What mount are you running?Have 3 SB’s lefty has never been an issue. (with correct mount)
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What mount are you running?Have 3 SB’s lefty has never been an issue. (with correct mount)
Can you PM me the details? I'd be interested in hearing how you're running a S&B with illum on a lefty rifle.Badger Ordinance rings...
I bought an S&B 525 PMII about 5 years ago. Loved the glass. Turrets were ok but a touch heavy IMO. Really loved it, but on a Tahr hunt in the NZ Southern Alps, about 2 years ago, the parallax failed on the first day for no apparent reason. That was my trip done and dusted! It was fixed under warranty, but I no longer had faith in it. I sold it and bought a Kahles. Next purchase will be ZCO. The turrets are soooo much better than S&B.No worries sir. Just sharing my opinion so worth what it cost ya.
I have Okie friends and others that have run S&Bs for years with little or no problems so they obviously do a lot right. We have just seen more mechanical failures with the S&Bs than the others mentioned across several years and a lot of classes.
Many were turret related with the Parallax turret leading the charge. Many others were zero retention issues that for some reason are almost all Windage specific. Owners would even send back to S&B warranty, S&B would mount in a fixture and replicate heavy recoil, scope would pass inspection and upon return the first time it gets bumped especially from the side, they could get stupid.
When I had a life .... and was first considering going to FFP I borrowed a friends tan S&B with lockers to shoot a couple of matches.
It was stellar. I could see little things that I never saw with my other scopes especially to do with impacts and trace. It was very impressive. No issues.
Over the next 36 to 48 months we saw literally dozens of others have mechanical issues.
Go figure.
./
I have both, ZCO527 and SB525 with DT turret.I bought an S&B 525 PMII about 5 years ago. Loved the glass. Turrets were ok but a touch heavy IMO. Really loved it, but on a Tahr hunt in the NZ Southern Alps, about 2 years ago, the parallax failed on the first day for no apparent reason. That was my trip done and dusted! It was fixed under warranty, but I no longer had faith in it. I sold it and bought a Kahles. Next purchase will be ZCO. The turrets are soooo much better than S&B.
And you know this how Terry?May not be "the" reason but the ZCO scopes are much more mechanically robust than the S&Bs.
The ZCO's are the only other scopes we have seen that are in the same league as NF and Vortex Razors when it comes to toughness.
./
I don’t know why people continue to beat on guys like @Terry CrossAnd you know this how Terry?
You have done 810G/H environmental test on ZCOs or even taken a S&B or ZCO apart for inspection to determine mechanical and design "robustness" ?
Please expound on on your professional data and not a Dodge is tougher than Ford blanket statement.
I have both, ZCO527 and SB525 with DT turret.
Regarding the turret, I can't tell which is better. SB DT turrents are heavy and clicky while ZCO turrents feel mussy and heavy too.
The locking mechanism for ZCO is both good and bad. IF the internal gears for ZCO turrents are machined correctly then the turret should lock into place everywhere on any clicks and align with painted marks outside. However this is not always the case where even the later batch from this year, the alignment issue still exists and happen to the first scope I received -- no matter how I micro adjust the turrent cap, there is no way the turret can smoothly lock into place in all clicks.
Luckly the customer service is good and they offered the free replacement in the end.
My 5-27 and 4-20 line up just fine using the proper procedure as described above.Not saying I don't believe you due to your low post count because this is easy to confirm, but the way you describe the turrets does not sound like you're familiar with a ZCO nor spoke to anyone that would have explained it to you if there was a "problem." From the manual:
5. Finally, follow this three-step procedure for proper turret
locking operation: First, in the unlocked position, loosen the
turret set screws then rotate the turret clockwise and align
the zero mark with the reference line on the scope body.
Second, lightly tighten the turret set screws then push the
turret inward to the locked position to ensure proper spline
engagement. Third, loosen then re-tighten the turret set
screws to 0,5Nm or 4,5 in/lbs. Your turret will now have
proper spline engagement as well as alignment with the
reference mark.
And you know this how Terry?
You have done 810G/H environmental test on ZCOs or even taken a S&B or ZCO apart for inspection to determine mechanical and design "robustness" ?
Please expound on on your professional data and not a Dodge is tougher than Ford blanket statement.
My 5-27 and 4-20 line up just fine using the proper procedure as described above.
The internet is a "playground" of sorts. Some feel the need to find the biggest person on the playground, and regardless if that person has antagonized them, they seek to try and pick a fight.Man, this sharfshutz guy sounds like a real jerk.
Probably shoots with a chinese scope and a nagant.Man, this sharfshutz guy sounds like a real jerk.
And you know this how Terry?
You have done 810G/H environmental test on ZCOs or even taken a S&B or ZCO apart for inspection to determine mechanical and design "robustness" ?
Please expound on on your professional data and not a Dodge is tougher than Ford blanket statement.
But i did pick up a CSR based on your feedback. Thank youNo. I think he's a former marine because he corrected me on spelling Marine Corps. I spelled it as Corpse. But that's all I know.
Thats just crazy. The 5-45 was worse too? What didn't you like vs the NF and ZCO?ZCO >>>>>Bender.
maybe I got 2 bad ones but I had a 5-25 and 5-45 and my Nightforce’s look better let alone my zco
The image was brown/dark. Nightforce is crisp / blue. Same for ZCO but moreThats just crazy. The 5-45 was worse too? What didn't you like vs the NF and ZCO?
The image was brown/dark. Nightforce is crisp / blue. Same for ZCO but more
2 other eyes agreed on the 5-45 suckage
The serial number was DA187 and the unit was sent back to your Austria factory you can check for any inspection record.Not saying I don't believe you due to your low post count because this is easy to confirm, but the way you describe the turrets does not sound like you're familiar with a ZCO nor spoke to anyone that would have explained it to you if there was a "problem." From the manual:
5. Finally, follow this three-step procedure for proper turret
locking operation: First, in the unlocked position, loosen the
turret set screws then rotate the turret clockwise and align
the zero mark with the reference line on the scope body.
Second, lightly tighten the turret set screws then push the
turret inward to the locked position to ensure proper spline
engagement. Third, loosen then re-tighten the turret set
screws to 0,5Nm or 4,5 in/lbs. Your turret will now have
proper spline engagement as well as alignment with the
reference mark.
More like the guys in the squad that win most of the matches resquaded and called their new squad ZCOSchmidt has been making top tier scopes for 20 years. I bought my first 5x25 in 2007. Had it for over a decade. That scope had combat stripes.
Let's hold off and let ZCO be around for more than a month of Sundays and then we can compare the two companies. It's like the guy that won the last 10 matches and then has a bad day and the guy that shot his first beat him and is patting himself on the back about how good he is. Let's see how he does over the long term.
I don't need a permanent vagina users guide in my field of view.
You don’t like the Ranging Uterus ???I don't need a permanent vagina users guide in my field of view.
ZCO owner.
No homo.If you don’t like the Flying Vag, then you’re probably a little gay.
Tis a joke
Cheeto dustProbably shoots with a chinese scope and a nagant.
and has a stubby weiner covered in Cheeto dust in mom’s basement.
decent guess anyways.
Maybe you can get a ring to stick under there so it doesn’t go down.But forreal, it’s nice that ZCO takes into account what the people want and they listen to their customer base. Now if only they could make non locking turrets![]()
I tried to petition @Tyler Kemp to make a printed one and I think he had a prototype but I’m not sure what ever came of itMaybe you can get a ring to stick under there so it doesn’t go down.
like a wedding ring but bigger
What came of it is you just reminded me we need to get these on the site! I did them for ZCO and Razor Gen II. Please email [email protected] and tell Darlene I've been majorly slackingI tried to petition @Tyler Kemp to make a printed one and I think he had a prototype but I’m not sure what ever came of it![]()
Ayyyyyyy thanks homieWhat came of it is you just reminded me we need to get these on the site! I did them for ZCO and Razor Gen II. Please email [email protected] and tell Darlene I've been majorly slacking![]()
With my limited experience, I will say that I still have confidence in Schmidt & Bender. Allthough I have seen two go down at competitions, one of them was a 3.5-27x56 PM2 high power wich seems to be a bit more prone to trubble than their other designs.
My friend and I each bought a 5-25x56 PM2 a few years ago. Mine never had a problem but something came loose in my friend scope and it has been down in Germany for a repair. It was done very fast and professional just as one would expect, with a few weeks turn around time. I think that you guys in the US with your own service center gets things done a bit quicker?
Anyhow, I have been reading (a lot) and looking at anything and everything about the ZCO scopes just like anyone else here at the hide and at a big competition about a month ago I had the opportunity to look through a 5-27x56 ZCO. As it is I am shooting with a brand new Kahles K624i, but have had a PM2, a Delta Stryker, a Vortex Razor G2 and a Hensoldt 4-16x56 and has looked through a bunch of other high end scopes. So I turned the dials and twisted the turrets, looked through the ZCO and scoped some targets at one of the bigger stages of that competition. And while I can say that I was in no way dissapointed with what I saw, there was really nothing that made me feel that it would be worth spending another 1500$ over what I just spent on the Kahles to get one either. And my older Schmidt PM2 is on par with both of them.
I am turning more and more into the crowd that states that alpha-glass is alpha-glass. Pick a reticle that you like and spend as much money as you are comfortable with. You wont be able to buy more hits with a switch between a PM2 and a ZCO or a ZCO to a March or any other hight end scope for that matter, it just does not work that way. To me, the worst scope to look through was the Vortex Razor G2, but your milage may vary.
Many of my thoughts. I'm in full agreeance with you on the razor gen Ii. I think it's used price reflects where it lands.
I don't like moving scopes. I tend to zero them and leave them on the rifle. 1 rifle for matches, and a growing collection of them for various sized hunting (.22's up to 280ai currently, trying to fill in every gap).
I find myself going back to the Mark 5's, the nx8, and anything I find used locally in that price range. They're plenty good enough, have the feature set, and I can outfit 2 rifles instead of 1. Every time I get the idea I can buy a "cheap" scope I get disappointed in it. However, I can't see the difference with my eye between the ZCO/S&B/Kahles, etc. So I'm still buying a "cheap" scope at half the cost, yet they're so close I'm not ending up disappointed.
There is a big gap in price to performance once you crest the $2500 mark. Just have to decide if it's worth it on an individual level. I have a collection of toys to play with, and I'm realistic that I can afford many more if I spend less individually.
But forreal, it’s nice that ZCO takes into account what the people want and they listen to their customer base. Now if only they could make non locking turrets![]()
I don’t know why people continue to beat on guys like @Terry Cross
These guys are working in professional environments and there’s no need to take a scope apart to look inspect it. The scope works or it doesn’t
They base their opinions on a multitude of scopes that come through their training classes. Scopes run through the same training and see first hand which hold up better
So far the vx-5 in htmr/mil is 100%, and couple mark 5 5-25 tmr mil are 100%.
For the money, they're hard to beat. I may change my mind if I get a bad one someday.
Now, if I won a sizable lottery tomorrow, I'd have CS send me about 15 ZCO's to outfit my current fleet.