Zealot Rifle Chassis by KMW

[Terry Cross]

Please don't take any of my comments in a negative way. My preferences are no more valid than any other consumers'.

As a manufacturing professional of 26 years, I think your design and engineering appears impressive to say the least.

Not at all. I didn't take it in any negative manner.
I try to listen to ALL feedback and critiques. Some I have already anticipated months or years ago with this design and I am very much anticipating shit coming to light that I didn't even think of at the same time.

All good and thanks for participating in the discussion.

./

 

[Eric32]

All i can say is, i want!

 

[Terry Cross]

Here is a straight side profile view that highlights how low the rifle sits in the Zealot.
Only about half of the bolt body is visible above the waterline of the stock.

 

[Terry Cross]

More insights into how this was done....

./

 

[gnochi]

More insights into how this was done....

View attachment 7732797

View attachment 7732798

./

What’s the maximum shroud OD that will fit down the channel?

That aside, keeping the buttpad inline with the bore is one of the things that ARs and MRADs do right.

 

[Terry Cross]

Stock folded...

 

[Terry Cross]

What’s the maximum shroud OD that will fit down the channel?

That aside, keeping the buttpad inline with the bore is one of the things that ARs and MRADs do right.

Not sure sir.
I made it to clear all the R700 and clones that I knew of with a little room to spare.
I will try to find time to open the model and see what the max is.

./

 

[Eric32]

I honeslty cant wait for the comp version.

Does the bedding lend it self to a bedding job for a 100% fit. And to cut down the tuning fork ping sound?

 

[kthomas]

The first thought when I saw this chassis was that this is the chassis that PGW should've made for their rifles.

Same/similar intent (functional working rifle chassis for LE/MIL), but the Zealot is obviously way better thought out and feature rich.

I always thought PGW dropped the ball on their chassis, but a PGW in a Zealot would be very cool!

Sorry for the random thought/sidetrack.

 

[J-Ham]

God that chassis is SO bad.

 

[Terry Cross]

We all know chassis don't shoot, right?

I stuck this 6.5CM barreled action into the Zealot before leaving the same day for the Expo. Bore sighted it and went to the range. All I had was PRIME 130gr ammo at the shop so that is what I took. Got lucky with the bore sighting and the first shot edged the little circle at 100yds. Shot two more and decided this was an omen to stop, so I went 2/10ths down on the turret and put the gun in the truck.

Drove over 500 miles to Blakely Georgia and checked in. I thought we were going to be able to have the rifle on the 1K line to shoot and had reserved some of the Federal 130gr Berger factory ammo at the Expo for the occasion. Got my ammo from Phil and went to the short range to see if the Federal was going to have the same 100yd zero as the Prime.

Not sure where they got the paper targets they posted for zero checks but my brain didn't like the looks of it.
I picked one of the teeny dots on the bottom, center figuring the Hoplite crew wouldn't feel crowded shooting the same backer.

All the dots were about .25" judging how they looked at 22X.
I sent 5 at the dot and immediately got a warm fuzzy groovy baby comfort vibe. We couldn't go downrange so I tried to capture what I could of the zero check through the old school NXS. Image via my phone camera behind the scope sucks but I have to share anyway.

I packed my shit back in the truck and left the Hoplite crew to their magic elixir tests. They prolly shoot groups this size at 1K with the Aspis but my redneck self was happy at 100.

The Zealot carries the same CAD from the long proven I.M.B. internal chassis used on the SENTINEL and LongSword stocks. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. At least I know the chassis can transport and bounce around 500 miles of country roads in a Truck Vault drawer and still retain zero.

This is also a testament to the PRIME and Federal Match ammo. This barreled action always shoots the PRIME like this but this was my first ever shots with the Federal.

./

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

The L.E. model will not have a vertically adjustable butt pad as issued.
Anyone owning an L.E. model will later be able to purchase and install the adjustable butt pad as designed for the Comp version once it is in production.

Not going to predict the when the vert. adj. butt will be available. I don't even have the above version of Zealot shipping yet, so first things first.

./

Yeah I understand that and I think you will be quite busy with orders for the LE chassis exactly as it is now. It's got so much innovation in it and is awesome.

I was specifically thinking about the comp version when it comes out. I'm sort of a "tweener" where I like a lot of the typical comp chassis type features, but I'm not into adding this ridiculous amount of weight to my rifle. I don't count ounces or anything, but I don't enjoy lugging a 20+ lb rifle around either. I'm actually not sure if I will even need vertical adjustment on your chassis since it's set so much lower with its bore axis anyway. I would only need to angle the butt plate a little. (Similar to how frank does his )

I know that's in the future and I would need a lefty to boot anyway. This LE is an awesome chassis and it works. All of the features on the chassis actually work vs just sounding cool, but not functioning as intended on many other set ups.

I particularly like the lack of thumb screws on the but stock, as well as the mag well set up that will not allow a mag to bind up on a barricade. Really slick set up.

 

[Terry Cross]

Yeah I understand that and I think you will be quite busy with orders for the LE chassis exactly as it is now. It's got so much innovation in it and is awesome.

I was specifically thinking about the comp version when it comes out. I'm sort of a "tweener" where I like a lot of the typical comp chassis type features, but I'm not into adding this ridiculous amount of weight to my rifle. I don't count ounces or anything, but I don't enjoy lugging a 20+ lb rifle around either. I'm actually not sure if I will even need vertical adjustment on your chassis since it's set so much lower with its bore axis anyway. I would only need to angle the butt plate a little. (Similar to how frank does his )

I know that's in the future and I would need a lefty to boot anyway. This LE is an awesome chassis and it works. All of the features on the chassis actually work vs just sounding cool, but not functioning as intended on many other set ups.

I particularly like the lack of thumb screws on the but stock, as well as the mag well set up that will not allow a mag to bind up on a barricade. Really slick set up.

Yes sir. I'm tracking and Thank You for the feedback.
I will definitely have some sugar for the left handers once running solid and will post the update.

./

 

[Terry Cross]

I honeslty cant wait for the comp version.

Does the bedding lend it self to a bedding job for a 100% fit. And to cut down the tuning fork ping sound?

As far as lending itself to bedding, I can't even speculate.
A butt load of work has gone into utilizing the track record of the SENTINEL's IMB chassis in the new Zealot so I am hoping for good results out of the gate. There was absolutely zero time or thought spent on making it bedding friendly.

We have not experienced the ping but then again I am half deaf and not real smart.

That being said, anything can be bedded with proper prep.

./

 

[Eric32]

No worries thanks ill be on the list either way

 

[WB300]

Just beginning a build for PRS with an Origin action. I believe this chasis just became 1st choice.

Well done Sir!

 

[JustSendit]

Whoa that’s cool, I like it all. I actually strongly dislike built in ARCA for various reasons and having the option to switch or use alternate arca rails is important. Love the folding design, and the stock weight at 4-5lbs, tool less butt stock, solid. I need one.

 

[Bugholes]

Terry-
This looks great. You clearly take the time to address items and issues that others skip over
Do we have any idea how much gumbo can be stashed in the grip?

 

[Terry Cross]

Terry-
This looks great. You clearly take the time to address items and issues that others skip over
Do we have any idea how much gumbo can be stashed in the grip?

Volumetric analysis determines the grip can store 2.34 cubic centimeters of gumbo but sadly no rice.

You have to admit it has changed a bit since the picnic table discussion at Seneca. I appreciate your advice on what to leave alone.

Thanks Greg. I appreciate the words. Take care.

T.

 

[Gil P.]

Is the grip on the Zealot farther from the trigger than the Sentinel? The Sentinel has the most comfortable shape and trigger reach for me.

I was going to ask if the Zealot uses the IMB, but it looks like you already answered my question. I can't think of a reason to bed an action in it. The IMB feels like it sucks the action into it when you're torquing it down.

How wide is the bottom of the forend? Not having an Arca rail there gives you more freedom to make the forend wider than 1.5 inches.

The Sentinel seemed to place the action low in the stock as well. I never felt the need to raise the butt pad or raise the cheek piece very high to get a good cheek weld. Since the action sits even lower on the Zealot, I'd imagine butt pad height wouldn't be an issue.

What contour and length barrel do you have on the pictured rifle? Where is the balance point on the rifle in that configuration?

 

[Gil P.]

Probably a dumb question but, can you remove the magazine while the rifle as attached to a tripod?

 

[Terry Cross]

Is the grip on the Zealot farther from the trigger than the Sentinel? The Sentinel has the most comfortable shape and trigger reach for me.

I was going to ask if the Zealot uses the IMB, but it looks like you already answered my question. I can't think of a reason to bed an action in it. The IMB feels like it sucks the action into it when you're torquing it down.

How wide is the bottom of the forend? Not having an Arca rail there gives you more freedom to make the forend wider than 1.5 inches.

The Sentinel seemed to place the action low in the stock as well. I never felt the need to raise the butt pad or raise the cheek piece very high to get a good cheek weld. Since the action sits even lower on the Zealot, I'd imagine butt pad height wouldn't be an issue.

What contour and length barrel do you have on the pictured rifle? Where is the balance point on the rifle in that configuration?

2.8" trigger reach on SENTINEL versus 2.93" trigger reach on the Zealot with MagPul grip.
This reach can be decreased by using a different grip like the MDT adjustable grip.

Bottom of forend dimensions:

Barreled action in the picture is a 27" Heavy Palma that was yanked from another SENTINEL at the last minute. Ridiculously front heavy.


./

 

[gebhardt02]

Outstanding!! Definitely going to get my pennies together so I can afford one.

 

[Terry Cross]

Probably a dumb question but, can you remove the magazine while the rifle as attached to a tripod?
View attachment 7732934

Not a dumb question at all.
The short ARCA is optimized for the ANVIL type clamps which are way shorter. I stuck it in the big ass BH-55 for the pic.
If you were running direct mount with the older BH-55 or similar, you would want to install a short M-Lok ARCA on the back of the forend.

./

 

[_Windrider_]

Not a dumb question at all.
The short ARCA is optimized for the ANVIL type clamps which are way shorter. I stuck it in the big ass BH-55 for the pic.
If you were running direct mount with the older BH-55 or similar, you would want to install a short M-Lok ARCA on the back of the forend.

./

Now the next question is……….did the dimensions of the anvil change with the announcement of the gen 2 and gen 2 RRS dovetail system.

 

[Bravo6niner]

What is the weight of the new chassis?

 

[Terry Cross]

Now the next question is……….did the dimensions of the anvil change with the announcement of the gen 2 and gen 2 RRS dovetail system.

Your post far more telling than at first glance.
THAT is exactly what any product design is ALWAYS fighting! Ugh!

Trigger clearance is good on every trigger group tested!. . . . . and then. . . . . . somebody comes out with a "New and improved" trigger that has parts in places that parts didn't use to reside.

Ditto for all the peripherals including the tripod clamps and all the iterations of accessories.

Nothing is guaranteed to work with everything for very long seemingly.

./

 

[Terry Cross]

What is the weight of the new chassis?

As already listed under "SPECS" in the opening post of this thread.
4.7 pounds.

./

 

[_Windrider_]

Your post far more telling than at first glance.
THAT is exactly what any product design is ALWAYS fighting! Ugh!

Trigger clearance is good on every trigger group tested!. . . . . and then. . . . . . somebody comes out with a "New and improved" trigger that has parts in places that parts didn't use to reside.

Ditto for all the peripherals including the tripod clamps and all the iterations of accessories.

Nothing is guaranteed to work with everything for very long seemingly.

./

Yeah it’s impossible to keep up. Manufacturers that use words like universal usually end up regretting it. Fortunately for RRS I know the dovetail dimensions didnt change, they just added the dimples on the bottom to aid in securing. As for the anvil head itself, I have no clue what changed…….but I ordered one

 

[Gil P.]

Your post far more telling than at first glance.
THAT is exactly what any product design is ALWAYS fighting! Ugh!

Trigger clearance is good on every trigger group tested!. . . . . and then. . . . . . somebody comes out with a "New and improved" trigger that has parts in places that parts didn't use to reside.

Ditto for all the peripherals including the tripod clamps and all the iterations of accessories.

Nothing is guaranteed to work with everything for very long seemingly.

./

That's what the M LOK is for lol. Unless that goes extinct for some reason.

 

[wichitaguns]

I'll ask the question, not hopeful, but any plans on a short limited run for us model 70/fn spr types?

 

[Terry Cross]

I'll ask the question, not hopeful, but any plans on a short limited run for us model 70/fn spr types?

Probably not.
I am a Win M70 whore and think they are one of the most classic rifles out there. Love the action feel and am actually looking for an old Pre64 in 300WM or 300H&H for an elk hunt next year.

Problem is that the 70 and SPR is a very small slice of the market, especially any 70/SPR market that would even look twice at the Zealot. I just don't think there would be any way to recoup the costs of design, test, program, etc. that would be necessary.

So.... I feel ya but that will likely not be in the cards.

Thanks for asking anyway.
You and yours have a safe week.

T.

.

 

[Terry Cross]

Is there enough clearance for barrel nut setups?

The chassis bed is 0.675" radius from the center of the bore and extends that path forward through the forend.
If your barrel nut setup can fall inside the 1.350" dia. cylindrical area, you are GTG.

./

 

[Terry Cross]

Whoa that’s cool, I like it all. I actually strongly dislike built in ARCA for various reasons and having the option to switch or use alternate arca rails is important. Love the folding design, and the stock weight at 4-5lbs, tool less butt stock, solid. I need one.

Thanks.

The final straw in my decision to not include an integrally machined ARCA in this particular model solidified because of 3 rifles I had come through the KMW shop in the last 18 months. I was already leaning away from it on the LE model because I absolutely needed this one to be hand friendly on both grip and forend to anyone forced into positional shooting/crisis marksmanship situations.

All 3 rifles were in name brand chassis (2 of one brand and 1 of another) that had integrally machined ARCA.
All 3 rifles had enough damage to at least one side of the ARCA rail that they would not clamp into any of the name brand tripod clamps and one of them had the sliding bipod mount that could not traverse the damaged rail section.

The ARCA design is a very robust dovetail compared to many others we see around different equipment, etc. However if you think about it, exactly where do these 15 to 20 pound rifles take abuse when they are thrown over railings, bumpers, window sills and barricades. . . The bottom of the forend! Most of the time the same area closer to the magwell.

So apparently the alloy being used on some is easier to damage/deform edges with impacts against other metal surfaces.
I was able to invert them (yes, just like Maverick and Goose) and make clean up passes on the deformed sections so they would work again pretty easily but didn't like the fact it was needed.

I know the typical comp shooter going to PRS/NRL/MICKEY MOUSE/OSCAR MEYER/ whatever matches will take better care in handling their equipment than shooters doing it for work so this phenomenon is likely rare. However, my shop is very, very tiny in the scheme of the entire market and I only see 0.01% of what's going on out there. So if I experienced 3 of these come in the shop (that is not why they were sent to me) in the last 18 months, then I have to assume it is happening in bigger numbers out there.

Maybe these were freaks and the users are abusive assholes (if you are reading this and are one of the 3 I am just playing "what if" ) but it showed me the feature can be damaged enough to be non serviceable.

The Comp version of the Zealot will likely have the integral ARCA but this version of it will remain naked and afraid.


./

 

[DJL2]

This was one of the highlights of the Expo for me. I'm still a neophyte, so this was the first time I'd gotten to see anything KMW in the flesh. I'm a traditional stock guy at heart, but, that being said, the engineering that went into this chassis is really cool/impressive to me - Terry taking what must have been an hour out of his day to have an in depth discussion that covered conceptual basics through to design and implementation was the real highlight. Absolute class act. I appreciate the 12.8" LOP, at least, because that tends to be right where I run with my tiny little Dackel arms. The ease of maintenance and accessibility is really well thought out.

2.8" trigger reach on SENTINEL versus 2.93" trigger reach on the Zealot with MagPul grip.
./

This is gold... I now have a hard number for what "right" is in terms of trigger reach. The Sentinel works, most everything else is just plain too long. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'll be 100-mph taping foam to the front of my KRG so I can actually reach the trigger...

 

[Skunk]

I know where 400 of these chassis need to go….

 

[kthomas]

Thanks.

The final straw in my decision to not include an integrally machined ARCA in this particular model solidified because of 3 rifles I had come through the KMW shop in the last 18 months. I was already leaning away from it on the LE model because I absolutely needed this one to be hand friendly on both grip and forend to anyone forced into positional shooting/crisis marksmanship situations.

All 3 rifles were in name brand chassis (2 of one brand and 1 of another) that had integrally machined ARCA.
All 3 rifles had enough damage to at least one side of the ARCA rail that they would not clamp into any of the name brand tripod clamps and one of them had the sliding bipod mount that could not traverse the damaged rail section.

The ARCA design is a very robust dovetail compared to many others we see around different equipment, etc. However if you think about it, exactly where do these 15 to 20 pound rifles take abuse when they are thrown over railings, bumpers, window sills and barricades. . . The bottom of the forend! Most of the time the same area closer to the magwell.

So apparently the alloy being used on some is easier to damage/deform edges with impacts against other metal surfaces.
I was able to invert them (yes, just like Maverick and Goose) and make clean up passes on the deformed sections so they would work again pretty easily but didn't like the fact it was needed.

I know the typical comp shooter going to PRS/NRL/MICKEY MOUSE/OSCAR MEYER/ whatever matches will take better care in handling their equipment than shooters doing it for work so this phenomenon is likely rare. However, my shop is very, very tiny in the scheme of the entire market and I only see 0.01% of what's going on out there. So if I experienced 3 of these come in the shop (that is not why they were sent to me) in the last 18 months, then I have to assume it is happening in bigger numbers out there.

Maybe these were freaks and the users are abusive assholes (if you are reading this and are one of the 3 I am just playing "what if" ) but it showed me the feature can be damaged enough to be non serviceable.

The Comp version of the Zealot will likely have the integral ARCA but this version of it will remain naked and afraid.


./

This is a really interesting point, and makes the argument to use removable ARCA (in your case through the use of M-LOK), much more compelling.

I haven't heard of ARCA rails being damaged, but then again, I don't build/service rifles for LE/MIL groups (or for anyone in general).

I can certainly understand now why you would away from integral ARCA. Thanks for sharing your thought process.

 

[b6graham]

This is a really interesting point, and makes the argument to use removable ARCA (in your case through the use of M-LOK), much more compelling.

I haven't heard of ARCA rails being damaged, but then again, I don't build/service rifles for LE/MIL groups (or for anyone in general).

I can certainly understand now why you would away from integral ARCA. Thanks for sharing your thought process.

probably why SO Customs and A419 both make full length rails for MPA chassis

KRG does the same

it makes sense to me. replace a $120 rail versus a $1200 chassis

 

[_Windrider_]

probably why SO Customs and A419 both make full length rails for MPA chassis

KRG does the same

it makes sense to me. replace a $120 rail versus a $1200 chassis

It’s a trade off from my feeble observations. The weak link in add on rails are the screws attaching them. Enough force could break those as well. The advantage here in the zealot could be, if the arca was integral, is you would only need to replace the lower half of the handguard instead of the whole handguard.

 

[ohiofarmer]

It’s a trade off from my feeble observations. The weak link in add on rails are the screws attaching them. Enough force could break those as well. The advantage here in the zealot could be, if the arca was integral, is you would only need to replace the lower half of the handguard instead of the whole handguard.

The lower half of the handguard is integral with the main body

 

[Steel head]

Not having an integral arca rail is a plus for any chassis focused on working instead of gaming.

 

[_Windrider_]

The lower half of the handguard is integral with the main body

Ah. You are correct. I missed that little detail. I thought it was three pieces.

 

[kthomas]

probably why SO Customs and A419 both make full length rails for MPA chassis

KRG does the same

it makes sense to me. replace a $120 rail versus a $1200 chassis

I personally don't own any chassis' with integral ARCA rails.

However, I do have a couple of JAE chassis's and a KRG Bravo that both have removable rails. The JAE rail is one of the smartest designs I've seen, incorporating geometry to mitigate any flex issues.

Anyways, back to the Zealot. Badass looking chassis, if I had more funds, I would certainly look into buying one. This is one of the very few modern chassis' that really piques my interest. Most other chassis systems today to me are a bit on the "meh" side.

 

[bas402]

Will this chassis accept an MTU contour? Also you refer to both the MDT adjustables and MPA verticals grips being compatable so I assume it's A2 style? Sorry if this has been addressed but a lot of info has gone back and forth.

 

[Choid]

That looks fantastic. You don't know this, because I am not quite dumb enough to out myself on here, but you built my first ever really great rifle, and it looks like you haven't slowed down even a little bit over the years.

 

[wichitaguns]

Probably not.
I am a Win M70 whore and think they are one of the most classic rifles out there. Love the action feel and am actually looking for an old Pre64 in 300WM or 300H&H for an elk hunt next year.

Problem is that the 70 and SPR is a very small slice of the market, especially any 70/SPR market that would even look twice at the Zealot. I just don't think there would be any way to recoup the costs of design, test, program, etc. that would be necessary.

So.... I feel ya but that will likely not be in the cards.
Totally agree with you. Sad but true.
Good luck with the chassis. Looks awesomd

T.

.

 

[Terry Cross]

Ah. You are correct. I missed that little detail. I thought it was three pieces.

The main body is 23+ pounds of 7075-T6 going into the machine and 2.5 pounds coming out.
One piece for sure! LOL.

.

 

[Terry Cross]

Will this chassis accept an MTU contour? Also you refer to both the MDT adjustables and MPA verticals grips being compatable so I assume it's A2 style? Sorry if this has been addressed but a lot of info has gone back and forth.

It will accept a full 1.250" non-tapered barrel.

You would just need to make sure any M-Lok accessories on the 6 o'clock axis have the appropriate screw length so the screw doesn't protruded unnecessarily past the nut.

I have not referred to the MPA vertical grip at all because I have no clue about it. It may or may not work. If I typed MPA, it was an error on my part.

The MDT will work for sure.


./

 

[Choid]

It will accept a full 1.250" non-tapered barrel.

You would just need to make sure any M-Lok accessories on the 6 o'clock axis have the appropriate screw length so the screw doesn't protruded unnecessarily past the nut.

I have not referred to the MPA vertical grip at all because I have no clue about it. It may or may not work. If I typed MPA, it was an error on my part.

The MDT will work for sure.


./

If it is tight, the Maxim Defense M-lok system is the ticket. Works great.

 

[Terry Cross]

It’s a trade off from my feeble observations. The weak link in add on rails are the screws attaching them. Enough force could break those as well.

I totally agree about fasteners being weak compared to an integrally machined feature. That is exactly why I tried really hard to avoid fasteners where possible on this design.

However. . . . . . . Any ARCA rail close to full length will likely have at least 4 independent M-Lok style lockups* holding it on. I would be OK with that much redundancy.

* Edited to add: Additional M-Lok fastener points are super easy to add on the centerline of the M-Lok compatible ARCA rails.

./