Zero Compromise Optic 2022 and beyond Poll
- Thread starter CSTactical
- Start date
A MPCT 2X reticle would be sick for when somehow have the funds for it. Ooo! Ooo! A price drop would be nice!
But seriously speaking, since I got rid of most of my shooting gear, I have noticed that I'm actually **NOT** poor. Strange.
But seriously speaking, since I got rid of most of my shooting gear, I have noticed that I'm actually **NOT** poor. Strange.
ZCO and "price drop / <$2k" don't belong in the same sentence. ZCO needs to stay true to their name...
I think they should sell their mpct3x reticle to other brands lol
I vote for a hunting scope. Around 3x on the low end and high end around 15-20'ish. If I get to add other options I would want an illumination, capped windage, tool less zero. I have a NX8 2.5-20 and NXS 2.5-10x42 on my hunting rifles currently and would upgrade both if I could. I've had too many leupold and vortex let me down to want to go down that road again.
Whatever they do, it should not be a pander to the lower end of the market. It never works out and they lose credibility (see porsche 914/924).
I'd like a 1.5-10, dual focal plane reticle with side focus.
Or a factory reticle change option.
I'd like a 1.5-10, dual focal plane reticle with side focus.
Or a factory reticle change option.
Schmidt 5-45 competitor from ZCO with a thin target reticle I would buy today.
Realistically I don't see an LPVO anytime in the future, but was just gauging interest cause why not? 
I know this is out of context for the survey, but I’d like to see some ZCO spotting scope and binocular products. The Tier-1 scope market is a bit crowded, but I suspect that all of us ZCO aficionados would quickly suck-up any amount of spotting scopes that they bring to market. How about a pair of titanium 10x40 binos for the hunting crowd? As an aging hunter, trimming every once that I can becomes a priority; funny though…I’d never compromise on my ZC420 hunting rigs. However, I’d gladly pay the extra cost for ZCO optics mounted in a lighter-weight titanium housing. At ZCO’s price points….give me a $500-700 option for titanium…and I’ll be happy to replace my two existing ZC420 hunting scopes.
To keep to theme of the survey…I would certainly buy a couple LPVO scopes (preferably in titanium) for some future builds.
Time to get off the pot and broaden the product line a bit!
To keep to theme of the survey…I would certainly buy a couple LPVO scopes (preferably in titanium) for some future builds.
Time to get off the pot and broaden the product line a bit!
Where does the line start?Should I add in the option of thick and long mandingo turrets?
I want one anyway.Realistically I don't see an LPVO anytime in the future, but was just gauging interest cause why not?
My personal opinion is the lightweight hunting option makes the most sense, both from a product development and from a market demand perspective. There are many lpvos on the market, ZCO could not really provide something extraordinary if it doesn't significantly improve usability and clarity, which will be hard to do with a 10x zoom ratio that is all the rage right now.
For the ELR scope I just don't see the market for it. Its a heavily specialised niche and probably 90% if not all of the ELR shooters have an account here and voice their want. Also as already mentioned, there is a lot of competition already. It would be a prestigious, flagship product though.
A lightweight ffp scope with locking low profile turrets will have a much wider possible application. If it competes with a Z8i weight wise, but offers modern features it could be a real sleeper and benchmark in the market. From general purpose hunting with the ability to take long range shots to dmr use it could develop into the perfect field scope.
For the ELR scope I just don't see the market for it. Its a heavily specialised niche and probably 90% if not all of the ELR shooters have an account here and voice their want. Also as already mentioned, there is a lot of competition already. It would be a prestigious, flagship product though.
A lightweight ffp scope with locking low profile turrets will have a much wider possible application. If it competes with a Z8i weight wise, but offers modern features it could be a real sleeper and benchmark in the market. From general purpose hunting with the ability to take long range shots to dmr use it could develop into the perfect field scope.
You do realize titanium is heavier than the aluminum they currently use? And most lightweight binoculars are magnesium housings. At any rate, I’d go for a lighter weight hunting / crossover scope if ZCO were to expand their product line in that direction.
Was looking for someone to say thisA lighter hunter/crossover option is needed in the ZCO price bracket. Let's face it, nobody likes the NX8 as much as they'd hoped for that role and the TT3-15 needs competition.
We want a lighter weight [sub 27oz] FFP package that will keep it's rugged qualities, maintain the perception of clear low distortion glass throughout the mag ranges, have good light transmission, with either easy to use locking turrets or stiff clicks [so not to accidentally push it off zero], with a very forgiving eyebox, reasonable eye relief, a clean looking reticle [meaning while using in the field it's not a distraction from what you're glassing, but rather an ambient aid], the reticle should be usable at the low power up against real life backgrounds without having to use the illumination, and last the scope should exhibit a low end at 2-3X and a high end at 14-20X.
A scope such as this would be seriously popular with hunters that buy higher end products such as Swaro, March, S&B, etc..., and it would bleed into the market that appeals to guys shooting DMR/SPR matches, guys caught up in the recce concept [fad], guys that actually use their rifles in the field that carry them around and have to take a likely "long" shot every so often or glass something from far away.
A scope like this would be extremely versatile and would compete directly against the TT3-15 series. If executed properly, it would be more feature rich than the TT and would beat the pants off any NF, S&B, Kahles, Swaro, Leupold, or Steiner people have currently filling these roles that I mentioned.
The community has already spoken to this concept.
Rifle Scopes - ZCO 2-16
When is ZCO going to make a scope similar in size and zoom to a NX8. Something like a 30mm 2-12 or 2-16?www.snipershide.com
I'm likely holding off on buying another NXS 2.5-10 or S&B Klassik 3-12 in expectation of this ZCO concept debuting 2023 or so. Please don't let me down.
Cheers
A 10-40x would be nice for a competition scope. A cleaner reticle like Minox MR4. Non illuminated to keep cost low.
For me the only thing I want out of the ZCO change is probably 10mils per revolution on the turret with bigger hash #'s so I can dial faster on the clock. The spacing is usually too fine that I end up double checking my dial. Going NLE is nice because at least lining it up with the larger locked hash is easier. But 10mils per rev would be great. I never need to worry about 15mils in 1 revolution
I'm pretty into my gadgets and have 3 long range rifle scopes with this function and have never seen the need to use it.
If dropping it resulted in a discount I'd be onboard.
Hell, I`d be good with more magnification of the top end too (50X / 60X)
The SB 3-12 x 50 Klassic is a 19oz scope. Cut down to a 42+/- objective and simplify the internals. I’m not an engineer to assess feasibility , but this seems a clear winning target product profile.
reticle design will be critical, the line weight for a tree reticle needs to be useable in the 8x+ range.
I'm not saying it can't be done, but what compromises are taken to get the weight down that low?
My thoughts on each:
1) Lightweight hunting scope:
The thing about doing a lightweight hunting scope is that there are a lot of different ways to go and each one of them has somebody doing it pretty well. If you do the sort of dumbed down hunting scope that assumes a hunter can't understand the concept of angular measurement you have Swarovski's hunting series with their little color coded adjustable markers on the turret and drop type reticles. They do this concept pretty well. At the other end, you could do a full feature precision rifle scope that is just light weight. The Leupold Mark 5HD's are this to a T. Though nowhere near a Zero Comp optically, they are competitive in features and performance with others in their price range despite being hella light.
I think the trickiest things about going with the lightweight hunting scope will be market share and getting the word out. I'm not sure there is as effective a vehicle of information dispersion to the well heeled hunting crowd as their is to the precision long range shooting crowd. There are certainly a lot of products produced for the market though. I'm sure ZCO would make an excellent one as all their products have been so. I'm just not sure how easy it would be to capture large market share with said product.
2) Higher magnification option:
Honestly, this one seams like a no-brainier to me. There has been a clear trend twords higher magnification and there would be relatively little direct competition for ZCO in the Alpha bracket with such a scope. Tangent doesn't do one, Kahless does a 2fp which is a scope for a different market, S&B's is lol expensive, and Minox doesn't do one at all. There really just isn't a current alpha version of the ATACR 7-35, Mark 5HD 7-35, or XRS3 6-36 yet these scopes have been killing it in sales. Doing an alpha version looks to me like an obvious win for ZCO.
3) LPVO:
So, I love LPVO's. The concept of having a single scope that can handle the huge versatility of shooting capabilities an AR platform type rifle embodies appeals to me. This has not proven an easy nut to crack though. Having a scope with a nice, wide, distortion free 1x field of view and bright flash dot type illumination while also being capable of going up to 8 or 10x and functiong as a precision long range scope at that magnification with zero stops, accurate turrets, and parallax adjustment has not been simple. I have tested many, though not all the current crop, and all have been at least somewhat lacking. Typically, the issues are poor or very eyebox sensitive illumination at close range or lacking turrets or parallax at long range. Frankly, I would love a better mousetrap in the LPVO arena. I do know that these things have proven a fount of frustration for optics companies though in terms of ballooning development costs, and eventual sales that did not meet expectations. As much as I would love to see ZCO make the LPVO that finally does it all well, I'm quite certain that wouldn't be the direction I would go given how it has gone for most of those who did. I don't think the sales of such a potential optic justify the costs and risks of developing one for a smaller company, even one with such exceptional optical design prowess.
1) Lightweight hunting scope:
The thing about doing a lightweight hunting scope is that there are a lot of different ways to go and each one of them has somebody doing it pretty well. If you do the sort of dumbed down hunting scope that assumes a hunter can't understand the concept of angular measurement you have Swarovski's hunting series with their little color coded adjustable markers on the turret and drop type reticles. They do this concept pretty well. At the other end, you could do a full feature precision rifle scope that is just light weight. The Leupold Mark 5HD's are this to a T. Though nowhere near a Zero Comp optically, they are competitive in features and performance with others in their price range despite being hella light.
I think the trickiest things about going with the lightweight hunting scope will be market share and getting the word out. I'm not sure there is as effective a vehicle of information dispersion to the well heeled hunting crowd as their is to the precision long range shooting crowd. There are certainly a lot of products produced for the market though. I'm sure ZCO would make an excellent one as all their products have been so. I'm just not sure how easy it would be to capture large market share with said product.
2) Higher magnification option:
Honestly, this one seams like a no-brainier to me. There has been a clear trend twords higher magnification and there would be relatively little direct competition for ZCO in the Alpha bracket with such a scope. Tangent doesn't do one, Kahless does a 2fp which is a scope for a different market, S&B's is lol expensive, and Minox doesn't do one at all. There really just isn't a current alpha version of the ATACR 7-35, Mark 5HD 7-35, or XRS3 6-36 yet these scopes have been killing it in sales. Doing an alpha version looks to me like an obvious win for ZCO.
3) LPVO:
So, I love LPVO's. The concept of having a single scope that can handle the huge versatility of shooting capabilities an AR platform type rifle embodies appeals to me. This has not proven an easy nut to crack though. Having a scope with a nice, wide, distortion free 1x field of view and bright flash dot type illumination while also being capable of going up to 8 or 10x and functiong as a precision long range scope at that magnification with zero stops, accurate turrets, and parallax adjustment has not been simple. I have tested many, though not all the current crop, and all have been at least somewhat lacking. Typically, the issues are poor or very eyebox sensitive illumination at close range or lacking turrets or parallax at long range. Frankly, I would love a better mousetrap in the LPVO arena. I do know that these things have proven a fount of frustration for optics companies though in terms of ballooning development costs, and eventual sales that did not meet expectations. As much as I would love to see ZCO make the LPVO that finally does it all well, I'm quite certain that wouldn't be the direction I would go given how it has gone for most of those who did. I don't think the sales of such a potential optic justify the costs and risks of developing one for a smaller company, even one with such exceptional optical design prowess.
Not sure about the US version but the Euro version (made in Hungary) is 21.83oz with illumination.
I think a hunting scope that could compete with the Polar T96 line from S&B would be a winner. There are lots of people in Europe that pay top dollar for a hunting rifle outfit and I think ZCOs would fit nicely into that.
I’m in the market for the same and I’m currently eyeing up a S&B 3-12x54 Polar T96 as a very solid option for a relatively short range ‘do-all’ hunting scope. I have ZCOs on a .22 and a CF - would love to complete the trio!
So, I'll be blunt: I'm not going to buy a LPVO that starts at 1x. Ever. At this point, I think they're utterly pointless, as so much effort goes into making it as usable as possible at 1x that it usually looks like looking through a needle at the top end.
To that end, I would love to see a mid-level magnification scope (10-16x on the high end) that is as light as possible and has small/short/less pronounced turrets that mount well with offset red dots. Its far easier and faster to cant the rifle or hold a chin weld than it is to try and rotate to 1x.
To that end, I would love to see a mid-level magnification scope (10-16x on the high end) that is as light as possible and has small/short/less pronounced turrets that mount well with offset red dots. Its far easier and faster to cant the rifle or hold a chin weld than it is to try and rotate to 1x.
As much as I'd love to see a ZCO 4-20 light tactical, I would have to agree with BJF here, the alpha class hunting market has very stiff competition from the likes of Swaro, Zeiss, Leica and others, though most of these are SFP. Vortex AMG took on the alpha class with a lighter weight FFP but the door has been left open for the midrange magnification or possibly MPVO alternative.
More than likely the best opportunity for ZCO would be for a higher magnification option, personally I have little use for above 25x with long range shooting due to atmospherics wrecking havoc on the image, but it is the "trendy" thing to do and outside of the Schmidt 5-45, March 5-42 and March 5-40 options there is little in the alpha class (though some rumors indicate we could see a couple that could push "alpha" in early 2022). @BigJimFish I did chuckle when I read your comment about the Schmidt being "lol expensive" and would agree, but in all honesty do you think a ZCO 5-40x56 would be much cheaper? Maybe an 8-40x56 design could stay within the realm of the current 5-27 but higher erectors typically generate higher costs.
I see the LPVO market as being flooded, though I do tend to agree that no one seems to have made the "better mousetrap" as you put it, the Vortex Gen III 1-10 has the best illumination I've ever seen but without adjustable parallax it struggles at long distances. Problem is how many LPVO's does Schmidt sell at over 2x the cost of the Vortex Gen III, most LPVO shooters aren't looking to pay alpha prices which is why ATI decided to OEM out to Japan to make their LPVO - the SAI6 which I quite enjoy to be honest.
But I think there is a market that has struggled with offerings from the manufacturers and that is a lightweight MPVO design - a short and lightweight 2-16x44/2.5-15x44ish FFP scope that is superb optically, wide FOV, adjustable parallax and locking turrets with a reticle that is usable and bright enough at 2x but also compelling at 16x could really shake things up.
Light weight hunting FFP, 3-18 or 4-20 ish, capped windage. NRL hunter and matches where you carry your stuff and baby strollers don't roll is a thing. Make it bombproof, but as light as the Mark5.
Some ZCO hats (Flex fit, I have a big ass head) and shirts to purchase would also be a great idea
I want me a shirtSome ZCO hats (Flex fit, I have a big ass head) and shirts to purchase would also be a great idea
Only if the 'zero' doesn't imply something I'm sensitive about...Are Boxer Briefs too much to ask?
Only if the 'zero' doesn't imply something I'm sensitive about...
The poll is adjusted, no pun intended...
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A lightweight version of the 420 and 527 would be great. I think the poll shouldn't necessarily say lightweight _hunting_ scope, as (at least in my case) many rifles are used for more than just hunting. The existing reticles are fine to hunt with for me; I just would prefer some weight reduction. If you really want to go after the hunting crowd, maybe a new reticle for them, too.
I was a little disappointed with the 16x top end mentioned on the other thread, as that's lower than I'd like even for my hunting rifles. That's why I'd be enamored with the 420/527 ranges, just with less weight.
Take 10oz+ out of them and I'll sell all my existing ZCO scopes and buy the new ones. Some form of locking turrets are an absolute must when field carried for me, but capped windage works fine if it helps with weight. I don't dial for wind, even at my 1760yd range.
I was a little disappointed with the 16x top end mentioned on the other thread, as that's lower than I'd like even for my hunting rifles. That's why I'd be enamored with the 420/527 ranges, just with less weight.
Take 10oz+ out of them and I'll sell all my existing ZCO scopes and buy the new ones. Some form of locking turrets are an absolute must when field carried for me, but capped windage works fine if it helps with weight. I don't dial for wind, even at my 1760yd range.
Lightweight hunting option closer to 20oz than 30. FFP, a reticle that doesn't need illumination, 30mm tube, doesn't need heaps of zoom ratio, 3-12x42 would be perfect.
Here's what I want , a LRF just like the OLD PLRF-15 but a little more range w/blue tooth & hard wire port , and a antimag tripod for it , and at a little bit better price than Vectronix , a spotter like the Zeiss 60 , with mag range 15-45 as well as a 20-60 option , with better reticle & maybe LRF .
Yeap a higher mag LR scope , BUT not just higher mag , higher everything , front lens dia ( 65-72mm ) show me a scope that has a front bigger than 56mm , like the old zeiss/heny 72mm , because there is NONE , have a stepped turret housing like a USO MST-100 , and also go bigger than34, maybe 36mm ? , actually scrub that forget the tube completely , go like the old German Heny for the G22 , save having rings all together , large dia turret and .05 mils click .
And a nice bino , like the old zeiss green armoured 8x30 w/reticle or east german 7x40 roof prism , but what ever bino they do , needs reticle and a focus on each tube .
Yeap a higher mag LR scope , BUT not just higher mag , higher everything , front lens dia ( 65-72mm ) show me a scope that has a front bigger than 56mm , like the old zeiss/heny 72mm , because there is NONE , have a stepped turret housing like a USO MST-100 , and also go bigger than34, maybe 36mm ? , actually scrub that forget the tube completely , go like the old German Heny for the G22 , save having rings all together , large dia turret and .05 mils click .
And a nice bino , like the old zeiss green armoured 8x30 w/reticle or east german 7x40 roof prism , but what ever bino they do , needs reticle and a focus on each tube .
They should just put a little tool in the cap like Kahles. The kahles set up is pretty sweet
Why you no like circles. Super easy to see 1 mil intersections and doesn’t obscure the target
#circlife
For those who don't know, ZCO carries on it's practice of quality when it comes to sourcing it's hats. Best ball cap I've ever had.Some ZCO hats (Flex fit, I have a big ass head) and shirts to purchase would also be a great idea
But noone has really cracked it perfectly
March? Reticles too thin, too much zoom range.
TT315 - too heavy
MK5/Mk6 34/35mm tubes
Vortex LHT should have been 3x bottom end
Etc
My old 3.5-10 M5 leupy Mk4 FFP is almost closer to an ideal solution than any of the new products. Have a March & Mk6 too but none are quite right.
If this is a request for a wish list I want a baller, lightweight 2.5-14x50 hunting optic. Same length as the 4-20. The low end will work with my thermal, the high end will let me shoot animals out to 800-1000. I don’t need 36 mils of elevation. 15 useable is fine. Put it in a single rev, non locking turret. Keep the BIG white numbers. They are great. MPCT3X. No dumbass standard MIL dot like the Tangent Theta hunter. I want the zero stop to stop at zero. I want illumination. I use it all the time. Once you use it, you will find yourself using it as soon as the light gets low at all. A ZCO like that would be awesome and I would buy it tomorrow.
There really needs to be a equivalent to the NXS 2.5-10x42 with FFP and locking turrets. At least that is what I am most interested in.
Oh I have one of the originals from 2020 Shot Show, unfortunately I also have a melon
Here’s their 42mm:
Schmidt Bender Klassik 3-12x42 30mm Reticle P3 .1mRad CW Riflescope 645-811-882-05-05A02
Schmidt Bender Hunting 3-12x42 30mm 645-811-882-05-05A02 | Only at EuroOptic.com!
or the same scope with their BDC turret, but it’s only 3.2mils of elevation:
Schmidt Bender 3-12x42 Precision Hunter P3 .1 mrad Black Riflescope 845-811-862-40-01A02
Schmidt Bender Precision Hunter Riflescope P3 Reticle 3-12x42 30mm .1mrad 845-811-862-40-01A02 | Only at EuroOptic.com!
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