tacom structured barrel

[jbell]

They make claims that defy logic and have no proof to support them.

the evidence supports they are making invalid claims. Because their barrels (which they claim are more accurate than any other barrel due to their structure) are not represented at all in precision sports after being out for 5+ years

Sure, but what I'm saying is where is the proof that their claims are not true? Maybe I'm missing something but I'm not seeing anyone who is shooting their barrels and saying they don't perform as advertised. From what I see is just people saying it can't happen / doesn't work that way without actual proof.

I would just like to see some real third party testing before I make any decisions about the viability of the concept.

 

[sneakypayload]

I have no skin in this game, I do not know John Baker, nor do I have anything to do with TACOM HQ. I have met him, looked at several of his builds, and briefly shot one of his barrels, but nothing to begin to form any opinion
at all. John and I think it was his son if I remember correctly were both very nice and humble, but they both rightfully so believe in their technology.

I am curious how many of the people here in this thread and the others that are shitting on both the technology and the people behind it have some real experience with John’s barrels. I keep coming back to these threads in hopes to hear from those people. I think everyone should have a voice and be heard but some of you guys are coming across not much different than those people who are so opposed to our rights as free men and women in this country (talking a lot of shit about a subject you have no real knowledge on).

I am not here to bash anyone, but some of these post makes it hard to have a real conversation about a technology that may or may not actually have merit. Maybe it’s 80% there and just needs a little refinement to be something of true value to our community, but with so much unjustified hate it may never get there. Or maybe this is a fruitless venture but to quote one of my favorite lines “a man is a fool not to push a suggestion as far as it will go”…

If we saw them at F-class, KO2m, even in the field at all I’d atleast like to see competitor feedback. There are plenty of people that would spend 2k on a barrel to get even a 10% edge in those sports.

 

[Maurygold]

Sure, but what I'm saying is where is the proof that their claims are not true? Maybe I'm missing something but I'm not seeing anyone who is shooting their barrels and saying they don't perform as advertised. From what I see is just people saying it can't happen / doesn't work that way without actual proof.

I would just like to see some real third party testing before I make any decisions about the viability of the concept.

Maybe you’re not familiar with shooting sports where guys cut grains of powder in half and weigh primers and sort bullets for any perceived gain.

If this had the tiniest bit of validity to shooting smaller groups you would see them winning or at least present in competitions. Regardless of cost

 

[jbell]

Maybe you’re not familiar with shooting sports where guys cut grains of powder in half and weigh primers and sort bullets for any perceived gain.

If this had the tiniest bit of validity to shooting smaller groups you would see them winning or at least present in competitions. Regardless of cost

I am very familiar with it. What I'm saying is have you seen any testing or reporting from people who have actually tried the barrels. I haven't yet. That's all I'm saying / asking. It's certainly not proven, but from what I have seen it's not disproven either.

 

[Maurygold]

I am very familiar with it. What I'm saying is have you seen any testing or reporting from people who have actually tried the barrels. I haven't yet. That's all I'm saying / asking. It's certainly not proven, but from what I have seen it's not disproven either.

When you cut across logic and norms it’s your burden to prove it. Not to sit back and say well you can’t not prove it.

That’s like attacking someone who knows the earth is round for not having proof. It’s flat earthers job to prove their point because we all know the earth is round. Lack of evidence is not evidence.

 

[jbell]

When you cut across logic and norms it’s your burden to prove it. Not to sit back and say well you can’t not prove it.

That’s like attacking someone who knows the earth is round for not having proof. It’s flat earthers job to prove their point because we all know the earth is round. Lack of evidence is not evidence.

Don't take it that I'm attacking you. I'm simply asking if anyone has actually tested it. I honestly don't care if these barrels are a success or failure. I am just interested in what they actually do or do not do.

I have been around and competed in many different precision shooting disciplines. I have noticed that the majority of shooters tend to follow whatever is currently winning, plus most are so superstitious that they are very slow to change or try anything new that it's unlikely that someone will show up to a big match with one of these barrels.

 

[The_Steward]

He proves you wrong every year he’s out there winning at national and international levels using a tuner. I’m not sure what better testing there could be.

Half the battle in f class is showing up with a gun that shoots tiny groups. He’s doing that with a tuner. He did it with a tuner for years before he sold one.

People who claim tuners don’t work are not well represented in national precision matches. I wonder why that is?

^ same is true for that tacom bullshit.

What about the people that beat him and don't use tuners?

Don't take it that I'm attacking you. I'm simply asking if anyone has actually tested it. I honestly don't care if these barrels are a success or failure. I am just interested in what they actually do or do not do.

I have been around and competed in many different precision shooting disciplines. I have noticed that the majority of shooters tend to follow whatever is currently winning, plus most are so superstitious that they are very slow to change or try anything new that it's unlikely that someone will show up to a big match with one of these barrels.

Honestly, because with the stuff they claim, if it worked, they'd just show people. Instead, they do a bunch of dumb things and try to obfuscate what really matters. In the Cortina video, they talk about how cool the barrel is... by measuring the temp of the outside of the barrel. "Oh you can touch it with your hands..." Yeah, you can do that with a carbon wrapped barrel too. It's because those tubes they drill insulate the bore, so heat can't propagate to the outside. That's not a good thing. They talk about how low the recoil is... and don't mention how much the gun weighs. Also, their barrels cost over $2k.

They aren't new. They've been around for years. People have discussed it for a while, but occasionally it pops up, and people think it's novel. It's not. They've been around for almost a decade. If they were that awesome, you'd already see competition shooters with them.

 

[moosemeat]

I have noticed that the majority of shooters tend to follow whatever is currently winning, plus most are so superstitious that they are very slow to change or try anything new that it's unlikely that someone will show up to a big match with one of these barrels.

Not my experience with F Class and bench. These shooters will try anything in a small regional match because they are all looking for any advantage. The only reason something wouldn't be seen in a big match is because it doesn't work, doesn't fit the rules or is prohibitedly expensive. These aren't prohibitedly expensive if they last like they say and shoot.

 

[Maurygold]

Don't take it that I'm attacking you. I'm simply asking if anyone has actually tested it. I honestly don't care if these barrels are a success or failure. I am just interested in what they actually do or do not do.

I have been around and competed in many different precision shooting disciplines. I have noticed that the majority of shooters tend to follow whatever is currently winning, plus most are so superstitious that they are very slow to change or try anything new that it's unlikely that someone will show up to a big match with one of these barrels.

I have a different experience. The clubs I’ve shot in would test and try everything to gain any advantage

 

[jbell]

What about the people that beat him and don't use tuners?


Honestly, because with the stuff they claim, if it worked, they'd just show people. Instead, they do a bunch of dumb things and try to obfuscate what really matters. In the Cortina video, they talk about how cool the barrel is... by measuring the temp of the outside of the barrel. "Oh you can touch it with your hands..." Yeah, you can do that with a carbon wrapped barrel too. It's because those tubes they drill insulate the bore, so heat can't propagate to the outside. That's not a good thing. They talk about how low the recoil is... and don't mention how much the gun weighs. Also, their barrels cost over $2k.

They aren't new. They've been around for years. People have discussed it for a while, but occasionally it pops up, and people think it's novel. It's not. They've been around for almost a decade. If they were that awesome, you'd already see competition shooters with them.

Not my experience with F Class and bench. These shooters will try anything in a small regional match because they are all looking for any advantage. The only reason something wouldn't be seen in a big match is because it doesn't work, doesn't fit the rules or is prohibitedly expensive. These aren't prohibitedly expensive if they last like they say and shoot.

I have a different experience. The clubs I’ve shot in would test and try everything to gain any advantage

Fair enough. Maybe times are changing, many years ago I used to see a lot of very superstitious shooters. The short range BR crowd was the worse.

It was probably the mid 20-teens when I met John and saw his stuff. I really haven't paid any attention to them until this thread cropped up.

 

[Zebulon]

I have no skin in this game, I do not know John Baker, nor do I have anything to do with TACOM HQ. I have met him, looked at several of his builds, and briefly shot one of his barrels, but nothing to begin to form any opinion
at all. John and I think it was his son if I remember correctly were both very nice and humble, but they both rightfully so believe in their technology.

I am curious how many of the people here in this thread and the others that are shitting on both the technology and the people behind it have some real experience with John’s barrels. I keep coming back to these threads in hopes to hear from those people. I think everyone should have a voice and be heard but some of you guys are coming across not much different than those people who are so opposed to our rights as free men and women in this country (talking a lot of shit about a subject you have no real knowledge on).

I am not here to bash anyone, but some of these post makes it hard to have a real conversation about a technology that may or may not actually have merit. Maybe it’s 80% there and just needs a little refinement to be something of true value to our community, but with so much unjustified hate it may never get there. Or maybe this is a fruitless venture but to quote one of my favorite lines “a man is a fool not to push a suggestion as far as it will go”…

I have a structured barrel

1:8 .308 24 inches

Super fun super accurate I’ve not once looked back and thought I wasted my money and or otherwise had one regret in my decision to purchase the barrel and have it chambered etc

Very happy here

 

[moosemeat]

What classifies as super accurate? What makes it more fun? Give us details man!

 

[sneakypayload]

I have a structured barrel

1:8 .308 24 inches

Super fun super accurate I’ve not once looked back and thought I wasted my money and or otherwise had one regret in my decision to purchase the barrel and have it chambered etc

Very happy here

This means absolutely nothing with any statistics to back it up.

 

[Csafisher]

I have a regular bartlein. It’s super duper fun and accurate.

 

[Zebulon]

This means absolutely nothing with any statistics to back it up.

I am not a scientist

So eat it

Just come to the range with me
I enjoy shouting it

Because it hits targets all day long. Regardless of ammo type and or weight bullet

 

[Zebulon]

I have a regular bartlein. It’s super duper fun and accurate.

I also have a bartlein barrel in .308& a shilen also in .308 but those are 1:10 and the structured barrel is a Kreiger
1:8
They are all great

But the Kreiger with structured barrel treatment does shoot better

 

[chase723]

I’ve shot a few. They are as advertised. One of the ELR guys I used to shoot with when I lived in Georgia had one in 460 Steyr, 33XC, 37XC, 300 Norma, and 6mm Creedmoor. By all accounts you pretty much don’t have to do much if any load development. Biggest advantage though is in sustained rate of fire. We shot 20-30 rounds of 460 Steyr back to back and POI didn’t change and you could grab the barrel with your bare hand. Barrel temps stay low. I’ve wanted one for awhile but early on, you had to have a blank 1.35”or greater, through COVID etc the wait time was too long for me, and the cost was somewhat prohibitive. However, now all of that has changed and so I’m thinking I’m going to order a couple for when my current barrels burn out.

 

[Zebulon]

I’ve shot a few. They are as advertised. One of the ELR guys I used to shoot with when I lived in Georgia had one in 460 Steyr, 33XC, 37XC, 300 Norma, and 6mm Creedmoor. By all accounts you pretty much don’t have to do much if any load development. Biggest advantage though is in sustained rate of fire. We shot 20-30 rounds of 460 Steyr back to back and POI didn’t change and you could grab the barrel with your bare hand. Barrel temps stay low. I’ve wanted one for awhile but early on, you had to have a blank 1.35”or greater, through COVID etc the wait time was too long for me, and the cost was somewhat prohibitive. However, now all of that has changed and so I’m thinking I’m going to order a couple for when my current barrels burn out.

Sustained fire is a huge advantage

I have just about had enough of the negative ( non owners ) slandering the structured barrel

Anyways
I ordered
Mine in the middle of covid

It was6-8 months just to get the barrel from Kreiger

Then another 9-10 for tacom HQ to do the structured barrel treatment

The wait was fun
Made me appreciate the set up even more now

And I love the thing

For the overall diameter of the barrel? There is very little weight issues

A comparison without the structured treatment would be very very heavy

 

[Makinchips208]

Did you haters miss the fact that in the 300 norma he shot factory 230grain, and a generic handloaded 168 grain with new brass.
Mixing both together the 9 shot group was still sub moa at 500 yards.

 

[Makinchips208]

In the Cortina video, they talk about how cool the barrel is... by measuring the temp of the outside of the barrel. "Oh you can touch it with your hands..." Yeah, you can do that with a carbon wrapped barrel too. It's because those tubes they drill insulate the bore, so heat can't propagate to the outside. That's not a good thing.

Apparently you dont understand heat transfer of steel vs carbon fiber.

Also, their barrels cost over $2k.

Under $2k. Have you priced one yourself?

 

[Makinchips208]

When you cut across logic and norms it’s your burden to prove it. Not to sit back and say well you can’t not prove it.

That’s like attacking someone who knows the earth is round for not having proof. It’s flat earthers job to prove their point because we all know the earth is round. Lack of evidence is not evidence.

Even though john shows it wherever he can, and the barrels consistently do the same exact thing, you keep saying he has to prove it. You refuse to believe the times john has proven it, and yet you cant prove it doesn't work.

Yeah its expensive. So don't buy one if the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

 

[Maurygold]

Even though john shows it wherever he can, and the barrels consistently do the same exact thing, you keep saying he has to prove it. You refuse to believe the times john has proven it, and yet you cant prove it doesn't work.

Yeah its expensive. So don't buy one if the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

He has never one time provided any kind of data to support that his barrel is inherently more accurate than the equivalent bartlein or krieger.

 

[Makinchips208]

He has never one time provided any kind of data to support that his barrel is inherently more accurate than the equivalent bartlein or krieger.

You illustrate my point in post 171.

 

[Maurygold]

You illustrate my point in post 171.

So neither you nor him have any data to support the claims. Just like we said. Thanks for confirming

 

[Makinchips208]

So neither you nor him have any data to support the claims. Just like we said. Thanks for confirming

I didn't say there isn't data or that i don't have data.
Quit being so assuming.

I could deliver it in person on a platter and you would refuse it, cause it isn't what you want to believe.

Do you own a structured barrel?
Have you used a structured barrel?

Edit to add: do you know john personally?

 

[Zebulon]

He has never one time provided any kind of data to support that his barrel is inherently more accurate than the equivalent bartlein or krieger.

Isn’t that the same for tuners? And yet people swear by them

 

[Maurygold]

Isn’t that the same for tuners? And yet people swear by them

Tuners are winning national and international precision competitions. That’s proof of success.

Cannot say that for Tacom barrels.

Owning one or knowing John doesn’t change the lack of data he chose to try and produce before making ridiculous claims that his barrels are inherently more accurate due to their stiffness.

There isn’t data. I’ve spoken with John directly on here and YouTube multiple times where he has failed to provide a shred of data. - you’re the one assuming things by thinking I’m assuming things. How ironic

 

[Zebulon]

Tuners are winning national and international precision competitions. That’s proof of success.

Cannot say that for Tacom barrels.

Owning one or knowing John doesn’t change the lack of data he chose to try and produce before making ridiculous claims that his barrels are inherently more accurate due to their stiffness.

There isn’t data. I’ve spoken with John directly on here and YouTube multiple times where he has failed to provide a shred of data. - you’re the one assuming things by thinking I’m assuming things. How ironic

Show me the proof it isn’t a placebo

 

[Zebulon]

 

[Zebulon]

Tuners are winning national and international precision competitions. That’s proof of success.

Cannot say that for Tacom barrels.

Owning one or knowing John doesn’t change the lack of data he chose to try and produce before making ridiculous claims that his barrels are inherently more accurate due to their stiffness.

There isn’t data. I’ve spoken with John directly on here and YouTube multiple times where he has failed to provide a shred of data. - you’re the one assuming things by thinking I’m assuming things. How ironic

Even Brian Litz couldn’t repeat shit with tuners and that was after 1000’s of rounds. Sooooooooooo

 

[Maurygold]

View attachment 8635619View attachment 8635620View attachment 8635621

Those are the most impressive one inch groups I’ve seen all day.

 

[Zebulon]

Those are the most impressive one inch groups I’ve seen all day.

It was very very windy. And I used many different weights of bullets and of powder dispensed handloads

Mostly varget powder

Anyways this is not the best group set

Just a random day

Sometime when I try and really work fundamentals. I send what this rifle can group at 1000, 600, amd 300 yards

 

[Maurygold]

It was very very windy. And I used many different weights of bullets and of powder dispensed handloads

Mostly varget powder

Anyways this is not the best group set

Just a random day

Sometime when I try and really work fundamentals. I send what this rifle can group at 1000, 600, amd 300 yards

Like most people on here defending John you really don’t understand what accuracy is - evidence: showing off 1” targets to me

 

[Makinchips208]

L

Like most people on here defending John you really don’t understand what accuracy is - evidence: showing off 1” targets to me

Lets see your multiple 5 shot groups, same point of aim, with bullets that are light for caliber and heavy for caliber. You haven't proven a single time here that you can do it.

 

[Zebulon]

Like most people on here defending John you really don’t understand what accuracy is - evidence: showing off 1” targets to me

Yes thank you

These groups are the largest of the shots I photos. And show me your groups with the weight of bullets in range from 168 -230 grain

It is typically barely noticeable at 100 yards where the holes are touching each other

Also
These were shot as fast as one could

So whatever

You can enjoy your day your way

I’ll do mine my way

 

[Zebulon]

L

Lets see your multiple 5 shot groups, same point of aim, with bullets that are light for caliber and heavy for caliber. You haven't proven a single time here that you can do it.

I’ll do that the next time I go to the range

I’ll idea tape it for you

And then you can kiss your own ass for being rude and Luddite like

 

[Makinchips208]

I’ll do that the next time I go to the range

I’ll idea tape it for you

And then you can kiss your own ass for being rude and Luddite like

Haha! I was talking to the marigold guy.

You posted the target and i believe it.

 

[Zebulon]

Haha! I was talking to the marigold guy.

You posted the target and i believe it.

Yeah I know sorry I CC’d the wrong thread


Anyways

The groups with a range of ammo is one thing

The best part for me

It is the recoil impulse and how easy it is to shoot

Whatever people say

I like the rifle

It is by far my favorite

Of all my rifles

And everyone who has shot it

Shoots it really well from beginners to very very experienced competitors

For every criticism and critique

Re: structured barrels

I’d reply

Show me the science on tuners

Show me outside of the comp world. Where they are even used? Hunting? Military?

Nadda

 

[Maurygold]

L

Lets see your multiple 5 shot groups, same point of aim, with bullets that are light for caliber and heavy for caliber. You haven't proven a single time here that you can do it.

That’s stupid and I won’t be wasting my time doing that for no reason. Nothing about a bunch of of 1” groups at 100 yard impresses me or anyone that understand precision

You guys can’t quit deflecting about the lack of any tacom data by citing tuners (which win national comps all the time).

 

[Maurygold]

I didn't say there isn't data or that i don't have data.
Quit being so assuming.

Still waiting on your data.

Like John and the rest of his confused flock you are using the lack of proof as proof which it is not.

 

[Zebulon]

Still waiting on your data.

Like John and the rest of his confused flock you are using the lack of proof as proof which it is not.

I’m waiting too

But in the mean time I could care less. I already have the barrel from Kreiger. And the treatment from TacomHQ. I’m very happy and I like the set up

As I recall

You can choose to buy one

Like a tuner

Like anything

With or without science to back up anytting

And mind you

Like science is a truth? It is always changing and evolving

Like the proof tuners even work beyond placebo

Maybe the structured barrel is allllllllll placebo hahahahha

Who cares

 

[Makinchips208]

You guys can’t quit deflecting about the lack of any tacom data by citing tuners (which win national comps all the time).

I never mentioned tuners a single time you Luddite.

Can you prove this claim about tuners winning nat comps “all the time”?

Still waiting on your data.

Like John and the rest of his confused flock you are using the lack of proof as proof which it is not.

John doesn't have a confused flock. And unlike you “talking” to john in youtube comments, i have actually had numerous conversations with john, as well as business interactions.
And, in spite of our relationship beginning in a way he had reason to never talk to me, he has been nothing less than gracious and helpful, he is quite an interesting person, and even generous.
And always 100% truthful.

 

[Maurygold]

I’m waiting too

But in the mean time I could care less. I already have the barrel from Kreiger. And the treatment from TacomHQ. I’m very happy and I like the set up

As I recall

You can choose to buy one

Like a tuner

Like anything

With or without science to back up anytting

And mind you

Like science is a truth? It is always changing and evolving

Like the proof tuners even work beyond placebo

Maybe the structured barrel is allllllllll placebo hahahahha

Who cares

Nah. Plenty of data behind shooting krieger, bartlein and brux straight tube barrels. There’s a reason that’s the majority of the winning combos in precision sports and not a tacom.

John claims they are more accurate and what did you provide to support that - a couple of 1” groups?

Also it’s odd that you space sentences out in seperate lines exactly like John does……. And that you use super weird multi bullet testing to somehow mean something. I’m pretty sure this is another burner account from John

Or you’re severely confused. Can’t tell

 

[Maurygold]

I never mentioned tuners a single time you Luddite.

Can you prove this claim about tuners winning nat comps “all the time”?



John doesn't have a confused flock. And unlike you “talking” to john in youtube comments, i have actually had numerous conversations with john, as well as business interactions.
And, in spite of our relationship beginning in a way he had reason to never talk to me, he has been nothing less than gracious and helpful, he is quite an interesting person, and even generous.
And always 100% truthful.

So……. No data like you eluded to having?

Because you 100% tried to call me out for saying there’s none.

 

[Makinchips208]

So……. No data like you eluded to having?

Ill share it in the youtube comments, then say you and i talked about it. Haha.

 

[Zebulon]

Nah. Plenty of data behind shooting krieger, bartlein and brux straight tube barrels. There’s a reason that’s the majority of the winning combos in precision sports and not a tacom.

John claims they are more accurate and what did you provide to support that - a couple of 1” groups?

Also it’s odd that you space sentences out in seperate lines exactly like John does……. And that you use super weird multi bullet testing to somehow mean something. I’m pretty sure this is another burner account from John

Or you’re severely confused. Can’t tell

The multi bullet. To
My understanding having shot this to you pseudo science

Shows the rigidity of the barrel and as I understand it

Has no “whip”

Anyways I am not fake and or John and or whatever crazy schizophrenic ideas you have conjured

Go to church and pray

I’ll do that for you as well

 

[Maurygold]

Ill share it in the youtube comments, then say you and i talked about it. Haha.

I’ve asked for it 5 times. How many excuses are you going to come up with instead of sharing it

 

[Maurygold]

The multi bullet. To
My understanding having shot this to you pseudo science

Shows the rigidity of the barrel and as I understand it

Has no “whip”

Anyways I am not fake and or John and or whatever crazy schizophrenic ideas you have conjured

Go to church and pray

I’ll do that for you as well

That’s the kind of understanding of ballistics I expect from John’s supporters. Thank you.

Good luck with the church stuff - I hope it saves you.

 

[Makinchips208]

I’ve asked for it 5 times. How many excuses are you going to come up with instead of sharing it

I dont see any evidence you are able to comprehend johns data, anyone else data, or anything scientific data for that matter.

Maybe if your favorite youtuber likes it you will be open to it.

Regardless, feel free to pm me and maybe we can actually talk. Maybe ill learn something, who knows.

 

[Zebulon]

That’s the kind of understanding of ballistics I expect from John’s supporters. Thank you.

Good luck with the church stuff - I hope it saves you.

Yeah thank you

It is going well so far. And also
Tuners are all about harmonic nodes and tuning the barrel whipAnd yet that seems to be accepted by the @elite of all holier than thou shooters “So hahah have fun dudeBe a skepticI could care less
You don’t have to do anything but you do seem to choose to hate on and slander things that you don’t own and or have any experience with

Sooooo

Pretty lame bruh