That’s a lot of words for I don’t have the supporting evidence I’ve been touting about having in here
tacom structured barrel
- Thread starter Guan999
- Start date
That’s a lot of words for I don’t have the supporting evidence I’ve been touting about having in here
Whether harmonics are at play and whether the tacom barrel can actually control those harmonics in a positive way are two completely different things.
My disdain for people making deceptive or fraudulent statements about their product is not controlled by whether I own it or not.
This thread is all sorts of awesome.
One dude said that he enjoyed his barrel and found it accurate...and homeboy was like "The fuk you enjoyed your barrel...prove it!"
*****
Buy one, or don't. So far, I've seen a sample size of I think (1) owner. His seems to shoot okay-ish, and i have zero idea about his skill level.
Half the dudes here speculating and arguing like two retards sitting in a car trying to figure out who farted...
One dude said that he enjoyed his barrel and found it accurate...and homeboy was like "The fuk you enjoyed your barrel...prove it!"
*****
Buy one, or don't. So far, I've seen a sample size of I think (1) owner. His seems to shoot okay-ish, and i have zero idea about his skill level.
Half the dudes here speculating and arguing like two retards sitting in a car trying to figure out who farted...
I’ll happily send video and or whatever
But honestly to please folks who are just being dicks? Why bother
If anyone wants
Come uo
Shoot my riflle
Fk if I care
That was almost weird and strange enough to distracte me from the fact that @Makinchips208 completely lied about having data to support the tacom.
I’m not sure how data could be collected
Other than what?
List what you’d need to see
And or come to NH
And shoot my rifle
I am game to see what folks think
I got the barrel ( structured ) as a fun long term project
I’m not emotionally invested
Just enjoying the process
Sadly
Those who haven’t ever shot one
Love to say shit and slander
You?
Anyone?
With no experience shooting one
And or a succinct list
Can rest assured
Your ignored by me
Hence the watch
I loved the one about the structuring changing the recoil impulse it affected the harmonics so much.
The structured barrel def does not recoil like my other .308
I’d
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I literally went out to confirm zero in 25-30 mph winds a day ago in fuckin kansas, and I shot an 8 shot 1/2 MOA group with a 6BRA that has 2k rounds on it.
If you think wind is going to impact your group size at 100 you’re smoking fentanyl.
I for one am simply interested in seeing more. It will be hard though to convince more people to purchase with all of the wild claims unless they become validated by multiple people.
I will not be buying one anytime soon. I do somewhat agree with the skepticism, but to pull a pigeon (strut around and shit on everything) without having first-hand experience doesn't make one an expert. After that, it is just name-calling (and I'm fine with that for entertainment value).
I will not be buying one anytime soon. I do somewhat agree with the skepticism, but to pull a pigeon (strut around and shit on everything) without having first-hand experience doesn't make one an expert. After that, it is just name-calling (and I'm fine with that for entertainment value).
They’ve been out for 5+ years and have no traction and he still continues to make absurd claims after these spouts of people telling him he’s making wild unsupported claims.
At some point the lack of any meaningful data is the data.
There are a few people in the country with tunnels that do testing for the industry. He hasnt even attempted to pay one of them do any meaningful testing
Nice
I am a member at Alderbrook in Littleton. I have been considering buying one of these barrels for my AI, but I haven't pulled the trigger yet.
Alderbrook is fun
Come north
North Conway Nh area
pm me
And I’ll happily have you shoot mine. Steel is hanging ready to go at 200,300,500,600,640,1000. And we can back off the bench area to get 1300
I agree.
I for one would love to see a lot more data and user experiences being reported.
I have to give it to John, he has some pretty neat and innovative ideas that he brings to the market. I have a lot of respect for the company he's built.
The structured barrel is an interesting concept, I just have a hard time believing the juice is worth the squeeze in most applications. In my mind, I can see precision .22lr making a lot of sense for this concept. However perhaps not as much for something like a .300NM, in which you are going to burn the barrel out in ~1000-1200 rounds.
But I would love to hear some more actual reports and experiences with them.
Thank you!
I'll take you up on that when it gets a little warmer. Would love to see one in person.
Who's comparing steel vs carbon fiber? I'm pointing out that a cool outside doesn't mean the inside is cool. Read better, please.
I found the price on a Facebook post by Tacom. It was a couple of years old though, so it's possibly outdated. I haven't priced one, since I don't find them compelling.
You're pretty close on pricing. Tacom's barrel machining service starts at around $900-1000, plus the cost of the blank, and you'll still need to pay a gunsmith to fit, chamber, and thread the barrel to your action after Tacom has finished with it.
So it basically adds $900-$1600 to the cost of a blank and gunsmithing. Wth quality blanks costing $550+ (why would you pay $1000+ to structure a McGowan when you can spend little more and get a Bartlein or Kreiger) and gunsmithing services running about $500 a quality fit, chamber & muzzle threading by a reputable smith, you're pretty close to $2k (or more) into a structured barrel.
The price calculator on their site:
Structured Barrel
Instructions Select a Max Diameter followed by Caliber and Length. If a desired output is not shown, change the Max Diameter and repeat. The form logic-based, automatically updating per end-user selections, and features letter codes are for internal, order processing only. Agreement PLEASE...
tacomhq.com
You're pretty close on pricing. Tacom's barrel machining service starts at around $900-1000, plus the cost of the blank, and you'll still need to pay a gunsmith to fit, chamber, and thread the barrel to your action after Tacom has finished with it.
So it basically adds $900-$1600 to the cost of a blank and gunsmithing. Wth quality blanks costing $550+ (why would you pay $1000+ to structure a McGowan when you can spend little more and get a Bartlein or Kreiger) and gunsmithing services running about $500 a quality fit, chamber & muzzle threading by a reputable smith, you're pretty close to $2k (or more) into a structured barrel.
The price calculator on their site:
Structured Barrel
Instructions Select a Max Diameter followed by Caliber and Length. If a desired output is not shown, change the Max Diameter and repeat. The form logic-based, automatically updating per end-user selections, and features letter codes are for internal, order processing only. Agreement PLEASE...
Don’t forget the cryo treatment add on
All true but pricing is off a littleYou're pretty close on pricing. Tacom's barrel machining service starts at around $900-1000, plus the cost of the blank, and you'll still need to pay a gunsmith to fit, chamber, and thread the barrel to your action after Tacom has finished with it.
So it basically adds $900-$1600 to the cost of a blank and gunsmithing. Wth quality blanks costing $550+ (why would you pay $1000+ to structure a McGowan when you can spend little more and get a Bartlein or Kreiger) and gunsmithing services running about $500 a quality fit, chamber & muzzle threading by a reputable smith, you're pretty close to $2k (or more) into a structured barrel.
The price calculator on their site:
Structured Barrel
Instructions Select a Max Diameter followed by Caliber and Length. If a desired output is not shown, change the Max Diameter and repeat. The form logic-based, automatically updating per end-user selections, and features letter codes are for internal, order processing only. Agreement PLEASE...
My kreiger was 600$
Gunsmith was $650
And I had all things done at tacom Hq
Total was more
Like $1700 and
It was during covid
So in the end? It took almost two years as barrels alone took 6-8 months! For delivery
And tacomhq had a back log and I was in the q
Not regrets for me
The wait and cost was worth it all
It was an “ experiment “ and I was curious after building a few other rifles
I wanted to see how this worked
It was and is all worth it
Didn’t realize it was so unrealistic in pricing or timing to get one.
I guess it matters less that he makes bullshit claims since reasonable people will not pay 3-4x in cost and wait time to buy something that Allegedly last twice as long.
I guess it matters less that he makes bullshit claims since reasonable people will not pay 3-4x in cost and wait time to buy something that Allegedly last twice as long.
I know that most do not believe the claims. I am not positive either way, I have not seen the evidence. It really is not about how long it will last it is about the accuracy potential. I know many who invest huge sums in the endless search for the most accurate rifle they can get. It is about the longest hit or the smallest group or the most repeatable shot. That is what this is about, any claims of a longer lasting barrel are really secondary. I love the innovation, Almost understand the Engineering, I want more published evidence. Have I ordered one, No, do they intrigue me, most definitely! I looked into the cost a couple of years ago so the cost does not shock me that much.
I have zero reason to believe there is any accuracy increase. I have a mild amount of reason to believe that the heat sink function may keep chamber temp down and increase longevity. (although this may not be true at all)
That said, I would rather buy 3 finished Bartlien, Kreiger, or Burx to the one Tacom. John's fanboy said above he paid 600 for blank, 1700 for john's "work" and another 600 to chamber - for 3k im buying the multiple barrels
The accuracy comes from controlling the internal propagation of barrel vibrations. like I said I have not bought one and have instead bought 3-4 other barrels from Bartlein and CRB. My Engineering background says it theoretically possible, BUT, it has to be proved by controlled studies that are published and reviewed by the public. Like I said, I admire the innovation.
Incorrect
600 for the barrel
650 for the gunsmith
1200 for the all in treatment at tacom
This is the exact reason we don’t see more of themYou're pretty close on pricing. Tacom's barrel machining service starts at around $900-1000, plus the cost of the blank, and you'll still need to pay a gunsmith to fit, chamber, and thread the barrel to your action after Tacom has finished with it.
So it basically adds $900-$1600 to the cost of a blank and gunsmithing. Wth quality blanks costing $550+ (why would you pay $1000+ to structure a McGowan when you can spend little more and get a Bartlein or Kreiger) and gunsmithing services running about $500 a quality fit, chamber & muzzle threading by a reputable smith, you're pretty close to $2k (or more) into a structured barrel.
The price calculator on their site:
Structured Barrel
Instructions Select a Max Diameter followed by Caliber and Length. If a desired output is not shown, change the Max Diameter and repeat. The form logic-based, automatically updating per end-user selections, and features letter codes are for internal, order processing only. Agreement PLEASE...
They are more expensive and the wait time is too long for today’s market. If it was short lead time but more money..no big deal. Long lead time but cheap..no big deal. But both make it hard for some guys.
20 years ago when a smith took a sold year to true a 700 and put a barrel on this timeframe was ok.
Today when you can buy a prefit and be shooting .5 with factory ammo by the weekend..it makes it hard for guys to buy on a whim.
Personally I hope they work and he brings a new product/ tech to the firearms world. The industry has been stagnant for 20 years.
I am an LH AI shooter. This is me waiting for spare parts for an LH AI rifle.
These wait times are nothing
Guess you have not looked at the top barrel smith’s they are booked out away Craddock for example quotes 6-8 months for their Bartlein barrels.
What in the fudd??? How can you call the industry stagnant when you just talked about truing 700s over a year.
Today we have a dozen different custom actions that hold tolerances well enough to take prefits right off the shelf that far and exceed what 99.9% of gunsmiths could do with unlimited time and resources. We have Increased chamber pressure for brass, more reliable ignition, better bullets, more accurate scopes, better rings and lighter and crisper triggers than ever before.
We are in the golden age of shooting sports.
I would have to agree with this statement. Even LH shooters like myself have a huge list of possible off-the-shelf options. That was never the case 20 yeaers ago.
It’s been the same..
Wow machine shops finally are holding actions to tight specs.. AI was doing that in the 80’s. Thanks for not selling me trash
Smiths finally realized that you can chamber on a lathe 10 years ago..LRI was one of the first to really publicize it and he was shunned because it was considered witchcraft…more magic innovation
Rings, I guess decades old MK4 rings were and still are trash?
Same primer, primer compound, primer components for decades
More accurate scopes..because the 30 year old SB 5-25 or NF weren’t accurate..or what ever an accurate scope means. Your surely not talking about tracking
You are explaining evolution of product and market not innovation. They are very different.
The only advance has been a more mainstream look at higher pressure..which I kind of know something about from a previous life.
Lead time takes into account inventory position. 6/8 months because they don’t have a blank or because they are are hand kissing every one..huge difference.
I bet they have a criterion or rock you can get in 2 weeks
IDK if Id put Craddock in the "top barrel smiths" category but anyway... They make a good barrel and their lead times are WAY too long..... You could get a Bartlein or Krieger from White Oak much faster before they just sold..
As @brianf just said, nobody wants to wait that long for a barrel and in todays world, I could grab my own blank from various publicly available retailers and send it to a handful of smiths and have it back in a few weeks or less.
Im finally knocking out some backlog projects and will reach back out to Tacom and hopefully get something in the works to test.
All I want to see is more shooting from reputable folks who aren’t selling the barrels and more targets with better groups than X. Decide what you’re testing…and then use a comparison. Yeah, it may not be a perfect test.
But don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
Stop talking or writing walls of text. Baker may be an honest guy, but I was starting to tire of him by the end of the Cortina video, and that was the absolute first exposure to structured barrels I’ve ever had. Never read a thing on them. Never seen a vid. He’s too sales-y, too eager to prove his point.
However, tuner bros are the worst with talking/text walls/proving points.
Tuners and structured barrels proponents may indeed be right. But talking and walls of text are not moving the needle for you. Quit doing same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
The Cortina vid recently posted was an itty bitty tiny step in the right direction.
But don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
Stop talking or writing walls of text. Baker may be an honest guy, but I was starting to tire of him by the end of the Cortina video, and that was the absolute first exposure to structured barrels I’ve ever had. Never read a thing on them. Never seen a vid. He’s too sales-y, too eager to prove his point.
However, tuner bros are the worst with talking/text walls/proving points.
Tuners and structured barrels proponents may indeed be right. But talking and walls of text are not moving the needle for you. Quit doing same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
The Cortina vid recently posted was an itty bitty tiny step in the right direction.
The engineering of the structured barrel makes perfect sense.
I doubt it will bring much to the table for BR or F-class, as everyone will have near perfect load development and everything optimized for their specific barrel.
Would make a lot of sense for a hunting or tactical rifle, where you want concistency between different loads.
Logically, I think it would make a lot of sense to test it 1-1 against the best barrels in the game with just plain old factory ammo, that would easily show if the consistency claims hold, I would expect it to do so.
I doubt it will bring much to the table for BR or F-class, as everyone will have near perfect load development and everything optimized for their specific barrel.
Would make a lot of sense for a hunting or tactical rifle, where you want concistency between different loads.
Logically, I think it would make a lot of sense to test it 1-1 against the best barrels in the game with just plain old factory ammo, that would easily show if the consistency claims hold, I would expect it to do so.
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You know, as a colony varmint shooter that shoots 204 factory ammo (might also get a 22-250 barrel for my AI so it can join in), I might be in a group that would find a structured barrel advantageous.
Buuuuttt they don't offer to do their magic on a 20cal. Sigh.
- High-ish volume fire for a bolt gun (shooting all day, barrel gets too hot, have to let it cool off)
- Factory ammo
- $1500 isn't a big deal
Buuuuttt they don't offer to do their magic on a 20cal. Sigh.
What is the engineering that makes differnt loads at differnt velocities with differnt BC shoot to the same point of aim? Explain that voodoo to me.
It isnt voodoo. Its physics.
Its time of flight.
30 cal 220 grain is heavier, slower, and higher bc. Time of flight at 500 yards is about 5.5 seconds ish.
30 cal 168 grain is lighter, faster, and lower bc. Time of flight at 500 yards is about 5.7 seconds ish.
Drop between those two examples is less than half moa.
At 1000 there would be a different point of impact. Assume anything with a time of flight of 1 second or more will show a difference.
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If you think of the barrel as one that moves up and down in a sinusoidal wave pattern, projectiles traveling at different velocities will exit the barrel when it's at different positions in that sinusoidal wave. Some velocities will result in the projectile exiting when the barrel is pointing up, others while the barrel is pointing down, which results in a hypothetical vertical dispersion.
If you can "deaden" that barrel by removing, or at least mitigating those sinusoidal wave patterns, aka "harmonics", you reduce the vertical dispersion in projectiles traveling at different velocities.
At distance, you're still going to get vertical dispersion due to differing velocities - that's physics that isn't overcome by a structured barrel.
