You effing did what to your carbine....

[pmclaine]

I took the 8X optic off replaced it with a TA33 ACOG, filled the lower rail with a flashlight so I can no longer run a bipod and added a foregrip for some support when shooting while standing like God wanted his chosen species to do....

Left some open rail on the left as I get upset if I lose brass for reloading. Have to catch it somehow....

Now all I care about is hitting steel and as long as after I squeeze the trigger I get the sound of metal whacking metal its all good, better than good in fact...

Now to trim up the .308 AR by putting the USO 1-8X that was on this on to its bigger brother.

 

[wade2big]

Still to much crap on that rifle OP. This is how I trim the fat.

 

[Sieg]

You put a colostomy bag on your rifle.

 

[308pirate]

How do you turn the light on?

 

[powdahound76]

Looks very nice.
I get the brass bag for range time. Brass goes everywhere and worse if running any drills with movement.

I have been listening to AJ and have bought a little ammo..... and am now saving to build some uppers.

I was thinking of running a light on the side as I seen many do (also would be out of the way if shooting off a barrier), what led you to putting the lighton the bottom?

Im always lookin to learn.

 

[pmclaine]

You put a colostomy bag on your rifle.

Dude when I started reloading where the spent brass impacted became as important as where the projectile impacted.

 

[pmclaine]

Looks very nice.
I get the brass bag for range time. Brass goes everywhere and worse if running any drills with movement.

I have been listening to AJ and have bought a little ammo..... and am now saving to build some uppers.

I was thinking of running a light on the side as I seen many do (also would be out of the way if shooting off a barrier), what led you to putting the lighton the bottom?

Im always lookin to learn.

Im not sold on bottom position (er I mean....).

Truth be told Im thinking front right rail.

Ive got a class in January, nother in May, where I will play with location on the light.

Shooting the other day for "precision" shots I was using a roof column, left and right side, for support so bottom of the rail worked than.

Actually working the light its a little easier when on the front of the right rail. I am a right side shooter so my support hand can bump or flip the switch. I think when I got home and went through my rail covers/messed with my sling I may have moved the light back to the right rail.

Im messing with how I run my sling. Right now I QD to the front of the left rail than QD to the right side at the SopMod stock. Again only class time will tell me if that works.

Interested in hearing what works for others.

 

[pmclaine]

How do you turn the light on?

The light works with support hand by either bumping it for temp on or if you want you can flip the switch for constant on.

Unsure if I want to run a tape switch anywhere, seems "extra". Would have preferred a Scout type light but bought the X300 at a great price on here and if it doesnt stay on the AR it could be transitioned to a M45A1.

Never really used the foregrip before so I dont know if its staying. A friends unit was throwing away KAC deployment kits (my fucking tax money at work) and I ended up getting a complete array of KAC plastic shit. The foregrip does feel good for pulling the little rifle into the shoulder and its handy if you are looking over the rifle and scanning. Less fatigue keeping things pulled into the body rather than having my support arm more extended. Ill suffer that issue if I have to use the light unless I get a tape switch.

Still messing with set up. Not digging that KAC rail covers only lock in on one or two places in the rail other wise they ride fore and aft at will. May try to sand down some LMT covers for a custom stippling project and cut to necessary size when I figure final setup. At least the LMT/Tango down rails lock into any desired recoil lug on the rail.

 

[wade2big]

OP buy some cheap wolf steel case ammo and ditch the bag. You can buy that stuff cheaper than what you can reload for and you dont have to chase brass or put that damn bag on your rifle. If you dont want to do that you can buy brass ammo for just a few pennies more and still cheaper than what you are loading for. You also wont have your time in it. If you lose a piece of brass oh well. Even the steel case stuff will be accurate enough to do what a carbine needs to do if you arent bench rest shooting the thing.

 

[Sixfivesavage]

Try moving the front buis back a tad and put the surefire up top in front of it. I run mine that way, works great.

 

[Precision Underground]

Dude, you got too much crap on your AR. Thats my all time favorite name for a youtube video

 

[Sieg]

Dude when I started reloading where the spent brass impacted became as imported as where the projectile impacted.

Just picking on you in jest. I'm also a brass scavenger and chose 9mm 115g over 124g because of the ejection patterns.

 

[pmclaine]

OP buy some cheap wolf steel case ammo and ditch the bag. You can buy that stuff cheaper than what you can reload for and you dont have to chase brass or put that damn bag on your rifle. If you dont want to do that you can buy brass ammo for just a few pennies more and still cheaper than what you are loading for. You also wont have your time in it. If you lose a piece of brass oh well. Even the steel case stuff will be accurate enough to do what a carbine needs to do if you arent bench rest shooting the thing.

Well in its old config I shot mainly 77s. Also reloading for a 5.56 bolt so I still run 77s. Planning on bulk buying cans of 55 for classes. Your point is valid until the next firearms confiscation scare comes along.

 

[pmclaine]

Just picking on you in jest. I'm also a brass scavenger and chose 9mm 115g over 124g because of the ejection patterns.

No insult perceived. My response was also in jest.

 

[wade2big]

Well in its old config I shot mainly 77s. Also reloading for a 5.56 bolt so I still run 77s. Planning on bulk buying cans of 55 for classes. Your point is valid until the next firearms confiscation scare comes along.

In that case reloading is tough too. Some people stock reloading components. I stock up on ammunition. As far as im concerned, match grade ammunition and mechanical accuracy is of little concern in a fighting carbine when volume of fire wins out. I do appreciate the precision in a purpose built bolt action or semi auto though.

 

[MtnCreek]

...

View attachment 6972137
...

Metal follower in that mag?

 

[pmclaine]

Metal follower in that mag?

Yes. Good eye.

 

[pmclaine]

Try moving the front buis back a tad and put the surefire up top in front of it. I run mine that way, works great. View attachment 6972912

Good idea.

Ill have to see if my KAC is big enough to work over the X300.

Looks like you are using LMT BUIS.

 

[TheGerman]

Hello, and welcome to 2004

I could never get into adjustable optics on a carbine; I know the argument of not really being able to make shit out at 200+ yards and wanting an optic with some magnification, but for real world use its just never worked for me. Combat shooting with a carbine is speed first, rounds on/towards target - adding a heavier variable optic that I then may need to adjust or fuck around with on the fly as well as an eyebox that is finicky/unforgiving and introduces a shit ton of parallax into the system just doesn't help.

Yes I know there's 3 gunner people out there with optics, but its not the same thing as they are set up for something very specific whereas I can be shooting at shit I can't see, shooting at 20 yards in a hallway, out of a vehicle or just putting rounds downrange in between bounds. Go sprint 40 yards, get behind whatever cover you designated at the start of the bound, get down onto whatever the terrain is when you get there and put some rounds out at your target for a few seconds until you have to get up and do it again and let me know how that magnified optic is working for you when you're spending all your time trying to get the correct eye relief and scope/eye alignment.

I have a night time and a day time carbine, but both could be used for either.

My daytime/go to gun was originally a Stag flat top from 14+ years ago. The only original parts on the entire gun are the lower and upper receiver and the buffer tube. It's on its 6th or 7th barrel. Now has a KAC 14 inch rail, midlength gas system, KAC MAMS, Geiselle trigger, TD grip, Magpul stock, BFG sling and TA33 ACOG with RMR on top. Surefire light at 10 o clock with a click button on the back as I prefer positive control over the light as opposed to a tape switch that can be bumped. PEQ15 at the 12 o clock with a tape switch about 2/5 of the way back on the 2 o clock.

My night gun is set up the exact same way except it has an Aimpoint T1 micro on a KAC riser for passive aiming with an ANVIS 9 on and the Surefire light has a manual lock out on the bezel as well as an IR setting.

 

[Sixfivesavage]

Good idea.

Ill have to see if my KAC is big enough to work over the X300.

Looks like you are using LMT BUIS.

Yup, I am. Another gun had a set of troy buis that worked fine and another had LMT fixed irons that work.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Hello, and welcome to 2004

I could never get into adjustable optics on a carbine; I know the argument of not really being able to make shit out at 200+ yards and wanting an optic with some magnification, but for real world use its just never worked for me. Combat shooting with a carbine is speed first, rounds on/towards target - adding a heavier variable optic that I then may need to adjust or fuck around with on the fly as well as an eyebox that is finicky/unforgiving and introduces a shit ton of parallax into the system just doesn't help.

Yes I know there's 3 gunner people out there with optics, but its not the same thing as they are set up for something very specific whereas I can be shooting at shit I can't see, shooting at 20 yards in a hallway, out of a vehicle or just putting rounds downrange in between bounds. Go sprint 40 yards, get behind whatever cover you designated at the start of the bound, get down onto whatever the terrain is when you get there and put some rounds out at your target for a few seconds until you have to get up and do it again and let me know how that magnified optic is working for you when you're spending all your time trying to get the correct eye relief and scope/eye alignment.
/QUOTE]
This whole chunk of your post confuses me. It sounds like what a LPVO is ideal for but somehow thats not what you're saying. Maybe you've only experienced cheap LPVO's, a really good one does a great red dot impersonation but with magnification for the other 10% of your shots.

 

[hypno02]

Try moving the front buis back a tad and put the surefire up top in front of it. I run mine that way, works great.

This ^

12:00 is the best place for an X300 on a carbine. Loving the LMT goodness in this thread!

I agree that LMT/KAC rail covers suck. Lo-pro snap on covers are the way to go.

 

[Mike_Honcho]

CarBean set up is pretty personal

Optics are really personal. If you work hard at the Binden Aiming Concept or non optic eye to search / optic eye to acquire and fire / transition back to non optic eye; as well as shooting by index - you’re giving up very little if anything over an RDS. I like / use RDS, ACOG, Short Dots.

My bedside SBR has a SF300 at the 9 o'clock, I’m not a big fan of tape switches, so it is either push or roll with my thumb. On my GP 16” it is a G2 at the 9 o’clock that I work with my thumb too

Slings - I don’t trust QD thingys - they get dummy cords / I like adj slings and like padded Vickers best

Sectioned cleaning rods get zip tied to the forend

If you like VFGs instead of cupping the mag well, you might consider trimming that one down to a stubby

Again - highly personal....

 

[pmclaine]

Okay seeing as Im going to run my carbine as a carbine in the roll @TheGerman promotes Im going to buy some disposable brass for my in the future classes. Ill need about 800 rounds of 5.56/.223 and 200 .45 ACP.

Thinking of getting supplied with this Black Friday Federal special....

https://palmettostatearmory.com/black-friday-sales/black-friday-ammo/black-pack-rebate.html

Anyone ever shoot this stuff through a 16 inch 1/7?

Would I be better just sticking with the 5.56 Federal that comes packed in the 420 round cans and going with Winchester White box .45ACP.

Guessing class requirements are going to be mostly 50 yards and in range with only a little bit of 100 yard shots if any at all.


EDIT DISREGARD - See they have 420 round cans that would come out to only $10 more, its legit LC ammo and I get 2 cans to fill with reloads.

 

[hypno02]

Slings - I don’t trust QD thingys - they get dummy cords / I like adj slings and like padded Vickers best

Sectioned cleaning rods get zip tied to the forend

If you like VFGs instead of cupping the mag well, you might consider trimming that one down to a stubby

Cupping the magwell in any practical situation is a terrible idea. You're minimizing your control of the weapon by doing so. (Stubby VFG's are the ticket--I can agree with you there)

Zip tying a sectioned cleaning rod to your rifle? Please don't do that. IF you feel the need to do that--then you have a shitty rifle, shitty ammo, you don't maintain your rifle, or a combination of all three.

There's nothing wrong with QD slings. My proof: One time I had my LR rifle slung on my back and as I was *hastily* transitioning through a doorway with my pistol the slung rifle slid just a tad and ended up being wider than the door opening. My feet kept running but the rest of me didn't and just like that I was watching butterflies on the ceiling. Thanks to good trigger control on the handgun and an unloaded rifle nobody was hurt.

Except my pride.

 

[TheGerman]

I agree they're great for 3 gun and that kind of shooting. I never managed to acquire the target faster or offset the time it took on getting the eye relief distance and eye box correct in the type of shooting or positions I'd see while deployed. Add the parallax shift depending on what distance you end up shooting at as well as your gun/head angle depending if you're laying in a ditch or some random ass position; as well as that this can all change from second to second or you can be fine one second and engaged the next, and the variables for me were a no go as the last thing I have time to do is fuck around on an optic on a carbine. Also, the variable's I looked at weren't designed for or didn't really allow you to engage with both eyes open as the optic's rear end was too fat or the eye box was short and your face had to be close to the optic and would blur your other eye or make your other eye 'stare' at something on your gun.

I actually had this discussion with people before who said that if you get the right reticle/daylight bright reticle in it its just like a RDS at 1x to which I asked...then why not just use an Aimpoint? I guess my point is that for the other % of shooting at distance, the draw backs just don't work for me.

The TA33 is probably the perfect balance with the giant eye box and BAC design. The 4x ACOG that was usually issued was the exact opposite with basically ZERO eyebox to where you had to mount it so far back and then still put your face 1/2 an inch from the damn ocular.

I did notice that the new URGI has the Nightforce 1-8 on it and it actually made me curious again about variables to where I may grab an upper and screw around with it on the same drills I do now with an Aimpoint or ACOG. The variables I did try were the Trijicon Accupoint 1-4, Leupold Mk6 1-6, Leupold Mk8 1.1-8 and the USO 1-8.

 

[TheGerman]

Okay seeing as Im going to run my carbine as a carbine in the roll @TheGerman promotes Im going to buy some disposable brass for my in the future classes. Ill need about 800 rounds of 5.56/.223 and 200 .45 ACP.

Thinking of getting supplied with this Black Friday Federal special....

https://palmettostatearmory.com/black-friday-sales/black-friday-ammo/black-pack-rebate.html

Anyone ever shoot this stuff through a 16 inch 1/7?

Would I be better just sticking with the 5.56 Federal that comes packed in the 420 round cans and going with Winchester White box .45ACP.

Guessing class requirements are going to be mostly 50 yards and in range with only a little bit of 100 yard shots if any at all.


EDIT DISREGARD - See they have 420 round cans that would come out to only $10 more, its legit LC ammo and I get 2 cans to fill with reloads.

I was looking at the Federal Black a bit ago because its actually the same price as most Russian steel training ammo. Other than a few people asking about it, I've heard zero else about it.

It's obviously not M193/XM193 but for training, who cares. At 16 and 1/7 twist you'll be fine.

I got 4 of these before they went OOS last week https://www.ammunitiondepot.com/czech-mil-spec-5-56-nato-55-gr-m193.html

During your course, pay attention to what positions you can/cannot get to your light in and where you may need to move it as well as if your instructor is worth a shit, he'll pay attention to you having any light ND's which a lot of people do not realize they are doing during the daytime.

Is your ACOG mount the stock Trijicon or is it QD? Those BUIS won't be worth a shit if you can't get the ACOG off without a screwdriver.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

@TheGerman
I've never walked a mile in your shoes so I can't quite disagree with you, but the list of optics you tried really doesn't give the LPVO category a fair shake, particularly in 1x performance. My two favorite LPVO's have huge eyeboxes, generous eye relief and the scope tube completely disappears with one or both eyes open.

 

[308pirate]

Anyone ever shoot this stuff through a 16 inch 1/7?

5.56/223/55 gr/68gr/75gr it doesn't matter

 

[308pirate]

Count me out of the LPVO craze. I tried one (Trijicon Accupower) and while eventually I trained myself to be as fast with it as I am with an Aimpoint it's just simply not as forgiving as a reflex sight and never will be. Parallax is a REAL problem and it shows up on target 100 - 150 yards downrange with group shifts and crazy fliers. All those problems disapper with a reflex (Aimpoint is all I use) and hitting steel all the way to 250 yards is stupid easy.

Backup sights...I don't want to fuck around with flipping up or down. I simply bring my head down a fraction of an inch and they're there. The Aimpoint doesn't even need to be removed unless the glass gets so fucked that you simply can't see through it at all. In that case, a flick of the QD latch and it's gone.

And oh yeah, fuck setscrew gas blocks. Pin that bitch in place.

I keep my shit simple

 

[Mike_Honcho]

I actually had this discussion with people before who said that if you get the right reticle/daylight bright reticle in it its just like a RDS at 1x to which I asked...then why not just use an Aimpoint? I guess my point is that for the other % of shooting at distance, the draw backs just don't work for me.

I do think it depends on what you it want for...IMHO there is nothing better than a SnB 1-4 w/ CQB ret for a GP rifle. Its pretty forgiving and daylight bright at 1x, and with a little practice, not bad to fractionalize at distance on 4x. Even works pretty well behind a pvs 30.

 

[pmclaine]

I was looking at the Federal Black a bit ago because its actually the same price as most Russian steel training ammo. Other than a few people asking about it, I've heard zero else about it.

It's obviously not M193/XM193 but for training, who cares. At 16 and 1/7 twist you'll be fine.

I got 4 of these before they went OOS last week https://www.ammunitiondepot.com/czech-mil-spec-5-56-nato-55-gr-m193.html

During your course, pay attention to what positions you can/cannot get to your light in and where you may need to move it as well as if your instructor is worth a shit, he'll pay attention to you having any light ND's which a lot of people do not realize they are doing during the daytime.

Is your ACOG mount the stock Trijicon or is it QD? Those BUIS won't be worth a shit if you can't get the ACOG off without a screwdriver.

@ArmyJerry would be happy with your Czech ammo purchase.

ACOG is on the stock Colt thumbscrew base and I have tightened those to "abrade the thumb and forefinger skin causing me pain tight". I can unwind them if need be but will be monitoring to see if the base shoots itself loose. Will be paying attention to current height of mount. Understand many find LaRue too low, read favorable things about GDI except for price. Something may pop up in the PX that might be reasonable priced.

Have a spare set of .45 degree KAC BUIS. Im thinking no need for short range 45 degree sights with the ACOG in play. If I ever actually need BUIS Id prefer them on the top rail not "hood" style.

This is my rifle. Im expecting to get a work rifle soon which will be pretty basic, fixed sights zeroed at about 100 yards and it may have a Aimpoint PRO red dot. Unsure if the two will conflict with each other.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

OP buy some cheap wolf steel case ammo and ditch the bag. You can buy that stuff cheaper than what you can reload for

I just went and looked, I can't find any Wolf for cheaper than I'm loading hoser ammo for.

 

[wade2big]

I just went and looked, I can't find any Wolf for cheaper than I'm loading hoser ammo for.

You are loading Ammo for less than 20cents a round? Your time is worth something as well or it should be. Not having to have that bag hanging off your rifle should be reason enough. Lol

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Yeah, I'm around 18 cents usually, and my kids and Dillon help make loading painless. Agreed on the bag though, I'll stick to crawling around on my knees looking through grass.

 

[wade2big]

Yeah, I'm around 18 cents usually, and my kids and Dillon help make loading painless. Agreed on the bag though, I'll stick to crawling around on my knees looking through grass.

I’m just picking on you. I like the bag. Lol

 

[pmclaine]

TBR bag is a small price to pay to recover brass.

https://www.tacticalbrassrecovery.com/ar-platform-short-frame-throw-lever-mount-brass-catcher/

Spent cases spit into it as fast as I can accurately pull the trigger without issue.

Watched mil guys the other day picking through fresh snow to make sure they recovered the 97% guestimated weight of the issued brass and I thought to myself "Dont miss that shit" even though the accounting of the brass is only accountable to me.

Funny how you can go all cheap suck on something such as brass that I could get vast quantities of for free and yet Im willing to spend $125 to catch the shit.

Also not going to be that guy at my local range that leaves the shit all over the place for someone to roll on.

 

[TheGerman]

@TheGerman
I've never walked a mile in your shoes so I can't quite disagree with you, but the list of optics you tried really doesn't give the LPVO category a fair shake, particularly in 1x performance. My two favorite LPVO's have huge eyeboxes, generous eye relief and the scope tube completely disappears with one or both eyes open.

Which do you like?

Im always curious. And yeah, the ones available (not issued) when I could have used them were basically limited to Accupoints, ACOGs, and using the low end of various optics like the Mk4 3.5-10, the other Leupolds and the NF 2.5-10.

I didnt think much had changed since then when trying the MK8, USO, MK6, etc

 

[TonyTheTiger]

My two favorites are hands down the Razor and the C-More C3. Mind you my use is probably 95% on 1x, so other scopes may be better at the top but I don't care. I've only briefly messed with other peoples 1-8x scopes and I'll be sticking with a higher end 1-6x for sure.
Oh almost forgot the old Swarovski Z6I, that one is still a contender even if its ancient.

 

[Soulezoo]

How about this picture. One on 1x and one on 6x

 

[Soulezoo]

 

[Soulezoo]

 

[Soulezoo]

Don't know how I got the double...sorry

 

[Soulezoo]

 

[Soulezoo]

Again.

 

[Soulezoo]

The focal point of the tree is about 110 yards

 

[mark5pt56]

Soulezoo, Scope and mount height?

 

[308pirate]

Mount sure looks like a Larue SPR 1.5. Curious about the scope.

 

[mark5pt56]

Thinking a 1.5-4 Leupold? Nice rig, clean.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Its a Bushnell 1-6.5x from the looks of it.