Rifle Scopes your opinions on mid tier optics like XTR3 vs XRS3/DMR3 vs Cronus Gen2
- Thread starter ChuckieP
- Start date
Anything specific? I boxed it back up but if it's something specific... I can do some more checking at first light tomorrow.
Oh, definitely worth the money, fantastic scope. We're basically a bunch of women saying our jeans don't fit right.
I could be happy for the rest of my life with it, and I could see a soda can, albeit a bit fuzzy, at ~3700 yds.For comparison, the ZCO at that same range has less, almost no fuzz around the soda can. ZCO you can also see deer eyes and ears and antlers, not well enough to count points, but much clearer than the best of the 2K range. But anything inside of the most unethical of hunting ranges, say 1500 yds, the 2K class of scopes gives you all the detail on an animal, or a soda can, that you would need to make the shot. Color and contrast and mirage is also much better with ZCO, but again, didn't impact my ability to shoot - and to standardize across half a dozen rifles, I'd rather do something else with that ~15K cost difference.
Nutshell: I happen to value FOV and prefer the SCR2 enough to prefer the XTR3 over the Bushnell, and I already have 2 of them, so more transferability by sticking with the platform.
Good to go! Thanks for the update. I'm excited to get this scope. My Fed Ex tracking for my scope seems "lost"Oh, definitely worth the money, fantastic scope. We're basically a bunch of women saying our jeans don't fit right.
For comparison, the ZCO at that same range has less, almost no fuzz around the soda can. ZCO you can also see deer eyes and ears and antlers, not well enough to count points, but much clearer than the best of the 2K range. But anything inside of the most unethical of hunting ranges, say 1500 yds, the 2K class of scopes gives you all the detail on an animal, or a soda can, that you would need to make the shot. Color and contrast and mirage is also much better with ZCO, but again, didn't impact my ability to shoot - and to standardize across half a dozen rifles, I'd rather do something else with that ~15K cost difference.
Nutshell: I happen to value FOV and prefer the SCR2 enough to prefer the XTR3 over the Bushnell, and I already have 2 of them, so more transferability by sticking with the platform.
Haha, what timeliness are those exactly..
They haven't been in any big hurry to make an illuminated XTR3, but at no point have they unveiled it and set a date that they didn't deliver on. They just haven't produced it yet.
So if they do unveil new products at Shot and don't ever bring them to market, it would be fair at that point to make fun of their "timelines"
Whilst Burris haven't given us exact dates, they and their "influencers" have kept us holding our breath for this illusive illuminated version.
Good news is the new rumoured Razor should be outsoon, so long as it doesn't weight 300lbs might not need to wait for my illuminated 3.3-18x50.
I would agree with that (not the Vortex part).
Whilst Burris haven't given us exact dates, they and their "influencers" have kept us holding our breath for this illusive illuminated version.
Good news is the new rumoured Razor should be outsoon, so long as it doesn't weight 300lbs might not need to wait for my illuminated 3.3-18x50.
Burris has had the illuminated version on and off again. I think they initially were thinking they would roll it out a year or so after, then decided they didn't like their current illumination components and wanted to redesign from the ground up. Then the existing XTR3 started blowing out the door and the already limited production space had to go into overdrive, so illuminated went on the back burner. There was simply no opportunity to work it into the production schedule and keep up with current demand.
I think those bugs are worked out and I think they are ready to bring these to market. Ive seen the early run prototypes, and I'm pretty sure folks are going to like them. Its my very strong suspicion we will see some interesting announcements for Shot Show, and possibly at that point a market release date.
Then we'll be on the hook for hitting our timeline
I was reading a post (I think here) a while ago about some people complaining about the lack of illunimation options for scopes. Then somebody in the "know" or the industry jumped on and explained why alot of companies don't offer illumination because it costs more and like 80% of people just dont want it, need it or want to pay extra for it, makes sense.I would agree with that (not the Vortex part).
Burris has had the illuminated version on and off again. I think they initially were thinking they would roll it out a year or so after, then decided they didn't like their current illumination components and wanted to redesign from the ground up. Then the existing XTR3 started blowing out the door and the already limited production space had to go into overdrive, so illuminated went on the back burner. There was simply no opportunity to work it into the production schedule and keep up with current demand.
I think those bugs are worked out and I think they are ready to bring these to market. Ive seen the early run prototypes, and I'm pretty sure folks are going to like them. Its my very strong suspicion we will see some interesting announcements for Shot Show, and possibly at that point a market release date.
Then we'll be on the hook for hitting our timeline
Its the truth. I've had this conversation with Burris management. They've said as much to me directly.
I know there are a lot of people these days who use tactical scopes as crossover hunting optics. And out of those people there are some of them who want illumination. And I get that.
But from a scope company perspective, the hunting line ups that are purpose built for that guy sell in exponentially greater numbers. I'm sure if people could see illuminated versus non illuminated sales numbers on the MK5, which is one of the few mid tier tactical optics to make illumination optional for a price, they would see that in these line ups, demand for illumination isn't great. And people complain about the cost of adding it.
I've hunted big game all over the northwest for 40 years, I've had illuminated reticles for the last 8. I've never used it. But even having said that, I'm excited to see the illuminated XTR3. If there are some guys out there that want it, then I'm glad Burris is finally able to bring it to market for them. I love my 18x optic, I think the illuminated version of that will be the bomb.
I've done several night shoots (in training) with my NON-illuminated PMII and had no issues once my eyes acclimated with targets out to 575. Now, this was before illuminated reticles were available but the scope I have with an illum ret, even on low, seems bright. I'd be worried about screwing up my night vision, regardless of the color of illum. You guys that have more experience then me at night, please weigh in.
You don't turn up the illumination so that it blinds you. You turn on the illumination so that it adds contrast. It's very easy for a thin black reticle to get lost in a black and brown tree line.
For me, that's the biggest drawback of the 3.3-18 SCR2. unless you have perfect contrast, the reticle is invisible until 5 or 6x
For me, that's the biggest drawback of the 3.3-18 SCR2. unless you have perfect contrast, the reticle is invisible until 5 or 6x
The illumination doesn't make the target disappear somewhat? Like I said, I've never used an illum so I don't know.
My partner had another 'top' tier tactical scope and couldn't see shit. My PMII was....all that it was suppose to be.
My partner had another 'top' tier tactical scope and couldn't see shit. My PMII was....all that it was suppose to be.
That is my issue, I have an XRSII and the XTRII. The XRS is a really nice piece of glass but I paid about 25% more for it over the XTR. No idea on the Gen III optics.
As you’ve already experienced, the XRS2 smokes the glass on the xtr2. Frankly that doesn’t take much though.
Having had both the XRS2 and the XRS3, I’d say there is a small upgrade in glass but it’s tough to quantify since it’s been a couple years since running my xrs2. What I can tell you is I took my xrs3 out, side by side with my zco and my razor G3 and the difference at a mile is negligible. I was actually a little shocked. I will say I sold my atacr 7-35 in favor of keeping the xrs3 on my mile gun if that tells you anything. I’m only speaking about glass here though, and not things like turrets, fov, reticle, eye box, blah blah blah.
I still have the 5-50 on my airgun - great scope, great glass, but not the greatest FOV. I still have 2 XTR3's and love them. I was going to upgrade to XTR Pro's, but they were taking forever, so I tried a G3 Razor and ended up buying a second one. The G3 is a noticeable step up from the XTR3, so even though it's more expensive, it's still a great value. Only downside is that it's really heavy. The XRS3 did nothing for me over the XTR3, so I sent it back.
I’ll second this. I’m a long time vortex hater but grabbed a razor G3 to try out and they really did knock this thing out of the park. I’ve ordered a 2nd in fact. I’m actually contemplating selling my zco to order a 3rd and pocketing like a grand in the process.
Thanks @Birddog6424 , appreciate the feedback. I am looking for talhat scope model, if anyone has one they want to part with, please PM me, Thanks!
I know that about two weeks ago a bunch left Greeley for various vendors around the country. But I'm afraid I don't know any of the specifics. I know where you can get a 30x XTR Pro right now, but not the XTRIII.
If I hear anything I'll post it up.
Avoid the Mk4, otherwise any of those are fine... even the Cronus. I've either owned, currently own or used extensively all of the optics you have listed. DMR/SRS/XTR3 deliver a shitload of value. If you can find a Razor 2 for that money, I'd jump on that too.
Do a search of the xtr iii vs any optic in the past year. Burris made a unicorn, simply put that’s what it is. Iv personally commented on multiple posts about the xtr iii. You aren’t beating the price, and quality. As @Birddog6424 said, how many posts about tracking issues or this or that about the optic? Iv owned both of the non illuminated models. Currently only own the 3-18 because I sold the big brother for baby shit. Not saying this is the optic of optics but it’s crazy how many people are considering it, questioning it, and it thinking of it. I did the same thing but trusted the words of a very high ranked prs shooter and glad I did. Snag (if it’s still available) a non illuminated for under 1k, jrp mount or anything else in same quality realm and have fun.
I recently got an Apex Rival. Glass quality is a notch above my Cronus and a razor gen II. It's made in Japan by JOL. It's closer to alpha glass than anything else I've seen at 2k.
I never tried a XTR iii so I can't compare but at 1k it seems like a no brainer. I would grab one right away for that price in Canada.
I never tried a XTR iii so I can't compare but at 1k it seems like a no brainer. I would grab one right away for that price in Canada.
I recently picked up an XTR pro to see if the hype is legit. In comparison to the cronus g2, mark 5 hd, XRS3, ATACR, razor g2, razor g3, and zco, all of which I have or currently own: I put the XTR pro glass clarity about the same as the mark 5 HD or even slightly better. Not bad, not great (again, I ran a zco so that comparison is always in my mind). I make this comparison due to similar price and that folks claim the xtr pro glass is better than the xtr iii, though supposedly only slightly. Those optics are solid in ideal conditions until mirage enters the picture and they both suffer equally to my eye. The XTR pro absolutely wins with FOV over the leupold. The XTR pro also has better FOV than the cronus and I’ll give it the edge in clarity at distance (like 1k yards). Turrets go to the burris except for the leupold elevation turret which I LOVE, but they really blew it on the windage turret.
The bushnell XRS3 still blows my mind with glass quality at its price point. FOV still goes to the burris but I find the glass slightly better on the bushnell. I’m currently selling my XRS3 for 2 reasons however: 1, I’m not into the 1/4 mil reticles and (2) I’ve gone razor g3 on all my rifles. It can’t be overstated how much vortex knocked that thing out of the park, and I’m a long time vortex hater. I’ve since sold my ATACR and my ZCO in favor of razor G3s and pocketed cash in the process.
I’d skip right over the razor g2 and definitely over the pst thought. The previously mentioned options are better.
Just my take of course.
The bushnell XRS3 still blows my mind with glass quality at its price point. FOV still goes to the burris but I find the glass slightly better on the bushnell. I’m currently selling my XRS3 for 2 reasons however: 1, I’m not into the 1/4 mil reticles and (2) I’ve gone razor g3 on all my rifles. It can’t be overstated how much vortex knocked that thing out of the park, and I’m a long time vortex hater. I’ve since sold my ATACR and my ZCO in favor of razor G3s and pocketed cash in the process.
I’d skip right over the razor g2 and definitely over the pst thought. The previously mentioned options are better.
Just my take of course.
Thanks for the reply. I have since bought two Bushnell XRS 3's. One G4P, one EQL reticle. I much prefer the EQL. The website makes EQL look really bad. But the lines are large enough to be useable in low power where the G4P reticle gets lost at low power. I cannot compare them to any other optic because I haven't looked at any others.
I've used these in a few matches over the past few months. I like them. I wonder how hard it would be to trade the G4P for a EQL reticle?
Thanks everyone for the help on a scope. I am very happy with it. Made a 1st round hit at on an 8in circle at 1k with a .223. Also, was able to take 1st and 3rd in 2 different gas gun challenges. There are probably better options but these work well for my intended use.
Chuck
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