Rifle Scopes ZCO 2-16

#401
deersniper said:
Have you used one?

Best scope out there for thermal clip ons.

Mil xt works fine. For me
Click to expand...

The 1-8x NX8 (which is the nx8 in context of the reply)...unfortunately more time than I wanted behind that little disappointment. It was gone I received authorization to do so.
The 2.5-20?...only a little. I only talk shit on stuff I know.
Admittedly, NF optics (no matter the tier) have never really "wowed" my eyes with their image or hooked me with their reticle designs. I keep trying them because they fill niches others don't/won't.
 
#405
deersniper said:
Yeah that one sucks.

The MOA version is even worse.
It made me convert to mil. Seriously. 1 Moa same sized hashes on a 1-8? If my beloved Nightforce cares so little about MOA shooters , I have to switch to mil
Click to expand...




...yah got the way better deal in the MOAR compared to the Mil-R chopped up mess.

Look at it this way, how else where ya gonna get in on that MPACT3 grid action without going to mil?

Speaking of which, I edited a meme up special for ya!
(It used to be for "Tremor" reticles...but here ya go) :ROFLMAO:

lUm3KYh.gif
 
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#406
dms416 said:
I've yet to see one thats fully "feature complete". EVERY SINGLE LPVO has fleas. Some more than others. I could sit here all day and give you the Good, Bad, and Ugly of all of them. Where they shine...where others eat their lunch.
Click to expand...

What features do you think are missing? We can debate well vs poorly executed features for sure but I think the G3 1-10 at least has all the basic features a great LPVO needs. Then I’ve also been told I’m relatively easy to please.
 
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#407
Vynz said:
What features do you think are missing? We can debate well vs poorly executed features for sure but I think the G3 1-10 at least has all the basic features a great LPVO needs. Then I’ve been told I’m relatively easy to please.
Click to expand...
Personally, I feel the basic list of industry standards is indeed complete:
- Usable @ 1x
- Daylight bright @1x "dot-ish" feature
- Usable layout at max magnification

In practice, I find myself using the in-between a lot more than I used to...especially with 8x and higher top ends
1.5-2.5x for certain ranges/scenarios/stability factors leveraging wobble, FOV etc.
4-6x is about my max spot for certain positional/semi to unsupported again pending context and other factors.
While the above certainly are the industry standards, I want the whole range of usability...or as close as I can get

While nothing is perfect, some are closer than others. The Gen 3 1-10 indeed has some holes in the inbetween that some others do not.
Admittedly, I think this and designs like the ATACR/NX8 that require the use of large illuminated (especially circle-dot) areas are coming in at a major disadvantage with that solution to the 1x challenge. Somewhere be it 2,4,6x the center is not an ideal aiming point (illumination sometimes makes it even worse)

With every passing day the Gen 3 becomes a better value (like it's 1-6x little brother), but I feel it's far from "perfect" or the stand-alone best.
 
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#408
dms416 said:
They're right to on the NX8...it's only good at being light and small. NF didn't even bother to give it the reticle "fix" that they did with its bigger brother ATACR. The desire to defend and save face with that one is STRONG.

I've yet to see one thats fully "feature complete". EVERY SINGLE LPVO has fleas. Some more than others. I could sit here all day and give you the Good, Bad, and Ugly of all of them. Where they shine...where others eat their lunch.

...well not March stuff...I won't touch March given they never seem to pan out to ever be what eveyone wants them to be. Way too many "go March" and then come back or go radio silent...:unsure:
Click to expand...
I love my March DR. Bet I would love a ZCO 2-16 as well. Their 4-20 has been fantastic.
 
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#410
lancetkenyon said:
One great thing about the TT315M, is the parallax. I set mine, and no joke, don't touch it from 300 to 1400+. Super nice.

Still waiting on a ZCO 3.5-18x50 30mm tube at -26oz done right....and you will see a flood of high end scopes hit the used market from me.
Click to expand...


3EX.gif
 
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#411
lancetkenyon said:
One great thing about the TT315M, is the parallax. I set mine, and no joke, don't touch it from 300 to 1400+. Super nice.

Still waiting on a ZCO 3.5-18x50 30mm tube at -26oz done right....and you will see a flood of high end scopes hit the used market from me.
Click to expand...
Might have trouble with the negative 26 ounces. Just saying. 😉

Getting <26oz that seems more probable.
 
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#416
Working on finishing another build in .223 for a varmint AR15 and I am looking at options again. I just really wish we had some more mid range, 30mm, lightweight FFP optics available. I could have sworn the March 1.5-15 was FFP, but I guess not. What is our current list of mid range 30mm FFP options on the high end with a decent recticle and faily lightweight? I may just go with another 1-10 but I really wouldn't mind stretching into that 15x range and giving up a little on the low end. Until ZCO comes through, where do we stand on:
  • FFP
  • GOOD glass
  • MIL Tree based reticle
  • 24 ounces or less
  • Low end of 1.5-3
  • Top end 12-16
What are our current options?
 
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#417
Burdy said:
Working on finishing another build in .223 for a varmint AR15 and I am looking at options again. I just really wish we had some more mid range, 30mm, lightweight FFP optics available. I could have sworn the March 1.5-15 was FFP, but I guess not. What is our current list of mid range 30mm FFP options on the high end with a decent recticle and faily lightweight? I may just go with another 1-10 but I really wouldn't mind stretching into that 15x range and giving up a little on the low end. Until ZCO comes through, where do we stand on:
  • FFP
  • GOOD glass
  • MIL Tree based reticle
  • 24 ounces or less
  • Low end of 1.5-3
  • Top end 12-16
What are our current options?
Click to expand...
Tangent Theta TT315M with Gen3XR reticle is 27.8 oz INCLUDING scope caps and doesn't have much competition in the high end/lightweight market. I didn't weigh mine without caps, but it should be about 26oz bare. The Gen3xr will be pretty thin though.

The 3-24x52 March might be a consideration as well. I think you'll need to drop a couple items from your wish list for the options to really open up.
 
#419
Burdy said:
Working on finishing another build in .223 for a varmint AR15 and I am looking at options again. I just really wish we had some more mid range, 30mm, lightweight FFP optics available. I could have sworn the March 1.5-15 was FFP, but I guess not. What is our current list of mid range 30mm FFP options on the high end with a decent recticle and faily lightweight? I may just go with another 1-10 but I really wouldn't mind stretching into that 15x range and giving up a little on the low end. Until ZCO comes through, where do we stand on:
  • FFP
  • GOOD glass
  • MIL Tree based reticle
  • 24 ounces or less
  • Low end of 1.5-3
  • Top end 12-16
What are our current options?
Click to expand...
You're asking for a unicorn right now, it just doesn't exist. There are very few scopes that come even remotely close to this criteria, there are those that check some boxes but not all, if you had to give up one of these options which would it be?
 
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#420
Glassaholic said:
You're asking for a unicorn right now, it just doesn't exist. There are very few scopes that come even remotely close to this criteria, there are those that check some boxes but not all, if you had to give up one of these options which would it be?
Click to expand...
Oh yes, I know. I've been vocal about this hole in the market for years, not only here, but also with certain manufactures that I could have influence on. If I give up anything, I just have to give up the high end mag range and use a 1-10, which I already am on a couple other platforms. Reticle selection, FFP and weight are non-negotiables on the platforms I seek this configuration for. ZCO literally stands for Zero Compromise so I expect when this thing finally comes to market I don't have to give up a damn thing!
 
#421
Burdy said:
Working on finishing another build in .223 for a varmint AR15 and I am looking at options again. I just really wish we had some more mid range, 30mm, lightweight FFP optics available. I could have sworn the March 1.5-15 was FFP, but I guess not. What is our current list of mid range 30mm FFP options on the high end with a decent recticle and faily lightweight? I may just go with another 1-10 but I really wouldn't mind stretching into that 15x range and giving up a little on the low end. Until ZCO comes through, where do we stand on:
  • FFP
  • GOOD glass
  • MIL Tree based reticle
  • 24 ounces or less
  • Low end of 1.5-3
  • Top end 12-16
What are our current options?
Click to expand...

First Focal Plane riflescopes | First - focal plane reticle position | Best First - Focal Plane scopes - Optics-Trade

FFP reticle position
www.optics-trade.eu www.optics-trade.eu
 
#422
Burdy said:
Working on finishing another build in .223 for a varmint AR15 and I am looking at options again. I just really wish we had some more mid range, 30mm, lightweight FFP optics available. I could have sworn the March 1.5-15 was FFP, but I guess not. What is our current list of mid range 30mm FFP options on the high end with a decent recticle and faily lightweight? I may just go with another 1-10 but I really wouldn't mind stretching into that 15x range and giving up a little on the low end. Until ZCO comes through, where do we stand on:
  • FFP
  • GOOD glass
  • MIL Tree based reticle
  • 24 ounces or less
  • Low end of 1.5-3
  • Top end 12-16
What are our current options?
Click to expand...
Not saying the Bushnell elite tactical 3-12 is what you are looking for, but it is FFP, 3-12x, 24oz and had a mil tree based reticle. Glass and turrets probably wont meet your standards through. I'm not sure someone could expand the mag range, offer better turrets and glass and keep the weight the same.

Leupold mark 6 3-18 meets your specs, but questionable turrets.

What's an acceptable level of glass?
 
#423
Thorbeast said:
Not saying the Bushnell elite tactical 3-12 is what you are looking for, but it is FFP, 3-12x, 24oz and had a mil tree based reticle. Glass and turrets probably wont meet your standards through. I'm not sure someone could expand the mag range, offer better turrets and glass and keep the weight the same.

Leupold mark 6 3-18 meets your specs, but questionable turrets.

What's an acceptable level of glass?
Click to expand...
I've had a couple of elite tacticals and my main problem there was length since I use clip ons (and some with non locking turrets).

It would seem Leupold could get off that 35mm tube train and make a MK5HD that could easily fill the role if they wanted.
 
#424
Burdy said:
I've had a couple of elite tacticals and my main problem there was length since I use clip ons (and some with non locking turrets).

It would seem Leupold could get off that 35mm tube train and make a MK5HD that could easily fill the role if they wanted.
Click to expand...
Leupold and Vortex seem more than capable of filling this niche. Maybe another LHT FFP in a 2.5-12x42 flavor, but would rather see a 2-12x42, I have the Athlon BTR Gen 2 2-12x42 and it's the only CCP scope I own, but it is very impressive (doesn't meet your reticle requirement though).
 
#425
Burdy said:
Working on finishing another build in .223 for a varmint AR15 and I am looking at options again. I just really wish we had some more mid range, 30mm, lightweight FFP optics available. I could have sworn the March 1.5-15 was FFP, but I guess not. What is our current list of mid range 30mm FFP options on the high end with a decent recticle and faily lightweight? I may just go with another 1-10 but I really wouldn't mind stretching into that 15x range and giving up a little on the low end. Until ZCO comes through, where do we stand on:
  • FFP
  • GOOD glass
  • MIL Tree based reticle
  • 24 ounces or less
  • Low end of 1.5-3
  • Top end 12-16
What are our current options?
Click to expand...
Have you used mx8 2.5-20 ?

It’s a great scope
 
#426
Glassaholic said:
Leupold and Vortex seem more than capable of filling this niche. Maybe another LHT FFP in a 2.5-12x42 flavor, but would rather see a 2-12x42, I have the Athlon BTR Gen 2 2-12x42 and it's the only CCP scope I own, but it is very impressive (doesn't meet your reticle requirement though).
Click to expand...
Yes I have two of the LHT 1.5-8's and the 4.5-22, so I would agree a mid ranger in FFP would do the job. I'll have a look at the athlon but I'll be honest I have had a blind eye turned toward that tier of scopes for a while now. Doesn't mean they are not worthy, as I was a fan of, and running the bushnell elites long before most caught on to what kind of value they were.
deersniper said:
Have you used mx8 2.5-20 ?

It’s a great scope
Click to expand...
Yes it is, a bit heavy for my tastes. They might could have gotten there with a 42 or 44 objective.....
 
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#430
Vynz said:
@Burdy As a temporary solution I got the USO TS-12x scope. It’s Chinese made, doesn’t have illumination. However its 3-12x44, 18oz, FFP mil reticle, tracks well, and has decent glass for the price.
Click to expand...
I actually looked at that earlier today. I would be giving up on the Tree reticle, but the rest is there if the glass is decent. Honestly, I like the .25 hashes as well. I may give one a look.
 
#440
fdkay said:
It's compressible, no?
Click to expand...
Well yes. But compression increases pressure. And I don't know if I want a bomb in my face to that extent. You’re looking at 205,743psi of pressure to get 0.1 liter of helium in there to offset the weight of the scope. That's if 1400 liters is sufficient to offset 52oz.

So no. It's not happening.
 
#441
Krob95 said:
Well yes. But compression increases pressure. And I don't know if I want a bomb in my face to that extent. You’re looking at 205,743psi of pressure to get 0.1 liter of helium in there to offset the weight of the scope. That's if 1400 liters is sufficient to offset 52oz.

So no. It's not happening.
Click to expand...
Also doesn't it work by displacing the air with something less dense? If you compress it it defeats the purpose.
 
#442
So any updates? I ended up buying parts for another 300wsm and will be needing glass for next year. I shot a elk at 10yds this year with my NX8 2.5-20 so it definitely reaffirmed the need for a usable low end. I could only see the reticle with the illumination on.
 
#443
jbuck88 said:
So any updates? I ended up buying parts for another 300wsm and will be needing glass for next year. I shot a elk at 10yds this year with my NX8 2.5-20 so it definitely reaffirmed the need for a usable low end. I could only see the reticle with the illumination on.
Click to expand...
It was 10
Yards just center the scope on it
 
#444
There was a herd and needed to pick a clear shot. That was definitely the closest I've ever been, but reaffirming on the low end being usable around 2 or 3. Needed to make a clean high neck/head shot after ID'ing the right elk.
 
#445
jbuck88 said:
So any updates? I ended up buying parts for another 300wsm and will be needing glass for next year. I shot a elk at 10yds this year with my NX8 2.5-20 so it definitely reaffirmed the need for a usable low end. I could only see the reticle with the illumination on.
Click to expand...
It looks like March is going to beat them to it with their 1.5-15.
 
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#449
I'm sure ZCO does not want to put out a scope that some people think looks great on paper that does not translate well in practice.
We have seen that with many scopes that have ~10X erectors, short and as light as can be that don't do much well while being unforgiving and finicky.
 
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#450
CSTactical said:
I'm sure ZCO does not want to put out a scope that some people think looks great on paper that does not translate well in practice.
We have seen that with many scopes that have ~10X erectors, short and as light as can be that don't do much well while being unforgiving and finicky.
Click to expand...

This....
I would gladly give up the 10x erector to be a little more forgiving then my nx8. It's OK for what it is.
 
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