Maggie’s More bad news for the SLC cop that arrested the nurse.

[Dirty D]

I can't say that I feel bad for the guy now being the subject of a state AND federal investigation.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/fbi-probing-utah-cop-arrested-nurse-refusing-draw-184236282.html

 

[Maser]

Good! Maybe this will make him think next time not to throw a temper tantrum and bully someone when he doesn't get his way.

 

[ACK]

Questions:
Wasn't he following orders from a lieutenant?
I always believed there was"professional courtesy" between police and nurses and police and firemen, what happened?

 

[W54/XM-388]

Hopefully the FBI goes all the way with the investigation and makes some idiots scared to do that stuff again.

 

[2ndamendfan]

So. I have a close friend who has some insight into this. That actually knows both people involved. He does not work in that jurisdiction but does work with that jurisdiction. I finally had a chance to get his thoughts on the matter. He knows more than all of us. He does internal investigations on LEO

With that he had some good thoughts. The LEO is a 22 year vet he should have known better, he will loose his job and loose his LEO certification for at least a year.

With that the nurse is a known bitch. She is always confrontational. This does not make the LEO correct. It just gives you insight into both sides.

My dear friend put it in these words. And they fit. "He let her get under his skin".

this doesn't justify his actions. But it does reinforce my thoughts to my daughter. One fuck up will screw you for life. I have been assured by many that this officer is professional as they come, until this point.

Had the nurse said "fine fuck you, lets talk to a judge" it would have been just a video clip. But the fact she squealed like a fucking little girl and drug her feet is what made it dramatic enough for MSM to get. Hold of it.

I commend the nurse for protecting the patient especially since he was unconscious.

Once she started squealing i feel she was being dramatic. You may disagree but Liberal protesters make less noise being handcuffed.

 

[Slash0311]

Always two sides to every issue.

And "just following orders" doesn't always mean you won't have any consequences for your actions.

I also saw where that hospital is barring officers from patient care areas. That'll go well until a doper starts breaking stuff. Gotta work together.

 

[powdahound76]

I had several thousand great interactions with police during my yrs in the ED. One shitty one.
I filed a complaint. Older cop didnt want the paperwork of busting a guy who was a visitor for DUI when he was leaving the ED and let him go.
And I know a couple handfuls of drama queen ED nurses who always gotta be right. Kinda like my ex wife...
the cop screwed up pretty big. Bummer. Got a lot of cop friends. And I understand losing ones shit.
time for more tequila.
Goodnight gentlemen.

 

[Dirty D]

Questions:
Wasn't he following orders from a lieutenant?
I always believed there was"professional courtesy" between police and nurses and police and firemen, what happened?

"Just following orders" or "professional courtesy" DO NOT excuse an officer from abusing his authority while trying to conduct a warrantless search.

 

[user]

Hope the cum guzzler cop gets smoked.

 

[diverdon]

"Just following orders" or "professional courtesy" DO NOT excuse an officer from abusing his authority while trying to conduct a warrantless search.

I would not say that the orders from the lieutenant completely excuse the officer but it seems that the investigation should focus on the source of the orders then slowly work it's way down to the patrolman who carried them out.

 

[2ndamendfan]

Hope the cum guzzler cop gets smoked.

TOTALLY inappropriate. You really think he needs to be murdered over this. You should be so perfect in your life. As has been stated, she pushed his buttons for 30 minutes. That is not an excuse but more of a reason. Tease a pit bull for 30 minutes and see if you have any fingers left.

Again I give her a high five for knowing the law and the patients rights. I would hope if I am unconscious I would have someone on my side like her.

The officer should have stepped away there is no doubt. He let her get the better of him. Have we all not been in similar situations?

Someone told me once "it takes two to tango".

 

[...]

Questions:
Wasn't he following orders from a lieutenant?
I always believed there was"professional courtesy" between police and nurses and police and firemen, what happened?

"following orders" does not allow you to break the law.

a lot of people have been hurt by people "just following orders".....

 

[CMH]

So. I have a close friend who has some insight into this. That actually knows both people involved. He does not work in that jurisdiction but does work with that jurisdiction. I finally had a chance to get his thoughts on the matter. He knows more than all of us. He does internal investigations on LEO

With that he had some good thoughts. The LEO is a 22 year vet he should have known better, he will loose his job and loose his LEO certification for at least a year.

With that the nurse is a known bitch. She is always confrontational. This does not make the LEO correct. It just gives you insight into both sides.

My dear friend put it in these words. And they fit. "He let her get under his skin".

this doesn't justify his actions. But it does reinforce my thoughts to my daughter. One fuck up will screw you for life. I have been assured by many that this officer is professional as they come, until this point.

Had the nurse said "fine fuck you, lets talk to a judge" it would have been just a video clip. But the fact she squealed like a fucking little girl and drug her feet is what made it dramatic enough for MSM to get. Hold of it.

I commend the nurse for protecting the patient especially since he was unconscious.

Once she started squealing i feel she was being dramatic. You may disagree but Liberal protesters make less noise being handcuffed.

I am not sure if it is correct, but I have read here and elsewhere an Lt. gave the orders to proceed with this. That seems contradictory to the information of one person getting under another's skin. Did she really trigger both a 22 year veteran and an Lt. into doing something illegal, while they knew they were being video'd? I think there is more to this story and it lies in the question of WHY they were trying to pursue this testing. I have heard little on that front other than the person trying to be tested was a victim, and I believe I saw somewhere where they were also LEO. That smells like a personal vendetta to me and thus a source of the emotional response.

Not attempting to refute the information from your man on the ground, just saying I'm not sure that explanation fits what I have read in the media (which I recognize may be partial or full BS).

 

[Dirty D]

Hope the cum guzzler cop gets smoked.

You are a shithead.

 

[2ndamendfan]

I am not sure if it is correct, but I have read here and elsewhere an Lt. gave the orders to proceed with this. That seems contradictory to the information of one person getting under another's skin. Did she really trigger both a 22 year veteran and an Lt. into doing something illegal, while they knew they were being video'd? I think there is more to this story and it lies in the question of WHY they were trying to pursue this testing. I have heard little on that front other than the person trying to be tested was a victim, and I believe I saw somewhere where they were also LEO. That smells like a personal vendetta to me and thus a source of the emotional response.

Not attempting to refute the information from your man on the ground, just saying I'm not sure that explanation fits what I have read in the media (which I recognize may be partial or full BS).

The Lt was at the station not at the hospital. According to my LEO friend when there is a fatality crash, it is normal procedure to ASK for blood from every victim just to clear everyone's name in the matter. BUT not necessarily in a officer involved police pursuit. It was obvious that the driver committed suicide by going across the median and straight into the semi truck with the victim in it. Everyone involved in the chase saw and knew what happened.

The LT at the station and the officer at the hospital were not involved in the chase. The following is pure speculation but I imagine it when something like this.

LT "hey joe, you up by the hospital?"

Joe " yea why?"

LT "well that high speed chase ended in a death, the other victim was flown to that hospital" " stop by and get a blood sample, like we always do in these cases" "get this wrapped up, lots of paper work to do on this one"

joe " ok"

something like that. Completely innocent to start. Not everything is nefarious just because you think it should be.

The officer did not walk in, ask, be told no and detained her in 60 sec. This was a 30-45 min exchange. The media is only showing the "juicy" part. The officer fucked up, even my friend who again is LEO internal investigator admits. It is expected that LEO keep their cool and he did not. But again, her squealing like a 3rd grader and yelling " I did nothing wrong" makes for a good story. While she was correct in this case, how many times do you think officers hear that a day..

 

[CypressJeff]

The Lt was at the station not at the hospital. According to my LEO friend when there is a fatality crash, it is normal procedure to ASK for blood from every victim just to clear everyone's name in the matter. BUT not necessarily in a officer involved police pursuit. It was obvious that the driver committed suicide by going across the median and straight into the semi truck with the victim in it. Everyone involved in the chase saw and knew what happened.

The LT at the station and the officer at the hospital were not involved in the chase. The following is pure speculation but I imagine it when something like this.

LT "hey joe, you up by the hospital?"

Joe " yea why?"

LT "well that high speed chase ended in a death, the other victim was flown to that hospital" " stop by and get a blood sample, like we always do in these cases" "get this wrapped up, lots of paper work to do on this one"

joe " ok"

something like that. Completely innocent to start. Not everything is nefarious just because you think it should be.

The officer did not walk in, ask, be told no and detained her in 60 sec. This was a 30-45 min exchange. The media is only showing the "juicy" part. The officer fucked up, even my friend who again is LEO internal investigator admits. It is expected that LEO keep their cool and he did not. But again, her squealing like a 3rd grader and yelling " I did nothing wrong" makes for a good story. While she was correct in this case, how many times do you think officers hear that a day..

Would you not expect the nurse to get upset, squeal and say "I did nothing wrong" when she was being unlawfully detained for protecting a patient? An arrest would ruin her life for a while, possibly for a long time. Not only was she protecting her patient but she is responsible for her Nursing License as well.....

 

[2ndamendfan]

An arrest is nothing. A conviction is .

She knew she had done nothing wrong. She knew the hospital had her side. Rather than squealing and good response would been. "Fine asshole lets go talk to a judge."

Of cousre i have been through the process a couple times and know it is nothing. But when the average person hears "your under arrest". I am pretty sure the first thought that goes through most people's head is "bubba is going to fuck me in the ass".

Again the officer lost his cool and will pay dearly for it.

She lost her cool also.

Having been in similar situations one person must remain calm. Violence be gets violence. Screaming and yelling just gets more of the same.

I will say this and i mean no disrespect for slash, 1j04 or anyone other LEO. In MY experience (which in the past was quite extensive) many officers have a hard time turning "it" off once it has been turned on. This is not a bad thing 99% of the time, as it is needed. I think they have a tough job. 99% of the time they are dealing with the lowest people in our society. (Just ask 1j04 about it some time).

I have have had 2 incidents with LEO that had i not been the calm one it would have ended badly. The last one i probably would be dead as she had her hand on her gun while loosing her shit just a little bit. I have had many many incidents with LEO that went smooth as glass.

The total lack of respect for our public servants is disgusting to me. My wife is a teacher and the shit she gets from students and parents is mind boggling.

 

[...]

An arrest is nothing. A conviction is .

She knew she had done nothing wrong. She knew the hospital had her side. Rather than squealing and good response would been. "Fine asshole lets go talk to a judge."

Of cousre i have been through the process a couple times and know it is nothing. But when the average person hears "your under arrest". I am pretty sure the first thought that goes through most people's head is "bubba is going to fuck me in the ass".

Again the officer lost his cool and will pay dearly for it.

She lost her cool also.

yes, it probably would have been......but when someone is getting arrested, they probably arent thinking too cooly.....to expect someone not to be upset and emotional when being arrested, especially unjustly, it rather unreasonable.

 

[2ndamendfan]

yes, it probably would have been......but when someone is getting arrested, they probably arent thinking too cooly.....to expect someone not to be upset and emotional when being arrested, especially unjustly, it rather unreasonable.

Well you are not wrong. She was being confrontational before that. Was she right damn straight she was. Like winning the lottery. That officer had 22 years under his belt, i would bet his "bluff" had been called thousands of times and until now he had been on top. This time he lost.

With that from my experience i would tell anyone you catch more flies with honey than with vinger. My first arrest (a long time ago in a galaxy far far away) i was so nice she didn't "pat me down" when i got to the station the commander (who i knew) checked me out and found the 3 inch knife in my pocket ( i was freaked the fuck out, i forgot, i thought bubba was going to fuck me in the ass). While in the "holding cell" I could hear him chew her ass for the next 90 minutes until my dad got there to start chewing my ass.

Have you ever noticed the real crazy ones go down quiet. They are thinking and planning their next move.

If you are screaming and fighting you are a lot more likely to get a cuncusion getting in the car if you know what i mean.

 

[ACK]

My comment was misinterpreted, what I implied when I said following orders is that nowhere do we see his superior (lieutenant) been reprimanded or in the news.
"Professional courtesy" when I was younger a law enforcement officer would seldom issue a traffic citation to a nurse or a fireman. Times have changed.

Common courtesy is now uncommon.

 

[2ndamendfan]

My comment was misinterpreted, what I implied when I said following orders is that nowhere do we see his superior (lieutenant) been reprimanded or in the news.
"Professional courtesy" when I was younger a law enforcement officer would seldom issue a traffic citation to a nurse or a fireman. Times have changed.

Common courtesy is now uncommon.

Oh the LT is in big trouble also. it has been in the local news. The news has focused on the officer in the video more because, well it makes good news.

 

[Mike_Honcho]

I have question: (understand, I do not know if the request for a tox screen was legal / warranted in the first place - but let's assume it was for a second)

- Wouldn't the split the baby approach (that would still be legal) be to do a Tox Screen, but withhold the findings until the court order materialized? Again, assuming it was legal search, it sure would have avoided a lot of BS.

 

[...]

I have question: (understand, I do not know if the request for a tox screen was legal / warranted in the first place - but let's assume it was for a second)

- Wouldn't the split the baby approach (that would still be legal) be to do a Tox Screen, but withhold the findings until the court order materialized? Again, assuming it was legal search, it sure would have avoided a lot of BS.

im pretty sure the very act of drawing the blood without a warrant or consent would be considered battery

 

[2ndamendfan]

Just for info. My LEO friend told me warrants can be obtained in 15-30 mins in most cases. Again he should have known better. He got in a tussle and should have stepped away.

We should all learn a lesson from this.

 

[Mike_Honcho]

Ahh...gotcha both.

 

[Slash0311]

Every state is different on laws. For example here in Indiana, there is a 3 hour window from the time if the crash to the time a test is administratored. I know in my area, it normally takes 1-1 1/2 hours to get a warrant signed by a judge. Most of my experience is that we just subpoena the medical records for court. Not the best way but easier than getting a warrant signed.

I can honestly say I'm usually pretty easy going and it takes a lot to have my buttons pushed But I'll admitted there have been days that a mouse fart can make me go medieval. We all have good and bad days. This is a sad case. We're all on the same team and BOTH of these two didn't act like it.

 

[7.62willdo]

" I was just following orders"
it didn't work at Nuremberg and it didn't work at Mai lai and it ain't working here........

 

[Milo 2.5]

I have question: (understand, I do not know if the request for a tox screen was legal / warranted in the first place - but let's assume it was for a second)

The victim was injured as a result of a high speed chase, the party being pursued died as a result of hitting this victim. Any trace of alcohol or drugs on this victim could exonerate LE involved in the pursuit. May not be warranted, but law, and in their best interest to look into this avenue.

 

[2ndamendfan]

Every state is different on laws. For example here in Indiana, there is a 3 hour window from the time if the crash to the time a test is administratored. I know in my area, it normally takes 1-1 1/2 hours to get a warrant signed by a judge. Most of my experience is that we just subpoena the medical records for court. Not the best way but easier than getting a warrant signed.

I can honestly say I'm usually pretty easy going and it takes a lot to have my buttons pushed But I'll admitted there have been days that a mouse fart can make me go medieval. We all have good and bad days. This is a sad case. We're all on the same team and BOTH of these two didn't act like it.

1 - 1 1/2 hours. Are your warrants done online? just asking. I was told ours here are on line with a form that can normally be filled out in 5 minutes or so and then hit send. He didn't say if it went to a judge dedicated to warrants for that day or if the judge was randomly selected or if it went into a "pool" and the next available judge did it. He said 15 mins was ultra fast with 30 being the norm, 45 being on the long side.

Slash that 2nd part of your post is what I have been trying to get through to people with all my posts here. We can all have bad days. Does he deserve to be nailed to a cross for it? I don't think so. It is sad that society is so quick to flush people down the toilet. Like a large group of people actually enjoy someone failing. It is very sad, one fuck up (and this goes for pretty much everyone) and your life can be ruined no matter how much good you have done before or after.

Here in Utah we had an active shooter a few years back in SLC an off duty officer from Ogden engaged the shooter until more officers arrived. He was made a hero, until a little bit later when a woman recognized him as an officer she had sex with (in a patrol car I believe). It was a couple years prior and she hadn't done anything about until she saw his face in the news. She wanted everyone to know he wasn't "squeaky clean". With in a couple weeks he lost his job and had to move out of state. Not saying what he did was right, but everyone sure forgot he saved a lot of lives just a few weeks prior to this information coming forth.

The only time I am real critical of LEO is when bullets fly. Just like to know they are flying for the right reasons. Otherwise I give almost everyone some leeway, since we are all human.

 

[Garvey]

Questions:
Wasn't he following orders from a lieutenant?
I always believed there was"professional courtesy" between police and nurses and police and firemen, what happened?

It is there, every day. I've been in the Fire Service for 19 years. I've patched up law enforcement, cut them out of their cars, and got in the fight to help them subdue the drunk or drug head. Also, they have let me go with a warning many, many times.

But HIPAA laws are Federal, and she was following them. She did exactly the right thing, and I would (as a Paramedic) would have done exactly the same. Any law enforcement officer, doctor, or Chief is welcome to challenge me on it. We can go to court, and I will win, because I was following the law, and taking proper care of my patient, exacly what she did.

But my reaction to him would have been much more calm. This is Chess, is ain't checkers.

 

[mgd45]

22 year police officer here down in Georgia.......Here is the deal....even if the officer decided that they had PC to get the nurse to secure blood from the injured person without a warrant, he doesn't have any legal authority over the nurse to force her to do anything. We can request and ask them to help us, but we have no legal authority to direct them to do anything. When do we get that authority...? When we have a legal warrant issued by a Judge that commands them to comply. That's all.....he let his emotions override his brains.

 

[Garvey]

^^Exactly right.

I'll bend over backwards to help law enforcement. And my FD has a great working relationship with our PD. But our PD does not expect us to break any laws for them, even if it inconveniences them.

He looked like a spoiled child that did not get his way, not a 22 year veteran.

 

[Slash0311]

1 - 1 1/2 hours. Are your warrants done online? just asking. I was told ours here are on line with a form that can normally be filled out in 5 minutes or so and then hit send. He didn't say if it went to a judge dedicated to warrants for that day or if the judge was randomly selected or if it went into a "pool" and the next available judge did it. He said 15 mins was ultra fast with 30 being the norm, 45 being on the long side.

Slash that 2nd part of your post is what I have been trying to get through to people with all my posts here. We can all have bad days. Does he deserve to be nailed to a cross for it? I don't think so. It is sad that society is so quick to flush people down the toilet. Like a large group of people actually enjoy someone failing. It is very sad, one fuck up (and this goes for pretty much everyone) and your life can be ruined no matter how much good you have done before or after.

Here in Utah we had an active shooter a few years back in SLC an off duty officer from Ogden engaged the shooter until more officers arrived. He was made a hero, until a little bit later when a woman recognized him as an officer she had sex with (in a patrol car I believe). It was a couple years prior and she hadn't done anything about until she saw his face in the news. She wanted everyone to know he wasn't "squeaky clean". With in a couple weeks he lost his job and had to move out of state. Not saying what he did was right, but everyone sure forgot he saved a lot of lives just a few weeks prior to this information coming forth.

The only time I am real critical of LEO is when bullets fly. Just like to know they are flying for the right reasons. Otherwise I give almost everyone some leeway, since we are all human.

the hour and half is long. But our department is weird. Most road/patrol guys can't write what the judge and prosecutor require on them even with boilerplate stuff and filling in blanks. Hell, just for a DUI, we have to hand write a form of all the probable cause and field tests in addition to writing a report with the same exact info. Stone age shit.

 

[shootist2004]

I always find it funny when I see people on you tube resisting arrest.............
Do they think if you resist hard enough the officer will change his mind and let you go?
Police officers have the power of arrest given to them by the Governor of the state.
If I was being arrested and I knew I did nothing wrong..........
I would be thinking the quicker we get this process over with the quicker my lawyer can get me some cash!

 

[2ndamendfan]

I always find it funny when I see people on you tube resisting arrest.............
Do they think if you resist hard enough the officer will change his mind and let you go?
Police officers have the power of arrest given to them by the Governor of the state.
If I was being arrested and I knew I did nothing wrong..........
I would be thinking the quicker we get this process over with the quicker my lawyer can get me some cash!

RIGHT!! Handcuffs are a lot looser also. Path of least resistance. If you believe we are in a "round up the jews" situation then yea fight like a fucker, you have nothing to loose. But if you believe in our system then it is less painful if you go with the flow. At least to the point when you ask for your lawyer.

 

[hankpac]

I posted previously in another thread on this same subject. 30 years of Emergency Medicine, Worked very closely with Law Enforcement agencies. If we needed help in the ER we knew every cop in town would be there, ready to deal. And they knew if any one of them came in face up bleeding all over the place we would bend the very laws of nature to save their lives.
This guy put a severe crimp on that understanding, in SLC at least.
Now, some education: A "Tox Screen" is done with urine. It is a dip test, It tests for presence only, and in some instances (marijuana) it is sensitive to something like 6-8 weeks after the exposure. Tells NOTHING about when used or how much is in blood stream. Problems with chain of custody as well, since it is just a urine jar, either given by the patient or drawn from a foley catheter and sent to the lab, usually taken by the teenager who is doing blood draws, and lab running. Blood is strictly for ETOH, blood alcohol. There are some other toxicologies dine by gas chromatograph, however again, this is usually done with a strict chain of custody requirement, and not available in any old ER. A Level 1 trauma center might have that and some cold hard policies to guide everyone on jut exactly how to arrange a collection. Both LEO and Medical are trained for that.
This instance was out of control.
Another thing about the ER: A Nurse who is known as a "Known Bitch" usually pans out as a person who knows EXACTLY how things are supposed to be run. That's the Nurse I want on the other side of the gurney, during a Trauma Code, or Cardiac Code, and also the Nurse I want who is taking care of two patients while I'm taking care of two patients in a mass casualty situation. She's also the one who is taking those young Docs in hand when they are Residents and med students, and is the one who is an example for the young Nursing students. SHE (Or he) is the one who is going to save your crusty hide, should you come in there with your guts hanging on the floor, BP bottomed out, half a tank low on blood. Don't doubt that for a minute.
She has one policy in mind that happens to be the same as any Policeman: to get home in one piece after the shift. No one hurt of dead, including yourself.
The cop in question was also a Paramedic. He should have known better.

 

[2ndamendfan]

This instance was out of control.
Another thing about the ER: A Nurse who is known as a "Known Bitch" usually pans out as a person who knows EXACTLY how things are supposed to be run. That's the Nurse I want on the other side of the gurney, during a Trauma Code, or Cardiac Code, and also the Nurse I want who is taking care of two patients while I'm taking care of two patients in a mass casualty situation. She's also the one who is taking those young Docs in hand when they are Residents and med students, and is the one who is an example for the young Nursing students. SHE (Or he) is the one who is going to save your crusty hide, should you come in there with your guts hanging on the floor, BP bottomed out, half a tank low on blood. Don't doubt that for a minute.
She has one policy in mind that happens to be the same as any Policeman: to get home in one piece after the shift. No one hurt of dead, including yourself.
The cop in question was also a Paramedic. He should have known better.

I agree with that, also as I have stated I would want her on my side also. The "bitch" part was not ment as a disparaging remark. Many including my wife consider me and asshole, that is generally because I knew and know what I am doing better than 99% of others in my field of expertise. So much so that my friends and ex-coworkers had a name for it.

 

[WATERWALKER]

This guy got caught up in a dick measuring contest. This guy engaged in mental gymnastics & was beat by a troll. He just wasn't smart enough to see the situation for what it was.

 

[Supersubes]

the hour and half is long. But our department is weird. Most road/patrol guys can't write what the judge and prosecutor require on them even with boilerplate stuff and filling in blanks. Hell, just for a DUI, we have to hand write a form of all the probable cause and field tests in addition to writing a report with the same exact info. Stone age shit.

Exactly the same here in california.

 

[sandwarrior]

An interesting thought, if this guy goes to work for a trucking company that 'as a condition of employment' using his CDL has already consented to having blood tested in the case of an incident ( per NTSB rules).

In aviation we have 'pre-consent' conditions of employment', but I've never seen it used on an unconscious person.

 

[308pirate]

Well you are not wrong. She was being confrontational before that. Was she right damn straight she was. Like winning the lottery. That officer had 22 years under his belt, i would bet his "bluff" had been called thousands of times and until now he had been on top. This time he lost.

With that from my experience i would tell anyone you catch more flies with honey than with vinger. My first arrest (a long time ago in a galaxy far far away) i was so nice she didn't "pat me down" when i got to the station the commander (who i knew) checked me out and found the 3 inch knife in my pocket ( i was freaked the fuck out, i forgot, i thought bubba was going to fuck me in the ass). While in the "holding cell" I could hear him chew her ass for the next 90 minutes until my dad got there to start chewing my ass.

Have you ever noticed the real crazy ones go down quiet. They are thinking and planning their next move.

If you are screaming and fighting you are a lot more likely to get a cuncusion getting in the car if you know what i mean.

You continue making excuses for asshole cops. You should stop

 

[sandwarrior]

I don't know that anyone is going to answer my question from the previous page

 

[2ndamendfan]

You continue making excuses for asshole cops. You should stop

Took me a bit to figure out how to respond. Or if I even should. This post is not entirely directed 308pirate. The "you" in the post is for anyone reading this post.

I am not sure you have read all my posts on the matter. I have not defended his actions. And have a said many times he was wrong.

When there is a car wreck, train wreck, industrial accident an investigatuon is always done as to "why" and "what". But for some reason when there is a incident like this (be it a life wreck). Everyone just wants to shit on people.

We have become a rabid pack of dogs looking for our next attack. I defend the LEO in this case and everyone else for beinging human and "having a bad day".

While this is no excuse for this LEOs actions they are reasons. Reasons are not excuses.

If you get a nail in your tire and a flat tire after that. Your reason for being late to work is a flat tire, it is not an excuse. They are different.

If you know the reasons something happened it is possible to prevent at least to some degree the chances of it happening again.

I am going to assume you have been involved in a road rage incident. Lets say your cut off in traffic, you show your appreciation by giving the other driver the "bird". If you could stop time and ask each person who started it they would point the finger at each other. The first driver would say his traffic move was legal and he meant no harm only to get over for his traffic needs. So he would perceive you as the instigator. You in the other hand would see it opposite for sure.

But since we can't stop time we end up with one driver pulling a gun on another driver in an ever escalating emotional interaction.

The point is, that in this case we had the same thing. Both involved were emotionally charged. Personally I have never been able to "reason" with anyone who is in such a state of mind.

With all my posts added up, I am looking for the reasons the situation got so out of hand. And again I state the nurses reaction is what makes this news worthy.

Maybe there needs to be some training or such. Does the officer need to be reprimanded yea, fired I am not sure. But he probably will be because of the attention this has gotten.

If you are sitting there on your high horse in your glass castle with dinner cooking in a black pot and black kettle, thinking "good fuck that guy". Well I wish you the best. You have either never had a bad day being human. Or you like to judge but not be judged.

The problem with jumping on this guy and kicking him to the curb is the consequences of the actions. Call it the butterfly effect. Every incident puts a noose around the neck of a group. Some nooses are good. Some are to tight.

A truck driver having to keep a "log book" is a noose or a leash. All rules, laws and regulations are a leash of some sort.

If the noose is to tight it hinders more than it helps. In the case of a truck driver it might mean extra time for you to get your delivery. But in the case of LEO it hinders them on doing their job. Each noose should be evaluted for unintended consequences. a very good example of that is Boston. Look at the crime rate in Boston since the Freddie Gray incident. Boston might have a more "obedient" police force now but obviously a less effective one also.

I cut them some slack because they are basicly garbage collectors (no offense intended towards LEO or garbage collectors). LEO deal with the garbage of our society, the people i dont want to deal with. The situations such as child abuse and child rape. That I dont want to deal with. Situations that make me cringe just reading the article in the news that leaves a lot of shit out.

For example the guy that killed his girl friend's son and buried (about 6 inches deep is all) the body in the mountains. The news left out that he covered the body in dog food, hoping coyotes would dismember/eat the body fast.

I told my friend not to tell me shit anymore. I am not a pussy, quite the opposite. I am seriously afraid i could got on a vigilante lynching if i know to much.

I cut them some slack, because of the job I NEED them to do.

Not to get in to my personal life to much but i have had way more involvement with LEO in my past than most. Arrested twice (hand cuffs will put shit into focus). In all those there are 4 incidents I remember like they just happened. At the time i was thinking what an asshole but i kept my cool and everything turned out.

When i reflect back even the next day (it didn't take 30 years to figure this out). One LEO was being an asshole on purpose to try and get me to pull my head out of my ass.

Most incidents were 28+ years ago and luckily i did pull m head out of my ass.

But due to my profession i do have on occasion to interact with LEO.

A couple years ago I was pulled over and subsequently accused of being a car thief. The officer was about 5'6" 120 lbs female. I am 6'1" 300lbs (fuck I need a diet, and less nom, nom, nom thread). When she went from "unregistered vehicle " (not mine I am just the mechanic trying to get it fixed for registration) to "stolen car" in about 2 secs, she put her hand on her gun and unsnapped the retention strap. I kept my fucking hands on the wheel and did not move. Had I been offended of being accused of something I did not do I would have probably been shot.

She was obviously on edge, given my size, and our location was somewhat isolated. In her mind I was guilty as fuck and any movement would have not been good for me. She i think was pretty green still and not sure she had been in such a situation.

I get pulled over 10-12 times a year due to customers cars having a bad tail light or something. I always tell the LEO that it is not my car and that I am driving it as part of my job, I tell them that I don't feel comfortable digging through my customers vehicle looking for insurance and registration, but if they insist, I will just that ANYTHING they see is not mine and if any drugs or weapons appear I will be just as shocked as they are. 99% of the time they say "have a good day, tell the owner to get that fixed". She took my refusal to produce documents and not knowing the vehicle as it being stolen. No shit 2 sec after i say my speech, she says " is this vehicle stolen?" and unlaches her holster.

I could go on, but will just say this. Reflect back on your life no matter how short or long it has been. When emotions have been brought to the surface how well have you been able to make reasonable/logical decisions. You would not be human if you said you excelled in such endeavours.

 

[2ndamendfan]

I don't know that anyone is going to answer my question from the previous page

If you go up in the first page, this was brought up earlier. I am not sure why that did not come into affect. At the time I am not sure either one involved knew he was a "truck driver".

 

[308pirate]

I read your essay. And it makes no difference to me.

Asshole cop could not stand being "shown up" in public by someone who knew her shit cold. Asshole cop decided to follow stupid orders and arrest her anyway. Nurse decided to fuck him over by making a scene. I don't know if I would have used her tactics but I would have found a way to (legally) fuck his life up as hard as I could as payback for an unlawful arrest.

Agents of the state have been given a very large level of authority and latitude to do their jobs. By the same token, the restraints that are placed on them are VITAL to preserving the rights of the citizenry and are NOT FUCKING OPTIONAL.

Arresting a citizen, when there is no lawful basis for the arrest, should carry a very heavy penalty.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

I defend the LEO in this case and everyone else for beinging human and "having a bad day".

From what I seen of his demeanor an body language, my money says his personnel file will say there is a historical pattern, of being badge heavy, when confronted with facts. A good lawyer will own him an the department someday.

 

[2ndamendfan]

From what I seen of his demeanor an body language, my money says his personnel file will say there is a historical pattern, of being badge heavy, when confronted with facts. A good lawyer will own him an the department someday.

That could be true, but you are judging by one incident. If he has a history, then screw him and especially the department. You can blame him some in such case but the department would be much more at fault for "raising such a child".

I would be shocked at this point if he had a history. Just from the view point that the Mayor seems very very happy to nail this guy and the sheriff's office in general to a cross. She wants to appease the public at all costs. Typical liberal Democrat that looks down at LEO as evil and part of the problem more than part of the solution. Watching her on this and other matters I truly believe if he had a history his file would have been leaked to the news.

 

[Dirty D]

I'm amazed at how many of you excuse the cop on the basis that he was "just following orders", that excuse didn't work at Nuremburg and it shouldn't work anywhere else. I refused an unlawful order when I was active duty and was threatened with an Article 15, when I replied "fine, let's take this to trial and especially pre trial discovery" it all went away.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

That could be true, but you are judging by one incident.

I was taught body language, NEVER LIES an to-date, that has always been the case. The other thing they teach is when pissed true intent/logic will ALWAYS be forthcoming. This is why during interviews you are ask the same question so many different ways. A person will tell you their true intent if you know where to poke an then are capable of listening.