Again, it goes back to Bruce. It's his match and his rules that we have an issue with. Don't kill the messengers. I'm sure if we all sat around and just BSed with all of Bruce's crew they were all cool guys. It's Bruce and his match that has issues.
 
Re: Xtreme Sniper Match...Xtreme Disappointment

DF and Timber are good guys. I don't blame them for me attending the match. It was our choice. We won't go next year. Just leave it at that and let's all move on.
 
Re: Xtreme Sniper Match...Xtreme Disappointment

WOW...

I was supposed to be RK's partner and couldn't make it for personal reasons. Looks like I dodged a bullet. I'm very sorry to hear about the bad experiences.

I know Bruce and I believe him to be an honest man but maybe he should review the match and possibly refund the money to those who felt cheated. RK's not a trouble maker and wouldn't call BS if it don't stink... in fact RK has a cool head and serious skill with his rifle.

I'm not interested in taking sides, I wasn't there. This should be resolved as gentlemen, our shooting sports take a beating enough from the outside, we need to maintain a solid community.

Hugs.




 
Re: Xtreme Sniper Match...Xtreme Disappointment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M.45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I'm not interested in taking sides, I wasn't there. This should be resolved as gentlemen, our shooting sports take a beating enough from the outside, we need to maintain a solid community.

Hugs.

</div></div>

Part of maintaining a solid community is weeding out the bullshit, however uncomfortable some of that process may be for whatever bullshit in question happens to be.
 
Re: Xtreme Sniper Match...Xtreme Disappointment

Shit happens DF...at least it was the wrong guy you were talking about and not Bruce.

Well boys looks like a Hide member called down to Pendelton to confirm that Bruce did not go through SS school.

Sweet link BT.
 
Re: Xtreme Sniper Match...Xtreme Disappointment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's not necessarily his fault either. Both ROs were under Bruce, and it seemed like they were doing him a favor. I didn't have a clear indicator of when to shoot, but I didn't blame him for it. Bruce should have gone over the protocal with both of them. In addition, Bruce did say to not move from your original spot. Threfore, it's Bruce that you have an issue with not that RO. Again, it goes back to Bruce. It's his match and his rules that we have an issue with. Don't kill the messengers. I'm sure if we all sat around and just BSed with all of Bruce's crew they were all cool guys. It's Bruce and his match that has issues.</div></div>


I dont think they were doing him a favor... I'm 99% sure they were paid to be there.

Don't misunderstand, its a<span style="font-style: italic">bsolutely</span> Bruce I have the issues with. But the RO's lack of competence was annoying.

Remember this is all because of how this match was billed and cost. I was expecting a very professional operation. If I had only paid $25 and been less than 50 miles from home... well no big deal. But Bruce played this thing up so high and it didn't live up to the hype on any level.
 
Re: Xtreme Sniper Match...Xtreme Disappointment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Novadesigns</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's not necessarily his fault either. Both ROs were under Bruce, and it seemed like they were doing him a favor. I didn't have a clear indicator of when to shoot, but I didn't blame him for it. Bruce should have gone over the protocal with both of them. In addition, Bruce did say to not move from your original spot. Threfore, it's Bruce that you have an issue with not that RO. Again, it goes back to Bruce. It's his match and his rules that we have an issue with. Don't kill the messengers. I'm sure if we all sat around and just BSed with all of Bruce's crew they were all cool guys. It's Bruce and his match that has issues.</div></div>


I dont think they were doing him a favor... I'm 99% sure they were paid to be there.

Don't misunderstand, its a<span style="font-style: italic">bsolutely</span> Bruce I have the issues with. But the RO's lack of competence was annoying.

Remember this is all because of how this match was billed and cost. I was expecting a very professional operation. If I had only paid $25 and been less than 50 miles from home... well no big deal. But Bruce played this thing up so high and it didn't live up to the hype on any level. </div></div>

I'm with you 100%. But, the ROs did not get paid. They did get some food and a cool shirt though.
grin.gif


They were there on a favor. At least that one guy I talked to did.
 
Re: Xtreme Sniper Match...Xtreme Disappointment

This was an email sent to Timberwolf...he posted this on Cal Guns so I figure I would post it here as well...talk about an asshole.

Notice all the references to Sniper School and what not.

Bill,

You guys should put together a group of 20 volunteers
and do your own tournament as someone suggested.

Of course, none of these guys can participate because
because that would be a conflict of interest. So, who
will be shooting at your competition?

With that kind of participation, you could place all of
your targets out in the boonies and have people camp
out and keep them from getting stolen.

There were about 16 shooters. 8 or so of them, that
I had trained, understood the value of focusing on the
basics, accepted responsibility for choice of a bad shooting
position if they did this, and really liked the competition.

And, then there was your group. You guys seem to like
a "game", because you all didn't seem to care that your
shooting fell far short of what it should have been if you
were all as good as you say. You did think that humping
was important (it isn't), I should have supplied sandwiches
and drinks (maybe a massage and a hand job would also
have made the competition more popular, and a big prize bank.
Your group did also not seem to recognize that the challenge coins
I provided are exactly what most of the real "community" uses to identify
the insiders.

Like I said, anything can be improved, I am constantly working
to improve, and I have hundreds of notes about things that I will change.
Hard to prevent downtime under those conditions. I shot a 1000 yard match
at Desert Marksman. You should 40 rounds over an 8 hour period.
You pulled targets for 4 hours, had a lunch break of 1 hour, spotted for
two hours, shot for about 2 hours. I have a detailed schedule and
your actual shooting was about 2 hours in my competition. And, real
snipers might have to sit for 2 days to get a shot. Patience is part of
the virtue of a real sniper. I can remember waiting all day for a shot
at the Sniper School. And, I couldn't move once I set up the shot because
there were guys looking for me.

The point is that there are plenty of people who will
like the kind of competition that I have constructed since
they know that everything depends on their own skills.

Regardless of what you guys want to think, I am far
more experienced than most of your guys. And, I plan
to go my own way. I've done my whole like like that and
don't plan to stop at this age.

Bill Skiles starts teaching for me again next year. He is
currently NCOIC of Marksmanship for the Marines -- including
the Camp Perry matches and the Sniper Shools. He is
really picky about who he trains for, and he has done
many classes for me because he respects me and trained me.

I won't bother informing you guys. Obviously, you guys don't
need any training because you know it all.

Best of luck to you and your group.
I went ahead and removed all of you from my e-mail list.

Bruce"
 
Re: Xtreme Sniper Match...Xtreme Disappointment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Vu</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shit happens DF...at least it was the wrong guy you were talking about and not Bruce.

Well boys looks like a Hide member called down to Pendelton to confirm that Bruce did not go through SS school.

Sweet link BT. </div></div>

LOOKS LIKE SOMEONE JUST SHIT IN HIS CEREAL! BONG!
 
Re: Xtreme Sniper Match...Xtreme Disappointment

That's what I didn't want to happen. Us vs Them.

Again, some of the guys that I talked to were way cool. I liked them alot. It's too bad that Bruce has a heavy influence on them.

Let him go on his own way and do his own thing.
 
Re: Xtreme Sniper Match...Xtreme Disappointment

Pistol,

The only beef I see here is rksimple telling us about this, it getting confirmed, a failed businessman getting caught and trying to do damage control, and the backlash he is causing is just his way of throwing a temper tantrum.

I just hope that sooner than later he decides to take notes, and try to be more of an asset to the community than a hinderance.
 
Re: Xtreme Sniper Match...Xtreme Disappointment

Pete,

Letting him rip off more shooters is just as bad as ripping them off yourself.

I am glad Ryan stepped up and fired it up. Lets people know to not pull this type of shit around here.
 
Re: Xtreme Sniper Match...Xtreme Disappointment

I don't think anyone will go to his match.

His guys don't know, cause they never went to another match. Once they do, Bruce won't have anyone left. Bruce is doing this to himself. It's called Karma.
 
Re: Xtreme Sniper Match...Xtreme Disappointment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Novadesigns</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Its not us vs them... its the shooting community vs him for the benefit of all shooters, especially those new to the sport. </div></div>

Amen to that and honestly had Brice stepped foward and honed up to it and used this as a learning experience instead of covering his own ineptness with insults it'd be different but thats just isn't what happend. I tried to tactfully point a couple of things out to him and got insulted for it. I replied to the posted email but have yet to rec a reply . . . and doubt I will.

I hate to say it but someone used the term somewhere about this that he (Bruce) was a snake oil salesman . . . I have to agree. A poser with a marketing ploy who got caught.
 
Re: Xtreme Sniper Match...Xtreme Disappointment

Actually the majority of those posting <span style="font-style: italic">were</span> there, or know the guy in question, including me. What's different about this situation is that we are using it to warn the community about a bad deal.

I think we've done that, so it the mods feel it should be closed they should contact the OP and let him know what they are going to do.
 
Re: Xtreme Sniper Match...Xtreme Disappointment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rksimple</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You're spot on Pete. His crew doesn't know any better. They think he's the sniper god. They really need to hit some good matches...and lay off the Halo... </div></div>

Untrue. Ryan, please lay off the insults. You guys had a bad time, and you're laying out your case, which is totally fine, but it's kind of bad form to pack everyone who had a decent time into a box and label us as sycophantic followers. I'm not disagreeing that more matches wouldn't be a great thing, I'd like to be involved. I think it would be a lot of fun and a learning experience.

But dude, please, keep the seething anger pointed away from those that had nothing to do with your issues regarding the match.
 
Re: Xtreme Sniper Match...Xtreme Disappointment

This was your first match. You don't have anything against which to compare this match. You don't know any better. And you go on about how cool this match was. Compared to what? Shoot a few real matches and then re-eval what a fucking joke this was.

And they weren't just my issues. There were plenty of us. Don't fool yourself.
 
Re: Xtreme Sniper Match...Xtreme Disappointment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SoundFx</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rksimple</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You're spot on Pete. His crew doesn't know any better. They think he's the sniper god. They really need to hit some good matches...and lay off the Halo... </div></div>

Untrue. Ryan, please lay off the insults. You guys had a bad time, and you're laying out your case, which is totally fine, but it's kind of bad form to pack everyone who had a decent time into a box and label us as sycophantic followers. I'm not disagreeing that more matches wouldn't be a great thing, I'd like to be involved. I think it would be a lot of fun and a learning experience.

But dude, please, keep the seething anger pointed away from those that had nothing to do with your issues regarding the match. </div></div>


You are missing the point we didn't have a bad time, we got sold a bad bill of goods and we're pissed. On top of it when called out instead of the MD cowboying up we were insulted. If you want to see how things should be run I cordially invite you to any of the matches at APS (the HP is closed for the 08 season and doesn't start until 01/09 but the 22LR LR Tact match is this Sat at 12:00 noon); WEGC or Saco.

Ah hell, I'll do one better . . . grab a scoped 22LR rifle, 100 rds of match ammo & come on out to APS this Sat and you can shoot the match as my guest.
 
Re: Xtreme Sniper Match...Xtreme Disappointment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Timberwolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You are missing the point we didn't have a bad time, we got sold a bad bill of goods and we're pissed. On top of it when called out instead of the MD cowboying up we were insulted. If you want to see how things should be run I cordially invite you to any of the matches at APS (the HP is closed for the 08 season and doesn't start until 01/09 but the 22LR LR Tact match is this Sat at 12:00 noon); WEGC or Saco.

Ah hell, I'll do one better . . . grab a scoped 22LR rifle, 100 rds of match ammo & come on out to APS this Sat and you can shoot the match as my guest. </div></div>

Thank you for the offer. Can't take you up on the one for this weekend, as I only have a single .308 bolt gun right now (M2008 build at GAP now!), and I'm on a busy show for several weeks. No rimfire rifles or pistols anymore. But, I'd like to take you up on your offer of attending future matches, for sure.
 
Re: Xtreme Sniper Match...Xtreme Disappointment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Timberwolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SoundFx</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rksimple</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You're spot on Pete. His crew doesn't know any better. They think he's the sniper god. They really need to hit some good matches...and lay off the Halo... </div></div>

Untrue. Ryan, please lay off the insults. You guys had a bad time, and you're laying out your case, which is totally fine, but it's kind of bad form to pack everyone who had a decent time into a box and label us as sycophantic followers. I'm not disagreeing that more matches wouldn't be a great thing, I'd like to be involved. I think it would be a lot of fun and a learning experience.

But dude, please, keep the seething anger pointed away from those that had nothing to do with your issues regarding the match. </div></div>


You are missing the point we didn't have a bad time, we got sold a bad bill of goods and we're pissed. On top of it when called out instead of the MD cowboying up we were insulted. If you want to see how things should be run I cordially invite you to any of the matches at APS (the HP is closed for the 08 season and doesn't start until 01/09 but the 22LR LR Tact match is this Sat at 12:00 noon); WEGC or Saco.

Ah hell, I'll do one better . . . grab a scoped 22LR rifle, 100 rds of match ammo & come on out to APS this Sat and you can shoot the match as my guest. </div></div>

This is one of the benefits of Hide membership that often goes overlooked and underappreciated.

 
Re: Xtreme Sniper Match...Xtreme Disappointment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Torfinn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is one of the benefits of Hide membership that often goes overlooked and underappreciated.

</div></div>

Which?...finding out who the scammers are or MD's stepping up and offering a real match?
smile.gif


Seriously SFX, go to a few of Bills matches. Come January, they'll be on in full force. For 25 bucks he does a hell of a lot with the APS range. He's a great MD and everything is clear, no ego, no incompetence, and most importantly, everything is safe. I'm sorry if I come across as harsh, SFX.

Good on ya Bill.
 
Re: Xtreme Sniper Match...Xtreme Disappointment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Adam B.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Whats this new kimber I hear so much about? </div></div>

8400 Tactical - I couldn't resist its sleek toned body, its sultry features, its begonning receiver, its flowing lines . . .
 
Re: Xtreme Sniper Match...Xtreme Disappointment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Timberwolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
rksimple Seriously SFX said:
Never have I felt unsafe. The 180 rule is in force despite the shooting postion, be it fixed or moving. Even when we low crawl, transition, move, run etc. actions are open and muzzles in a safe direction.
 
Re: Xtreme Sniper Match...Xtreme Disappointment

Hi:
I just sat thru all 14 pages could that be "Xtreme-Reading".For the $100.00 that could have been 4 boxes of match ammo and some great shooting on some BLM land in Oregon where I live.Could this guy have the Better Business Bureau come after him? Or do think that the BBB
would shy away for what the sport was?.Here is there link.
http://welcome.bbb.org/

Thanks
Scott Hannah