Rifle Scopes Yet another "What scope to buy?" question...

texas_vet00

texas_vet00

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Minuteman
    • Feb 24, 2010
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    TX
    #1
    Browning BAR LongTrac Stalker 30.06 sitting NIB...
    Need a hunting scope for out to 400yds...not that good of a shot as to risk wounding...
    Budget is $1,500 tops for scope and mount/rings...
    Illuminated...
    Turning 50 in April but not wearing glasses yet...
     
    #3
    Re: Yet another "What scope to buy?" question...

    I just looked through the new Bushnell DOA series, a buddy bought one, and it is awesome. The reticle is nice, glass is clear, he has a 4-12X40 and you could probably buy another gun with what you save.

    He was telling me that the reticle gets sighted in at 100yds and then it has bullet drops out to 600yds for most popular calibers. There also small horizontal lines on the vertical bullet drop lines that are set at 24", which is typical ear span on a mule deer, and 17", which is typical ear span on a whitetail deer", but anyhow. He and his son used it last year. He said that Nich, the son, was looking at a doe and used the ear span lines to help range. Nick told him that the scope was saying the doe was 200yds out and he hit it with the range finder, which showed 204yds.

    Just info that I have recieved, I know that I would not hesitate to purchase one for my hunting rifle.
     
    #5
    Re: Yet another "What scope to buy?" question...

    Thanks folks...sounds like I am possibly planning on over-spending here...if there is such a thing as an "emotional buy" then I already own several scopes...this is an infectious hobby I must say!
     
    #6
    Re: Yet another "What scope to buy?" question...

    FFP or SFP scope?

    $1500 puts you into some very nice SFP Nightforce scopes. If you want FFP three is the Vortex PST below that or you go up to the Vortex Razor, Nightforce F-1, US Optics, S & B, etc
     
    #7
    Re: Yet another "What scope to buy?" question...

    Truth be told I am only used to the Leupold Vari-X III from a few years back (which I have on all my deer rifles) so this whole FFP/SFP thing is new to me...not to slap the hornet nest but I am still learning which is better and why...

    Ranging with the scope is something new to me btw...and I have been told that mil-dot is not for novice and not for moving targets...

    How's that for some admissions?
    smile.gif
     
    #8
    Re: Yet another "What scope to buy?" question...

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TexasVet</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> FFP/SFP thing is new to me...
    smile.gif
    </div></div>

    FFP means that the reticle is small and fine at say 4.5x and would grow as you incresed magnification to say 14x. That means the reticle changes size, with the magnification level, making milling targets consistent, through out the power range of the scope.


    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TexasVet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    Ranging with the scope is something new to me btw...and I have been told that mil-dot is not for novice and not for moving targets...</div></div>

    Ignorance is bliss, unless your holding a rifle. One math equation, though there are several, is all you need to memorize to always be able mil targets, as long as you know the size of the targe. Find the equation below that applies to your scope/situation.

    This is the equation that I use, as it requires the least amount of math:

    Object size (in) x 27.77 divided by mils read = distance in yards

    Here are a bunch of others that do the same thing.

    Target size (in yards) x 1000 / Mils read = yards to target

    Target size (in meters) x 1000 / Mils read = meters to target


    For Meters:

    Object size (in) divided by 39 x 1000 divided by mils read

    Object size (in) x 25.4 divided by mils read

    For Yards:

    Object size (in) divided by 36 x 1000 divided by mils read

    Object size (in) x 27.77 divided by mils read

    Hitting moving targets when you know your hold offs, is far easier when you have hold off points on the scope, and accurate measurements built in to your reticle.

    So the differance milling targets using a FFP and SFP are, that a SFP scope is only accurate at one power seting, typically the highest magnification.
     
    #9
    Re: Yet another "What scope to buy?" question...

    Don't know about you but here in south Texas most deer I see are from 25 to 100 yards....and sometimes there are so many on the road you have to drive slow. After using many scopes my favorite for hunting is a 1.5-6 Burris XTR. At 1.5 it is very useful and at 6 I have killed small critters at 800 yards. So I would say...don't over magnify. I walk up on a lot of my shots at deer and if I didn't walk with it cranked down to 1.5 I would be sorry....so just saying.....The expensive glass comes into play when you need to range with a scope or want to make quick successive shots at various distances.

    I say dispatch animals humanely and shoot at insurgents with reckless abandon!!
    smile.gif


    Tons of scopes in the $4-600 range are fine for hunting. I'm all for FFP...in its correct application. But shooting at critters at distance...everyone uses a rangefinder.
     
    #10
    Re: Yet another "What scope to buy?" question...

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ZmanwithaGinhand</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just looked through the new Bushnell DOA series, a buddy bought one, and it is awesome. The reticle is nice, glass is clear, he has a 4-12X40 and you could probably buy another gun with what you save.

    He was telling me that the reticle gets sighted in at 100yds and then it has bullet drops out to 600yds for most popular calibers. There also small horizontal lines on the vertical bullet drop lines that are set at 24", which is typical ear span on a mule deer, and 17", which is typical ear span on a whitetail deer", but anyhow. He and his son used it last year. He said that Nich, the son, was looking at a doe and used the ear span lines to help range. Nick told him that the scope was saying the doe was 200yds out and he hit it with the range finder, which showed 204yds.

    Just info that I have recieved, I know that I would not
    hesitate to purchase one for my hunting rifle. </div></div>

    What Bushnell series did he have? I am looking for a cheaper scope to put on a 30-06 jammaster.
     
    #11
    Re: Yet another "What scope to buy?" question...

    My vote would be to get a used NF 2.5-10 and some used NF rings as well.Incredible scope for the money.They ooze with quality,are illuminated,are light weight,can be had with their velocity reticle for quick shot holdovers,turrets track well,glass is excellent.I can't say enough good about mine.Every time I use it I'm impressed.

    Steve
     
    #12
    Re: Yet another "What scope to buy?" question...

    I'm not a hunter, but I'll throw in my $.02. Get a mil dot scope instead of the BDC scopes UNLESS you are shooting a very specific load that exactly matches your BDC reticle.

    The advantages of a mil dot, IMHO, far outweigh anything a BDC gives you. The ability to range a target is money and its not that hard to learn. But even if you don't use the reticle to range, the mil dots themselves become BDC holdover and windage references for a quick shot as long as you've gone out and shot at various ranges and figured out your dope. For instance, if your scope is zero'd at 100yds but you have a 400 yd shot at a deer AND you know from range work that 400 yds is 2.2 mils up from zero - just stick your aimpoint on the 2 mil and a smidge extra hash mark or dot below the crosshair and pull the trigger. Holding over is not as precise as dialing the numbers in, but for a fleeting shot, it works very well.
     
    #13
    Re: Yet another "What scope to buy?" question...

    ReaperDriver,

    I agree with you to a point about using mils(which I prefer over MOA) vs "standard BDC reticles" but...Standard BDC's are generic and don't work the greatest all the time.As a matter of fact I was preaching the same thing 6 months ago as you.

    See Nightforce has 3 ballistic reticles to choose from.So you go to their websight and use their program to calculate which velocity range and BC the cartridge you plan to shoot has.

    For instance I bought their LV-low velocity reticle which is dedicated to my 223 carbine.I sighted in at the distance they prescribed and was only off 1/2MOA at 600Y.At the closer ranges 200,300 and out to 400Y it was dead on.Since then I tuned the sight in range and dropped the load 30fps and it's dead on out to 600Y which is as far as I plan on holding over.You can always dial if you need to for any distance.

    Believe me the new NF ballistic ret's work allot better than you might think and out to 400Y,the trajectory will match well.It's when you start shooting past 500Y is where atmospherics and altitude start playing a bigger part in the equation.

    Steve
     
    #14
    Re: Yet another "What scope to buy?" question...

    Out to about 600 yards, you don't need a ballistic reticle at all - because the dope doesn't change enough with conditions to warrant it. Just memorize the dope.

    It's precisely at the distances where you need a ballistic reticle that they won't work - at the distances where altitude, barometric pressure, and temperature mean that you must pay attention to the conditions.

    A BDC is a waste of money. Inside 600 yards, memorize the dope, or tape it inside your rear scope cap. Beyond that, the BDC will usually be wrong, and you have to pay attention to how much it's wrong.
     
    #15
    Re: Yet another "What scope to buy?" question...

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ReaperDriver,

    I agree with you to a point about using mils(which I prefer over MOA) vs "standard BDC reticles" but...Standard BDC's are generic and don't work the greatest all the time.As a matter of fact I was preaching the same thing 6 months ago as you.

    See Nightforce has 3 ballistic reticles to choose from.So you go to their websight and use their program to calculate which velocity range and BC the cartridge you plan to shoot has.

    For instance I bought their LV-low velocity reticle which is dedicated to my 223 carbine.I sighted in at the distance they prescribed and was only off 1/2MOA at 600Y.At the closer ranges 200,300 and out to 400Y it was dead on.Since then I tuned the sight in range and dropped the load 30fps and it's dead on out to 600Y which is as far as I plan on holding over.You can always dial if you need to for any distance.

    Believe me the new NF ballistic ret's work allot better than you might think and out to 400Y,the trajectory will match well.It's when you start shooting past 500Y is where atmospherics and altitude start playing a bigger part in the equation.

    Steve


    </div></div>
    so what you're saying is that load and that load only will work with your scope?
     
    #16
    Re: Yet another "What scope to buy?" question...

    Just guessing but TexasVet probably doesn't know how to use mildots or MOA reticles.He's not even sure what scope to get, let alone reticle.

    I admit as an all around scope a FFP mil/mil scope is hard to beat.However....

    In my case I have to disagree.I'm glad I spent the money for My NF with the ballistic reticle and I'd do it over again.The system works extremely good since I'm using it at close to the same altitude all the time.It's still faster and easier than having to look at a data card and find the correct hash mark in another type reticle.Since it's plainly marked in my NF scope 2-3-4-5-6 for 100Y and 50Y increments,it's easy.It's also a pleasure to use.Almost boring in fact.I've also found the 5mph and 10 mph wind marks in the reticle to be a great asset,pretty much dead on.I need that for my 223 carbine.

    The OP stated he'd be using his scope out to 400Y for hunting.So that's around .2"-.3" difference in drop at 400Y between sea level and 7000'.For a person without much experience in long range these NF ballistic reticles are ideal.Especially for him.All he has to do is push the button on the rangefinder and place the line in the scope on the animal,for the distance ranged,and fire.

    One can always dial for any distance and use the main cross hair.

    Anyhow...to the OP.IMO,NF scopes are the best value I've seen for the quality.They even put the correct knobs on,lol."inside joke"

    Steve







     
    #17
    Re: Yet another "What scope to buy?" question...

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ReaperDriver</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ReaperDriver,

    I agree with you to a point about using mils(which I prefer over MOA) vs "standard BDC reticles" but...Standard BDC's are generic and don't work the greatest all the time.As a matter of fact I was preaching the same thing 6 months ago as you.

    See Nightforce has 3 ballistic reticles to choose from.So you go to their websight and use their program to calculate which velocity range and BC the cartridge you plan to shoot has.

    For instance I bought their LV-low velocity reticle which is dedicated to my 223 carbine.I sighted in at the distance they prescribed and was only off 1/2MOA at 600Y.At the closer ranges 200,300 and out to 400Y it was dead on.Since then I tuned the sight in range and dropped the load 30fps and it's dead on out to 600Y which is as far as I plan on holding over.You can always dial if you need to for any distance.

    Believe me the new NF ballistic ret's work allot better than you might think and out to 400Y,the trajectory will match well.It's when you start shooting past 500Y is where atmospherics and altitude start playing a bigger part in the equation.

    Steve


    </div></div>
    so what you're saying is that load and that load only will work with your scope? </div></div>

    No,all I have to do is sight in at a different distance depending on BC and velocity "but" within a specific velocity range.You can even use different cartridges as long as the velocities are similar.For instance 308 and 223 with heavy bullets.

    Go to their website and play around with their calculator and you will see what I'm talking about.

    Oh,By the way I should have mentioned that I prefer FFP mil/mil scopes over any others.They are my favorite by far.I just wanted to make my point for the NF BR system.They do work.

    Steve
     
    #18
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