Your 2 cents, best ultra long range cartridge ?

C

coolatula

Private
Minuteman
Mar 4, 2003
37
0
Indiana
#1
Here is something for you guys to chew on for awhile. Oh and don't for get the optics(very important).

Other than a semi-auto Barrett .50,what would be the best overall cartridge for 1,200 meter plus ranges on both hard and soft targets ?

I'm just wanting to get an idea of what is out on the current market. I am more familar with the .308 Win and smaller so I have not delt with longer range cartridges and the semi-auto weapons that shoot them.

So I guess this would have to be the box it would have to go in along with what large,light gathering night vision capable optics would be availiable.

1. Combat reliable Semi-auto with very good accuracy out at extended ranges of 1,200 meters +.

2. Must have the power and punch to be effective out to 1,200 meters and possibly out to 1,500 if that's reasonable.

3. Commercially available ammo(not just in the U.S.). No exotic out ragously expensive and hard to get cartridges please.

4. Less recoil and weight than a .50,but still effective on target.

5. Due to regulations I may be limited to only NON AP rounds,but would need a cartridge that would still be able to be effective.


The ones that come to mind are the .300 Win. mag..300 Win. Ultra mag.,.338 Laupua mag.(best overall choice ???),.408 Chey tac(avail. in a semi yet ?).416 Barrett.

So would I be stuck with a .50 cal as my only viable option ?
Not that it wouldn't be bad it is just TOO MUCH gun in a sense.

The only plus side is that I would may have access to standard .50 cal ball/tracer ammo,but do not know how accurate it would be in a Barrett ? It's effect on target speaks for itself of course.

If there are smaller,lighter,less recoil producing alternatives on the market I would like to know about them.

Thanks and if you where doing up a kit what would you choose and why?
 
#2
Re: Your 2 cents, best ultra long range cartridge ?

Why would you want a semi-auto past 500 yards or so? A blot action will be more accurate and in such a heavy caliber I doubt it can be fire much faster anyways. Besides don’t you want to wait and see what you hit before firing again? Flight time is going to be a couple of seconds. I think .375 chytech is the way to go for a long range gun. Cost has come down a lot it’s not that much more than a .338 lapua to shoot and rifles are also around the same price if you go with a Lawton or Stiller action in a XLR chassis. The Lawton barrel seems good on my rifle.
 
#3
Re: Your 2 cents, best ultra long range cartridge ?

I have seen one 7.62 AR converted to 6.5x284. Requires short COAL and custom throat due to short magazine lenght. Does not work with factory ammo but rifles and components are available and trajectory is sweet. Basically identical with 338 Lapua if barrel is not too short.
I dont know what do you excactly mean with good hard target performance, but 140gr bullet would still have plenty of velocity way past 1000 mark.

 
#5
Re: Your 2 cents, best ultra long range cartridge ?

coolatula,

It really won't do you any favors for me or anyone else to answer those questions for you.

You given a multiple choice test and are basically asking for a poll on opinion, and these questions have already been asked MANY times.

I'd say it's more that possible you are leaning in a certain direction already, and above all the choice is yours on what to buy.

Here is the Hide search engine.
http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=010955838166721108978:qcbx5qqy10o&hl=en
 
#8
Re: Your 2 cents, best ultra long range cartridge ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KNIGHT11B4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Daisy Red Ryder... Period </div></div>

Daisy Red rider painted pink gives it the tactical look while still being the best out there!!!
 
#9
Re: Your 2 cents, best ultra long range cartridge ?

sniff.... sniff..... sniff..... uh huh... I say ninja Glock is what you are looking for.... it has all your needs...
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jAvYQSsGdMw"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jAvYQSsGdMw" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
 
#10
Re: Your 2 cents, best ultra long range cartridge ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StanwoodSpartan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KNIGHT11B4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Daisy Red Ryder... Period </div></div>

Daisy Red rider painted pink gives it the tactical look while still being the best out there!!! </div></div>

and you need the leather tassels......it is not tacticool without tassels.......
 
#11
Re: Your 2 cents, best ultra long range cartridge ?

Good questions Tom. A bolt action is out of the question,but thank you. Yes a bolt action is superior in accuracy all things equal,but that's not the whole story in getting the job done. Also believe me 5oo meters is extremely close and within the effective range of small caliber arms. I would need a stand-off weapon capable of out distancing non magnum small arms.

I would need a weapon system capable of firing quickly,getting rounds down range in quick sucession with relative accuracy. It doesn't have to be pin-point just accurate enough. Follow-up/multiple target concerns outweigh even it's overall accuracy.
 
#13
Re: Your 2 cents, best ultra long range cartridge ?

In order to solve concerns before they become a problem Chiller. I don't like problems.

Funny jokes on here,not like the Hide of old.....any Operators left on here ?
 
#17
Re: Your 2 cents, best ultra long range cartridge ?

Thanks ArmaHeavy and I believe you may be correct. Just wanting first hand knowledge and opinons on the available systems.

A friend of mine picked up a Barrett .416 along with a Barrett BORS. IDK which scope he went with as I havent seen the rifle yet,but my guess is it's a Leupold LR He ask me out to shoot it months ago,but haven't made it out there. I think I may have to make a trip out there soon.
 
#20
Re: Your 2 cents, best ultra long range cartridge ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coolatula</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks ArmaHeavy and I believe you may be correct. Just wanting first hand knowledge and opinons on the available systems.

A friend of mine picked up a Barrett .416 along with a Barrett BORS. IDK which scope he went with as I havent seen the rifle yet,but my guess is it's a Leupold LR He ask me out to shoot it months ago,but haven't made it out there. I think I may have to make a trip out there soon. </div></div>

so yo are consulting the wizard of the hill at mountainous. good fer yens.
 
#21
Re: Your 2 cents, best ultra long range cartridge ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coolatula</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In order to solve concerns before they become a problem Chiller. I don't like problems.

Funny jokes on here,not like the Hide of old.....any Operators left on here ? </div></div>

Any operators left on here??? What concerns??? WTF your questions makes you sound like your a 14 year old punk that wants to sound cool and say cool thing around his looser Call of Duty friends.

What are you going to do with this rifle? <span style="text-decoration: underline">IF</span> you are going into harms way don't worry about it, Uncle Sam will give you what ever you need. If (and more likely the case) you just want to shoot long range targets you have been given plenty of options.

You sound like a troll if that's the case GO AWAY!
 
#22
Re: Your 2 cents, best ultra long range cartridge ?

Wow came here for advice and get jokes and called a PUNK and Troll ? I have been on this site on and off for seven years.

Uncle Sam isn't footing this bill,and as you know he does NOT supply you with all you need. I wasn't saying to "sound cool" I was saying that because people want to make jokes when in the past people would have just given me the information that I asked for.

Anyone that knows that someone may really would like some honest,no B.S. infomation on what products are available for what I will possibly need. The "Operator" comment was my way of saying that all the arm chair quarterbacks need not comment.

I explained what the weapon and cartridge would need to do to fit my needs.
 
#23
Re: Your 2 cents, best ultra long range cartridge ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coolatula</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In order to solve concerns before they become a problem Chiller. I don't like problems.

Funny jokes on here,not like the Hide of old.....any Operators left on here ? </div></div>

There are quite a few of them. While I am not one of them I do detect the faint odor of BS.

Let's break this down and make sure I understand the question I will limit the discussion to the bullet
Your requests seem to be in colflict with each other and truth be told not well thought out.

<span style="color: #CC0000">1. Combat reliable Semi-auto with very good accuracy out at extended ranges of 1,200 meters +.</span> (See #3, #4, #5)


<span style="color: #CC0000">3. Commercially available ammo(not just in the U.S.). No exotic out ragously expensive and hard to get cartridges please. </span> Define “exotic” or “outrageously” expensive. (See #1, #4, and #5)

<span style="color: #CC0000">4. Less recoil and weight than a .50,but still effective on target. Define effective. You comment on soft and “hard” targets.</span> How would you propose to deal with a “hard” target absent being able to carry payload or being AP (see #1, #3, & #5) ?

<span style="color: #CC0000">5. Due to regulations I may be limited to only NON AP rounds,but would need a cartridge that would still be able to be effective.</span> Again this is in conflict with your discussion of hard/soft targets. (See #4)


<span style="color: #FF0000">The ones that come to mind are the .300 Win. mag..300 Win. Ultra mag.,.338 Laupua mag.(best overall choice ???),.408 Chey tac(avail. in a semi yet ?).416 Barrett.

So would I be stuck with a .50 cal as my only viable option ?
Not that it wouldn't be bad it is just TOO MUCH gun in a sense.

The only plus side is that I would may have access to standard .50 cal ball/tracer ammo,but do not know how accurate it would be in a Barrett ? It's effect on target speaks for itself of course.

If there are smaller,lighter,less recoil producing alternatives on the market I would like to know about them.</span>


Before you begin to chastise people you need to do a reality check. You are effectively asking for commercially available, small caliber, capable of HTI, that is cheap, and capable of accuracy at 1200+ yards that is not AP. Did I get that right?
 
#25
Re: Your 2 cents, best ultra long range cartridge ?

And that is exactly why I ask on here Chiller. I didn't get a lot of B.S. answers when I've been on this site in the past,but I'm actually sorry I began this thread. I should have just done more reseach on my own and ask the weapons manufactures themselves. Thing is they want to sell you THEIR product of course so they are going to steer you toward something that may be better but don't sell.

By exotic and the expense I mean something that doesn't have to be custom manufactured/loaded to the point where it can't be shipped easily and quickly. I can understand it is all relatively expensive,but I would actually like to famliarize myself with the system,shoot it enough to get the DOPE and be confident that it would perform as long as I did my part.
 
#28
Re: Your 2 cents, best ultra long range cartridge ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coolatula</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And that is exactly why I ask on here Chiller. I didn't get a lot of B.S. answers when I've been on this site in the past,but I'm actually sorry I began this thread. I should have just done more reseach on my own and ask the weapons manufactures themselves. Thing is they want to sell you THEIR product of course so they are going to steer you toward something that may be better but don't sell.

By exotic and the expense I mean something that doesn't have to be custom manufactured/loaded to the point where it can't be shipped easily and quickly. I can understand it is all relatively expensive,but I would actually like to famliarize myself with the system,shoot it enough to get the DOPE and be confident that it would perform as long as I did my part. </div></div>

What you seek is the Mk211 but it falls down on
Cost
AP
Comercially available
Etc.

You have a wish list that does not exist. You are more than welcome to ask questions, in fact you are encouraged to do so. My point is that perhaps the first question you need to ask is does this “wish list” exist in reality.
 
#29
Re: Your 2 cents, best ultra long range cartridge ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coolatula</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And that is exactly why I ask on here Chiller. I didn't get a lot of B.S. answers when I've been on this site in the past,but I'm actually sorry I began this thread. I should have just done more reseach on my own and ask the weapons manufactures themselves. Thing is they want to sell you THEIR product of course so they are going to steer you toward something that may be better but don't sell.

By exotic and the expense I mean something that doesn't have to be custom manufactured/loaded to the point where it can't be shipped easily and quickly. I can understand it is all relatively expensive,but I would actually like to famliarize myself with the system,shoot it enough to get the DOPE and be confident that it would perform as long as I did my part. </div></div>

What you seek is the Mk211 but it falls down on
Cost
AP
Comercially available
Etc.

You have a wish list that does not exist. You are more than welcome to ask questions, in fact you are encouraged to do so. My point is that perhaps the first question you need to ask is does this “wish list” exist in reality.
</div></div>


I guess the basic bottom line,is there a rifle that will do what the Barrett Model 82A1/M107 will do with non AP/API rounds that is lighter to lug around,commercially available. The .50 is more gun than I would need without the use of AP rounds...way more than enough. Just wanted to ask the shooters on here what the alternatives were to the Barrett .50 cals.
 
#32
Re: Your 2 cents, best ultra long range cartridge ?

Is a bubble level a requirement?
wink.gif
 
#33
Re: Your 2 cents, best ultra long range cartridge ?

Where can I order a Ninja Glock? Wish my scope was adjustable from 3x to 7 miles!

Oh yeah, to the OP. Whatever dude. Buy a .22 so your dad can buy you ammo.

41
 
#35
Re: Your 2 cents, best ultra long range cartridge ?

I am not trying to be nasty, but I think the reason you are getting teased so much is because your requirements aren't realistic. With even a little effort on your part, such as using a search engine, etc....I think you could have found that out already. Something about this site is that people tend not to have much sympathy if you don't make an effort, but are extremely helpful if do your part.

Chiller, in his post with red lettering, already answered your questions in a civil manner.

I am saying this in as nice a way as possible, video games are different than reality...Pose an intelligent question, and you will get a helpful answer.
 
#36
Re: Your 2 cents, best ultra long range cartridge ?

I guess I hurt the widdle guys feewings. I'm getting PM's now with really cool airsoft pictures to show me how hard he is.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coolatula</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Call of Duty ? Sorry Capt. I prefer the real thing versus just talking about it and at 45 years of age I'm still doing it. Yes that really is me on Point during a training exercise...
IMG_0587-1-1.jpg


</div></div>
 
#37
Re: Your 2 cents, best ultra long range cartridge ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Captain Moroni</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess I hurt the widdle guys feewings. I'm getting PM's now with really cool airsoft pictures to show me how hard he is.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coolatula</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Call of Duty ? Sorry Capt. I prefer the real thing versus just talking about it and at 45 years of age I'm still doing it. Yes that really is me on Point during a training exercise...
IMG_0587-1-1.jpg


</div></div> </div></div>

Man you guys are relentless ! Hurt my feelings...nah...Air Soft how did you know ? I remember when this was a somewhat serious site about long range shooting. Yeah there was a little ribbing once in a while,but people were sincere for the most part. I guess I have been away from here too long and see it with new eyes. This place has definately gone to the arm chair internet Heroes !
 
#38
Re: Your 2 cents, best ultra long range cartridge ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vkc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am not trying to be nasty, but I think the reason you are getting teased so much is because your requirements aren't realistic. With even a little effort on your part, such as using a search engine, etc....I think you could have found that out already. Something about this site is that people tend not to have much sympathy if you don't make an effort, but are extremely helpful if do your part.

Chiller, in his post with red lettering, already answered your questions in a civil manner.

I am saying this in as nice a way as possible, video games are different than reality...Pose an intelligent question, and you will get a helpful answer.
</div></div>

You are correct,just wanted the opinions of others but didn't need the B.S. jokes just some sincere,informative and helpful answers.

I am not familar with larger caliber long range rifles and wanted to gain some knowledge from those that were. If I knew the answers then I sure would not have posed the questions here.
 
#39
Re: Your 2 cents, best ultra long range cartridge ?

No, it hasn't been populated by, "armchair internet heros."

It's over populated by people who ask the same thing that someone else has already asked, not less than a day and not more than a week ago.

You're currently #1,000,000,000 in line, and we'll get around to you when we're PAID to.

Until then your quest for a semi-automatic rifle capable of hitting a point-sized target at 1200 yards is a question best answered by the link I've posted.

BECAUSE YOUR FUCKING QUESTION WAS ALREADY ASKED AND ANSWERED BEFORE.

Yippy-i. Yippy-a. Yippie-i. Yippy-a.
 
#41
Re: Your 2 cents, best ultra long range cartridge ?

ArmaHeavy said:
No, it hasn't been populated by, "armchair internet heros."

It's over populated by people who ask the same thing that someone else has already asked, not less than a day and not more than a week ago.

You're currently #1,000,000,000 in line, and we'll get around to you when we're PAID to.

Until then your quest for a semi-automatic rifle capable of hitting a point-sized target at 1200 yards is a question best answered by the link I've posted.

BECAUSE YOUR FUCKING QUESTION WAS ALREADY ASKED AND ANSWERED BEFORE.

Yippy-i. Yippy-a. Yippie-i. Yippy-a. [/quo

I never asked anyone to answer that didn't want to did I ? If you didn't like the question I posed because it has been asked before then simple,don't reply and move on to the next one ? No one made you click on,read and then comment did they ?

"I" haven't asked these questions before today have I. I was wanting info for a tool to be actually used in the field. Not to plink with,not to shoot paper or steel targets with that don't shoot back,but info. on the best tool to do the job and that is all.

As I said 99.9% of everything that is discussed on a firearms site has already been discussed so why doesn't everyone just use the search function and then there is no need to talk to or discuss it with anyone else because it's already been answered right ? People still like to give their personal opinions and differing experiences of the various subjects don't they ? That's what I was hoping for,but not what I got. I thought there might be a few people that would want to put some serious thought and discussion into it...unfortunately I was wrong.
Click to expand...
 
#43
Re: Your 2 cents, best ultra long range cartridge ?

Seriously, all you need to do is get your hands on Jim Bob Redneck's 270 he bought at walmart. With a simmons scope and a box of walmart special shells, he can shoot a dime size group at 500yds, or a running deer at 1k. Imagine what a real marksman "aka yourself" could do with it!
 
#44
Re: Your 2 cents, best ultra long range cartridge ?

Costly as it is I beleive COBB makes something in 300 Win Mag that would be as close as your gonna get to what you want. But there is nothing out there that will do everything you want to do.
 
#45
Re: Your 2 cents, best ultra long range cartridge ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nobearsyet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Costly as it is I beleive COBB makes something in 300 Win Mag that would be as close as your gonna get to what you want. But there is nothing out there that will do everything you want to do. </div></div>

Thanks,I also found this AR style .338 Lapua Mag..
http://www.onlylongrange.com/badnews.asp
 
#46
Re: Your 2 cents, best ultra long range cartridge ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coolatula</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nobearsyet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Costly as it is I beleive COBB makes something in 300 Win Mag that would be as close as your gonna get to what you want. But there is nothing out there that will do everything you want to do. </div></div>

Thanks,I also found this AR style .338 Lapua Mag..
http://www.onlylongrange.com/badnews.asp </div></div>

I would say that is a $5000 roll of the dice. Wish you the best of luck.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coolatula</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In order to solve concerns before they become a problem Chiller. I don't like problems.

</div></div>

The other point that is troubling is when people want to start to make veiled or not so veiled comments to being on a two way range (especially inside CONUS)
 
#47
Re: Your 2 cents, best ultra long range cartridge ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: drunkhumpinmonkey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">sniff.... sniff..... sniff..... uh huh... I say ninja Glock is what you are looking for.... it has all your needs...
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jAvYQSsGdMw"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jAvYQSsGdMw" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object> </div></div>

DHM, that video was great. You put a lot of thought into it.

We need more. That was better than Bevis and Butthead. LOL
 
#48
Re: Your 2 cents, best ultra long range cartridge ?

I think the Nuke 50, 50BMG will beat the ninja glock for long range...

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Q_XX2lIT1tQ"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Q_XX2lIT1tQ" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
 
#50
Re: Your 2 cents, best ultra long range cartridge ?

Sounds like one of those in 338 Lapua would fit most of his requirements. There are CNC machined solids available that may give some hard target capabilty without being AP rounds. The 338 Lapua is becoming very popular and the ammo is more likely to be found in gun shops than the CheyTacs. Questions for the OP, are you LEO? If you are, why can you not possess AP rounds? Many states exempt LEO from the firearms restrictions placed on civilians.
 
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